PSU scholarships

[jammenz]

The question is not just how Cael gets #1,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,10 on his roster next year at 9.9, but how do these guys pay their tuition if they're not on full rides.
Compare PSU vs Iowa tuition rates:
2016-17.................................................... PA Resident................................. Non-PA Resident
Tuition and Fees......................................... $17,900.............................................. $32,382
Additional Estimated Costs* .............. $12,230-15,230.................................. $12,230-15,230
TOTAL ..................................................... $30,130-33,130.................................. $44,612-47,612

Billed expenses 2017-18.................. Iowa Residents................................. Nonresidents
Tuition & fees............................................. $8,973.50.......................................... $29,755.50
Housing & meals......................................$10,450.00.......................................... $10,450.00
Total billed expenses........................... $19,423.50........................................... $40,205.50

That's more than a $120,000 instate/$180,000 outstate financial aid bill to pay just to get to play duck duck goose.

 

[butchinmi]

If my son was a blue chip recruit today, I'd pay his entire way without taking one dime from Iowas 9.9 in hopes that could be used for others who needed it to get this team back on top. I'd view it as a great investment in something I love and have a passion for and am fortunate enough to try and help. And before someone says I should support HWC, etc., I do.

Instead, my son is probably going to be the next youtuber with green hair. But, he's chasing his dream!

 

[Agoodnap]

And in very specific instances that would not be counted as a part of the athetic scholarship total, however, in all other instances it would/Should be. Plus, in the case of an ROTC scholarship which is not classified as falling under those academic aid guidelines it would/should be counted as part of the total athletic aid if that wrestler was eing recruited by that institution. Pretty sure the NCAA is looking into that abuse and most likely it will be made to be counted.

Good grief!

In addition you should look into the criteria required to be awarded an ROTC scholarship.

 

[bbwretler]

Good grief!

In addition you should look into the criteria required to be awarded an ROTC scholarship.

GOOD GRIEF! It doesnt really matter. Per NCAA rules and regs if its not a qualified scholarship under academic requirements so it is not exempt. Maybe you should look into the NCAA rules/regs/requirements. The only way it would meet the requirements is if it also meets the academic ones as well.

 

[Tony Hawk]

Just an FYI. It's not about how much money people get or don't get. It's about can they win Championship. penn state has proven if I give you 25% your son is more than likely going to make the finals or become an all American in their career. These #1 kids don't care about money. They want to win. At Penn state you win. It's pretty simple. Plus it also helps Cael was an icon when these kids were 5,6,7 years old. Once the guys leave the room and branch out into coaching the playing field will be level. Just know the next ten years is going to be terrible for everyone excluding PSU.

 

[Agoodnap]

GOOD GRIEF! It doesnt really matter. Per NCAA rules and regs if its not a qualified scholarship under academic requirements so it is not exempt. Maybe you should look into the NCAA rules/regs/requirements. The only way it would meet the requirements is if it also meets the academic ones as well.

Oy Vey...with the assumption the student is physically fit for active duty, ROTC scholarships are awarded based on academics and citizenship (being a good person).

 

[bbwretler]

Oy Vey...with the assumption the student is physically fit for active duty, ROTC scholarships are awarded based on academics and citizenship (being a good person).

I am sure they are both and i never said they were not. Just said that the ROTC SCHOLARSHIP may not not have as stringent requirements as mandated by the NCAA that academic scholarships must have to be excluded. Read the NCAA rules...there is really no argument here.

 

[EWCEWC60]

I don't think it is this difficult. Cael does not offer academic aid. Penn State offers academic or merit based aid. Merit based means you earned it from performance in HS. If your kid is 4.0 and a stud wrestler you will likely not pay much for their education. Not that I care much for PSU but a quick search shows a ton of merit scholarships like at most learning institutions.

Throw in a $5500 subsidized loan or unsubsidized if you do not qualify, instate tuition and it is affordable. Add some planning for your kids future and you are halfway home.

