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Penn State Dual

USPMAN said:
Over performed? How can you so that? Many people have said psu looked flat against Ohio st, maybe they did….but still won that dual 28-9…..pretty good for wrestling flat. Psu starters have lost a combined 6 matches all year…..Nagao 3, Kasak 1(to teammate Bartlett) and Truax 2. Hard to call that an over performance……clearly their just that dominant
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I actually mean historically, their dominance is at another level and things always go their way. Remember, I'm a PSU fan and alum. And one thing I know is when things happen one way, a lot, expect more of that. The point is They dominated OSU and that could've easily been 32-3 if Truax majored Roguskie which seemed possible. Then Davis was gifted that win so if we woggle things around PSU wins by what29-6? It's still pretty dominant.

So when I guess I'm not going to say PSU wins them all because that's possible but pretty unlikely.
 
MSU158 said:
Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that they had the crazy gambling witch hunt remove 4 starters from the lineup? Are you telling me they aren't the clear #2 if they had Cass and Brands in the lineup? Even then, you are missing the fact that EVERY stat possible shows they are the CLEAR #2 program behind PSU and clearly ahead of everyone else during Brands tenure.

Just since 2020, they were the clear #1 in 2020(Covid year), won it in 2021, took 3rd in 2022(decimated by injuries) and 2nd in 2023.

With all that said, instead of narrow minded complaining, what team is going to sustain success above Iowa other than PSU? The only team that has done it for any matter of time is tOSU and they have been seriously inconsisent since losing Rosselli, Dlagnev and Snyder.

Even when it comes to recruiting, who, other than PSU, is outrecruiting Iowa on a consistent basis? I am sorry, but there is NO COGENT argument that puts anyone but PSU ahead of Iowa and I would argue that there also isn't one that puts any other team even consistently close to Iowa....
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yes..... 100% telling you they are not a clear Number 2. Iowa doesn't even beat Mich with those two.

Cornell, tOSU, OSU, and even Mich are recruting as good or better than Iowa. Pull your head out of your ass. Being #2 comes easy for MSU fans I am sure but IOWA = Wrestling and I hope to god the fans never accept being mediocre like MSU fans have... (except in football, we have accepted that years ago) .

I have followed wrestling close enough to see the way the tides are Changing and our coaching staff is not Changing with them..The program is bigger than the coach and if he is unwilling to make changes that will put us up with PSU than he needs to be replaced...
 
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Hawkgma said:
yes..... 100% telling you they are not a clear Number 2. Iowa doesn't even beat Mich with those two.

Cornell, tOSU, OSU, and even Mich are recruting as good or better than Iowa. Pull your head out of your ass. Being #2 comes easy for MSU fans I am sure but IOWA = Wrestling and I hope to god the fans never accept being mediocre like MSU fans have... (except in football, we have accepted that years ago) .

I have followed wrestling close enough to see the way the tides are Changing and our coaching staff is not Changing with them..The program is bigger than the coach and if he is unwilling to make changes that will put us up with PSU than he needs to be replaced...
Click to expand...
When change happens it's often quite obvious to some but not all but eventually everyone sees it. It's too late to right the ship at that time. Supposedly When Cael was hired Brands addressed donors and said it was a pretty big deal. I'll try to find the quote. The article is behind a paywall so I won't link it but he did say that news was coming out that would shake up the sport.

My only question is why didn't he start to implement similar changes then to the program?
 
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bourbon n blues said:
When change happens it's often quite obvious to some but not all but eventually everyone sees it. It's too late to right the ship at that time. Supposedly When Cael was hired Brands addressed donors and said it was a pretty big deal. I'll try to find the quote. The article is behind a paywall so I won't link it but he did say that news was coming out that would shake up the sport.

My only question is why didn't he start to implement similar changes then to the program?
Click to expand...
Because he has a lot of Pride. It's hard to admit what you are doing isn't the best. Good coaches can fight change as stay close to the top but eventually fall or have to change... Great coaches see the change coming and adapt.... THE best coach started the change!!!
 
