So, sounds like they came in looking for revenge and got the wrong guy.
Wasn’t he wanted on a murder charge?
So, sounds like they came in looking for revenge and got the wrong guy.
Try to focus on this case.
You wrote he was unarmed. Wrong. He was armed, the gun was loaded, and he pointed the gun at officers. @Hawkman98 explained why the officers responded the way they did.
You wrote that there was no active crime situation. That, too, is obviously incorrect. The warrant was part of an active murder investigation.
And now you throw in the word sanctimonious. Wrong again. There are, for sure, a lot of people in this thread sitting on their morally superior high horse, demanding that people be fired and more. I am not one of those posters. fla
And one of the other problems with your post is that you really should have proof read it before hitting the "post reply" button. Commas in the wrong place are rather annoying. And your where they had w/o weapons statement needed editing as well.
Bottom line is the same... he wasn't pointing the gun at a cop. Cops had an adrenaline rush again and someone is dead because of it.So on the tenth time watching the video you notice that his finger is along side the barrel and not on the trigger. 😂. The tenth time, huh? And you are criticizing a police officer for making a decision in real time? Hmmm…. Interesting.
Not the guy the police killed, no.Wasn’t he wanted on a murder charge?
Not the guy the police killed, no.
@Hawkman98,
KARE 11 (NBC affiliate) is reporting that the person living in (leasing) the apartment had threatened police before and that is why the no knock warrant was asked for and granted.
So, sounds like they came in looking for revenge and got the wrong guy.
Listen condescending *******, ..,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,comma,,,,comma,,, comma, the word editor prompts me. For sure, for sure. So **** off with grammar policing. My keyboard is flaky, and I can never get through a post w/o having to retype. So, again you can **** off, and still I am explaining this to you.
You can't seem to get it through your think skull the post that when I make my initial point of police over was not related to this case. It was a general comment. You came back with the insistence it should relate to this case.
If there was relevance to this situation it was that multiple errors were made. It appears to have been a crime scene gone wrong. THEY KILLED THE WRONG PERSON. Guns pointed? You have come to your conclusion but analyses of videos confirmed this?
And Fran, sanctimonious was refering to your response to my "..and it the guy would have been white" quote.
It had nothing to do with others on a moral high horse,..or whatever you were driving at.
You are sounding pretty flakey here. Like a wing nut.
I will honestly answer you and say I don't know what I would do.LOL... Assuming you have a weapon for home defense, here's the question...if people burst into your home unannounced and they're all screaming "POLICE!! SEARCH WARRANT!!" are you going to automatically put your weapon down and raise your hands?
Same question for you @NorthernHawkeye . Could both of you attempt to answer on point.
It's not a perfect world as you would like to think. LE have to make split second decisions that can cost someone lese or our own lives. We can have all the training and experience in the world and that doesn't mean you're going to make the correct decision. If I go to 10 domestics none of them will be the same. How do you prepare for that? There is no handbook that we can follow that tells you how to handle certain situations. Every day is different and every call or traffic stop is different which causes inconsistencies. LE makes mistakes. Just like you do at your work. The only difference is our mistake can cost someone their life. Plus, our mistakes get picked apart like you are trying to do right now.This concept has frustrated me to a degree. Police are or at least should be, well compensated, highly trained, public servants. We should have high expectations for them in terms of conduct and outcomes, yet they seem to have the lowest expectations and receive the highest benefit of the doubt.
I realize the police are the good guys and the guys they are after are bad guys, so the sentiment makes sense. Yet it's not always that clear.
See a gun? Ok to shoot.
Thought you saw a gun, but it was really something else? Justified shooting.
Enemy didn't precisely follow commands? Shoot if you wish.
And on and on.
I realize policing such a heavily armed populace comes with its difficulties, so to some extent the shootings are inevitable. However, it would be nice if the focus was more on making sure everyone ended the shift alive as opposed to just the trained officer. I'm not asking an officer to place the same value on a suspect's life as they do their own, but perhaps some sort of incentive that would encourage outcomes where everyone lives as opposed to a dead suspect, or in this case non-suspect.
I wonder if the proliferation of bodycams have had any impact on officer shootings, the knowledge that their shooting could result in accountability/justice.
Typical DB at work. Ignore him. He's not looking to have a honest and open conversations. He is looking to tell you he is right and you are wrong. Regardless of not having any training or experience in what he's talking about.
Typical DB at work. Ignore him. He's not looking to have a honest and open conversations. He is looking to tell you he is right and you are wrong. Regardless of not having any training or experience in what he's talking about.
