Please contact Speaker Mike Johnson's office and ask him to pass support package for Ukraine.

[tumorboy]

Does this have any chance of gaining traction

Democrat eyes effort to protect Speaker Johnson in exchange for vote on Ukraine aid

A centrist Democrat is floating a proposal to shield Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) from an internal GOP coup — if the Speaker agrees to move a stalled package of foreign aid. Rep. Josh Gottheim…

thehill.com

 

[globalhawk]

Can you ask all those Democratic countries what they think of my idea? Oh wait Ukraine cancelled elections and have no plan for future ones either.

Oh Butters. You can do better than this.

 

[Tenacious E]

Does this have any chance of gaining traction

Democrat eyes effort to protect Speaker Johnson in exchange for vote on Ukraine aid

A centrist Democrat is floating a proposal to shield Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) from an internal GOP coup — if the Speaker agrees to move a stalled package of foreign aid. Rep. Josh Gottheim…

thehill.com

I have not read a single post in this thread other than this one, so SIAP, but this is bizarro-world for this 49-year old. Born in the 70s, a child of the 80s, the republicans I know and love are for America, world democracy, the free market, freedom, and sticking it to Russian and other fascist regimes. Why in the hell is that the democratic party leading this charge? What in the hell happened?

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

I have not read a single post in this thread other than this one, so SIAP, but this is bizarro-world for this 49-year old. Born in the 70s, a child of the 80s, the republicans I know and love are for America, world democracy, the free market, freedom, and sticking it to Russian and other fascist regimes. Why in the hell is that the democratic party leading this charge? What in the hell happened?

Crushing debt and an invasion on our own southern border.

 

[seminole97]

I have not read a single post in this thread other than this one, so SIAP, but this is bizarro-world for this 49-year old. Born in the 70s, a child of the 80s, the republicans I know and love are for America, world democracy, the free market, freedom, and sticking it to Russian and other fascist regimes. Why in the hell is that the democratic party leading this charge? What in the hell happened?

short version:

neocons moved to Obama/Hillary after GWB admin.

longer read:

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/17...t=The neocons may be migrating,Bernie Sanders.

 

[globalhawk]

short version:

neocons moved to Obama/Hillary after GWB admin.

longer read:

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/17/with-new-d-c-policy-group-dems-continue-to-rehabilitate-and-unify-with-bush-era-neocons/#:~:text=The neocons may be migrating,Bernie Sanders.

Thanks for using a small portion of an opinion article from the Intercept as your basis for your stance.

 

[tumorboy]

I have not read a single post in this thread other than this one, so SIAP, but this is bizarro-world for this 49-year old. Born in the 70s, a child of the 80s, the republicans I know and love are for America, world democracy, the free market, freedom, and sticking it to Russian and other fascist regimes. Why in the hell is that the democratic party leading this charge? What in the hell happened?

The head of the GOP is a Russian Asset or at least useful idiot . Being played. Same with Ron Johnson and the others.

 

[seminole97]

Thanks for using a small portion of an opinion article from the Intercept as your basis for your stance.

I know you didn't read it, but is there something you want to dispute about it?

 

[tumorboy]

Crushing debt and an invasion on our own southern border.

It’s not crushing debt if a tax cut is involved though. Or an invasion if u want to keep cheap food on the table.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

Huh?

Letting Putin roll over Ukraine could cost more. And if he attacks Poland, Romania or another NATO country, America would have to get involved.

It could end in nuclear war.

That is a stretch and the article is poorly written with claims. One can't bring things up wo being declared Maga

You do know that defeating Russia could lead to nukes?

 

[BrianNole777]

That is a stretch and the article is poorly written with claims. One can't bring things up wo being declared Maga

You do know that defeating Russia could lead to nukes?

Here's another one:

It’s Costing Peanuts for the US to Defeat Russia

The cost-benefit analysis of US support for Ukraine is incontrovertible. It’s producing wins at almost every level.

cepa.org

 

[globalhawk]

That is a stretch and the article is poorly written with claims. One can't bring things up wo being declared Maga

You do know that defeating Russia could lead to nukes?

You do know that not defeating Russia could also lead to nukes?

 

[Tenacious E]

Crushing debt and an invasion on our own southern border.