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Nashville_Hawkeye said:
This team needs to show the wrestling world that they give a shit. I’m thinking someone on this team is going to light a fire and I think the fire will spread. I’m saying the Hawks will go 4-6. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Cael rests a couple of his hammers just because he can.
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Cael won't be resting anyone. If Brands had the chance to step on a throat of the perceived number 1 rival, wouldn't he do it with malicious intent? Wouldn't we as fans expect it? Not a chance would anyone miss this opportunity.
 
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@MSU158 Im curious, if you had the power and money to do anything you wanted with our coaching staff, fire/hire anyone besides anyone currently on the PSU staff what would you do?
 
Hawkgma said:
yes..... 100% telling you they are not a clear Number 2. Iowa doesn't even beat Mich with those two.

Cornell, tOSU, OSU, and even Mich are recruting as good or better than Iowa. Pull your head out of your ass. Being #2 comes easy for MSU fans I am sure but IOWA = Wrestling and I hope to god the fans never accept being mediocre like MSU fans have... (except in football, we have accepted that years ago) .

I have followed wrestling close enough to see the way the tides are Changing and our coaching staff is not Changing with them..The program is bigger than the coach and if he is unwilling to make changes that will put us up with PSU than he needs to be replaced...
Click to expand...
You are 100% incorrect in every aspect.

1.) I have posted the stats many times that clearly show Iowa's performance is considerably ahead of every other program but PSU.

2.) Get your head out of your own ass in regards to the UofM dual. They were clearly coming off a significant illness and the dual was decided by roughly 3 seconds of riding time and their number 1 wrestler being so sick he got majored. Mind you, other than being pinned 2x's in his career, that was the 1st time he has ever lost by 8 or more. If you came away from that dual thinking UofM was a clearly better NCAA Tournament team, you don't know wrestling very well. Still Cass beats Davison and Brands gives many more options between 165-184,

3,) As far as MSU goes, you are welcome to discuss it with me all you want. The simple truth is all the Athletic Department has cared about for ANY of their fringe teams the last 20 years is graduate as many as possible on time and stay out of trouble. Add in the Nasser debacle and that only made that more clear. Actually, what Roger and Chris are doing at MSU is about the absolute best that can be done considering what they have to work with.

4.) I am happy you have "followed wrestling close enough", but the simple truth is they ARE the 2nd best staff there is and recruiting is the MAJOR difference that separates PSU, not just from Iowa, but from EVERYONE. There isn't a coach or staff out there that changes that for as long as Cael and Casey stay together...
 
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tiltman said:
@MSU158 Im curious, if you had the power and money to do anything you wanted with our coaching staff, fire/hire anyone besides anyone currently on the PSU staff what would you do?
Click to expand...
Honestly, I would want to canvas the pool if you will. I would want to find out how willing guys like DT, Dake, Burroughs or even an Askren would be to take the job and what would it take to get them 100% committed for a significant amount of time. Because, every indication suggests that NONE of them are going to Iowa anytime soon for any reasonable offer and I am not convinced they would stay for very long even if they did.

So, that then SIGNIFICANTLY decreases the pool to choose from that would be the true upgrade Iowa would need to consider shaking up the staff. Who would that leave? Nolf, maybe? J'Den Cox?

The sad part is I really don't see the magical piece out there that would make an easy fix. If I could, I would absolutely move Terry and Telford to the HWC. By all accounts, Morningstar is still a very important part. I would then add any combination of the two above if I had my 100% committed wish.

But, again, I am less than convinced that any of them are truly available and I really don't see anyone else out there that fits...
 
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Kyle Dake: https://surprisesports.com/athletes-biography/kyle-dake-net-worth/

In 2023, American freestyle wrestler Kyle Dake’s estimated net worth is $24 million. A four-time World Championship winner and an Olympics bronze medalist, Dake has accumulated a massive fortune from his wrestling career. Moreover, Dake earns a massive chunk from endorsements and brand promotions. He is endorsed by Pure and Clean Sports, Titan Mercury Wrestling Club, White Oak Pastures, and Earth Foam.