What's the matter @Franisdaman , cat got your tongue?In Texas December 2013, Henry Magee shot and killed a police officer during a pre-dawn, no-knock drug raid on his home. He was initially charged with capital murder, but he argued that he shot the police officer, who he thought was an intruder, to protect his pregnant girlfriend. Enough marijuana was found in his home to warrant a felony charge. In February 2014, a grand jury declined to indict for shooting the officer claiming "insufficient evidence", and charges were dropped. Essentially, they agreed it was self-defense.
One hundred miles away in Texas May 2014, Marvin Guy also killed a police officer during a pre-dawn, no-knock raid on his home. He also said he was protecting his girlfriend. No drugs were found. Guy, too, was charged with capital murder. Unlike Magee's grand jury, Guy's grand jury in September 2014 allowed the capital murder charge against him to stand. Marvin Guy has been in jail since 2014...nearly eight years now...and STILL HASN'T COME TO TRIAL.
Guy, who is black, faces the death penalty. Magee is white. He served 18 months for felony possession of marijuana and was released in 2017.
I think it's pretty clear that raising and pointing a gun at the police is also an error.
Adrenaline rush? Yeah, I can imagine they did. They are being asked to invade a house with no idea of what is to come. They are placed in danger in addition to the people in the house. You can boast detecting where the gun was pointed after watching that video 10 times and determining, likely by pausing the video, that the finger of the guy wasn’t on the trigger. Congrats on your detective work. In the real world, you don’t get that chance. And if a cop is wrong in that situation, he isn’t coming home. Don’t blame the cops for shooting a suspect that is holding a gun as they are in the house. You can blame the no knock warrants, but don’t blame the cops.Bottom line is the same... he wasn't pointing the gun at a cop. Cops had an adrenaline rush again and someone is dead because of it.
It's not a perfect world as you would like to think. LE have to make split second decisions that can cost someone lese or our own lives. We can have all the training and experience in the world and that doesn't mean you're going to make the correct decision. If I go to 10 domestics none of them will be the same. How do you prepare for that? There is no handbook that we can follow that tells you how to handle certain situations. Every day is different and every call or traffic stop is different which causes inconsistencies. LE makes mistakes. Just like you do at your work. The only difference is our mistake can cost someone their life. Plus, our mistakes get picked apart like you are trying to do right now.
Yes if we see someone with a gun and they put someone's life or ours at risk for seriously injury or death we have the right to shoot. Yes, sometimes LE thinks they see a gun and we shoot when it turns out it wasn't a gun. The alternative is if we wait in the pitch dark while someone is trying to hide it and it is a real gun we die. Trust me when I say no one wants to shoot someone. DO you think it's fun? Being sued civilly, losing your job, being the talking point in the media and the possibility of going to prison?
There is no LE officer before they have to make the most difficult decision of their life by shooting someone that is thinking about their body camera. That's a talking point for the media and uneducated. LE doesn't care about cameras and we expect everything we do to be recorded and broke down second by second.
I think it's pretty clear that raising and pointing a gun at the police is also an error.
This never happened and you continue to lie about it.
To be fair @Franisdaman never really has an honest conversation in these types of threads and certainly doesn't have any "training". He always takes a pro LE side. Which is why you probably side with him and call out @Pinehawk
It's not a perfect world as you would like to think. LE have to make split second decisions that can cost someone lese or our own lives. We can have all the training and experience in the world and that doesn't mean you're going to make the correct decision. If I go to 10 domestics none of them will be the same. How do you prepare for that? There is no handbook that we can follow that tells you how to handle certain situations. Every day is different and every call or traffic stop is different which causes inconsistencies. LE makes mistakes. Just like you do at your work. The only difference is our mistake can cost someone their life. Plus, our mistakes get picked apart like you are trying to do right now.
Yes if we see someone with a gun and they put someone's life or ours at risk for seriously injury or death we have the right to shoot. Yes, sometimes LE thinks they see a gun and we shoot when it turns out it wasn't a gun. The alternative is if we wait in the pitch dark while someone is trying to hide it and it is a real gun we die. Trust me when I say no one wants to shoot someone. DO you think it's fun? Being sued civilly, losing your job, being the talking point in the media and the possibility of going to prison?
There is no LE officer before they have to make the most difficult decision of their life by shooting someone that is thinking about their body camera. That's a talking point for the media and uneducated. LE doesn't care about cameras and we expect everything we do to be recorded and broke down second by second.
And @WDSMHAWK , why don't you educate yourself before you accuse me of lying about anything. I wrote, and I quote, that I think it's pretty clear that raising and pointing a gun at the police is also an error. And why did I write that? Not because I am lying, you moron, but because of what is being reported.
And this is what is being reported by KARE 11 TV, an NBC affiliate:
In a news conference Wednesday, Amelia Huffman, the interim Minneapolis police chief, said the SWAT team “loudly and repeatedly announced police search warrant before crossing the threshold into the apartment,” and Locke pointed a loaded gun “in the direction of officers,” which prompted one of the officers to shoot and kill him.
