ADVERTISEMENT

Recruiting battles

Since you asked, here are some sources…

Evans (#5 p4p)


Marinelli (I remember him as high as 2, but I can’t find a source so here he was #3 p4p)


Kennedy #3 p4p


There’s 3 top 5 guys with 6 low AA finishes among them…. 5/5/5/5/6/7. Kennedy hasn’t developed enough to even be a starter.

As I said I agree the recruiting gap is large. I’m just saying development as been subpar as well. Give me as list of guys who showed consistent improvement throughout their time with the brands brothers. I can think of plenty more who didn’t improve or at worse regressed and finished worse as seniors than they did their first few years.
They placed 5/6/6/6/6/7. Evans placed 6th 3 years in a row.
 
Some references have been made to recruiting of top 10 guys over a longer period. Here's a summary of the last 16 years:

Iowa:
2010 Evans #4
2011 0
2012 0
2013 0
2014 0
2015 Kemerer #8
2016 Marinelli #2
2017 Lee #2 Warner #7
2018 0
2019 0
2020 Kennedy #3
2021 Ayala #9
2022 0
2023 Kueter #3
2024 Ferrari #1
2025 DeLuca #8

PSU:
2010 A Alton #2 D Alton #8
2011 McIntosh #1 #3 Megaludis
2012 Guilibon #3
2013 Rutherford #3
2014 Nolf #4 Nevills #5 Nickal #7
2015 Joseph #5
2016 Hall #1 Suriano #2 Manville #5
2017 N Lee #4 Berge #6
2018 Brooks #2
2019 Kerkvliet #1 Starocci #9
2020 Bartlett #4 Howard #7
2021 Van Ness #1 Facundo #3
2022 Haines #9
2023 Barr #6
2024 Lilledahl #2 Sealey #5 Ryder #6 Gibson #8 Conner Mirasola #9
2025 Blaze #1 Duke #2

It's pretty obvious that looking back over 15 years, Iowa lags badly. Iowa gets a top 10 about every 2 years. Iowa got their first #1 ever under Brands with Ferrari, who has yet to start. PSU averages over 2 top 10 guys every year.

clw421 mentioned Nick Moore, Nate Moore, Skonieczny, Gilman. Also mentioned were Lofthouse, Gambrel, Cassioppi, Brooks, Dziewa, Assad, Meyer, Telford, Stoll and Sorenson. None were top 10 p4p.

One last point (obvious, sorry) .... some wrestlers finish HS as genuine world beaters, head and shoulders above most everyone. D Taylor, L Stieber, Kyle Snyder, Z Valencia, Hall, Fix, S Lee, Gable Steveson, Brooks, Kerkvliet, Blaze all fit this mold. These are guys who are top ranked in their weight class, often with FS world medals (including gold), and generally top 1 or 2 p4p.

Spencer Lee was really Iowa's only one in that very elite list. Marinelli was #2 p4p, but #2 in his weight class, but beaten soundly by Mark Hall at the end of HS. Hall, a consensus #1 p4p and with multiple World gold FS medals, went to PSU, natch.

PSU, on the other hand, has had numerous recruits in that very elite group besides Hall.

So, imho, it's not so much coaching style that is hindering Iowa, any more than it is hindering tOSU, Minnesota, ISU, Oklahoma St or any other school. It's that no one is consistently getting elite wrestlers like PSU. Maybe David Taylor can start pulling some away from PSU, we'll see.

Give Iowa one or two Spencer Lees every year, and Brands "coaching" would look outstanding.
 
Last edited:
1) We're not getting enough top 10 pfp.

2) With some exceptions, the top guys we do get are just not mentally/physically dynamic/athletic enough for today's wrestling landscape. Not all #3, #5, ranked guys are created equal....

3) Debatable whether we under-develop or have more injuries compared to others, but because of point #1 and #2, it's harder to 'develop' champs or very high placers.