They those aims are not mutually exclusive. You know that.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

Here's another one:

It’s Costing Peanuts for the US to Defeat Russia

The cost-benefit analysis of US support for Ukraine is incontrovertible. It’s producing wins at almost every level.

cepa.org

I don't think anyone has an answer.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

Here's another one:

It’s Costing Peanuts for the US to Defeat Russia

The cost-benefit analysis of US support for Ukraine is incontrovertible. It’s producing wins at almost every level.

cepa.org

I have 2 adopted daughters who were war refugees whose family escaped to Ukraine. I have a lot of time spent in Ukraine. This war is very complex culturally and politically. War destroys people even if they survive. A Christian shoukd always seek to avoid war. This war isn't as simple as Americans like to think of Cowboys and Indians. And that doesn't make me MAGA. I have very good friends not far from Russian forces. They are terrified and no where to go. I hope the insanity ends. My daughters are forever scared by the Armenian Azerbaijani war. They are ethnic Russians. You likely know little about Russian and Ukrainian culture and history. Was it Jesus whobsaid better dead than red?

 

[BrianNole777]

I have 2 adopted daughters who were war refugees whose family escaped to Ukraine. I have a lot of time spent in Ukraine. This war is very complex culturally and politically. War destroys people even if they survive. A Christian shoukd always seek to avoid war. This war isn't as simple as Americans like to think of Cowboys and Indians. And that doesn't make me MAGA. I have very good friends not far from Russian forces. They are terrified and no where to go. I hope the insanity ends. My daughters are forever scared by the Armenian Azerbaijani war. They are ethnic Russians. You likely know little about Russian and Ukrainian culture and history. Was it Jesus whobsaid better dead than red?

I went to Ukraine for 6 weeks in 2011. Kiev and Dnipro.

I still keep in touch with two tour guides there. I did a fundraiser for one in Chernivtsi and raised $3,200 for his family. $580 was from HROT.

Ukraine is a very clear case of self-defense. It's a just war. 100%.

 

[TheCainer]

Where is congress going to cut spending to pay for foreign aid?

Probably your Medicaid.

I see your point now...

 

[ZachJump]

Most of our current problems started with Reagan. What a fake POS

Maybe they did...but those problems sure hid under a rock after Tripoli and didn't emerge into the light of the 90s

 

[hawkjt]

According to WSJ article on Tuesday 64% of the total pending support bill stays in America in our defense industries and is stimulating our economy.

How do we pay for it?
Partially reverse the Trump tax cut on those corporations as the Biden tax plan lays out. It was 35% forever...now it is 20%...biden proposes 28%.
Make the corps pay more for all this govt support.

 

[seminole97]

According to WSJ article on Tuesday 64% of the total pending support bill stays in America in our defense industries and is stimulating our economy.

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people…”
- Dwight Eisenhower

 

[hawkjt]

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people…”

- Dwight Eisenhower

Great quote that I agree with in principle.
I question that Ike would have told FDR that in the spring of 1944 as he put together the largest invasion armada in history.

 

[TylerJ23]

Here's another one:

It’s Costing Peanuts for the US to Defeat Russia

The cost-benefit analysis of US support for Ukraine is incontrovertible. It’s producing wins at almost every level.

cepa.org

I'm glad you think 500,000 lives is "peanuts"

 

[hawkjt]

I'm glad you think 500,000 lives is "peanuts"

I for one am glad France did not think your way in the 1770's as a motley Army of colonists fought to throw off the yoke of an authoritarian ruler.
Or that President Lincoln did not just agree to a negotiated peace creating a new Southern nation called the Conferate States.

Democracy is messy and hard but still beats tyranny.

 

[tumorboy]

I for one am glad France did not think your way in the 1770's as a motley Army of colonists fought to throw off the yoke of an authoritarian ruler.
Or that President Lincoln did not just agree to a negotiated peace creating a new Southern nation called the Conferate States.

Democracy is messy and hard but still beats tyranny.

How about a more recent example. Bill Clinton and NATO could have let the Yugoslavia problem run its course.

 

[hawkjt]

Ukraine is running short of shells for artillery that are only built here in the USA.
GOP is facilitating the slaughter of Ukrainian patriots.
Criminal a-holes!!!

 

[h-hawk]

Related note -
Speaker of he House Mike Johnson is surely the most obvious theocrat to occupy a space in the presidential line of succession in two centuries. Certainly, no other Speaker has declared himself to be the modern Moses while the majority he purports to lead thins almost to invisibility. Now, it seems that Moses Mike and his delusions of religious grandeur are making people very nervous. From Politico:

Johnson’s private remarks to a small group of Republican lawmakers at Miami’s Mandarin Oriental Hotel over the weekend alarmed both people, who addressed the speech on condition of anonymity. Rather than outlining a specific plan to hold and grow the majority, these people said, Johnson effectively delivered a sermon. The Louisiana Republican showed slides to the members of his Elected Leadership Committee (ELC) team in a bid to tout the party’s prospects of hanging onto its two-seat majority in November. Johnson, a devout Christian, attempted to rally the group by discussing moral decline in America — focusing on declining church membership and the nation’s shrinking religious identity, according to both people in the room. The speaker contended that when one doesn’t have God in their life, the government or “state” will become their guide, referring back to Bible verses, both people said. They added that the approach fell flat among some in the room. “I’m not at church,” one of the people said, describing Johnson’s presentation as “horrible.”

