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Psychiatric help for someone who doesn't want it

thewop

thewop

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Jun 27, 2002
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Anyone know if there's a way to force someone to get a psych eval when they donth think they need it?

SIL (no pics) has gone nuts, making up stuff about my BIL, treating him with ultimate disrespect, trying to turn the kids against him, angry tirades about very small things (e.g. she got super pissed because she asked my BIL to install a nightlight by the stairs, and he went above and beyond with LED light strips on the stairs, and she said he wasn't a team player, didn't do what he was told, etc)

She went to a counselor but it's been worthless. Several medical people in our lives believe she has personality disorder.

BIL suggested she see a psychiatrist since the counselor wasn't helping...she blew up.

She hasn't physically threatened him or the kids yet. Is there any way to force a psych eval? She's always been a little dramatic, but never to this degree. It's impacting the kids now and we're not sure what to do.

Since this place is full of mental cases, I figure it's the perfect place to go for advice! Thanks in advance!
 
thewop said:
Anyone know if there's a way to force someone to get a psych eval when they donth think they need it?

SIL (no pics) has gone nuts, making up stuff about my BIL, treating him with ultimate disrespect, trying to turn the kids against him, angry tirades about very small things (e.g. she got super pissed because she asked my BIL to install a nightlight by the stairs, and he went above and beyond with LED light strips on the stairs, and she said he wasn't a team player, didn't do what he was told, etc)

She went to a counselor but it's been worthless. Several medical people in our lives believe she has personality disorder.

BIL suggested she see a psychiatrist since the counselor wasn't helping...she blew up.

She hasn't physically threatened him or the kids yet. Is there any way to force a psych eval? She's always been a little dramatic, but never to this degree. It's impacting the kids now and we're not sure what to do.

Since this place is full of mental cases, I figure it's the perfect place to go for advice! Thanks in advance!
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no. not really. Also pretty sure no one can make someone show up for one if they have an appointment, they can only enourage them to stay but they can't make them stay or participate.

Best you can do is encourage them to follow through with it.

im also not a doctor, just talked to a doctor about psych evals and had one myself (im normal.)
 
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also, just a heads up, even if insured, psych evals are like $400. so if she's going to blow up about a nightlight and think nothing is wrong, she prob going to blow up once she sees that bill. then immediately stop any treatment bc of price tag.
 
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Sorry about the family issues, OP.

I thought this was going to be a Trump thread.
 
In Iowa, you can request an involuntary commitment but the person has to be a threat to themselves or others. That's usually interpreted to mean fairly immediate so your SIL mentally abusing the family over a course of time probably won't qualify. It's also a very short term bandaid to a larger problem. The person is hospitalized for evaluation and then almost always released because they aren't in an acute mental crisis. Your BIL might be better served to seek therapy for himself and the kids so he can have someone that can advise him on how to deal with SIL or how to leave her.
 
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Sorry to hear that you're dealing with this. It is absolutely no fun.

We had a situation with my daughter after she'd turned 18 where we had become seriously concerned for her well being. Essentially, had to do what I'd describe as a consensual snatch-and-grab from her - 10 hours of driving, hope we can convince her to come with us, and then ten more straight back. At two phases of this particular "operation," I think the key was having a 'known neutral' with a bit of authority figure status in the room along with us to get her to agree to take the next step. In the first case, it was a college administrator, and in the second case, my sister in law who is relatively formidable and kind of read her the riot act one-on-one about how everyone was trying to help her.

The most miserable two days of my life, by far. She broke my wife's hand in the process. But it, and the long aftermath of reconciliation, were very much worth it as all ended well. Very best of luck to you.
 
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ThorneStockton said:
Can you just stop seeing them? Seems like the easiest solution. Out of sight and out of mind.
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Kind of concerned about my nieces and nephews. She's started trying to turn my 16 YO niece against my BIL, and it's visibly messing with her head. She looks totally withdrawn, lost ability to say more than a few words without sounding like she's going to cry, etc.
 
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millah_22 said:
(im normal.)
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giphy.gif
 
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thewop said:
Anyone know if there's a way to force someone to get a psych eval when they donth think they need it?

SIL (no pics) has gone nuts, making up stuff about my BIL, treating him with ultimate disrespect, trying to turn the kids against him, angry tirades about very small things (e.g. she got super pissed because she asked my BIL to install a nightlight by the stairs, and he went above and beyond with LED light strips on the stairs, and she said he wasn't a team player, didn't do what he was told, etc)

She went to a counselor but it's been worthless. Several medical people in our lives believe she has personality disorder.

BIL suggested she see a psychiatrist since the counselor wasn't helping...she blew up.

She hasn't physically threatened him or the kids yet. Is there any way to force a psych eval? She's always been a little dramatic, but never to this degree. It's impacting the kids now and we're not sure what to do.

