***Official USMNT CONCACAF final thread***

[swagsurfer02]

Nah, I was in the middle of a meeting and got called on. So I start off by saying the best athletes in this country don’t play soccer. Someone else said they are athletic enough but don’t possess the skills. Then maybe we should get the folks who teach skills.

Also, I understand that not every kid likes football but I know when I played soccer hardly any of the best athletes actually played.

I am glad you are still alive.

I think we are in general agreement. That is, many of the ultra elite, quick-twitch athletes do go into football and basketball - often because that is where the scholarships and lucrative pro contracts are.

However, there are plenty of ultra elite, quick-twitch athletes in this country who DO play soccer - maybe because they are a bit too short for football or basketball, or just don't care for those other sports as much as they love soccer. When you are talking the USMT, you are talking about like 20 spots - there absolutely are enough super athletic American players on par, athletically, with their European, South American and other peers - for those two dozen or so openings.

Not to brag on my kid (OK, to brag on him a little) but he likely could have been a very competitive hurdler in high school track. But he thought track was "boring" and he has loved soccer since he was 5. So soccer is it, despite the fact he might of had an outside shot at a college scholarship in track and will definitely not be able to play anything higher than D3 in soccer simply because there are so few programs.

Go ahead and brag on him. Soccer was easily my first love when I was younger, then I started playing football in middle school. When high school rolled around I could play both as they were different seasons.

I was actually a better soccer player than a football player but didn’t like running nearly as much.

I’m just convinced that if football was banned and those guys had trained to play soccer that in a country of 300 million people we would have to find 20 dudes that could absolutely dominate. Think of it as a guy like Antonio Brown getting beat at the full back position, his recovery time has to be phenomenal.

Like I said, if it’s simply a technical skills problem then fire everybody and get the correct coaches in there.

 

[torbee]

Like I said, if it’s simply a technical skills problem then fire everybody and get the correct coaches in there.

It's the entire system, not just coaching. And it does appear to be changing for the better.
I hope to live long enough to see the USMT at least make a WC final!

Finally, my last note on young Master Torbee as a soccer player - he had a crazy growth spurt this spring and summer and went from about 5'8 to 6'1 heading into his senior year, so he's likely moving to striker. Should be interesting!

 

[swagsurfer02]

Like I said, if it’s simply a technical skills problem then fire everybody and get the correct coaches in there.

It's the entire system, not just coaching. And it does appear to be changing for the better.
I hope to live long enough to see the USMT at least make a WC final!

Finally, my last note on young Master Torbee as a soccer player - he had a crazy growth spurt this spring and summer and went from about 5'8 to 6'1 heading into his senior year, so he's likely moving to striker. Should be interesting!

Striker is a great position for larger athletic players. Getting inside the box when going for a corner kick or a teammate crossing the ball was my favorite. I got moved back to center mid my senior year so I could run the entire length of the field. It’s a great game.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Swag mentioned Antonio Brown and it brought back memories of watching Tavian Banks play soccer. I think he played at a pretty high level, but lacked the technical skills and of course, football won out. I remember a soccer coach telling me he could have made it pretty far in soccer.

 

[sober_teacher]

Go ahead and brag on him. Soccer was easily my first love when I was younger, then I started playing football in middle school. When high school rolled around I could play both as they were different seasons.

I was actually a better soccer player than a football player but didn’t like running nearly as much.

I’m just convinced that if football was banned and those guys had trained to play soccer that in a country of 300 million people we would have to find 20 dudes that could absolutely dominate. Think of it as a guy like Antonio Brown getting beat at the full back position, his recovery time has to be phenomenal.

Like I said, if it’s simply a technical skills problem then fire everybody and get the correct coaches in there.

It's a combination of all of it. Athleticism is important, and it's what often makes some of the African squads in particular intriguing in the World Cup. When they've been able to combine that athleticism with the technical skill and quality coaching...that's when countries like Ghana recently have made runs deeper into the tournament. The US has often had a similar problem in reverse, where we've usually had fundamentally sound teams at the World Cup with just enough athletes to be dangerous - think Howard at GK, Dempsey and Donovan in the midfield/forward positions. Bradley, for all his faults, has usually been a fundamentally sound player, but very limited athletically, and where he's gotten into trouble has been when he's been asked to do more.

