So… We should just give up and start embracing participation trophies?
I don’t think so.
No single piece of the puzzle is going to get us there. But we need to keep building the program and expecting to be on the top sooner than later.
Recruiting battles
- Thread starter rossel 33
- Start date
I don’t think so.
No single piece of the puzzle is going to get us there. But we need to keep building the program and expecting to be on the top sooner than later.
If Tom had the ability to right the ship he would have done it by now.
i hope you guys have the same expectations of yourselves as you do your sports teams.
It all starts with better recruits. There’s obviously going to be development but you need great material.
The bottom line is results and PSU is obviously getting them.
It involves everything. As you get ti higher levels in any activity the little things so much more. Everyone in a high-level is doing the basic stuff well, there’s not a single wrestler in D1 that doesn’t have good conditioning, but maybe there’s a superior way right now out there or a better way to recover.
Everyone’s gonna have the big picture down, but it’s a little tiny changes to move forward they’re gonna make a huge difference.
By again cutting weight and a different nutrition plan. Just as most combat sports do. And you're talking a pull of 8 fewer pounds for an event that doesn't have same day weigh-ins. Really not a well thought out point.
Wrong. One can easily see from wrestleastat that he didn't actually wrestle 197lbs for 5 years. 2015 he wrestle 96kg (211.6lbs). That's undisputed. Wrestlestat shows only 2 years of actual wrestling at 197. Two of his '197 years' have zero matches.
And only 10-9 RS Fr year in 2015 for such a big time recruit before his injury. Seems like a cut of 24.6 lbs. No matches 2016. No matches 2017. Then 15-2 in 2018. So 36 matches at 197 in two years compared to 31 his championship season.
Equally hard to cut weight when recovering from an injury, true?
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Also, Molinaro was a 3x NJ state champ, so that makes him a Bigger Time Recruit. Has to be discounted for that, for sure.
FYI..MSU158 is a psychopath. Don’t waste your time trying to talk sense into him.
I’ve learned over the years, if he says something really dumb, call him out once and leave, otherwise you’re going to get 4 pages of BS.
MSU can spin anything into a web of BS, always twisting and turning and it’s shocking how many people buy his BS.
He doesn’t know what the hell he’s watching when it comes to wrestling. I’ve proved this point to him MANY times back on the old Mat forums. The way I always made him look like an ass was I would get him to “bet” or predict something before it would happen. He NEVER beat me. If you wait till after something happens he can spin away.
Easy to spin after fact, not easy to walk back bets/predictions.
Back in the day we bet on an NCAA tournament picking all AAs each weight. He thought he knew so much that he threw out the bet to me and then got his ass kicked and had to concede to me.
We bet who would have better career Bull or Cenzo..he lost again
I told him Cstar would win it freshman year. He took Kem
There were a few others as well and then he stopped playing my game or would try to put all kinds of stipulations before predicting
Point is.make him bet you or predict something before it happens. Watch how wrong he is when the results finally come out. I wish I would have bet him for forum privelages.
He’s an “after the fact” guy because he’s a spinner. But if you can trick him into making a bet/prediction before it happens, you’ll always win because deep down he’s clueless
I never try to persuade him. I grew up with a family full of people who like to argue BS for the sake of arguing... who don't even believe half they say and remember even less. It's almost like he's a brother from another mother. Reminds me of home.
Done and won. Of course he had to explain why he lost. That which nobody foresaw. That which was unforeseeable.
@MSU158. Just to prove my point about calling you out before things happen..here’s a little bet for you.
If I win, for the next year, all your posts cannot be more than 1 sentence. If you win, let me know what you’d like in return.
Very simple bet..I will not be amending this bet in ANY way. Take it or leave it and the odds are in your favor.
I predict Shayne Van Ness wins NCAAs this year AND Iowa has NO champs.
If one or both don’t come true..you win. If both come true I win..
This is a NO SPIN zone. There are no “what ifs”. I don’t care if someone gets hurt, gets Covid, etc. this is my prediction.
You have the field vs Van Ness and Iowa just has to have 1 champ.
Take it or leave it. Let’s see if you have the balls to make the bet on record. This bet ONLY is issued to MSU just to prove a point
If I win, for the next year, all your posts cannot be more than 1 sentence. If you win, let me know what you’d like in return.
Very simple bet..I will not be amending this bet in ANY way. Take it or leave it and the odds are in your favor.
I predict Shayne Van Ness wins NCAAs this year AND Iowa has NO champs.
If one or both don’t come true..you win. If both come true I win..
This is a NO SPIN zone. There are no “what ifs”. I don’t care if someone gets hurt, gets Covid, etc. this is my prediction.
You have the field vs Van Ness and Iowa just has to have 1 champ.
