Recruiting battles

[MSU158]

All good. Fair points. Cassar is just literally the only guy who falls outside of the "top recruit" level who won a chip. Barring injuries, Sheed was looking like one of those as well.

And yeah, I know you're complimentary of Carl, that was me giving you a little dig.

Not sure I'd go as far to say as he's better than what Gable did. Gable AVERAGED 7.8 AAs a year. That is an incredible number.

I love what Gable did and, in my time, he was so far ahead of everyone it was impossible for us to even understand. However, with the advancements in technology, social media, travel and access to top wrestling clubs, facilities and 1 on 1 training with DI wrestlers and even top international guys, the country has shrunk to a point where a top coach can't simply go out, identify and poach super talented guys that no one else has really heard of.

Under the current landscape, what Cael has done takes that "impossible for us to even understand" part to another level. He has always been able to land top recruits and was able to land HUGE donors, create a coaching staff that only a handful of other staffs can even come remotely close to and, most importantly, created an RTC with an unprecedented amount of depth and accolades. Add in that they are located smack dab in the middle of the most talented High School wrestling in the country and you have so many factors no one could ever come close to matching.

Short of Cael getting bored, ill or some sort of scandal, PSU is going to be untouchable for quite some time to come and firing Tom and bringing in Taylor sure as hell wasn't changing that...

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

"average" DI recruit

No thanks, because average wrestlers aren't recruited let alone are they "big time D1 recruits."

 

[lookleft goright]

Thank you for that. That helps make my point very simple. Unheralded and not very good are NOT synonymous. Like I said in my response to VHS, Cassar didn't have the long term High School results that are usually necessary to get a guy up near the top 10 lb4lb rankings. But, that doesn't in anyway mean he wasn't at that level by the end of his Senior year. What he did that season, coupled with his Junior results not long after, say more about how good he was than some massive development...

Spotting talent and/or having a pipeline to people who give a heads up on talent is a valuable asset.

 

[1stplacehawk]

Appears the argument has transitioned from recruiting abilities to talent development. I think what is being forgotten is coaching is important towards development, but it's equally important to have a room full of quality training partners. Due to their ability to constantly snag top 10 recruits PSU has increased their ability to out-develop every program as well.

Ability to evaluate talent and be selective with who you recruit (yes even inside the top 10) also matter. Too many variables in play to make an accurate assessment of development. We know that PSU obviously does a good job with the final product. Iowa fans have motivation to dispel the “PSU develops better” narrative, and PSU fans have motivation to keep it in place. Both sides will argue endlessly until they are blue in the face. Rinse and repeat

 

[Libertylover]

^YES!!!

Here is one that will ruffle some TURKEY feathers! what about(dare I say it!?!?!?) AJ??? IF he makes it threw this season without problems. WOULD you CONSIDER bringing him back? The obvious reasons would be, TOP 197, which we will need. Also I am guess it might not be that big a hit money wise(of course if he wins a title that goes UP!) because he has all the side hustles which would greatly increase with the IOWA exposure he would be getting.

Now you would possible have a TOP end of Arnold, Ferarri#1, Ferrarri #2, and Krueter!!! Deluca and Ayala start things off, now get the middle weights going, not sure of the eligability left with kennedy and Cailendo? Maybe grab some of the wrestlers who WILL be leaving F*** st along with our "hit" list of HS recruits!!!

I think Facundo will be looking for a new home soon

 

[Grip220]

You guys need to stop!
Facts- Penn state can make any wrestler better, part of that is having some of the best guys to compete with at similar weight in the room with you, iron sharpens iron.
Facts- Has the money and resources to put “all kinds” of effort to ensure this.

IMO- Iowa and TNT with the same amount of top 10 recruits year in and year out would win as many championships as they would or extremely close.

Fact- psu has gotten 10-1 generational type talented guys in the last 15 years then everyone else, except maybe Cornell.

Fact- we must recruit better step #1

 

[GableBeer]

You guys need to stop!
Facts- Penn state can make any wrestler better, part of that is having some of the best guys to compete with at similar weight in the room with you, iron sharpens iron.
Facts- Has the money and resources to put “all kinds” of effort to ensure this.