The above is true for most teams not named PSU. Still love our team and think TnT are working hard to adapt, only question is whether it will be as fast/successful as fans hope.
 
Some references have been made to recruiting of top 10 guys over a longer period. Here's a summary of the last 16 years:

Iowa:
2010 Evans #4
2011 0
2012 0
2013 0
2014 0
2015 Kemerer #8
2016 Marinelli #2
2017 Lee #2 Warner #7
2018 0
2019 0
2020 Kennedy #3
2021 Ayala #9
2022 0
2023 Kueter #3
2024 Ferrari #1
2025 DeLuca #8

PSU:
2010 A Alton #2 D Alton #8
2011 McIntosh #1 #3 Megaludis
2012 Guilibon #3
2013 Rutherford #3
2014 Nolf #4 Nevills #5 Nickal #7
2015 Joseph #5
2016 Hall #1 Suriano #2 Manville #5
2017 N Lee #4 Berge #6
2018 Brooks #2
2019 Kerkvliet #1 Starocci #9
2020 Bartlett #4 Howard #7
2021 Van Ness #1 Facundo #3
2022 Haines #9
2023 Barr #6
2024 Lilledahl #2 Sealey #5 Ryder #6 Gibson #8 Conner Mirasola #9
2025 Blaze #1 Duke #2

It's pretty obvious that looking back over 15 years, Iowa lags badly. Iowa gets a top 10 about every 2 years. Iowa got their first #1 ever under Brands with Ferrari, who has yet to start. PSU averages over 2 top 10 guys every year.

clw421 mentioned Nick Moore, Nate Moore, Skonieczny, Gilman. Also mentioned were Lofthouse, Gambrel, Cassioppi, Brooks, Dziewa, Assad, Meyer, Telford, Stoll and Sorenson. None were top 10 p4p.

One last point (obvious, sorry) .... some wrestlers finish HS as genuine world beaters, head and shoulders above most everyone. D Taylor, L Stieber, Kyle Snyder, Z Valencia, Hall, Fix, S Lee, Gable Steveson, Brooks, Kerkvliet, Blaze all fit this mold. These are guys who are top ranked in their weight class, often with FS world medals (including gold), and generally top 1 or 2 p4p.

Spencer Lee was really Iowa's only one in that very elite list. Marinelli was #2 p4p, but #2 in his weight class, but beaten soundly by Mark Hall at the end of HS. Hall, a consensus #1 p4p and with multiple World gold FS medals, went to PSU, natch.

PSU, on the other hand, has had numerous recruits in that very elite group besides Hall.

So, imho, it's not so much coaching style that is hindering Iowa, any more than it is hindering tOSU, Minnesota, ISU, Oklahoma St or any other school. It's that no one is consistently getting elite wrestlers like PSU. Maybe David Taylor can start pulling some away from PSU, we'll see.

Give Iowa one or two Spencer Lees every year, and Brands "coaching" would look outstanding.

Glad to see you Rossel. I used to have the patience for this topic that come up every year but just don't anymore lol.
 
Some references have been made to recruiting of top 10 guys over a longer period. Here's a summary of the last 16 years:

Iowa:
2010 Evans #4
2011 0
2012 0
2013 0
2014 0
2015 Kemerer #8
2016 Marinelli #2
2017 Lee #2 Warner #7
2018 0
2019 0
2020 Kennedy #3
2021 Ayala #9
2022 0
2023 Kueter #3
2024 Ferrari #1
2025 DeLuca #8

PSU:
2010 A Alton #2 D Alton #8
2011 McIntosh #1 #3 Megaludis
2012 Guilibon #3
2013 Rutherford #3
2014 Nolf #4 Nevills #5 Nickal #7
2015 Joseph #5
2016 Hall #1 Suriano #2 Manville #5
2017 N Lee #4 Berge #6
2018 Brooks #2
2019 Kerkvliet #1 Starocci #9
2020 Bartlett #4 Howard #7
2021 Van Ness #1 Facundo #3
2022 Haines #9
2023 Barr #6
2024 Lilledahl #2 Sealey #5 Ryder #6 Gibson #8 Conner Mirasola #9
2025 Blaze #1 Duke #2