Then again the cost to go to PSU is about twice the cost of U Of I. Looks like a Pennsylvania kid can come to Iowa and establish residency and cut the cost per year from $36000 instate in PA to about $19000 as a resident in Iowa. Throw in 25% to 50% athletic aid and 4k to 5k merit if decent grades. Go through the FAFSA process for a $5500 federally subsidized student loan and you are now wrestling for a national wrestling powerhouse for half the cost of PSU. This is not rocket science on how we can steal recruits from Ohio, PA or Cali. Better place to live, great coaches, great wrestling and better cost of living!

 

[zwicker]

How do they afford all of these top recruits at 9.9 a yr.

Simple. No depth. They spend the same 9.9 on top recruits while other programs are spreading the money around.

 

[Agoodnap]

Simple. No depth. They spend the same 9.9 on top recruits while other programs are spreading the money around.

Look at the data above.

32 wrestlers received aid from 9.66 scholarships used in 2016.

 

[Sullivan]

Simple. No depth. They spend the same 9.9 on top recruits while other programs are spreading the money around.

You don't attract as much talent as Penn State has by offering top recruits top money, because there isn't enough money to go around. It's the opposite, you attract the talent because the athletes want to attend school and are willing to make sacrifices to do so. In my view, Cael has been very thrifty with his athletic scholarship allocations.

 

[1stplacehawk]

I'm always amazed that people can't fathom a family footing 50% of a kids college costs. Plenty of people making good money that start saving the day their kids are born. Nothing to see here.

 

[dunkej01]

I'm always amazed that people can't fathom a family footing 50% of a kids college costs. Plenty of people making good money that start saving the day their kids are born. Nothing to see here.

Ive posted similar to this on this board before.....

Some of these parents (any parents not regulated to PSU but parents in general and across college sports not just wrestling) probably spend 10k+ a year on clubs, camps, travel, hotels, clothes, tournaments, time off from work, meals, etc doing the same for another 4 years and a chance to be on the ultimate facebook page of life.......is priceless.

new escalade or a chance to have that ESPN moment....

for many that decision is ...both

 

[1stplacehawk]

Ive posted similar to this on this board before.....

Some of these parents (any parents not regulated to PSU but parents in general and across college sports not just wrestling) probably spend 10k+ a year on clubs, camps, travel, hotels, clothes, tournaments, time off from work, meals, etc doing the same for another 4 years and a chance to be on the ultimate facebook page of life.......is priceless.

new escalade or a chance to have that ESPN moment....

for many that decision is ...both

My parents paid over 50% of both me and my brother's tuition, and we probably weren't one of the 50 wealthiest families at my high school. Sure, some kids absolutely need the scholarship, but that really varies from wrestler to wrestler.

 

[cidhawkeye]

All academic aid provided through the school to a scholarship individual is counted against the athletic scholarship amount....unless the student qualifies under very specific GPA, SAT, or ACT guidelines.

Where did you get that information?

 

[Gebmo]

I'm always amazed that people can't fathom a family footing 50% of a kids college costs. Plenty of people making good money that start saving the day their kids are born. Nothing to see here.

Totally agreed. PSU is in my family for generations so the fact that my son wanted to go there (he is a junior) was not even a question. Not playing sports so I am paying for it. 100 %.

What people mistake about PSU is that it isn't as EASY to get award money as some other schools (my view), but of course you can if you are a top student as some of the wrestlers are. My daughter just graduated from ASU last year so we payed out of state tuition...because that is where she wanted to go. Cost more than PSU.

100 % of both. Am I dumb? Maybe, but I figured that if my kids got to go where they really wanted, they would do better, so it would be worth it. Seems to be the case so far.

If I am willing to pay all that money for my kids to go where they want, how hard is it to understand that parents would be willing to pay more at one school (50 % vs full ride) if that is where their kid wanted to go AND if it might help their road to NCAA, Olympics, etc?