IMO- Iowa and TNT with the same amount of top 10 recruits year in and year out would win as many championships as they would or extremely close.

Fact- psu has gotten 10-1 generational type talented guys in the last 15 years then everyone else, except maybe Cornell.

Fact- we must recruit better step #1

TnT need to use some funds to go and get better people in the RTC, Penn St has always tried to bring in as many elite senior level wrestlers as possible, Iowa doesn’t seem to prioritize it.

 

[west2east]

TnT need to use some funds to go and get better people in the RTC, Penn St has always tried to bring in as many elite senior level wrestlers as possible, Iowa doesn’t seem to prioritize it.

Gable had the best club . Oklahoma st had the Gator WC. Penn st has the NLWC. The teams with the dominant club have been the teams winning championships

 

[js8793]

Gable had the best club . Oklahoma st had the Gator WC. Penn st has the NLWC. The teams with the dominant club have been the teams winning championships

cc Tom Brands

 

[MSU158]

TnT need to use some funds to go and get better people in the RTC, Penn St has always tried to bring in as many elite senior level wrestlers as possible, Iowa doesn’t seem to prioritize it.

This is the one part where I DO think criticism of Brands is warranted. Now, I get his stance and even why he feels the way he does. John Smith pretty much felt the same. However, it eventually did cost Smith as he obviously wasn't willing to adapt and it will eventually catch up to Tom, even if I do truly believe he is doing everything else about as well as he can.

Somehow, some way, he has to suck it up and develop an RTC that can at least compete with Cliff Keen and at least not be planets away from NLWC...

 

[vhsalum]

cc Tom Brands

Why? He's heard it ad nauseam and from people on the HWC board. He doesn't care to run it in that manner.

 

[moug]

I’m probably wrong on this, but doesn’t the wrestling NIL $ come from the HWC? So it’s a matter of choosing to get/pay post-grads or use it for NIL to add to the NCAA roster? Not saying you can’t do both but usually there’s some give and take as nobody had unlimited funding.

 

[vhsalum]

I’m probably wrong on this, but doesn’t the wrestling NIL $ come from the HWC? So it’s a matter of choosing to get/pay post-grads or use it for NIL to add to the NCAA roster? Not saying you can’t do both but usually there’s some give and take as nobody had unlimited funding.

No. 2 different revenue streams.

You are partly correct in terms of donor base though. So its absolutely a choice in terms of where our money goes.

 

[USPMAN]

Stop hittin the pipe and maybe your sorry ass world will get better!?!?!?

And stop using CassarSalad as an example of development!!! Kid was a big time recruit who got hurt as I recall and dropped some. Did not do much till he got on the shEEEt and moved to heavy! PERIOD!!!

Well guess what, your recollection is a tad off, Cassar only qualified for the state tournament one time in his high school career…..certainly not an “elite” recruit

 

[USPMAN]

You are one twisted demented FOOL!!! Guy above just posted he went undefeated and won a NJ state title as a senior. Clearly indicating he jumped levels. I believe that he also made some noise in FS before college?

Beating Moore is nice, what else did he do before getting on the great krailures F*** st special source???

ALSO- please defer from the BS that he wasn't taking something!!!! He reported that he gained 40 pounds! Now some will say, well a sucked out college kid can do that, which may be true. BUT- they also reported he was fighting in MMA at 205 AFTER college??? GEE i wonder how that happened!?!??! I will tell you how it happened. It DOESN'T happen!!! Go from wrestling 197, to 240, to 205 in a matter of THREEEEEE years or so?????

Maybe you should call your state representative and report him

 

[SJP80]

You guys need to stop!
Facts- Penn state can make any wrestler better, part of that is having some of the best guys to compete with at similar weight in the room with you, iron sharpens iron.
Facts- Has the money and resources to put “all kinds” of effort to ensure this.

IMO- Iowa and TNT with the same amount of top 10 recruits year in and year out would win as many championships as they would or extremely close.

Fact- psu has gotten 10-1 generational type talented guys in the last 15 years then everyone else, except maybe Cornell.

