Dude, go away.
It's not enough you won the team title now you flip one of our biggest recruits.
In fact, I'll leave.
Taking a break from the wrestling world for a bit. It'll be a nice reset and i'm sure it'll make the gf happy.
RBY to Iowa?
- Thread starter JG165
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It's not enough you won the team title now you flip one of our biggest recruits.
In fact, I'll leave.
Taking a break from the wrestling world for a bit. It'll be a nice reset and i'm sure it'll make the gf happy.
Maybe so, but opinions can change too. Mark Perry wasn't high on Iowa until things happened and he gave it a real look. Turned out alright for him and that would have been harder to overcome then someone that doesn't have family ties else where.
True. Maybe RBY feels Cael turned on him by taking GT. Hopefully he wants to face GT and prove his worth....which I know he can do anywhere; but how much sweeter than in an Iowa singlet
That and all I am saying is if he opens his ears a little bit, and decides to check it out.... He may love it like we do!
Let's hope he listens. If Iowa could snag him; Lee/RBY wouldn't be much different than having Lee/Teasdale
No not official; but when homer Willie (no offense meant, he loves him some PSU) has his sources, it's "probably" a good bet...
ok thanks. however having gotten burned by getting sucked into the GT belief... i'll believe it when i see it. hopefully i do.
Fair enough, but RBY probably doesn't have a starting spot with Teasdale, Soriano and (Nick)Lee...
Cael took the World Jr FS Gold medalist, who won his final match by TF, and prevented him from deteriorating. That's called "development."
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Pretty high bar you set there, hawkster03. You make it sound like Clark and Gilman were flops. By most any measure both were very successful.
Clark was a 4x AA - 5,2,2,1. Becomes a national champ with torn wrist ligaments and torn labrum in shoulder.
Gilman W/L 108-8, was a 3x AA - 4,2,3 (prevented from winning 4 because he was competing against..... Clark.... for the starting spot). World Jr Bronze medalist.
The one pearl I'm taking from this thread is that Willie's pushing a pro-Iowa angle here. I like it.
And by the way, I'd take RBY, too.
I gotta think he bails. Not saying he can't beat surinao, gt, or Nick Lee but none of these 4 are seeing 149. Lee looked like a small 141lber when he wrestled this year against the mizzu kid. RBY has to be pretty upset they recruited a kid super hard that was already committed somewhere else for a weight that they already had a great recruit verballed.
Not to mention he still has the option to go to the best lower weight university in the country
Not to mention he still has the option to go to the best lower weight university in the country
Remember, being "big for the weight" isn't what we're about.
With that said, I'll tell you that from what I hear, if RBY does decide to move on, it's either Iowa, or he stays home and heads north on I-10 to Tempe. No goofers.
How many 125-133 champs does PSU have under Cael? I'm pretty sure it's 1 even more specific how many finalist have the y got at those 2 weights under Cael? Again pretty sure it's 1. Iowas lightweight track record under its current administration is still the top dog. Not saying he could have some deep tinted glasses on but his claim can't be that far fetched since Teasdale is around that weight projection
Sorry, not the place to take up further. By cap I meant schollie count, not available $$. Sounds like we're on same page.
You love to beat this drum across all boards as often as you can, but the point you drive is a non sequitur.
Nobody can dispute that Cael is killing it in recruiting, but to imply that he hasn't proven, or cannot, or is subpar at, or is not among the cream of the crop at developing wrestlings (not sure which avenue you might take) because he is so good at recruiting is a logical fallacy. No correlation between the two.
Stolen statistics (not my research);
"In the top 25 of the D1CW.net rankings since the 2011 recruiting class, 51 #1 ranked wrestlers have had 142 opportunities to wrestle. 13 of those opportunities have ended in national championships, or 9.2%.
Cael and Co.'s #1 recruits claim 18 of those opportunities during that time, and 5 of the champions, or 27.8%."
So Cael is churning out National Champs from top 25 recruits who were #1 (weight class) at a rate of 3 to 1 to the rest of the country over the past six recruiting seasons. Didn't do national finalists, but unless there is an anomaly, it looks like the finalists ratio will be even greater.
So, you say, that's Top 25 and who cares about #1 in the weight class - we're talking about TOP TEN IN THEIR CLASS recruits here - big difference (although statistically it isn't a huge one).
"Of all top 10 recruits between 2011 and 2016, PSU % of All-Americans to Opportunities (Opportunity is defined as a non-RS year wrestled.) is 78%. PSU % of Champions to Opportunities is 30%.
The rest of the field is at 38% AA to Opportunity, and 8% Champs to Opportunity.
Cael & Co's AA rate for the past six years for top 10 recruits is over double the rest of the field and Champ rate is almost 4x the rest of the field.
So, yes, we all know that having the talent is a must to compete in this era, but either:
1) Cael & Co are just so much better at identifying which elite recruits are really likely to succeed and avoids most of the ones that may not.
or
2) Cael & Co can develop wrestlers pretty well. At least as well as the top staffs in the country.
or
3) a combination of the above.
But that's just my logic and some stolen stats.
