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Per CNN Regional Jet crashes in Potomac River

Once the helo said they had the aircraft in sight and maintaining visual separation ATC had zero responsibility for traffic separation at that point. Not trying to speculate, but I assume the helicopter had the aircraft behind in sight and never saw the one they should have.

Yes atc should’ve seen it coming after the fact but with the way these approaches and helicopter corridors are set up There’s so little time for mistakes.

This is why I'm putting it more on the helo pilot and less on ATC. ATC asked for visual confirmation of the CRJ, helo pilot confirmed. I am not with the NTSB though and am just an armchair investigator with minimal knowledge of the actual facts. Anyone taking my thoughts on the matter should take that into account.
 
Trump posts like he’s just some idiot on a message board. He’s the freakin’ POTUS for fvcksakes! Have just a little self control and self respect, dude.
He's an 80 year old man baby, and he is who we thought he was. The only thing the POTUS should have said last night was Ts and Ps to the families, and I will ensure every resource of the federal government is immediately made available to the rescuers and investigators.
But, he stuck himself in the middle of things because he has to be in the middle of everything. And, because he is infallible, his press secretary can't try and spin a narrative today.
 
Once the helo said they had the aircraft in sight and maintaining visual separation ATC had zero responsibility for traffic separation at that point. Not trying to speculate, but I assume the helicopter had the aircraft behind in sight and never saw the one they should have.

Yes atc should’ve seen it coming after the fact but with the way these approaches and helicopter corridors are set up There’s so little time for mistakes.
We will know soon but I don't think it is suppose to work like that. I know you have far more expertise than me, but letting these two get so close to each other, at night, with a plane landing so both at low altitude, should not be a situation where you assume the helicopter sees the right plane and can avoid it IMHO. Keeping that landing path free of aircraft is a must, not a "hey make sure you see that plane landing ok. Don't hit it"
 
yeah, ordinarily if they're coming in on the main runway 19, i wouldn't have thought much of it because it's a pretty straight shot from below the wilson bridge. but 33 is a weird approach that basically crosses the river from Md A little more than coming up it. If the helo corridor on the md side is more of a parallel to the river, almost a certainty the two intersect, which might be...something to be thinking about.
I remember flying in there 25 years ago, and the approach was like being in on a grand prix track, sharp turn left, sharp turn right, back left, because of all the things they had to avoid passing over.
 
Well now I'm scared as fook to fly into SNA. Thanks.

Departures out of SNA are the best. I imagine the pilots up front pulling this maneuver every time.

_PC2Ds.gif
 
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What goes into a pilot route assignment? Beyond certification for a particular plane.
At least for the pilot I know it's a bidding system. The giant computers spit out blocks of flights over a multi day span. Pilots have to attain a certain minimum number of hours per month to maintain their status, but can go higher to make more money. An older pilot in Minneapolis may bid up a trip to Tokyo and back, and that's enough to keep their benefits. Other pilots will have to cobble together 3-5 trips per month, with a set number of days off. So, you are not bidding on each flight, you are bidding on your type of aircraft and how it is utilized by the airline out and back from your duty station. Certain pilots like certain runs. If you live close to your duty station you might want an early am departure for your first flight. If you have to travel to your station you might want an afternoon flight out, and a redeye on the return leg so you can then catch a flight to home.
@Aardvark86 since you expressed curiosity.
 
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Did I hear that correct, deadliest plane crash in the US since 1982 ?

and first major commercial crash since 2009

Can't be. There have been a lot more since then. Deadliest in the Potomac since then though.

Correct on the 2009 stat though. Colgan Air over Buffalo (icing).
 
We will know soon but I don't think it is suppose to work like that. I know you have far more expertise than me, but letting these two get so close to each other, at night, with a plane landing so both at low altitude, should not be a situation where you assume the helicopter sees the right plane and can avoid it IMHO. Keeping that landing path free of aircraft is a must, not a "hey make sure you see that plane landing ok. Don't hit it"
Yes it is normal. Happens everyday. The helicopters have a narrow window to traverse that area. ATC spaces them to avoid this. Once the helicopter said they could provide their own separation (probably by identifying the wrong airplane) that’s when the issue happened. ATC somehow missed the warnings after the fact. That’s what I’m interested in seeing, why. But this is daily standard ops there. It’s just stupidly designed, over congested airspace.
 