Fact- we must recruit better step #1

No lies here. Even the IMO is a balanced statement. It's really that simple AND that hard.

 

[MilleGinja]

This level of bickering is usually reserved for the off season

 

[Sandor45]

getting Lee gave the Brands a lifeline and an extended contract making Iowa Wrestling a program fighting for 4th, 3rd, and sometimes 2nd for the next 15 years.
The chance for the program to course correct has long passed.
Even if we did manage to get Bo and Jax, it’s not enough to contend.
This is the reality.

 

[Grip220]

This is the one part where I DO think criticism of Brands is warranted. Now, I get his stance and even why he feels the way he does. John Smith pretty much felt the same. However, it eventually did cost Smith as he obviously wasn't willing to adapt and it will eventually catch up to Tom, even if I do truly believe he is doing everything else about as well as he can.

Somehow, some way, he has to suck it up and develop an RTC that can at least compete with Cliff Keen and at least not be planets away from NLWC...

Spencer Lee is obviously a big part of that equation. I have expressed in the past that some top guys competing for the US team besides our guys is needed at the HWC easier said than done when you look at the top five at each international weight class. Who fits the bill that could be brought in right now?

 

[Grip220]

getting Lee gave the Brands a lifeline and an extended contract making Iowa Wrestling a program fighting for 4th, 3rd, and sometimes 2nd for the next 15 years.
The chance for the program to course correct has long passed.
Even if we did manage to get Bo and Jax, it’s not enough to contend.
This is the reality.

I disagree

 

[MSU158]

Spencer Lee is obviously a big part of that equation. I have expressed in the past that some top guys competing for the US team besides our guys is needed at the HWC easier said than done when you look at the top five at each international weight class. Who fits the bill that could be brought in right now?

Believe me, I don't think there is an easy answer. I know how hard it is going to be at this point. Getting J'Den involved made a lot of sense to me, but now that he is essentially "retired", I am not sure if that is a move worth making either.

At this point, I don't envy Brands having to figure it out. But, I do think he needs to. Iowa simply isn't recruiting the amount of top level talent necessary to build an RTC from within. Maybe think out of the box and bring in a Russian with a bunch of medals like UofM did?

 

[IRONBIRD]

IRON,

I'm not sure if you've ever seen a college weight room, with college S&C coaches. It's really not that hard. And he was cutting a ton to get to 197. So when he says he put on forty pounds - he just means from the weight class. He wrestled 195 his senior year. The year he won NCAAs he weighed in at 238.

He was NOT good in high school. He won 1 state title, but had never even qualified for the state tournament prior to that. And he won a weight that wasn't even good. No ranked wrestlers, and he didn't wrestle ANYONE. Didn't go to any tough tournaments, didn't wrestle at the beast, didn't wrestle a ranked wrestler. So to answer your question - before he entered PSU, he did nothing, had beaten no one.

Carl gets credit for developing Cassar and even Rasheed to a certain degree. Neither were top-ranked recruits and no one was looking at them as future starters for NCAAs. Carl also gets credit for the misses. Berge, Gulibon, Nevills, the deterioration of the Suriano relationship.

And you clearly haven't seen these NFL players that go from 325 to 205 and look like half of the human beings they were when they played football. And the NFL has one of the most stringent drug testing programs, so you can't say they're just all on the sauce.

You lose this argument. Just leave it alone.

I know more about weight TRAINING the the next 10 guys up in dis BeeOush!!! EXTREMELY hard to add that weight while ALSO training to wrestle!!! That being said, YOU and others have indicated, that he was cutting a lot of weight to get to 197????

IF that was the case, how was he then fighting at 205 several years removed from F*** st??????

Now for the 2nd part........ There is some discrepancy about how good he was in HS and when he went on to win some big FS stuff?

This is the most disingenuous post of your illustrious career, and that is really saying something.

Saying Cassar was not a "big time recruit" is beyond laughable. Just because he wasn't super high in the pound for pound rankings, anyone with a brain that watched him wrestle his senior year knew how good he was. The guy went something like 43-0 in dominant fashion to win arguably one of the harderst top 2 or 3 state championships in the country. Mind you, like CA, NJ is a 1 division state, so the tournament isn't watered down in the slighest like many other tough states that have multiple divisions.