David Taylor: https://surprisesports.com/athletes-biography/david-taylor-net-worth/

In 2023, American wrestler David Taylor’s estimated net worth is $5 million. He is the 2020 Olympics Gold medalist at 86 kilos. The Magic Man earns a massive chunk from endorsements and brand promotions. He has a paid partnership with Adidas. Adidas and Taylor launched a line of wrestling apparel, shoes, and clothing, named M2.
Moreover, Taylor helps his wife to run a heath-juice business K2 Roots.

Jordan Burroughs: https://surprisesports.com/athletes-biography/jordan-burroughs-net-worth/

As of 2024, Jordan Burroughs’ net worth is around $10 million.

Jordan Burroughs, an American freestyle wrestler, has earned significant prize money throughout his career. His notable earnings include $250,000 for winning the World Championships in 2011. He also received $250,000 for winning a gold medal in freestyle wrestling at the 2012 Olympic Games. In addition, he received another $250,000 for his performance at the 2016 Olympic Games. As of 2023, he has amassed $595,000 in bonuses from the Living the Dream Medal Fund. Jordan Burroughs has attracted several high-profile endorsements throughout his career thanks to his exceptional wrestling skills and charismatic personality. Companies such as Adidas, RUDIS, and Body Armor have recognized his marketability and have signed endorsement deals with him.


Looks like we would have to pony up some big money to get any of these guys. Maybe they really do want to coach but it’s not like any of them are going to be wow’ed by a coaches salary.
 
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sdvike said:
Looks good. Id put Cali at 50/50 though. And Arnold a bit higher also because he is money under pressure in big matches. Schreiver could increase his odds if he doesnt give up that first takedown or have to take down at all.
Click to expand...
How do you say someone is money in big matches when they have wrestled a handful of matches and maybe one big match?
 
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tiltman said:
@MSU158 Im curious, if you had the power and money to do anything you wanted with our coaching staff, fire/hire anyone besides anyone currently on the PSU staff what would you do?
Click to expand...
DT. Starts there. Ends there.

MSU158 said:
You are 100% incorrect in every aspect.

1.) I have posted the stats many times that clearly show Iowa's performance is considerably ahead of every other program but PSU.

2.) Get your head out of your own ass in regards to the UofM dual. They were clearly coming off a significant illness and the dual was decided by roughly 3 seconds of riding time and their number 1 wrestler being so sick he got majored. Mind you, other than being pinned 2x's in his career, that was the 1st time he has ever lost by 8 or more. If you came away from that dual thinking UofM was a clearly better NCAA Tournament team, you don't know wrestling very well. Still Cass beats Davison and Brands gives many more options between 165-184,

3,) As far as MSU goes, you are welcome to discuss it with me all you want. The simple truth is all the Athletic Department has cared about for ANY of their fringe teams the last 20 years is graduate as many as possible on time and stay out of trouble. Add in the Nasser debacle and that only made that more clear. Actually, what Roger and Chris are doing at MSU is about the absolute best that can be done considering what they have to work with.

4.) I am happy you have "followed wrestling close enough", but the simple truth is they ARE the 2nd best staff there is and recruiting is the MAJOR difference that separates PSU, not just from Iowa, but from EVERYONE. There isn't a coach or staff out there that changes that for as long as Cael and Casey stay together...
Click to expand...

Being a "clear" #2 isn't the standard, and isn't the expectation at Iowa. You don't get complacent with that. Period.
 
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jmadden1998 said:
Kyle Dake: https://surprisesports.com/athletes-biography/kyle-dake-net-worth/

In 2023, American freestyle wrestler Kyle Dake’s estimated net worth is $24 million. A four-time World Championship winner and an Olympics bronze medalist, Dake has accumulated a massive fortune from his wrestling career. Moreover, Dake earns a massive chunk from endorsements and brand promotions. He is endorsed by Pure and Clean Sports, Titan Mercury Wrestling Club, White Oak Pastures, and Earth Foam.