It's pretty obvious that looking back over 15 years, Iowa lags badly. Iowa gets a top 10 about every 2 years. Iowa got their first #1 ever under Brands with Ferrari, who has yet to start. PSU averages over 2 top 10 guys every year.

clw421 mentioned Nick Moore, Nate Moore, Skonieczny, Gilman. Also mentioned were Lofthouse, Gambrel, Cassioppi, Brooks, Dziewa, Assad, Meyer, Telford, Stoll and Sorenson. None were top 10 p4p.

One last point (obvious, sorry) .... some wrestlers finish HS as genuine world beaters, head and shoulders above most everyone. D Taylor, L Stieber, Kyle Snyder, Z Valencia, Hall, Fix, S Lee, Gable Steveson, Brooks, Kerkvliet, Blaze all fit this mold. These are guys who are top ranked in their weight class, often with FS world medals (including gold), and generally top 1 or 2 p4p.

Spencer Lee was really Iowa's only one in that very elite list. Marinelli was #2 p4p, but #2 in his weight class, but beaten soundly by Mark Hall at the end of HS. Hall, a consensus #1 p4p and with multiple World gold FS medals, went to PSU, natch.

PSU, on the other hand, has had numerous recruits in that very elite group besides Hall.

So, imho, it's not so much coaching style that is hindering Iowa, any more than it is hindering tOSU, Minnesota, ISU, Oklahoma St or any other school. It's that no one is consistently getting elite wrestlers like PSU. Maybe David Taylor can start pulling some away from PSU, we'll see.

Give Iowa one or two Spencer Lees every year, and Brands "coaching" would look outstanding.
Not blaming you, but Mason Gibson as the #8 ranked recruit in the 2024 class? That's laughable. He had some injuries and finished 4th at the PA state tournament as a senior and ended his senior season ranked like 13th nationally in his weight class (132 lb). Besides, Gibson flipped to Rutgers in April 2024; never went to PSU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: USPMAN
Some references have been made to recruiting of top 10 guys over a longer period. Here's a summary of the last 16 years:

Iowa:
2010 Evans #4
2011 0
2012 0
2013 0
2014 0
2015 Kemerer #8
2016 Marinelli #2
2017 Lee #2 Warner #7
2018 0
2019 0
2020 Kennedy #3
2021 Ayala #9
2022 0
2023 Kueter #3
2024 Ferrari #1
2025 DeLuca #8

PSU:
2010 A Alton #2 D Alton #8
2011 McIntosh #1 #3 Megaludis
2012 Guilibon #3
2013 Rutherford #3
2014 Nolf #4 Nevills #5 Nickal #7
2015 Joseph #5
2016 Hall #1 Suriano #2 Manville #5
2017 N Lee #4 Berge #6
2018 Brooks #2
2019 Kerkvliet #1 Starocci #9
2020 Bartlett #4 Howard #7
2021 Van Ness #1 Facundo #3
2022 Haines #9
2023 Barr #6
2024 Lilledahl #2 Sealey #5 Ryder #6 Gibson #8 Conner Mirasola #9
2025 Blaze #1 Duke #2

It's pretty obvious that looking back over 15 years, Iowa lags badly. Iowa gets a top 10 about every 2 years. Iowa got their first #1 ever under Brands with Ferrari, who has yet to start. PSU averages over 2 top 10 guys every year.

clw421 mentioned Nick Moore, Nate Moore, Skonieczny, Gilman. Also mentioned were Lofthouse, Gambrel, Cassioppi, Brooks, Dziewa, Assad, Meyer, Telford, Stoll and Sorenson. None were top 10 p4p.