On top of that Cassar won the Junior WTT not long after graduation and went on to take 8th at Junior Worlds. Are we saying Cael developed him from obscurity into the best guy in the US around his weight in a couple of months? Come on...

^^^THIS

This is a brutally terrible argument from a guy that professes to be a wrestling pundit. Cassar was undefeated his senior year and dominated a very tough State Tournament. On top of it he very quickly went on to win Junior Nationals and go on to Junior Worlds, taking 8th. Guys that are "NOT good in high school" don't do that....

Mind you, I am not arguing that "rankers" didn't have him very high as a recruit. I am simply pointing out that he was VERY GOOD coming out of High School and just because he didn't have the early High School dominance that is usually necessary to get someone ranked top 10 lb4lb, doesn't mean he wasn't that good by the time he came out of High School and I am definitely arguing his senior year results along with Junior Nationals and Worlds prove that to be true...

and ^^^THIS

Yes, at the weight of 195.



Modern nutrition unavailable to him before becoming a PSU athlete, like the rest. He was still a growing boy. His FS injury occurred while wrestling as 2015 World Team Member at 96 kilograms. That's 211l.6bs.

As vhualum said, do the math. It's right there in front of you. All evidence points to he was cutting a lot of weight. That's for a one off against Moore. It's not so good for a 3-day tournament.

Wrestled 195 sr year in HS, was at 197 for FOUR years at F*** st!!!! That is at least FIVE years(not sure where he was as a jr in HS?) at about the same weight!!!!

THEN went on to add 40 pounds!!! Then took it off AFTER leaving F*** st!!!!

Cassar definitely jump many levels while at Penn st. Regardless of how much hate one has for Penn st saying Cassar didn't develop big time at Penn is asinine

The ARGUMENT was about his ability coming out of HS!!! Very few if ANY HS wrestlers wouldn't need to and/or develope once in a college room!!!

Maybe you should call your state representative and report him

Lucky for America our Representatives are ALSO Americans AGAIN!!!

getting Lee gave the Brands a lifeline and an extended contract making Iowa Wrestling a program fighting for 4th, 3rd, and sometimes 2nd for the next 15 years.
The chance for the program to course correct has long passed.
Even if we did manage to get Bo and Jax, it’s not enough to contend.
This is the reality.

You are WRONG!!! They are a few pieces away from taking F*** st out again!!!

 

[HugoBear]

And yeah, I know you're complimentary of Carl, that was me giving you a little dig.

Not sure I'd go as far to say as he's better than what Gable did. Gable AVERAGED 7.8 AAs a year. That is an incredible number.8

If Gable averaged 7.8 AA's per year, what is the number of AA's per year that PSU has averaged since Cael became coach?

Any idea on individual national championships won on average per year?
What about team championships as a percentage of Gable/Cael being the head coach?

I am genuinely curious how they compare. My guess is that Gable is still on top.

 

[west2east]

If Gable averaged 7.8 AA's per year, what is the number of AA's per year that PSU has averaged since Cael became coach?

Any idea on individual national championships won on average per year?
What about team championships as a percentage of Gable/Cael being the head coach?

I am genuinely curious how they compare. My guess is that Gable is still on top.

Gable was head coach for 21 years and had 45 champs and 15 team titles
Cael has coached Penn st at 14 NCAA tournaments and has 38 champs and 11 team titles. They've 83 AAs in those 14 NCAA tournaments so 5.9 a year . That's not counting the year the NWCA handed out awards the year NCAAs was cancelled

 

[HugoBear]

Thanks W2E, I don't know where to begin looking that information up.

Gable Average Individual Champs: 2.14 per year
Cael Average Individual Champs: 2.71 per year

Gable Average Team Championships: 0.71 per year
Cael Average Team Championships: 0.79 per year

Very interesting how close the numbers are when comparing the two.

 

[Sandor45]

I know more about weight TRAINING the the next 10 guys up in dis BeeOush!!! EXTREMELY hard to add that weight while ALSO training to wrestle!!! That being said, YOU and others have indicated, that he was cutting a lot of weight to get to 197????