I never claimed to have any police training
And the video disputes the story the cops are putting out. So stop hurling insults like a child and actually watch the footage instead of parroting what the police chief says.
I know, Hawkman said Pinehawk shouldn't be commenting because he didn't have any training. Neither do you but your opinion always sides with the LE. I remember your lunatic thread when the Minneapolis shot smoke canisters at people standing on their porch. You argued for about 15 pages how it was the police's right to do that even though they changed the rules on the fly. You've been called out plenty of times for your shenanigans.
I dont think that's true no matter how many times it gets said. The gun barrel is absolutely facing the general direction of officers. He drew a gun on police. You're going to get shot doing that 10 out of 10 imo.And the video disputes the story the cops are putting out. So stop hurling insults like a child and actually watch the footage instead of parroting what the police chief says.
So, sounds like they came in looking for revenge and got the wrong guy.
I dont think that's true no matter how many times it gets said. The gun barrel is absolutely facing the general direction of officers. He drew a gun on police. You're going to get shot doing that 10 out of 10 imo.
Again, @Hawkman98 watched the video, just like I did; he said it was a justified shooting based on what he saw. So, to be clear, you are accusing of him of lying, too, and "parroting" what the police chief says. correct?
You freaking idiot. I had changed my opinion of you. Man, I was wrong. You are a fruitcake.In your rambling prior post, you asked why all the killings of unarmed blacks? Well, all I was trying to do is point out that in this case the person was clearly armed. And in this case, @Hawkman98 made it pretty clear the reason why Amir got shot.
And now this rambling post, where it was quite a challenge to get through.
You note that many errors were made; I think it's pretty clear that raising and pointing a gun at the police is also an error.
The crime scene, by the way, was in St Paul; that's where the murder occurred. The apartment where Amir was staying is in Minneapolis.
And at the end of your interesting post you call me a wing nut? Good grief.
Speed and Locke are cousins, according to the charging document, which also revealed that Speed was living in a different unit of the Bolero Flats Apartment Homes, at 1117 S. Marquette Av., in downtown Minneapolis and also had access to the apartment where police barged in on Feb. 2 and shot Locke as he held a gun.17-year-old charged in homicide that prompted no-knock warrant; Amir Locke's killing by Minneapolis police
The teen had access to the apartment that police raided and where an officer shot Locke, according to the charges.
By Liz Sawyer and Paul Walsh
Minneapolis Star Tribune
FEBRUARY 8, 2022 — 8:53AM
A 17-year-old boy has been charged with second-degree murder in connection with the Jan. 10 shooting death of a 38-year-old man — the underlying case behind a no-knock warrant and predawn Minneapolis police raid last week that killed 22-year-old Amir Locke.
Ramsey County prosecutors filed a juvenile petition charging Mekhi C. Speed, of Minneapolis, with two counts of second-degree murder, and are seeking to certify him to be tried as an adult.
Speed and Locke are cousins, according to the charging document, which also revealed that Speed was living in a different unit of the Bolero Flats Apartment Homes, at 1117 S. Marquette Av., in downtown Minneapolis and also had access to the apartment where police barged in on Feb. 2 and shot Locke as he held a gun.
Officers responded to a 911 call in St. Paul's Hamline-Midway neighborhood last month, where they found Otis R. Elder suffering from a gunshot wound in the street outside a recording studio on the 500 block of N. Prior Avenue. He died at Regions Hospital.
As their investigation progressed last week, St. Paul police filed standard applications for search warrant affidavits for three Bolero Flats apartments. But detectives were forced to resubmit the requests after Minneapolis police insisted on a no-knock entry.
MPD would not have agreed to execute the search in its jurisdiction otherwise, according to a law enforcement source who spoke on the condition of anonymity. St. Paul police rarely execute no-knock warrants because they are considered high-risk. The capital city police force has not served such a warrant since 2016, said department spokesman Steve Linders.
Locke, who was not a target of the investigation, was sleeping in the apartment of a relative when members of a Minneapolis police SWAT team burst in shortly before 7 a.m.
Footage from one of the officers' body cameras showed police quietly unlocking the apartment door with a key before barging inside, yelling "Search warrant!" as Locke lay under a blanket on the couch. An officer kicked the couch, Locke stirred, holding a firearm in his right hand. He was shot by officer Mark Hanneman within seconds.
Along with prosecutors detailing their case in connection with Elder's death, they also spelled out in the charging document the circumstances of the raid that ended with Locke's death:
In the seventh-floor apartment where Locke was shot were Speed's brother and the brother's girlfriend. Officers seized a jacket that police believe Speed was wearing on the night Elder was shot, the gun belonging to Locke and marijuana.