One last point (obvious, sorry) .... some wrestlers finish HS as genuine world beaters, head and shoulders above most everyone. D Taylor, L Stieber, Kyle Snyder, Z Valencia, Hall, Fix, S Lee, Gable Steveson, Brooks, Kerkvliet, Blaze all fit this mold. These are guys who are top ranked in their weight class, often with FS world medals (including gold), and generally top 1 or 2 p4p.

Spencer Lee was really Iowa's only one in that very elite list. Marinelli was #2 p4p, but #2 in his weight class, but beaten soundly by Mark Hall at the end of HS. Hall, a consensus #1 p4p and with multiple World gold FS medals, went to PSU, natch.

PSU, on the other hand, has had numerous recruits in that very elite group besides Hall.

So, imho, it's not so much coaching style that is hindering Iowa, any more than it is hindering tOSU, Minnesota, ISU, Oklahoma St or any other school. It's that no one is consistently getting elite wrestlers like PSU. Maybe David Taylor can start pulling some away from PSU, we'll see.

Give Iowa one or two Spencer Lees every year, and Brands "coaching" would look outstanding.
and here you have it!!! This is what I have been saying and the numbers, do not lie! TY for posting!!!
 
Your point is NOT very good outside "F*** st recruits better." The 1st guy you mention SUPERMAN LEE IS the entire point!!! IOWA had ONE SL!!!! He was the #1 or 2 P4P kid coming out of HS AND he had a bad knee!!! I do not have the facts in front of me, but how many kids like this has Krailuer had? 10-12 more???

Very simple MATH my friend!!! Now injuries did seem to hit IOWA hard, and hopefully that was some bad luck and some changes have been made? The other BIG thing that I see, is ADDING MUSCLE!!! Whatever STRENGTH TRAINING IOWA is doing???? Is NOT WORKING!!!

F*** st kids are adding weight like crazy!!! Please see the ALL-STAR Classic!!! You can make your own judgement as to what is taking place over there? REGARDLESS, OUR guys are NOT doing what needs to be done!!! Krueter is this years biggest head scratcher for me!!! He should be 20-30 or more pounds heavier by now, and if he was. He just might beat EVERYONE including KerKin AND Gable!!!
How nice it would be to live in your delusional universe
 
  • Like
Reactions: el dub
Some references have been made to recruiting of top 10 guys over a longer period. Here's a summary of the last 16 years:

Iowa:
2010 Evans #4
2011 0
2012 0
2013 0
2014 0
2015 Kemerer #8
2016 Marinelli #2
2017 Lee #2 Warner #7
2018 0
2019 0
2020 Kennedy #3
2021 Ayala #9
2022 0
2023 Kueter #3
2024 Ferrari #1
2025 DeLuca #8

PSU:
2010 A Alton #2 D Alton #8
2011 McIntosh #1 #3 Megaludis
2012 Guilibon #3
2013 Rutherford #3
2014 Nolf #4 Nevills #5 Nickal #7
2015 Joseph #5
2016 Hall #1 Suriano #2 Manville #5
2017 N Lee #4 Berge #6
2018 Brooks #2
2019 Kerkvliet #1 Starocci #9
2020 Bartlett #4 Howard #7
2021 Van Ness #1 Facundo #3
2022 Haines #9
2023 Barr #6
2024 Lilledahl #2 Sealey #5 Ryder #6 Gibson #8 Conner Mirasola #9
2025 Blaze #1 Duke #2

It's pretty obvious that looking back over 15 years, Iowa lags badly. Iowa gets a top 10 about every 2 years. Iowa got their first #1 ever under Brands with Ferrari, who has yet to start. PSU averages over 2 top 10 guys every year.

clw421 mentioned Nick Moore, Nate Moore, Skonieczny, Gilman. Also mentioned were Lofthouse, Gambrel, Cassioppi, Brooks, Dziewa, Assad, Meyer, Telford, Stoll and Sorenson. None were top 10 p4p.