My son could have literally cut my costs in half by going elsewhere (because of awards), but he bleeds blue and white, so I am happy to pay. The only school he applied to where he didn't get money was PSU, but the second he got his acceptance, we were mailing it in.

You may think I'm stupid, but I'm not the only one out there that thinks this way.

 

[hawknut]

When I was in college in the early 90s, I was friends with many of the Wrestlers. Even the ones who hardly saw the mat we're getting "special" help from the program.

 

[Huck]

I was talking to some PSU fans this weekend and they basically told me what a lot of people have already explained, that their guys are taking a lot less just to be a part of the program. They even mentioned that Hall was getting NOTHING. Said both his parents were doctors??? I found it hard to believe and I don't know how "in the know" they were but I can see how some kids/families would go just to be a part of the program. I mean like many on here, I'd probably send my son to Iowa and foot the bill if he had a chance to wrestle.

 

[Media Fan]

In state, out of state a funny sort of discussion. Aren't there a few out of state kids on the Iowa roster. Maybe I am mistaken. If you want to believe PSU cheats, that is your right. Why not just turn them in to the NCAA. Tearing others down to get ahead is not the best human quality, and it certainly doesn't make any of us better.
By the by, your board is terrific overall, plenty of good content.

 

[bbwretler]

Where did you get that information?

From the ncaa rule book

 

[bbwretler]

When I was in college in the early 90s, I was friends with many of the Wrestlers. Even the ones who hardly saw the mat we're getting "special" help from the program.

I was in the room with them in the 90's and find what you just said VERY HARD to believe! In fact I don't believe it!!

 

[cidhawkeye]

From the ncaa rule book

So I understand if tuition costs $20 k and I get a $15k presidential grant for my 34 ACT I count as .75 of a scholarship against the 9.9?

 

[bbwretler]

So I understand if tuition costs $20 k and I get a $15k presidential grant for my 34 ACT I count as .75 of a scholarship against the 9.9?

Not what I wrote,,, Said if you meet specific GPA, SAT or ACT requirements it counts only as acedmic aid and would not be included in an athletic scholarship amount.

 

[Sullivan]

So I understand if tuition costs $20 k and I get a $15k presidential grant for my 34 ACT I count as .75 of a scholarship against the 9.9?

You better get rid of the smart kids

 

[cidhawkeye]

Not what I wrote,,, Said if you meet specific GPA, SAT or ACT requirements it counts only as acedmic aid and would not be included in an athletic scholarship amount.

Your post was a little confusing. All academic aid requires certain targets are hit. Perhaps you should have said financial aid counts against the scholarship limit. But then again I am easily confused today

 

[1stplacehawk]

Your post was a little confusing. All academic aid requires certain targets are hit. Perhaps you should have said financial aid counts against the scholarship limit. But then again I am easily confused today

His post isn't confusing at all

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Two full pages of nothing but rumor, innuendo, guesswork and fake news.

The vast majority of these parents have spent tens of thousands of dollars on travel, entry fees, camps, clothes, private coaching, etc. Some of them were looking at that as an investment, in hopes of getting college paid for. Some of them were already planning on paying for college, anyway. Then, when they realized just how good their kid is,they decided an additional $50K-$100K might be worthwhile to seek Olympic fame. When they look at what is going on in Happy Valley right now, these parents are apparently thinking that Penn State, leading to NLWC/RTC is probably a pretty good way to go for the next level.

As far as ROTC goes, I doubt very highly that the NCAA will ever look at it. ROTC scholarships are handled on a national level, not a university level. In other words, an applicant sends his application to the U.S. Army, with 5 school preferences listed. The Army decides if the applicant is qualified and then which school they need bodies at. With the shit the NCAA has been through recently, do you think they want to take on the U.S. Army? Essentially, the NCAA would be saying, "If this kid chooses the U.S. Army scholarship, he may not get the opportunity to wrestle because it would push the team over the scholarship limit." I'd love to see Emmert in THAT meeting.