IF that was the case, how was he then fighting at 205 several years removed from F*** st??????

Now for the 2nd part........ There is some discrepancy about how good he was in HS and when he went on to win some big FS stuff?

^^^THIS

and ^^^THIS

Wrestled 195 sr year in HS, was at 197 for FOUR years at F*** st!!!! That is at least FIVE years(not sure where he was as a jr in HS?) at about the same weight!!!!

THEN went on to add 40 pounds!!! Then took it off AFTER leaving F*** st!!!!

The ARGUMENT was about his ability coming out of HS!!! Very few if ANY HS wrestlers wouldn't need to and/or develope once in a college room!!!

Lucky for America our Representatives are ALSO Americans AGAIN!!!

You are WRONG!!! They are a few pieces away from taking F*** st out again!!!

Take your meds

 

[Sandor45]

I disagree

I really hope I’m wrong too….

 

[Flying_Tiger]

He wasn't a Junior World Team member as a "recruit" - because you're right, that would have put him pretty damn high up the list of high school wrestlers.

You're just wrong. And really, it can be said - Cassar is probably the ONLY "lesser" recruit that Carl has made an NCAA champ.

Aside from Cassar who was not ranked in the top 100, Matt Brown was ranked in the 70s and Molinaro was at least in the 30s if not lower.

 

[Pennstate1985]

getting Lee gave the Brands a lifeline and an extended contract making Iowa Wrestling a program fighting for 4th, 3rd, and sometimes 2nd for the next 15 years.
The chance for the program to course correct has long passed.
Even if we did manage to get Bo and Jax, it’s not enough to contend.
This is the reality.

I guess in some respects, Spencer Lee may have cost Iowa a chance for DT. Alternate universe type comment.

 

[24timenattychamps]

I guess in some respects, Spencer Lee may have cost Iowa a chance for DT. Alternate universe type comment.

Worth it

 

[ff141]

Aside from Cassar who was not ranked in the top 100, Matt Brown was ranked in the 70s and Molinaro was at least in the 30s if not lower.

I think Molinaro was a Sunderland recruit and AA before Sanderson arrived

 

[jayridescarbon]

I know how hard it is going to be at this point.

 

[Grip220]

I really hope I’m wrong too….

Tides are favorable, We have a chance to make very big strides this year. Time is now!

 

[Pennstate1985]

Tides are favorable, We have a chance to make very big strides this year. Time is now!

In what way? Recruiting or the season?

 

[MALOS]

getting Lee gave the Brands a lifeline and an extended contract making Iowa Wrestling a program fighting for 4th, 3rd, and sometimes 2nd for the next 15 years.
The chance for the program to course correct has long passed.
Even if we did manage to get Bo and Jax, it’s not enough to contend.
This is the reality.

Bo, Jax, Ferrari, DeLuca, Keuter, and Arnold certainly help close the gap. Another strong class and we are even closer. You gotta start somewhere and I say why not now

And we still have Ayala, Caliendo next year and if we get Figueroa and a few others until the studs arrive then we aren’t losing any more ground.

 

[west2east]

Bo, Jax, Ferrari, DeLuca, Keuter, and Arnold certainly help close the gap. Another strong class and we are even closer. You gotta start somewhere and I say why not now

And we still have Ayala, Caliendo next year and if we get Figueroa and a few others until the studs arrive then we aren’t losing any more ground.

Kennedy is back next year as well

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

Speak for yourself, but if I could eat my own dick, I would never leave the house, let alone have time to post on a Hawkeye forum.

It’s not that great.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

It’s not that great.

Wait so you can blow yourself and you’re bad at it?! Man that’s depressing

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

Wait so you can blow yourself and you’re bad at it?! Man that’s depressing

Practice doesn’t always make perfect. But god damn that hasn’t stopped me from trying.

 

[giveitall]

2.75 pages of crap. Did appreciate the 4 time big ten champ info. Not much on current recruiting battles or recruits. FYI in case you don't want to waste time reading from the start. 👍