Look at the USWNT. They were dominant at the early handful of Women's World Cup because they had by far the best athletes. Then they had a drought after 1999 because the rest of the world (some of them anyway), began to develop technically proficient teams that wouldn't be overwhelmed by the USA's superior athletes. In the last decade, the USWNT has placed renewed emphasis on player development and as a result have won an Olympic Gold and two World Cups since 2012.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

You get better by playing all of the time. Both in organized sessions but also lots of pick up games and unorganized play. Particularly at young ages. You learn basic skills by repeating them in unpressured environments once you master them there you can then challenge them in pressured environments. This is true of most sports and probably many other skilled activities.

It’s zero surprise to me France is World Cup Champion on the men’s side. Having been an exchange student there, the pick-up soccer and futsal culture around Paris was incredible. Very much like NYC or Philly is to basketball.

 

[biggreydogs]

I was at the game. Don't think it's an exaggeration that it was 90% Mexico fans. At the bar now drinking away the sorrows

Cheap flights?

 

[jaxhawk06]

Cheap flights?

Made the drive in from Iowa City

 

[biggreydogs]

Made the drive in from Iowa City

That’s a lot of Mexicans who live in IC

 

[jaxhawk06]

That’s a lot of Mexicans who live in IC

Well there are like 5 million Cactus restaurants in this town

 

[silasstarr]

As a casual soccer fan, that's what I noticed. The U.S. lacked the skill and technical abilities to pass the ball up the field. They basically hoped to cash in on some 50/50 bombs, usually from the GK.

They were trying to exploit the high pressure from Mexico. That being said, what the US has always lacked are the players who can breakdown a defense by beating their man and possibly another. Pulisic has the ability but it can’t just be him. They kept playing that long ball because they don’t have the kind of skill to beat the high pressure. The long ball can work but it’s certainly not of high probability. I stated earlier that Altidore had a good first half. What I was impressed with was his ability to either hold and maintain possession or his ability to win the ball and play forward, but it shouldn’t be a sustaining method of offensive football. It should be one of the tools though.

 

[silasstarr]

Swag mentioned Antonio Brown and it brought back memories of watching Tavian Banks play soccer. I think he played at a pretty high level, but lacked the technical skills and of course, football won out. I remember a soccer coach telling me he could have made it pretty far in soccer.

I played Tavian growing up. He was an amazing athlete but was also a bit soft. We legally tackled him hard to start matches and he would eventually stop coming into the box. I still wish Hayden didn’t restrict him from playing on the US development team though. I think at the very least, he could have been at Colby Jones’ level if he had dedicated to just soccer.

 

[bdcolt45er]

They were trying to exploit the high pressure from Mexico. That being said, what the US has always lacked are the players who can breakdown a defense by beating their man and possibly another. Pulisic has the ability but it can’t just be him. They kept playing that long ball because they don’t have the kind of skill to beat the high pressure. The long ball can work but it’s certainly not of high probability. I stated earlier that Altidore had a good first half. What I was impressed with was his ability to either hold and maintain possession or his ability to win the ball and play forward, but it shouldn’t be a sustaining method of offensive football. It should be one of the tools though.

The Mexicans made some adjustments in the 2nd half and the US wasn't able to respond. Most importantly they moved Pizzaro to the right side and had him play more in the middle of the pitch. In the 1st half the Mexicans mostly advanced the ball up the channels and the US was fine with this for the most part. It was a pretty even half overall with the US having the best chances.
Martino recognized that they were conceding the center of the field and basically added a man there and now the US was outnumbered in the middle. Which is even more problematic because Bradley has lost a few steps and McKennie isn't the best at snuffing out problems off the ball. IMO the response should have been to drop Morris and bring on Roldan, which he did. But he needed Roldan and Bradley to both play in the middle instead of out on the right. If they could even out numbers in the middle hopefully they could force Mexico into those wide areas and force crosses. Which opens up space when they get the ball back. Once they went down I think they should've dropped Ream and moved Arriolla to FB and deployed Boyd on the wing. Arriolla has played fullback. This gives you a lot of speed and counter attacking threat. The other big issue was that Altidore wasn't healthy enough to go the full 90 which calls into question dropping Sargent who is certainly more skilled than Zardes but perhaps not as strong. Berhalter's "adjustments" to me were a bit disappointing. They seemed like the same choices he's made in games they were winning so it doesn't seem like he adapted or had a strategy to counter when they had lost control of the game or when they were chasing the game and needed a goal.

