I honestly cringe at some of the replies you have here Lambertt, but you are probably spot on here. I think for the minimal points difference you go with the sophomore and RS freshman. Better for next year and nobody is beating Carl this year. I am honestly hoping ZG comes back next year at 197 anymore. He has improved enough this year to negate the risk/reward for AJ imo. I will always support whoever wrestles for the good guys, but that is just my opinion.
No Kueter again?
- Thread starter The Vak
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I get it. At 220-230 he's not going to be a 285 wrestling champion either. He's not Kyle Snyder.Great idea unless he doesn't want to be a DL. LOL! It's back to the Gabe discussion; to wit, what does the athlete want?
I guess it's up to football.
He needs to beef up for football too though, I realize he's a true freshman.
He needs another 20-30 lbs though to be an NFL linebacker with his height.
That would put him where he needs to be for wrestling too.
I’ve seen the cringe look on my friends faces a thousand times coach during conversations.
There is a lot of recency bias in that stance. Also, you just don’t save redshirts like an insurance policy expecting guys to get hurt. The redshirting of freshmen has worked a ton throughout time.
There are 3 significant reasons to consider it heavily with nearly all true freshman:
1.) Do you already have a seasoned veteran at the weight whose performance would be comparable, if not even better? In the case of Gabe, PK definitely fits the bill here so far. As far as Kueter goes, I am not sure he has distanced himself from Hill enough in the coaches eyes so far.
2.) Does starting them this year make a key difference in how the team finishes? They are fighting for 2nd at best no matter what. Even in the fight for 2nd I don’t see them scoring the kind of points where it would be worth using them this year, if the consensus is they will be much better next year after having the important amount of time in the room.
3.) This is really a 2 parter. What exactly are the wrestler’s goals along with health history?. If they don’t have health issues that puts them at much higher risk, kind of like Spencer had, don’t use possible injuries later on as a reason to burn it right away. With that addressed you then decide if their goals are much more likely to be achieved if they have that very valuable first year to just focus on training and getting better. In both cases, I absolutely believe Gabe and Ben are very much more likely to finish higher. In the case of Gabe, with Starocci most likely gone, I think he has a very realistic chance at pursuing the loftiest of goals(4xer).
Cut the crap. Don't try and jinx him. None of this 4X stuff. We over rate our wrestlers enough as it is.
It was a realistic idea to look ahead like that with Spencer. But I don't think Gabe is in that same category yet.
Let's see a little more track record before we start talking like that.
You silly wabbit.
I told everyone relax long ago and don't put ridiculous expectations on Ben. R16 would be a great year . Hill has been solid and could allocate for the Big 10. Let's see how Ben looks the rest of the way. I believe we see Ben wrestle today
Word was BK would be going today. He’s a hell of an athlete so it’ll be interesting to see how far his conditioning and touch has progressed in a few weeks. If he’s not ready this year he’s not ready. Asking a lot of a true frosh wrestling hwt, oh and after a full fball season.
I think Northwestern is just awful at heavyweight so not sure we get much from it.
That was unfortunate. Would’ve been a much better measuring stick.
Sorry, I wasn’t in any way trying to jinx him. I simply think he has the skill set and body type to get it done. By all accounts he is very bright and a very hard worker. With Starocci out of the way, whom I think ends up being a top 5 of all time talent(even if he was very hard to watch for most of his career) his chances increase exponentially.
He hasn’t wrestled since Midlands, I don’t believe was listed in the probables, and didn’t weigh in. So they would’ve known who the opponent was going to be and that was the same caliber as Purdue and NW.
All due respect Chiefy, but if he’s 220s and wrestling only part time, his “chance” should be on the open circuit. If he’s showing Snyderesque performance and ability there to be a legit option to wrestle a Snyderesque schedule in 2025 onward, fine by me. But in 2024 he has yet to earn that benefit of the doubt, while Hill has been working his ass off with excellent results. And Hill is realistically the only guy between the two who will be likely to earn a pre-allocation bid for the conference.
I have nothing aginst BK personally, but part-time wrestlers don’t exactly have much of a great track record. And even under the Snyder comparison, Snyder was still at least training/competing in a different style of wrestling, as opposed to an unrelated sport.
If and when BK gets up to 240+, then I think the convo is different. But 220 as a true frosh and coming in late? No way he should be getting benefit of the doubt when another guy at appropriate weight, conditioning, and results is there and ready. Don’t hold Hill back to experiment w/ BK under the current circumstances.
Keuter was gonna wrestle Friday but was sick, hes wrestling today n plan is to rs as of now
Couldn’t have been too sick, sitting on the bench with the rest of the guys.
Plus that’s just over the top. As good as Gabe is, he’s not THAT level of a prospect.
Sorry, but I firmly disagree. He absolutely is the type of wrestler and, more importantly, person that will do everything necessary to make it happen. On top of it all, he seems to have all the best people around him to support him.
It is very rare that I endorse someone right off the bat with that type of potential. In fact, Spencer is probably the only other onr that I thought could do it at this time of their first years.
The kid just seems to do everything right and, so far, seems to have his head right where it needs to be. I do agree that so many things can happen between now and then, but I like his chances as much as anyone I have seen at this point in their careers.
Go get em Gabe and prove me right! Even though proving me right should be the very last reason you do it!
Well, we did have Keuter wrestling but you might have missed it if you blinked.
Gabe is great but 4 timers are in another galaxy. A wrestler can be amazing and not win 3 titles let alone 4. He just doesn’t come with a pedigree where 4 titles is a realistic expectation. And never mind he’s not in a room that has regularly been producing NCAA champs.
Let Gabe be Gabe. Should be a fun run.
Kyle Snyder isn't the only guy to win the NCAA championship as a 230-pound heavyweight. Sure, another 20-30 pounds would be great, but the big problem is the short season. In the last 50 years, no D1 football player has had the success at wrestling that we're all looking for from Ben. As long as he's stuck with the football team until January, he's going to be handicapped in his wrestling career. There have been some great NFL players that were great NCAA wrestlers (Stephen Neal, Carlton Haselrig), but they didn't do both in college. Mark Sindlinger came the closest of anyone, but was only a two-time AA (4th and 6th) in wrestling.
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To be clear, we really anrent arguing about anything. I was talking about redshirting and if it maximized Gabe’s chances to reach his goals. I am sure being a 4x champ is one of them and probably the main one.
All I said after that was it gives him a realistic chance. I sure wasn’t saying he would or should be one. That also was heavily influenced by how basically all the top talent at 174 leaves after this season.
Like I said, if O’Toole stays at 165, 174 looks like he can come out swinging for the fences.
It's not really logical for Ben. It's almost certain he won't wrestle his senior year at all if he's preparing for the NFL combine (which is typically only a week or two before B1Gs). There are millions of dollars on the line for him at that point, and he's not going to take any risks. A RS year for him will just be wasted.