The politically active evangelical splinter Protestantism with whom the GOP made a bargain back in the late 1970's has come finally to collect what has been owed to it since the election of Ronald Reagan. It achieved its long-held goal of overturning Roe v. Wade, and the current Republican frontrunner, perhaps the most thoroughgoing heathen ever to be elected* elected to the presidency*, has promised to sign a nationwide ban on the procedure if one reaches his desk if and when he returns to misrule. Heritage's "Project 2025: A Mandate For Leadership" a proposed policy plan for the Grifter Restoration is nothing short of a blueprint for a new, muscular patriarchy. The damned thing is almost 900 pages long, and every one of those pages is dripping with unbridled lust for authoritarianism in all aspects of American life, including "the Family." It turns the entire public health apparatus into an investigative apparatus to chase down anyone associated with having, performed, or enabling an abortion. That, of course, while enfeebling in the Centers For Disease Control's ability to respond to any future pandemic because...freedom.
The document goes to war with the FDA over mifepristone. Every element of the public health bureaucracy is turned into a fanatical modern equivalent of Operation Rescue. For example, the proposal tightly restricts IVF and other aids to fertility, as well as stem-cell protocols, on the basis of anti-choice philosophizing.

Research using fetal tissue obtained from elective abortions is immoral and obsolete. Research using human embryonic stem cells also involves the destruction of human life and should not be subsidized with taxpayer dollars. [Ed Note: Objection, your honor. Assumes moral absolutes not in evidence.] Good science and life-affirming, ethical research are not mutually exclusive. In fact, ethically derived sources such as discarded surgical tissue and adult stem cells (made pluripotent), not tissue obtained from elective abortions, have contributed the most successful treatments for a variety of ailments.

This is not an idle document. It is the product of a massive collective effort on the part of almost the entire Powell Memo apparatus behind American conservatism. This is the monster behind Mike Johnson. This is his golden calf."
Charles P Pierce is the author of four books, most recently Idiot America, and has been a working journalist since 1976. He lives near Boston and has three children.



https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...-speaker-mike-johnson-talked-god-gop-retreat/




"

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

Do some damn research before you spout off. Money to Ukraine will go to all the companies that produces weapons guns and ammo…and guess who owns those companies. And guess who is in bed with blackrock…the dems.

No you should acquaint yourself with the facts. The vast majority of US aid has been in the form of tactical arms, ammunition and armament and humanitarian supplies like food and medicine most of which is coming from existing stockpiles.

You have zero idea WTF you are talking about which is par for the course when it comes to domestic Russian sympathizers who do their research in the dark recesses of the internet from paranoid biased “sources”. Get bent dumdum.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Does this have any chance of gaining traction

Democrat eyes effort to protect Speaker Johnson in exchange for vote on Ukraine aid

A centrist Democrat is floating a proposal to shield Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) from an internal GOP coup — if the Speaker agrees to move a stalled package of foreign aid. Rep. Josh Gottheim…

thehill.com

Hope so...it's what I was advocating for with McCarthy.

 

[Tiny Hands Trump]

I'm glad you think 500,000 lives is "peanuts"

If Ukraine wants to fight on we should help. Your postion is to force them to surrender by refusing to arm them.

 

[BrianNole777]

I'm glad you think 500,000 lives is "peanuts"

Uh, no.

It's all Putin's fault.

You probably would have encouraged all of Europe to surrender to Hitler.

You're on the wrong side of history, Tyler.

 

[TylerJ23]

Uh, no.

It's all Putin's fault.

You probably would have encouraged all of Europe to surrender to Hitler.

You're on the wrong side of history, Tyler.

Where did I say it wasn't Putin's fault?

If questioning how many lives we are willing to sacrifice is the wrong side of history, then so be it.

I'm simply asking what the end game is.

 

[BrianNole777]

Where did I say it wasn't Putin's fault?

If questioning how many lives we are willing to sacrifice is the wrong side of history, then so be it.

I'm simply asking what the end game is.

The end game is to expel Russia from Ukraine.

 

[TylerJ23]

The end game is to expel Russia from Ukraine.

So in 3 years when there is a million dead, you're ok with that?