 

[bbwretler]

How do they afford all of these top recruits at 9.9 a yr.

Two full pages of nothing but rumor, innuendo, guesswork and fake news.

The vast majority of these parents have spent tens of thousands of dollars on travel, entry fees, camps, clothes, private coaching, etc. Some of them were looking at that as an investment, in hopes of getting college paid for. Some of them were already planning on paying for college, anyway. Then, when they realized just how good their kid is,they decided an additional $50K-$100K might be worthwhile to seek Olympic fame. When they look at what is going on in Happy Valley right now, these parents are apparently thinking that Penn State, leading to NLWC/RTC is probably a pretty good way to go for the next level.

As far as ROTC goes, I doubt very highly that the NCAA will ever look at it. ROTC scholarships are handled on a national level, not a university level. In other words, an applicant sends his application to the U.S. Army, with 5 school preferences listed. The Army decides if the applicant is qualified and then which school they need bodies at. With the shit the NCAA has been through recently, do you think they want to take on the U.S. Army? Essentially, the NCAA would be saying, "If this kid chooses the U.S. Army scholarship, he may not get the opportunity to wrestle because it would push the team over the scholarship limit." I'd love to see Emmert in THAT meeting.

And if the US Army had sent the PS wrestler who is on the ROTC scholarship to a school like Colorado you think he would have gone? You can't really believe the athlete and the school both dont have a say as to his scholarship and where he goes. Don't get me wrong, it's not illegal as of right now but is going to be looked into.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

And if the US Army had sent the PS wrestler who is on the ROTC scholarship to a school like Colorado you think he would have gone? You can't really believe the athlete and the school both dont have a say as to his scholarship and where he goes. Don't get me wrong, it's not illegal as of right now but is going to be looked into.

So, ROTC has been around for a little while, as have college sports. But, the PSU situation is the first of its kind. Okay.

 

[bbwretler]

So, ROTC has been around for a little while, as have college sports. But, the PSU situation is the first of its kind. Okay.

Yes, you are right. First to use it as a substitute scholarship alternative. At least the only one I or most know of.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Yes, you are right. First to use it as a substitute scholarship alternative. At least the only one I or most know of.

150 colleges offer Navy ROTC programs, 77 have Air Force, and at least 150 offer army. Just because you're not aware, doesn't mean anything.

 

[cidhawkeye]

My daughter is joining the ROTC, you are telling me she could be forced to leave Iowa?

 

[cidhawkeye]

His post isn't confusing at all

It would be redundant then

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Yes, you are right. First to use it as a substitute scholarship alternative. At least the only one I or most know of.

Perhaps you'll want to look into the following, which took me all of five minutes.

• Katelyn Murphy, Rochester Institute of Technology, Marine Option ROTC, Varsity Track
• Nicolette Kober, RIT Marine Option ROTC, Varsity Soccer
• Katherine Baum, RIT ROTC, Varsity Lacrosse
• Sam Zylstra, Boise State ROTC, Wrestler
• Kevin Knight, Boise State Army ROTC, Track Athlete
• All students at VMI and The Citadel are ROTC. Granted, some are not on ROTC scholarship, but at the very least, some of them are.
• How about Division 3 athletes, who aren't supposed to get any sports scholarships? Think any of them are on ROTC scholarship?

I'm pretty sure the NCAA is aware of this.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

My daughter is joining the ROTC, you are telling me she could be forced to leave Iowa?

If you're talking to me, my answer is no, she won't be forced to leave Iowa, but she may not be offered a scholarship in Iowa. "Joining the ROTC" and "Getting an ROTC Scholarship" are two very different things.

Here's how it works:
1. Each year, all of the ROTC units tell their branch how many available spots they have and/or the branch determines how many total candidates are required.
2. Scholarship Applicants send in their applications (national, not to the school) which indicate top 3 or 5 choices for schools.
3. U.S. Army selects candidates and starts offering scholarships to fill up the spots that each school has, trying to offer candidates first choice of schools. Obviously, some schools will have more applicants than slots, so once a school is full, they offer applicant's their next choice.