Take it or leave it. Let’s see if you have the balls to make the bet on record. This bet ONLY is issued to MSU just to prove a point
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Like lambs to a slaughter...the fact that you 2 honestly believe I am the one out of the 3 that is delusional justifies EVERYTHING I have posted that has anything to do with PSU or either of you so far. Thank you for being this easy...
The best service I ever had at a restaurant was at a place called mama Leone’s in New York City. The waiter was just amazing, it was like he could read your mind about when to exactly approach you and ask you if you need a refill and a drink or anything else.
Many people can do a great job of waiting tables or being a great bartender, but the absolute best have something that can’t be taught. There’s just a leap in levels that most people can’t accomplish. This is whether they are coaches, athletes, or say businessman.
Gable was that kind of coach back in the day and I believe Sanderson is now. You could argue all the little details but it comes down to the results. Both were/are incredibly dominant and no one‘s going to surpass Sanderson until he just decides to leave coaching.
And when Sanderson does retire the same thing will happen at Penn State that happened in Iowa. They’ll probably more or less be the favorites to win but they won’t be as dominant. And it’s some point they’ll be another coach come along either at Penn State or another school that will do the same thing that we’ve seen in the past.
If you look at a gable left in 1997 Sanderson 2009? Twelve years of relative parity with Iowa at the top of the heap.
Arguing the details it’s just something to do to pass the time because people enjoy the activity.
Many people can do a great job of waiting tables or being a great bartender, but the absolute best have something that can’t be taught. There’s just a leap in levels that most people can’t accomplish. This is whether they are coaches, athletes, or say businessman.
Gable was that kind of coach back in the day and I believe Sanderson is now. You could argue all the little details but it comes down to the results. Both were/are incredibly dominant and no one‘s going to surpass Sanderson until he just decides to leave coaching.
And when Sanderson does retire the same thing will happen at Penn State that happened in Iowa. They’ll probably more or less be the favorites to win but they won’t be as dominant. And it’s some point they’ll be another coach come along either at Penn State or another school that will do the same thing that we’ve seen in the past.
If you look at a gable left in 1997 Sanderson 2009? Twelve years of relative parity with Iowa at the top of the heap.
Arguing the details it’s just something to do to pass the time because people enjoy the activity.
Iowa's current recruiting looks worse than it is because you got nothing, not even a single match in an Iowa singlet, from Jesuroga or Chittum, who were both blue chip recruits. Jesuroga alone in your lineup at 141 this year makes the team significantly better. I'm not going to crap on the kid for choosing to serve his country instead of playing a sport and I have nothing but the utmost respect for him personally, but it is what it is. There is still a big hole in the lineup because of it. With Chittum, the hole was plugged in the transfer portal, but just for this year until there is a hole again next year.
So I guess this means you won't take my bet? Should be a layup for you if you have any conviction.
I would almost guarantee most if not all Hawk fans would take the bet I proposed..I know you won't because you don't have any conviction of what you believe..you're not a fan..you're a spinmaster troll
First off, your memory is so woefully bad. The ONLY bet we made was picking AA's in exact or 1 off positions across the 10 weight classes. You won that by 1.5 points. You keep touting that as some "ass kicking" but every time have failed to reply when I point that out.
Now, to this point, you just made a bet offer about 2 things I literally agree with and you would actually see that if you really do follow my posts. 1.) I think Van Ness is a solid favorite at the weight. Why would I bet against him? Henson and maybe Lovett are the only 2 I think could truly challenge him and BOTH would have to be in their very best version to even have that chance. 2.) There is literally a long thread about Iowa producing NCAA Champs and how if they don't this year it is a major fail on Brands part. I was roasted because I didn't give any of their guys a realistic chance to win it all. Hell, I think I gave Ayala less than a 5% chance.
Now, the above was before that last couple of transfers, but I think Buchanan has next to no shot against Ferrari and a healthy Shapiro beats Teemer. Sadly, Caliendo is their best guy but there is no way in Hell I would pick him over Messenbrink.
So, if you really want to "gotcha" me, try this. 1.) Teemer vs. Kasak, whomever finishes higher wins. 2.) Iowa must have 2 Finalists or more.
If you want to make a bet with me so badly, we can actually come up with one that BOTH actually agree to at the start...
No bet...so just that we're 100% clear. You are saying you don't think Iowa wins 1 title even though they currently have two 1 ranked wrestlers? Great fan you are.
I didn't know you were such a fan of SVN. But still I figured I'm giving you the field against him and that plus the other layup ( I think most Hawk fans believe they will have a champ). Hell..I even believe they will have a champ, but just wanted to put you to the test
Have a nice day you proved my point..I just don't want to hear you touting anyone beating SVN or predicting Iowa with a champ since you wouldn't take the bet
Hook line sinker
Just because I am a fan doesn't mean I would bet on what I want to happen vs. what I think happens. That is several levels of STUPID.