One last point (obvious, sorry) .... some wrestlers finish HS as genuine world beaters, head and shoulders above most everyone. D Taylor, L Stieber, Kyle Snyder, Z Valencia, Hall, Fix, S Lee, Gable Steveson, Brooks, Kerkvliet, Blaze all fit this mold. These are guys who are top ranked in their weight class, often with FS world medals (including gold), and generally top 1 or 2 p4p.

Spencer Lee was really Iowa's only one in that very elite list. Marinelli was #2 p4p, but #2 in his weight class, but beaten soundly by Mark Hall at the end of HS. Hall, a consensus #1 p4p and with multiple World gold FS medals, went to PSU, natch.

PSU, on the other hand, has had numerous recruits in that very elite group besides Hall.

So, imho, it's not so much coaching style that is hindering Iowa, any more than it is hindering tOSU, Minnesota, ISU, Oklahoma St or any other school. It's that no one is consistently getting elite wrestlers like PSU. Maybe David Taylor can start pulling some away from PSU, we'll see.

Give Iowa one or two Spencer Lees every year, and Brands "coaching" would look outstanding.
psu gets way more...

but they are 11 for 23 and iowa is 1 for 7 (national champions through 2022 class)
 
Since you asked, here are some sources…

Evans (#5 p4p)


Marinelli (I remember him as high as 2, but I can’t find a source so here he was #3 p4p)


Kennedy #3 p4p


There’s 3 top 5 guys with 6 low AA finishes among them…. 5/5/5/5/6/7. Kennedy hasn’t developed enough to even be a starter.

As I said I agree the recruiting gap is large. I’m just saying development as been subpar as well. Give me as list of guys who showed consistent improvement throughout their time with the brands brothers. I can think of plenty more who didn’t improve or at worse regressed and finished worse as seniors than they did their first few years.
Thanks for these sources. Fun to re-read.

Coupla things...

1. This is my favorite topic to beat like a dead horse.

2. Re-reading those articles, it reminds me that Cael was the first to understand the mathematics of top-10 pfp. Everyone else, including the wrestling media, was using Top 100 as the recruiting benchmark, as if #99 was the same as #1. (Ooo, they got 7 Top-100 guys--they're the #1 class.) Nobody was doing the math--except Cael.

3. I don't know how you identify it, but some guys WANT to be NCAA champs at all costs, and some don't. Tom and Terry definitely did, but I'm not sure many/most of our recruits really did/do. It's clear in their lack of progression. Terry went from back-up 118-pounder to 126-pound champ in one season. That's fire in the belly.

4. Like everyone else, I would much prefer to see great recruiting and great development over buying portal talent. But I was looking at the SD State matches and realizing how much more I enjoy watching Parco, Caliendo, Teemer, and Buchanan than Siebrecht and Glazier. I'm still rooting for them, but on SDSU's team. And I think it may pay dividends for the other guys in the lineup by--hopefully upping their own game. (Nelson Brands excluded, unfortunately.) Bottom line, I like watching those guys and I'm glad they're here, regardless of how they got here.

That is all for this edition of "Beat That Horse."
 
Thanks for these sources. Fun to re-read.

Coupla things...

1. This is my favorite topic to beat like a dead horse.

2. Re-reading those articles, it reminds me that Cael was the first to understand the mathematics of top-10 pfp. Everyone else, including the wrestling media, was using Top 100 as the recruiting benchmark, as if #99 was the same as #1. (Ooo, they got 7 Top-100 guys--they're the #1 class.) Nobody was doing the math--except Cael.

3. I don't know how you identify it, but some guys WANT to be NCAA champs at all costs, and some don't. Tom and Terry definitely did, but I'm not sure many/most of our recruits really did/do. It's clear in their lack of progression. Terry went from back-up 118-pounder to 126-pound champ in one season. That's fire in the belly.