BTW, this is not to say that the Brands are not great at developing wrestlers also. I think it's pretty much agreed upon by Hawk fans that they needed to step up recruiting, have recognized this and are attempting to accomplish that. And given equal talent to start with - right now it would be hard to say what would happen, the sample size is not really big enough for Iowa (not meant as a cut). Maybe we will know in another five years.
But to imply - as you always do - that Cael just kinda rolls them out there and things like 5 underclassmen including two frosh and two sophs will just win NCs on their own is pretty lame.
Didn't really want to post anything PSU related on this board this week and wasn't planning to, but the constant refrain just got the best of me.
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The Gophers had the money for RBY plus he knew Gable was probably headed there and he chose PSU.
Not really valid. Maybe limit it to the #1's that went to the top teams in the country. How many #1's went to average or subpar programs?
Didn't read most of your post because your stats aren't relevant. What schools did the other number 1 ranked kids go to? Many top ranked kids take the full ride and are the only good wrestler around their weight. List the schools those 51 #1 ranked kids wrestled for. Cael can't hold Brands jock for development and coaching. Brands hasn't been able to hold Caels jock in recruiting.
Chicken or egg? Isn't the very point that some are the top teams in the country and others are average or subpar (which don't get a whole heck of a lot of them)?
You seem to be having trouble with my premise. I'm not stating that Cael & Co. are better than every other top program in the country, but stating that the statistics show they are at least equal to them AND they are better recruiters.
Didn't read most of my post, but yet commented. Then posit that many top ranked kids are the only good wrestlers around their weight. Then another assertion about development without any attempt at backing it up with statistics.
The bolded above tells me where you stand with this and that's quite alright. You're a Hawk fan, I get it.
Not so sure about that. After a RS year, there could well be spots for both Teasdale and RBY at 133/141. This assumes Nick Lee at 149 and Berge at 157 by their RS sophomore seasons, not a far-fetched scenario.
We'll see what RBY decides to do, but I don't necessarily buy the argument that Teasdale squeezes RBY out of a PSU lineup spot.
Now you guys sound like HR did last year after the Lee/gt commitment when we had 4 lightweights and only to spots, pretty sure there was a lot of "delusional " comments from your fan base on the subject as well
Okay but are you done recruiting? What is verlerken decides to go to PSU, which is very possible.
He certainly seems to have seperated himself from a really very good Sorensen.
You realize Sorensen was nowhere near the level of a recruit as retherford, right? The fact of Sorensen being as good as he is now is a lot of development. Obviously the psu kids get better but they're all already considered top level talents before going there
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Dice, that's a rather lengthy post, but I'll try to address the main points.
I've never said Cael can't develop wrestlers, I just said it's hard to tell how much, given the high level he is starting with. The rest is you just putting words in my mouth, and making wrong assumptions.
As far as your stats, not arguing them, but you are missing an essential point, and your stats do not refute it.
Josh Shields, Jered Cortez and Garrett Peppelman were all top ranked in their weight classes, but none were top 10 p4p. A guy can be the top in his weight class and not be ranked in the top 10 p4p.
Cael goes well above that.
Cael has been getting guys that are all tops in weight class, but also virtually all top 10 p4p, many top 5 p4p and two #1p4p. No one - Iowa, tOSU, Okla St - comes close.
Look at the past 6 years. Somewhat arbitrary, but if one looks at the truly elite, say the top 7 p4p, here's how the recruiting #'s break down for the last 6 years 2011 through 2016.
PSU 11 (Hall, Suriano, Manville, Joseph, Nolf, Nevills, Nickal, Retherford, Gulibon
McIntosh, Megaludis)
Iowa 1 (Marinelli)
PSU trounces everyone in getting the very elite.
Cael has been more successful at recruiting elites than anyone. That is indisputable. If you feel a need to get defensive about it, that's your call.
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Exactly. If anything, Sorensen is the poster child of development at Iowa. The fact that Sorenson--a #8-10 at 149, #60ish overall--is wrestling close matches (depending on the match) with the #3 overall recruit of 2013 is incredible.
I truly don't believe Iowa needs to match PSU P4P Top 10 recruit for P4P Top 10 recruit. We just can't be 0 to their 10. I think if we get, the right, 1.5 P4P Top 10 guys like Lee and Warner a year and a slew of 20-50 P4P guys we will be back on top.
Sorenson was ranked much higher then that; #27 overall at D1CW. http://www.d1collegewrestling.net/Top200_2013.html Considering Retherford just TF and Pinned his way through the NCAA tournament, it's safe to say he has developed just as much, if not more at PSU. This is undeniable.
With the steady flow of alternative facts and fake news over here, you guys are going to need permanent fact checkers soon.
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From intermat...
149:
1. Zain Retherford (Penn State) -- No. 3 in Class of 2013
2. Lavion Mayes (Missouri) -- NR in Class of 2012
3. Brandon Sorensen (Iowa) -- No. 62 in Class of 2013
4. Micah Jordan (Ohio State) -- No. 6 in Class of 2014
5. Max Thomsen (Nothern Iowa) -- No. 14 in Class of 2015
6. Solomon Chishko (Virginia Tech) -- No. 11 in Class of 2014
7. Ken Theobold (Rutgers) -- NR in Class of 2012
8. Alex Kocer (South Dakota State) -- NR in Class of 2012