In the search of a second apartment, this one on the 14th floor and where Speed lived with his mother, officers seized a hat that police suspect Speed was wearing when he shot Elder and other items associated with two people believed to be with Speed soon after the Jan. 10 shooting.
The search of the third apartment, also on the 14th floor and associated with a friend of Speed's, turned up "a large amount of marijuana."
Officers from the Southeast Metro Task Force, the Ramsey County Violent Crime Enforcement Team and the St. Paul Special Investigations Unit eventually tracked the teenage suspect to Winona, Minn., where he was arrested around 3:45 p.m. Monday.
Elder leaves behind two young sons.
"That little boy stole my brother's life," his younger sister, Motika Elder, told the Star Tribune. "He never did nothing wrong to anyone. There was no reason for him to be killed."
A St. Paul investigator called the Elder family Tuesday morning to inform them of the arrest, she said, noting that Speed didn't appear to know Otis before the fatal encounter. A police spokesman declined to comment on that, citing an active investigation.
"O – as most of you knew him – absolutely loved these streets of St. Paul," his cousin, April Fleming, eulogized at his funeral last month. "It's gut-wrenching to know that these same streets took him away from us."
.............................................................................
Otis R. Elder--38 years old, father of 2 young boys (Murdered by Mekhi C. Speed, 17, cousin of Amir Locke )
Amir Locke, 22 years old
17-year-old charged in homicide that prompted no-knock warrant, Amir Locke's killing by Minneapolis police
The teen, Locke's cousin, had access to the apartment that police raided and where an officer shot Locke, according to the charges.www.startribune.com
And this is the only thing that matters. Do no-knock warrants even work? And if they do in extremely limited situations, does the risk to officers and the public offset that tiny benefit?Between 2010 and 2016, at least 94 people were killed during no-knock raids — 13 of them were police officers, Moran testified, highlighting how such warrants “carry a heightened degree of danger.”
Sarah Murtada, a third-year law student at St. Thomas who has studied no-knock warrants, noted that there are various cities and states throughout the country who have banned the practice. She said St. Paul hasn’t implemented restrictions but hasn’t executed such a warrant since 2016. (Minneapolis asked St. Paul to get the no-knock warrant that ended with Locke’s killing, sources told WCCO.)
Murtada pointed to the homicide clearance rates, or the percentage of homicides that are solved, in both Minneapolis and St. Paul: 37% and 91% respectively, she said. She added that neither city has had an officer killed by violence in 17 years.
“We’re looking at these two cities, one that uses no knock warrants one that doesn’t, and we’re not seeing any difference in officer’s safety and we’re also not seeing that no-knock warrants create a higher clearance rate or solve more crimes,” Murtada said.
Minneapolis Mayor Frey Admits To Being Misleading On 'No-Knock' Policy Changes
"Language became more casual, including my own, which did not reflect the necessary precision or nuance. And I own that," Mayor Jacob Frey said.minnesota.cbslocal.com
I really don't care what you think. The video is pretty clear, the cops did not give Locke a chance to comply and shot him. Keep defending poorly trained police officers.
You freaking idiot. I had changed my opinion of you. Man, I was wrong. You are a fruitcake.
OMG, the bipolar fruitcake who can't compose a post because he is tech challenged is back. We are all so lucky.
Speed and Locke are cousins, according to the charging document, which also revealed that Speed was living in a different unit of the Bolero Flats Apartment Homes, at 1117 S. Marquette Av., in downtown Minneapolis and also had access to the apartment where police barged in on Feb. 2 and shot Locke as he held a gun.
So the apartment raided by the police wasn't even the home of the murder suspect?
nobody cares what you think because it is clear you are biased and anti law enforcement.
Did they raid the apartment where he was living first? If not, that doesn't make sense.From the story:
St. Paul police filed standard applications for search warrant affidavits for 3 apartments. Detectives were forced to resubmit the requests after Minneapolis police insisted on a no knock entry.
Why, exactly, they needed to raid 3 apartments, I don't know. Speed, the suspect, and Locke were cousins and Speed's brother & his girlfriend lived in the unit where Locke was sleeping. As you can see, they also recovered a jacket in this unit that they think Speed was wearing the night of the murder.
Pure speculation, but beyond the evidence they gathered in all 3 units, they might have also requested a search of all 3 units because they were not sure at which apt he would be because Speed had access to his brother's apartment where Locke was staying
Pretty much yeah. I'm not surprised cops feel like this is a justified shooting as they will defend other officers until the evidence becomes overwhelming.
So keep tagging Hawkman to fight your battles because you are intellectually incapable of having a civilized discussion.
I like police. I just want the poorly trained officers held accountable, especially when their mistakes end up with innocent people being killed.
But continue having your hissy fit in this thread, it's very entertaining to watch you throw around insults and then try to take the high ground.