4. Like everyone else, I would much prefer to see great recruiting and great development over buying portal talent. But I was looking at the SD State matches and realizing how much more I enjoy watching Parco, Caliendo, Teemer, and Buchanan than Siebrecht and Glazier. I'm still rooting for them, but on SDSU's team. And I think it may pay dividends for the other guys in the lineup by--hopefully upping their own game. (Nelson Brands excluded, unfortunately.) Bottom line, I like watching those guys and I'm glad they're here, regardless of how they got here.

That is all for this edition of "Beat That Horse."
I remember those days when top 100 was the benchmark. It didn’t make sense to me then and it sure doesn’t now. But I guess they have to talk about something. There’s a finite number of top ten kids. Most programs never sniff that level of talent in their rooms.
 
Again, I’m not arguing that they don’t get a lot better recruits, just the talent we do get underperforms compared to their p4p ranking more often than not. When you have p4p top 20 guys who don’t even AA in 4 years, that’s a problem, and it happens frequently under the brands brothers. I don’t need anyone to agree with me. Kueter and Ferrari are both #1 p4p. We’ll see how many championships they end up with. Hopefully 5 or 6 between the two of them and when that happens I will excitedly eat crow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vhsalum and el dub
Thanks for these sources. Fun to re-read.

Coupla things...

1. This is my favorite topic to beat like a dead horse.

2. Re-reading those articles, it reminds me that Cael was the first to understand the mathematics of top-10 pfp. Everyone else, including the wrestling media, was using Top 100 as the recruiting benchmark, as if #99 was the same as #1. (Ooo, they got 7 Top-100 guys--they're the #1 class.) Nobody was doing the math--except Cael.

3. I don't know how you identify it, but some guys WANT to be NCAA champs at all costs, and some don't. Tom and Terry definitely did, but I'm not sure many/most of our recruits really did/do. It's clear in their lack of progression. Terry went from back-up 118-pounder to 126-pound champ in one season. That's fire in the belly.

4. Like everyone else, I would much prefer to see great recruiting and great development over buying portal talent. But I was looking at the SD State matches and realizing how much more I enjoy watching Parco, Caliendo, Teemer, and Buchanan than Siebrecht and Glazier. I'm still rooting for them, but on SDSU's team. And I think it may pay dividends for the other guys in the lineup by--hopefully upping their own game. (Nelson Brands excluded, unfortunately.) Bottom line, I like watching those guys and I'm glad they're here, regardless of how they got here.

That is all for this edition of "Beat That Horse."

Tarp, your #2 point is so true. A classic example of that was the class of 2016. FLO ranked NC State with the #1 recruiting class, edging out PSU

2016 NC State recruits:

#4 N Reenan
#6 Hidley
#42 D Bullard
#43 T Bullard
#66 T Wilson

2016 PSU recruits:

#1 Mark Hall
#2 Suriano
#5 Manville

FLO explained, NC St was #1 because .... wait for it .... "five top 100 recruits."

FLO sometimes ranked Iowa's recruiting class too high, for the same misguided reason. 2012 FLO ranked Iowa as the #1 recruiting class. Iowa got no one ranked in the top 10, and no individual was ranked #1 in their weight class. But they had "5 in the top 100." The highest ranked Iowa recruit was #15 Skonieczny (who never made it), #16 Gilman, #20 Brooks, #23 Clark, #41 Meyer. Credit Brands with coaching Gilman (#3 in his weight class) and Clark (#9) to great success, much better than #3 p4p and top in his weight class Guilibon, who ended up at PSU.

Last, Kueter was listed at #3 most of the year, and moved up to #2 when Carroll (who beat Kueter, and not close), moved up to 285.
 