David Taylor: https://surprisesports.com/athletes-biography/david-taylor-net-worth/

In 2023, American wrestler David Taylor’s estimated net worth is $5 million. He is the 2020 Olympics Gold medalist at 86 kilos. The Magic Man earns a massive chunk from endorsements and brand promotions. He has a paid partnership with Adidas. Adidas and Taylor launched a line of wrestling apparel, shoes, and clothing, named M2.
Moreover, Taylor helps his wife to run a heath-juice business K2 Roots.

Jordan Burroughs: https://surprisesports.com/athletes-biography/jordan-burroughs-net-worth/

As of 2024, Jordan Burroughs’ net worth is around $10 million.

Jordan Burroughs, an American freestyle wrestler, has earned significant prize money throughout his career. His notable earnings include $250,000 for winning the World Championships in 2011. He also received $250,000 for winning a gold medal in freestyle wrestling at the 2012 Olympic Games. In addition, he received another $250,000 for his performance at the 2016 Olympic Games. As of 2023, he has amassed $595,000 in bonuses from the Living the Dream Medal Fund. Jordan Burroughs has attracted several high-profile endorsements throughout his career thanks to his exceptional wrestling skills and charismatic personality. Companies such as Adidas, RUDIS, and Body Armor have recognized his marketability and have signed endorsement deals with him.


Looks like we would have to pony up some big money to get any of these guys. Maybe they really do want to coach but it’s not like any of them are going to be wow’ed by a coaches salary.
Click to expand...

these numbers are 100% wrong. These guys ain't worth that much.

It's certainly not pennies, and they live far better than any previous era wrestler - but nope. not close.
 
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Dake apparently has a very good business mind from what I have heard, nevermind the networking he has done through the Cornell alumni. He has made very good business decisions for his family, plus he has done well as part of Spartan combat.
 
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jmadden1998 said:
Kyle Dake: https://surprisesports.com/athletes-biography/kyle-dake-net-worth/

In 2023, American freestyle wrestler Kyle Dake’s estimated net worth is $24 million. A four-time World Championship winner and an Olympics bronze medalist, Dake has accumulated a massive fortune from his wrestling career. Moreover, Dake earns a massive chunk from endorsements and brand promotions. He is endorsed by Pure and Clean Sports, Titan Mercury Wrestling Club, White Oak Pastures, and Earth Foam.

David Taylor: https://surprisesports.com/athletes-biography/david-taylor-net-worth/

In 2023, American wrestler David Taylor’s estimated net worth is $5 million. He is the 2020 Olympics Gold medalist at 86 kilos. The Magic Man earns a massive chunk from endorsements and brand promotions. He has a paid partnership with Adidas. Adidas and Taylor launched a line of wrestling apparel, shoes, and clothing, named M2.
Moreover, Taylor helps his wife to run a heath-juice business K2 Roots.

Jordan Burroughs: https://surprisesports.com/athletes-biography/jordan-burroughs-net-worth/

As of 2024, Jordan Burroughs’ net worth is around $10 million.

Jordan Burroughs, an American freestyle wrestler, has earned significant prize money throughout his career. His notable earnings include $250,000 for winning the World Championships in 2011. He also received $250,000 for winning a gold medal in freestyle wrestling at the 2012 Olympic Games. In addition, he received another $250,000 for his performance at the 2016 Olympic Games. As of 2023, he has amassed $595,000 in bonuses from the Living the Dream Medal Fund. Jordan Burroughs has attracted several high-profile endorsements throughout his career thanks to his exceptional wrestling skills and charismatic personality. Companies such as Adidas, RUDIS, and Body Armor have recognized his marketability and have signed endorsement deals with him.


Looks like we would have to pony up some big money to get any of these guys. Maybe they really do want to coach but it’s not like any of them are going to be wow’ed by a coaches salary.
Click to expand...
If these guys want to coach, Iowa is still an elite destination. I know some of you are saying you want no part of DT because he came from PSU, but if DT is ever serious about wanting to coach D1 (and Cael told him he was staying for another 15 years so that PSU is not a possibility), he would take the Iowa job in a nanosecond. Same with Dake or Burroughs or Askren or anyone else. The real question is whether they really want to be a coach. Offering a competitive salary is good enough. $400k or whatever is plenty for anyone to live on to be in the best situation they can be to succeed.
 