As far as champs go, you are asking me to make a bet on them having a champ when NONE of their guys have done it before. Hell, out of all of them who is really a solid favorite, or, for that matter, even really a favorite at all?
I simply don't make bets based on emotions and I have also learned not to bet against PSU at NCAA's.
SVN hasn't won either..and I would take Teemer over Shapiro for all the marbles. Shapiro has shown time and time again he is injury prone and won't make it thru 5 matches without being dinged up or concussion. And I'd bet on anyone vs AJ out of pure disdain..can't wait till he loses
Oh and by the way..don't bullshit about our previous bets..
I did beat you in the AA picking contest, you did tell me Bull would have better career than Cenzo and you did take Kem over Star.
I've had enough MSU talk..you proved my point, you did lose those 3 I mentioned I dont want to hear the spin. You've NEVER beaten me on a prediction..never
if you're trying to look more insufferable than MSU (an incredibly high bar) you're doing a great job
I remember when you started warning 98lber about MSU you said just post once and then don't post again
but here you are continuing to post
hook line sinker
I don’t know whether to thank you or be offended. Probably both? 😉
They've known Jesuroga wasn't coming for a long time now. Maybe Petersen will be an answer for at least this year.
And Nate would be the shortest 141 of all time as well. No way Nate would've ever been a 141
Right. It's pretty far in the rearview (so is the Chittum move), but regardless, if he hadn't opted for the Navy, he'd presumably be a big piece of your lineup this year and TnT's recruiting wouldn't look as bad as it does. Is there work to do? Yes, of course, and there is a big danger right now of falling behind DT & Ok St, but there are things that were out of the team's control that make their current stable of homegrown recruits look a lot worse than they could have been.
No, but that doesn't keep Willie or Mineo from watching us anyway.
I highly encourage said competition!You've set a high bar, but you still have competition.
My long winded, non expert opinion, on the whole recruiting argument is obviously Carl is getting way more top end recruits than anyone else so he has much more room for margin on misses. That is part of his job though and he is the best in the business right now though. I really feel like T n T are very good coaches, just as the Happy Valley crew is great at coaching. I think Gable and Carl were amazing at recruiting a certain style and mentality that they were/are looking for so that their style of coaching can exploit said recruits wrestling style to maximize their potential. All the hammers have the potential to be champs with the right coaches and room. Gable didn't always get the best, but he got the best out of the ones he got. Carl is a master at this as well, like him or not. He can swing and miss with 50% of his top recruits and still ends up with a lineup full of studs, while everyone else can't miss at all. Who cares who transfers out down the road because they are already behind the PSU guy in the room so you aren't making any gains by bringing them in as transfers. T n T need to figure out a way to bring in 2 or 3 can't miss recruits a year and fill in on misses with the portal to try to narrow the gap. I really feel like they realize this now, but it is easier said than done.
Until we see improvement year after year out of recruits that enter Iowa, we will not get more. Spencer and Austin you could say made improvement during their 4 years. Name another that made a jump? Are best candidate for improving was Glazier at 97 and we NIL'd over him.
That isn’t the most limiting factor currently.
Lots of guys make jumps--Ayala and Nelson Brands come to mind. But too many progress to fringe AA, then stop--like Glazier, Siebrecht, Kennedy, Rathjen, Assad, Murin, Young, Marinelli, Turk, Wilcke, Meyer, Grothus, Dziewa, Moore, Evans....
We need to show we can develop champs. Our last champ pre-Spencer was 2017. Our last multi-time champ pre-Spencer was 2012. Thank God for Spencer, but I don't think this was the plan.
2 wrestlers - Josh Dziewa and Nick Moore are two that fit the bill of being top 20, but never made it to AA under Brands.
As far as the other 3 - Nate Moore, Broc Berge, and Nate Skonieczny, it's misleading to say they "didn't improve year to year" under Brands, and "underperformed." Here's what happened:
Nate Moore - Following a successful RS Fr year, Nate Moore got a severe Staph infection, underwent 3 surgeries, was in the ICU and had a long road back for recovery. Daniel Dennis was in his weight class, who as most know, took over and did very well under Brands. Dennis was not highly ranked at all coming out of HS. He made it to the finals of the NCCA, and eventually the Olympics.
Broc Berge - RS fr year, then left Iowa to wrestle for Minnesota
Skonieczny - Got homesick his first year, dropped out of Iowa and went back home to Ohio, without wrestling for Iowa.
I wouldn't ding a coach for wrestlers who get seriously ill, or who leave the program very early on.
My memory may be slipping like IRONBIRD's, but I don't recall calling you delusional.
(But leading with "Like lambs to slaughter" probably doesn't help your case.)
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