Some references have been made to recruiting of top 10 guys over a longer period. Here's a summary of the last 16 years:

Iowa:
2010 Evans #4
2011 0
2012 0
2013 0
2014 0
2015 Kemerer #8
2016 Marinelli #2
2017 Lee #2 Warner #7
2018 0
2019 0
2020 Kennedy #3
2021 Ayala #9
2022 0
2023 Kueter #3
2024 Ferrari #1
2025 DeLuca #8

PSU:
2010 A Alton #2 D Alton #8
2011 McIntosh #1 #3 Megaludis
2012 Guilibon #3
2013 Rutherford #3
2014 Nolf #4 Nevills #5 Nickal #7
2015 Joseph #5
2016 Hall #1 Suriano #2 Manville #5
2017 N Lee #4 Berge #6
2018 Brooks #2
2019 Kerkvliet #1 Starocci #9
2020 Bartlett #4 Howard #7
2021 Van Ness #1 Facundo #3
2022 Haines #9
2023 Barr #6
2024 Lilledahl #2 Sealey #5 Ryder #6 Gibson #8 Conner Mirasola #9
2025 Blaze #1 Duke #2

It's pretty obvious that looking back over 15 years, Iowa lags badly. Iowa gets a top 10 about every 2 years. Iowa got their first #1 ever under Brands with Ferrari, who has yet to start. PSU averages over 2 top 10 guys every year.

clw421 mentioned Nick Moore, Nate Moore, Skonieczny, Gilman. Also mentioned were Lofthouse, Gambrel, Cassioppi, Brooks, Dziewa, Assad, Meyer, Telford, Stoll and Sorenson. None were top 10 p4p.

One last point (obvious, sorry) .... some wrestlers finish HS as genuine world beaters, head and shoulders above most everyone. D Taylor, L Stieber, Kyle Snyder, Z Valencia, Hall, Fix, S Lee, Gable Steveson, Brooks, Kerkvliet, Blaze all fit this mold. These are guys who are top ranked in their weight class, often with FS world medals (including gold), and generally top 1 or 2 p4p.

Spencer Lee was really Iowa's only one in that very elite list. Marinelli was #2 p4p, but #2 in his weight class, but beaten soundly by Mark Hall at the end of HS. Hall, a consensus #1 p4p and with multiple World gold FS medals, went to PSU, natch.

PSU, on the other hand, has had numerous recruits in that very elite group besides Hall.

So, imho, it's not so much coaching style that is hindering Iowa, any more than it is hindering tOSU, Minnesota, ISU, Oklahoma St or any other school. It's that no one is consistently getting elite wrestlers like PSU. Maybe David Taylor can start pulling some away from PSU, we'll see.

Give Iowa one or two Spencer Lees every year, and Brands "coaching" would look outstanding.
so 10 to 31. Wow. Even if half those guys flamed out it would still be 15 hammers. Jesus I didn't think I could feel worse about Iowas recruiting.
 
How nice it would be to live in your delusional universe
Stop hittin the pipe and maybe your sorry ass world will get better!?!?!?
And stop using CassarSalad as an example of development!!! Kid was a big time recruit who got hurt as I recall and dropped some. Did not do much till he got on the shEEEt and moved to heavy! PERIOD!!!
 
When you have p4p top 20 guys who don’t even AA in 4 years, that’s a problem, and it happens frequently under the brands brothers.
Who hasn’t AA’d in their career from the top 20 p4p under the Brands? I don’t pay too much attention to recruiting rankings so was curious some of the names besides #15 Skonieczny that rossell mentioned. Only recent one that comes to mind is Kennedy but he has 2 years left.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobhaywood
Who hasn’t AA’d in their career from the top 20 p4p under the Brands? I don’t pay too much attention to recruiting rankings so was curious some of the names besides #15 Skonieczny that rossell mentioned. Only recent one that comes to mind is Kennedy but he has 2 years left.
kennedy still has two years left???
 
Stop hittin the pipe and maybe your sorry ass world will get better!?!?!?