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Random4598375 said:
If these guys want to coach, Iowa is still an elite destination. I know some of you are saying you want no part of DT because he came from PSU, but if DT is ever serious about wanting to coach D1 (and Cael told him he was staying for another 15 years so that PSU is not a possibility), he would take the Iowa job in a nanosecond. Same with Dake or Burroughs or Askren or anyone else. The real question is whether they really want to be a coach. Offering a competitive salary is good enough. $400k or whatever is plenty for anyone to live on to be in the best situation they can be to succeed.
Click to expand...
Nobody with a bit of intelligence is saying they would not take DT because he came from Penn State. For F sake, Gable came to Iowa from Iowa State. It doesn't get a whole lot lower than that!
 
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ChiPackHawk said:
Nobody with a bit of intelligence is saying they would not take DT because he came from Penn State. For F sake, Gable came to Iowa from Iowa State. It doesn't get a whole lot lower than that!
Click to expand...
I've seen multiple people on here say that (and not just Ironturd).
 
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vhsalum said:
DT. Starts there. Ends there.



Being a "clear" #2 isn't the standard, and isn't the expectation at Iowa. You don't get complacent with that. Period.
Click to expand...
I get that it isn't the standard. Nor, have I EVER said it should be. My argument is simply against getting rid of Brands to chase a team that I simply don't believe is catchable anytime soon. I think this is especially true when I just don't see ANYONE out there that is remotely proven nor have they shown nearly the willingness to take over BY FAR the most demanding program to try to chase PSU at its incredibly high apex...
 
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Random4598375 said:
If these guys want to coach, Iowa is still an elite destination. I know some of you are saying you want no part of DT because he came from PSU, but if DT is ever serious about wanting to coach D1 (and Cael told him he was staying for another 15 years so that PSU is not a possibility), he would take the Iowa job in a nanosecond. Same with Dake or Burroughs or Askren or anyone else. The real question is whether they really want to be a coach. Offering a competitive salary is good enough. $400k or whatever is plenty for anyone to live on to be in the best situation they can be to succeed.
Click to expand...
I simply have 2 issues with DT. Essentially zero coaching experience at the DI level and, more importantly, the simple fact that he would 100% pull a Brands or Sanderson and leave Iowa immediately if the PSU job opened up.
To make such a major, risky change in removing someone as inarguably successful as Brands, I would not only be certain that Taylor is a legit DI coach, he is 100% committed to be a DI Coach and, again, most importantly, 100% committed to Iowa for a SIGNIFICANT amount of time.

To me, it would take some type of contract where Iowa could obviously terminate him if the results don't match expectations but he can't leave on his own to coach elsewhere for at least a 5 year period.....Sadly, I see no way in hell he would sign something like that....
 
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MSU158 said:
I simply have 2 issues with DT. Essentially zero coaching experience at the DI level and, more importantly, the simple fact that he would 100% pull a Brands or Sanderson and leave Iowa immediately if the PSU job opened up.
To make such a major, risky change in removing someone as inarguably successful as Brands, I would not only be certain that Taylor is a legit DI coach, he is 100% committed to be a DI Coach and, again, most importantly, 100% committed to Iowa for a SIGNIFICANT amount of time.

To me, it would take some type of contract where Iowa could obviously terminate him if the results don't match expectations but he can't leave on his own to coach elsewhere for at least a 5 year period.....Sadly, I see no way in hell he would sign something like that....
Click to expand...
You wouldn't need any of that in his contract. Cael isn't going anywhere for another 10-20 years.

The zero coaching experience is a moot point. It's getting kids to wrestle for you (and his name alone will do that) and getting them to win ships. Which, I also think he would be able to do. He'd certainly understand how to actually train guys to win.
 
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vhsalum said:
You wouldn't need any of that in his contract. Cael isn't going anywhere for another 10-20 years.

The zero coaching experience is a moot point. It's getting kids to wrestle for you (and his name alone will do that) and getting them to win ships. Which, I also think he would be able to do. He'd certainly understand how to actually train guys to win.
Click to expand...
I don't know, man. It is a very grueling and demanding job. By all accounts his intensity hasn't destroyed his body like it did to Gable, But, Dan was 48 when he walked away. Cael is coming up on 45 years old and I am certain he is rapidly coming up to the point where he no longer needs the money.