Since this place is full of mental cases, I figure it's the perfect place to go for advice! Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
I could write a book. My BIL we found out way too late was living a lie and not working but instead blowing through his 401k at 54. We found out when his utilities were turned off, his phone was turned off, and despite saying he was living with a friend he was living in his car. It is a very long, difficult process. You have to go to the clerk of court with signed affidavits from two people detailing why you believe he/she needs to be involuntarily committed. If a judge agrees he is a danger to himself or others, sheriff dept will go and pick him up and take him to the ER for evaluation. They warned us it is a revolving door because they know what to say and not to say in order to get released. He did have a major health issue so was put in ICU prior to the psych eval. The psych person determined he wasn't currently a danger (but he did admit to in the past thinking of suicide) so he was released with the understanding he would give us the gun he said he had. I had no clue he had a handgun. We also found a rifle we took. He does now have court ordered counseling and medical appointments and while he was in the hospital they got him on Medicaid and we are in the process of getting him on disability. He has an EBT card but doesn't like to use it. I don't think he will ever be able to work again, and he used to be an executive. It was all pretty shocking and tough decision to do the involuntary. He has kids as well and was always who they lived with, but for the past couple of years they have lived with their mom. He has learned to lie very, very well.
 
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hawkbirch said:
In Iowa, you can request an involuntary commitment but the person has to be a threat to themselves or others. That's usually interpreted to mean fairly immediate so your SIL mentally abusing the family over a course of time probably won't qualify. It's also a very short term bandaid to a larger problem. The person is hospitalized for evaluation and then almost always released because they aren't in an acute mental crisis. Your BIL might be better served to seek therapy for himself and the kids so he can have someone that can advise him on how to deal with SIL or how to leave her.
Click to expand...
Same situation here. He's seeing a counselor, the kids aren't and it doesn't seem she'll let them because she knows deep down she's in the wrong and she's worried about the truth coming out.

Seems she's simultaneously nuts and trying to build a case for a favorable divorce.

She hasn't shown herself to be an immediate physical danger to herself or others though.
 
millah_22 said:
also, just a heads up, even if insured, psych evals are like $400. so if she's going to blow up about a nightlight and think nothing is wrong, she prob going to blow up once she sees that bill. then immediately stop any treatment bc of price tag.
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She has never had any financial responsibility so $400 doesn't mean anything to her. She believes it should come from the money pile that pays all the other bills.
 
Being married to someone with Borderline Personality Disorder is a nightmare, divorcing one isn't much fun but it's easier and worth it. Not say he is definitely going down that path but this story sounds much like mine.

10 years after divorce I have primary custody, the ex is unemployed, and the kids are with me 80% of the time.

If you can't get her help, get him out. BPD/NPD folks are never wrong, always argumentitive, and always starting conflict among others. They often lie, manipulate, Gaslight, then play the victim. Once everyone is on to them, they hit rock bottom and shit gets even worse.

My ex has been arrested 5 times in the last 5 years, 2 DUI, 2 trips to rehab....it's a nightmare.

Hope your brother isn't headed down this path but damn his situation sounds all too familiar.

Best of luck to him. Call him often, he needs family support...Likely more than he leads on.

Have him get the book "walking on eggshells" and see if that fits his wife...if so, there really isn't much you can do but live with it or get out, I suggest the latter.
 
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EasyHawk said:
I could write a book. My BIL we found out way too late was living a lie and not working but instead blowing through his 401k at 54. We found out when his utilities were turned off, his phone was turned off, and despite saying he was living with a friend he was living in his car. It is a very long, difficult process. You have to go to the clerk of court with signed affidavits from two people detailing why you believe he/she needs to be involuntarily committed. If a judge agrees he is a danger to himself or others, sheriff dept will go and pick him up and take him to the ER for evaluation. They warned us it is a revolving door because they know what to say and not to say in order to get released. He did have a major health issue so was put in ICU prior to the psych eval. The psych person determined he wasn't currently a danger (but he did admit to in the past thinking of suicide) so he was released with the understanding he would give us the gun he said he had. I had no clue he had a handgun. We also found a rifle we took. He does now have court ordered counseling and medical appointments and while he was in the hospital they got him on Medicaid and we are in the process of getting him on disability. He has an EBT card but doesn't like to use it. I don't think he will ever be able to work again, and he used to be an executive. It was all pretty shocking and tough decision to do the involuntary. He has kids as well and was always who they lived with, but for the past couple of years they have lived with their mom. He has learned to lie very, very well.
Click to expand...
My BIL brought all the guns and ammo, including her hand guns to our house, and we have a signed, sealed and postmarked letter with them explaining why the guns were moved to our house. She hasn't realized it yet.

First time I've ever had guns in my house... Better here than there though.
 
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thewop said:
Same situation here. He's seeing a counselor, the kids aren't and it doesn't seem she'll let them because she knows deep down she's in the wrong and she's worried about the truth coming out.

Seems she's simultaneously nuts and trying to build a case for a favorable divorce.