Departures out of SNA are the best. I imagine the pilots up front pulling this maneuver every time.

_PC2Ds.gif
I was in OC when Kobe took his last run on the helo. You could have cut the air that day, I can't believe he pushed the pilot to fly. All for a kid's basketball tournament. Just dumb.
 
He's an 80 year old man baby, and he is who we thought he was. The only thing the POTUS should have said last night was Ts and Ps to the families, and I will ensure every resource of the federal government is immediately made available to the rescuers and investigators.
But, he stuck himself in the middle of things because he has to be in the middle of everything. And, because he is infallible, his press secretary can't try and spin a narrative today.
I thought y,all hated those?
 
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@BlIIlken2 you can verify this, right?

Aviation maps require helos to fly no higher than 200’ AGL, on a path due south, following the east bank of the Potomac River, in or near the south approach to Reagan Airport.

Once south, and past the Wilson Bridge, helos may ascend to no more than 300’ AGL.

The collision is reported to have taken place at 350’ - 400’ AGL.

Initial conclusion drawn, would be that the helo was out of it’s permitted altitude parameters.
 
SNA is my favorite airport, no fooking hassles. Fly into there, grab a shuttle and I'm at the rental on the beach within 30 minutes. It's a beautiful thing!
Favorite of mine also but just always get nervous with all the other non commercial traffic there.
 
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I remember flying in there 25 years ago, and the approach was like being in on a grand prix track, sharp turn left, sharp turn right, back left, because of all the things they had to avoid passing over.
That’s from the north. Always reminds me of agent Johnson’s in die hard.
 
@BlIIlken2 you can verify this, right?

Aviation maps require helos to fly no higher than 200’ AGL, on a path due south, following the east bank of the Potomac River, in or near the south approach to Reagan Airport.

Once south, and past the Wilson Bridge, helos may ascend to no more than 300’ AGL.

The collision is reported to have taken place at 350’ - 400’ AGL.

Initial conclusion drawn, would be that the helo was out of it’s permitted altitude parameters.
Looks correct to me. Follow route 1 on this. If it shows 200 with a line above it that means follow the route 200 feet and below. Looks like following the Potomac you can be exactly at 1500 ft, no lower or higher. Indicated by the lines above and below (bracketed altitude). Line indicates floor or ceiling, or both.

 
Looks correct to me. Follow route 1 on this. If it shows 200 with a line above it that means follow the route 200 feet and below. Looks like following the Potomac you can be exactly at 1500 ft, no lower or higher. Indicated by the lines above and below (bracketed altitude). Line indicates floor or ceiling, or both.

33 is the one that goes se to nw. So almost invariably an intersection with rte 1
 
The ripple effect from the request by ATC to change to runway 33 a few minutes before is difficult to stomach. Of course a very benign request in a vacuum but that is some bad luck.
They do this pretty much every other arriving aircraft. If they didn’t they wouldnt get traffic off the ground. It’s crazy they allow the helo traffic along route 1 while doing so.
 
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You got some serious issues clown. To bring politics into this incident you’re one coldhearted mother****er. You got hundreds hundreds family members crying their eyes out looking for answers and people like you spread this bullshit is quite sickening. I feel sorry for you in a way. You’re pathetic.
He's a one trick pony and has been for years. Once you realize this and put him on your ignore list, your life will improve immensely.
 
They do this pretty much every other arriving aircraft. If they didn’t they wouldnt get traffic off the ground. It’s crazy they allow the helo traffic along route 1 while doing so.
CRJ’s landing light had to have been blasting the helo pilot in the eyes, I’m just baffled how he could have sighted the wrong plane and/or made no material deviation. Any thoughts on that?
 
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