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

A history cultural lesson from someone who has traveled Ukraine extensively. I will drive MAGA and Biden crazies insane. I am not a Russian troll. I have many friends in Ukraine. I have 2 Ukrainian dual citizen daughers who were war refugees whose ethnic Russian family fled to Ukraine during the Armenian/Azerbaijan war. I have taught at Ukrainian universities and worked with companies such as Pioneer Hybrids in developing the ag sector in Ukraine.

1. Nations don't care much about atrocities unless there is a strategic initiative. Rwanda, Lebanon, Azerbaijan are prime examples.

2. Gross per capita in Ukraine for 2021 was under 5k. It has risen 20 percent since due to the influx of war funding. US is $77,000. Russia is about $16,000. Ukraine is a poor country. The Donbas is particularly poor with tired/worn-out cities in decline.

3. Donbas has immense gas/oil reserves that largely are untapped.

4. Russia's economy is 1/3 petroleum/gas. 20 percent military industrial complex. Russia has never developed a broad economy. Both nations suffer immense corruption.

5. Burisma linked with Biden under the Obama Administration to develop the Donbas. Royal Dutch Shell was contracted to help to develop Donbas for the energy industry. Putin shot down MH17 over Donbas. MH17 originated in Amsterdam and had numerous Shell employees on board.

6. If Donbas is developed, Russia's economy is destroyed.

7. Russia always intended to keep Donbas from development. To do this Putin needed to keep the Black Sea from being a route to supply Ukraine militarily. To do this he seized Crimea.

8. Russia sees the Balkans war as a west attempt to move NATO east to protect the development of Donbas.

9. Putin sees the Orange Revolution as an attempt to destroy Russia by developing Donbas. Yushenko's wife Kathy is a first-generation Ukrainian from Chicago. Her name is Katya.

10. The US militarily in the 2013 initial phase of the war bypassed regular US Army and went to what is referred to as the National Guard. Guard units were in reality right wing neo nazi units such as Azov, Right Sektor and Svaboda. These elements are no more in percentage than such groups in US, but the pro west Government aligned with them to achieve parliamentary majorities. These groups were the only units capable of fighting the Russians in Donbas. The Ukraine military was a complete mess, mostly due to corruption.

11. In 2013/14, Russia tried to capture Mariupol. Azov with swastika patches and US tactics/weapons kicked Russian butt. Putin vowed to de Nazify Ukraine and destroyed Mariupol. Azov used civilians as human shields. Ukraine in other areas uses shopping malls etc as human shields to protect weapons depots.

12. Russia sees this war as fighting NATO for their survival.

13. Putin is a very bad dude but is very charming and still very popular in Russia.

14. Mothers are revered in Ukrainian culture. Unlike US mothers, Ukrainian moms will march on Kyiv when they start drafting 19 to 25 year olds and will wreak incredible influence.

15. Ukraine is running out of 40 year olds willing to fight. Ukraine cannot effectively use Abrams and Bradleys.

16. The situation is a complete disaster. Ukraine has dropped humanitarian aid to refugees.

17. Putin is not a commie. Actually most Soviets were not commies. They used a system to control the masses for wealth gain. Many of the main commies at the collapse of the Soviet Unions became millionaires and billionaires. The Soviets were in Vietnam not for world conquest but to pressure their real enemy.... Communist China.

18. The west could have done more to get a post Soviet Russia into the world community and didn't.

19. Ukraine would be in the EU except of incredible corruption.

Not sure how you fix this but I doubt more weapons and deaths is the answer.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

Uh, no.

It's all Putin's fault.

You probably would have encouraged all of Europe to surrender to Hitler.

You're on the wrong side of history, Tyler.

Read my post. And you are on the wrong side of Christianity. You've sold out to American Christianity.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

The end game is to expel Russia from Ukraine.

The end game is to develop Donbas.

 

[seminole97]

Uh, no.

It's all Putin's fault.

You probably would have encouraged all of Europe to surrender to Hitler.

You're on the wrong side of history, Tyler.

Would JFK be observing ‘just war doctrine’ if the Soviets ignored the blockade and he followed his advisers’ predilection to invade Cuba and prevent them from being turned into a threat to American security?

 

[BrianNole777]

So in 3 years when there is a million dead, you're ok with that?

Nope.

I'm OK with expelling Putin and it seems like you're not.

 

[BrianNole777]

Read my post. And you are on the wrong side of Christianity. You've sold out to American Christianity.

I already exposed your ignorance. I lived in Ukraine for 6 weeks. None of your "points" mention Putin is a homicidal dictator.

Ukranians don't want to live under Russian rule except for some puppets in Donetsk.

Ukraine is a just war. You can Google what that means.

I'm putting you on ignore now.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

Nope.

I'm OK with expelling Putin and it seems like you're not.

I'm not OK with friends dying in a war that in 30 years will be meaningless.