She hasn't shown herself to be an immediate physical danger to herself or others though.
Click to expand...
I recommend that your BIL talk to his kids' teachers or school counselor so they can be monitored for behavior changes. The kids likely know even more instances of mentally unstable behavior by their mother. I feel for all of them. My mom's last year of life she dealt with dementia. The change in her personality and thought processes were really hard on me as an adult, I can only imagine how hard it is to understand as a child.
 
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hawkeyez said:
Where does she land on the hot/crazy matrix? Sounds like she's a solid 8 on the crazy axis.
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Definitely in the danger zone. 7 hot, 8.5 crazy.

Once you know her though she's suddenly about 4 hot.
 
Colonoscopy said:
But wouldn't you just stop with one SIL or BIL. The spouse of the wife's sibling shouldn't be an in-law. If so, where does it stop?
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Sibling-in-law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

​

A sibling-in-law is the spouse of one's sibling, or the sibling of one's spouse, or the person who is married to the sibling of one's spouse.[1]

Sibling-in-law also refers to the reciprocal relationship between a person's spouse and their sibling's spouse.
 
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gojojo said:
Being married to someone with Borderline Personality Disorder is a nightmare, divorcing one isn't much fun but it's easier and worth it. Not say he is definitely going down that path but this story sounds much like mine.

10 years after divorce I have primary custody, the ex is unemployed, and the kids are with me 80% of the time.

If you can't get her help, get him out. BPD/NPD folks are never wrong, always argumentitive, and always starting conflict among others. They often lie, manipulate, Gaslight, then play the victim. Once everyone is on to them, they hit rock bottom and shit gets even worse.

My ex has been arrested 5 times in the last 5 years, 2 DUI, 2 trips to rehab....it's a nightmare.

Hope your brother isn't headed down this path but damn his situation sounds all too familiar.

Best of luck to him. Call him often, he needs family support...Likely more than he leads on.

Have him get the book "walking on eggshells" and see if that fits his wife...if so, there really isn't much you can do but live with it or get out, I suggest the latter.
Click to expand...
Sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like her to the tee...
 
thewop said:
Sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like her to the tee...
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2010-2013 were as close to hell as I ever hope to see. I was at 190 at 6'0 and dropped to 145. These people go around telling everyone you're the problem through lies and deceit, and they have perfected it because they have really been lying their way through life. They take on the personality, interests, and behaviors of those they fall for, which makes them attractive to their victim, and then they ruin that person. My ex has dated a farm boy (got the boots and hat and was all Florida Georgia lines all day), married an alt punk kid (started wearing all the fashion from that scene), dated a latino guy (all salsa music all the time), now is into a Harley guy (leather jacket and head bands).

Its creepy.

Fatal Attraction and Single White Female feature prominent characters with BPD if you're familiar with those films.

Eventually the curtains are pulled back and the truth is exposed, but getting through it is incredibly difficult. My kids are 18, 16 and 14 and the youngest two are just starting to see the patterns after an arrest just last week for Obstruction.

Again, get the book "walking on eggshells" for him today. If it fits, get him out at all costs.
 
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Looking ahead to the custody battle. Is there anything that can be done to report/document that we believe she needs psychiatric help so it can be on record in the court? Would it do any good?

BIL is a retired army major and has struggled (mildly) with alcohol in the past. He doesn't drink anymore at all, but She'll use alcohol against him at every turn (does already, accuses him of drinking regularly). In trying to meet her long list of demands to keep the family together, he started going to AA meetings to show he's making an effort to fix the relationship. he quit drinking well before starting meetings, but was(is) trying to salvage the family so he goes.
 
thewop said:
Looking ahead to the custody battle. Is there anything that can be done to report/document that we believe she needs psychiatric help so it can be on record in the court? Would it do any good?

BIL is a retired army major and has struggled (mildly) with alcohol in the past. He doesn't drink anymore at all, but She'll use alcohol against him at every turn (does already, accuses him of drinking regularly). In trying to meet her long list of demands to keep the family together, he started going to AA meetings to show he's making an effort to fix the relationship. he quit drinking well before starting meetings, but was(is) trying to salvage the family so he goes.
Click to expand...


I'd document everything. It may not help but it sure can't hurt. I'd talk to an attorney.

I was able to get my hands on my exes diary where she talked about how she is aware she's bat shit crazy. Dirty business I suppose but so is sleeping depth someone else in our bed....on my birthday. The rules kinda go out the window at that point.
 
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gojojo said:
I'd document everything. It may not help but it sure can't hurt. I'd talk to an attorney.

I was able to get my hands on my exes diary where she talked about how she is aware she's bat shit crazy. Dirty business I suppose but so is sleeping depth someone else in our bed....on my birthday. The rules kinda go out the window at that point.
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Been telling my BIL he should at least speak with an attorney, and I offered to go along and take notes. He is holding out hope for reconciliation but none of the rest of us see any way that can be possible, especially because she doesn't show any sign of wanting reconciliation. They started marriage counseling...but it's way late.
 
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