I simply hate taking things for granted. Cael may very well coach that long, but bringing DT in to only have him leave a couple years later could actually do permanent damage and I have always been taught to look at the worst possible negatives before making a very big decision...
 
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MSU158 said:
I simply have 2 issues with DT. Essentially zero coaching experience at the DI level and, more importantly, the simple fact that he would 100% pull a Brands or Sanderson and leave Iowa immediately if the PSU job opened up.
To make such a major, risky change in removing someone as inarguably successful as Brands, I would not only be certain that Taylor is a legit DI coach, he is 100% committed to be a DI Coach and, again, most importantly, 100% committed to Iowa for a SIGNIFICANT amount of time.

To me, it would take some type of contract where Iowa could obviously terminate him if the results don't match expectations but he can't leave on his own to coach elsewhere for at least a 5 year period.....Sadly, I see no way in hell he would sign something like that....
Click to expand...
Why do you think someone like DT would automatically leave if he had success at Iowa? Maybe if the job opened in the first few years but if there was any sustained success - then he made his own legacy. Plus, as the saying goes, you want to replace the person who replaced the legend.
 
Grip220 said:
Screw DT and the horse he road in on. He would not be on any list of mine.
Tom needs to be the head coach of IOWA wrestling, I think a bit of restructuring of the rest of the staff and the HWC is whats needed. Let me also say I'm not basing this off of this season.
Click to expand...
Completely agree with Grip on this.
Anyone from Iowa who wants Nit leadership talent should move there.
 
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MSU158 said:
I don't know, man. It is a very grueling and demanding job. By all accounts his intensity hasn't destroyed his body like it did to Gable, But, Dan was 48 when he walked away. Cael is coming up on 45 years old and I am certain he is rapidly coming up to the point where he no longer needs the money.

I simply hate taking things for granted. Cael may very well coach that long, but bringing DT in to only have him leave a couple years later could actually do permanent damage and I have always been taught to look at the worst possible negatives before making a very big decision...
Click to expand...
Is Jordan Burroughs a lock for the Nebraska job when he is done competing? I have always thought Snyder would get it, but they can't let Jordan go if Manning steps down, can they? And do we try and get Jordan then?
 
CatCoach said:
Is Jordan Burroughs a lock for the Nebraska job when he is done competing? I have always thought Snyder would get it, but they can't let Jordan go if Manning steps down, can they? And do we try and get Jordan then?
Click to expand...
Jordan is considerably different as he has been pretty clear that he DOES NOT want to coach. I would ONLY bring him in if he actually showed interest in being an assistant and see how that works out. If he seemed to really get into it, only then would I even begin to consider him as a Head Coach...
 
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ChiPackHawk said:
Why do you think someone like DT would automatically leave if he had success at Iowa? Maybe if the job opened in the first few years but if there was any sustained success - then he made his own legacy. Plus, as the saying goes, you want to replace the person who replaced the legend.
Click to expand...
The same reason Brands did. Because he bleeds his school colors and I don't think that would ever go away for either of them...
 
jmadden1998 said:
In 2023, American freestyle wrestler Kyle Dake’s estimated net worth is $24 million.

In 2023, American wrestler David Taylor’s estimated net worth is $5 million.

As of 2024, Jordan Burroughs’ net worth is around $10 million.
Click to expand...

No way Dake and Taylor are millionaires.

If any of the three would it would be JB. With that said, zero chance he's worth 10m.
 
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MSU158 said:
I simply have 2 issues with DT. Essentially zero coaching experience at the DI level and,
Click to expand...

He was apart of an amazing HS team.

He was apart of an amazing college team.

He was apart of an amazing Olympic team.

This ain't his first rodeo.

The guy can not only flat out wrestle, but he can teach technique better than most.

I'm not saying he just jump to the head of the line and start being a head coach from day one, but I would trust this guy to run a team 100%.
 
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