 

[sober_teacher]

The Mexicans made some adjustments in the 2nd half and the US wasn't able to respond. Most importantly they moved Pizzaro to the right side and had him play more in the middle of the pitch. In the 1st half the Mexicans mostly advanced the ball up the channels and the US was fine with this for the most part. It was a pretty even half overall with the US having the best chances.
Martino recognized that they were conceding the center of the field and basically added a man there and now the US was outnumbered in the middle. Which is even more problematic because Bradley has lost a few steps and McKennie isn't the best at snuffing out problems off the ball. IMO the response should have been to drop Morris and bring on Roldan, which he did. But he needed Roldan and Bradley to both play in the middle instead of out on the right. If they could even out numbers in the middle hopefully they could force Mexico into those wide areas and force crosses. Which opens up space when they get the ball back. Once they went down I think they should've dropped Ream and moved Arriolla to FB and deployed Boyd on the wing. Arriolla has played fullback. This gives you a lot of speed and counter attacking threat. The other big issue was that Altidore wasn't healthy enough to go the full 90 which calls into question dropping Sargent who is certainly more skilled than Zardes but perhaps not as strong. Berhalter's "adjustments" to me were a bit disappointing. They seemed like the same choices he's made in games they were winning so it doesn't seem like he adapted or had a strategy to counter when they had lost control of the game or when they were chasing the game and needed a goal.

Given how well Boyd started off in the group stage, it remains a mystery to me why he didn't play in either the semi-finals or the final. Morris is a solid striker but he wasn't really doing much against Mexico. I've seen some speculation that Boyd might have picked up a slight injury that hasn't been reported.

One thing that I feel is the case for now, is that while we've got a solid young core of very promising players, at the moment we remain limited in tactical options and that hamstrings what adjustments Berhalter can make in the game.

For example, I didn't hate taking Ream off as it became obvious that Mexico was abusing him, but 30 year old Lovitz was the backup at LB? I won't be surprised if he never makes a US roster again. Ideally, either Cannon can make the switch to LB, at least for the national team (imagine him and Yedlin at the fullback spots - that's a lot of speed there), or someone on the other youth squads steps up soon.

LB is the one position on the squad that I don't see an obvious fix in the near future and it really hampers what they can do, because you have to roll protections to that side of the field.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

They had opportunities. I have a problem with the US keep on rolling out Altidore. These days he’s just an overweight oaf that pushes people around-great if you are playing basketball but not for soccer

I like him. He’s aged - but he’s better than the other options.

I disagree. He’s a lumbering statue that never had a lot of skill or touch

He is just a poor man''s Lukaku and there isn't much option's after him.

A few weeks after the final, Altidore announced his return to MLS play pretty nicely:

 

[irunlikeAcieEarl]

A few weeks after the final, Altidore announced his return to MLS play pretty nicely:

View embedded media

That was a nice flick on, still does not excuse his terrible 1v1 attempt against Mexico. I like Altidore, I just have a problem with his work rate at times and his execution. I know we don't have many options behind him.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I know we don't have many options behind him.

And whose fault is that?

 

[sober_teacher]

And whose fault is that?

Is it anyone’s in particular? I feel like in large part we just had a generation of players who didn’t develop as we hoped, or were injured at inopportune times.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Is it anyone’s in particular?

Well, normally when I ask these things, there is a particular answer......

 

[sober_teacher]

Well, normally when I ask these things, there is a particular answer......

I'm sure, I just hate when we engage in the blame game...as though there's one simple answer. There are a host of reasons as to why we don't have a striker waiting in the wings to replace Jozy. I cited lack of development as perhaps the biggest reason in my view (and of course there are multiple factors that contribute to that). What are yours? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I'm sure, I just hate when we engage in the blame game...as though there's one simple answer. There are a host of reasons as to why we don't have a striker waiting in the wings to replace Jozy. I cited lack of development as perhaps the biggest reason in my view (and of course there are multiple factors that contribute to that). What are yours? I'm genuinely curious.

The parents, of course.......