If a candidate is not selected for a scholarship, they can still "join" in ROTC for two years, which they call a "college programmer." At the end of two years, they can apply for "advanced standing", which means they get monthly stipend, uniforms and are still expected to serve 3+ years after graduation.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Agree with you.

What some here are trying to imply is that PSU and Cael are somehow cheating..they just dont want too use the word.

People have short memories. There was a day that top wrestlers flocked to Iowa City to wrestle in Gable's program even though they got little scholarship money and turned down lots of schollie money at lesser programs.

Now we likely know how fans at other schools looked upon Iowa and things they thought when Gable was in his heyday here.

Perhaps you have a short memory. Are you in any way insinuating that Gable pulled in obscenely top rated recruiting classes as often as Cael? LOL - no, no, no.

 

[bbwretler]

If you're talking to me, my answer is no, she won't be forced to leave Iowa, but she may not be offered a scholarship in Iowa. "Joining the ROTC" and "Getting an ROTC Scholarship" are two very different things.

Here's how it works:
1. Each year, all of the ROTC units tell their branch how many available spots they have and/or the branch determines how many total candidates are required.
2. Scholarship Applicants send in their applications (national, not to the school) which indicate top 3 or 5 choices for schools.
3. U.S. Army selects candidates and starts offering scholarships to fill up the spots that each school has, trying to offer candidates first choice of schools. Obviously, some schools will have more applicants than slots, so once a school is full, they offer applicant's their next choice.

If a candidate is not selected for a scholarship, they can still "join" in ROTC for two years, which they call a "college programmer." At the end of two years, they can apply for "advanced standing", which means they get monthly stipend, uniforms and are still expected to serve 3+ years after graduation.

And everything you just said is well and good. Plus, nothing will change as far as the procedure or the availability of the scholarships. Just saying that the NCAA is looking at whether that scholarship money should be counted as a potion of the total available to whichever sport the student participates in. Just like awards that are not based on specific acedemic excelence do now.

 

[Agoodnap]

And if the US Army had sent the PS wrestler who is on the ROTC scholarship to a school like Colorado you think he would have gone? You can't really believe the athlete and the school both dont have a say as to his scholarship and where he goes. Don't get me wrong, it's not illegal as of right now but is going to be looked into.

Nice 180. "Should be".

 

[pawrestlersintn]

And everything you just said is well and good. Plus, nothing will change as far as the procedure or the availability of the scholarships. Just saying that the NCAA is looking at whether that scholarship money should be counted as a potion of the total available to whichever sport the student participates in. Just like awards that are not based on specific acedemic excelence do now.

And, you completely ignored my previous message, that showed numerous examples of student athletes receiving ROTC scholarships, even though you tried to pretend they didn't exist prior to Penn State Wrestling.

Your quote, "At least the only one I or most know of." Because you chose not to do a google search on "ROTC student athlete" and look at the first article that popped up? Your partisanship is showing.

And, I'm telling you, the U.S. Army (or AF or Navy) is not going to take kindly to the NCAA trying to run its business. If the U.S. Army wants a candidate, and the NCAA does anything that might prevent that candidate from joining the U.S. Army, the NCAA will have hell to pay.

Here's the scenario:
Mason Manville wants to serve in the U.S. Army.
He applies for an Army ROTC Scholarship, which is granted at Penn State.
The NCAA says, "Oops, that's going to put Penn State over their 9.9 scholarships. Sorry."
Mark Emmert will piss his pants when the Secretary of the Army invites him to have a discussion.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Perhaps you have a short memory. Are you in any way insinuating that Gable pulled in obscenely top rated recruiting classes as often as Cael? LOL - no, no, no.

Who were doing the recruiting class rankings back then?