And stop using CassarSalad as an example of development!!! Kid was a big time recruit who got hurt as I recall and dropped some. Did not do much till he got on the shEEEt and moved to heavy! PERIOD!!!

If I recall, Cassar was from NJ and only medaled once in high school.
 
Last edited:
I'm fairly certain he was not a big recruit out of high school.

This is from Wiki:

High school​

Raised in Rocky Hill, New Jersey,[2] Cassar started wrestling at around age 7 or 8.[3] He attended Montgomery High School in New Jersey. During his freshman, sophomore and junior years, he never qualified for state and compiled a record of 73 wins and 30 losses. In his senior year, he finally qualified for state and became the fourth person in the history of the state to win the tournament after never qualifying before. He compiled an undefeated record of 43 wins and no losses in his final season and an 116–30 record overall.[4][5
 
This is from Wiki:

High school​

Raised in Rocky Hill, New Jersey,[2] Cassar started wrestling at around age 7 or 8.[3] He attended Montgomery High School in New Jersey. During his freshman, sophomore and junior years, he never qualified for state and compiled a record of 73 wins and 30 losses. In his senior year, he finally qualified for state and became the fourth person in the history of the state to win the tournament after never qualifying before. He compiled an undefeated record of 43 wins and no losses in his final season and an 116–30 record overall.[4][5
so he is a Jesse Whitmer or Daniel Dennis that can sometimes happen when wrestling on a loaded squad that is not dependent on them to win it all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grip220 and vhsalum
Who hasn’t AA’d in their career from the top 20 p4p under the Brands? I don’t pay too much attention to recruiting rankings so was curious some of the names besides #15 Skonieczny that rossell mentioned. Only recent one that comes to mind is Kennedy but he has 2 years left.
That I can think of

Josh dziewa
Nick Moore
Nate Moore
Broc Berge
Skonieczny

Plenty others underperformed their ranking or didn’t improve year to year
 
  • Like
Reactions: el dub
a big time recruit who got hurt as I recall and dropped some ... Did not do much

You recall incorrectly and may wish to investigate treatments for memory loss.

Cassar was not a big time recruit. Cassar got hurt during a freestyle event after having already been in the PSU room (not as a recruit). Cassar beat #1 Kollin Moore (which is more than not much) before bulking up to heavyweight.

I'm fairly certain he was not a big recruit out of high school.

You are correct, sir.
 
it’s no secret Carl is a snake and will sell his soul to get somebody. He gets the best of the best every year. You may not like it(I know I don’t) but who honestly knows what the answer is. Please tell me who could do better. Taylor maybe but that’s off the table. Burroughs does not want to coach, Dake is not the right fit and I don’t believe he is interested in coaching as well. All we can do is pray Spencer wants to coach at some point. Tom and the crew have adapted more than most think.
 
it’s no secret Carl is a snake and will sell his soul to get somebody. He gets the best of the best every year. You may not like it(I know I don’t) but who honestly knows what the answer is. Please tell me who could do better. Taylor maybe but that’s off the table. Burroughs does not want to coach, Dake is not the right fit and I don’t believe he is interested in coaching as well. All we can do is pray Spencer wants to coach at some point. Tom and the crew have adapted more than most think.

I would bet Dake ends up in coaching. Not much he can really do outside of it, to be honest. He's been so solely focused on competition, he really doesn't have much outside interests. Plus his parents were coaches.
 
You recall incorrectly and may wish to investigate treatments for memory loss.

Cassar was not a big time recruit. Cassar got hurt during a freestyle event after having already been in the PSU room (not as a recruit). Cassar beat #1 Kollin Moore (which is more than not much) before bulking up to heavyweight.



You are correct, sir.
You are one twisted demented FOOL!!! Guy above just posted he went undefeated and won a NJ state title as a senior. Clearly indicating he jumped levels. I believe that he also made some noise in FS before college?

Beating Moore is nice, what else did he do before getting on the great krailures F*** st special source???

ALSO- please defer from the BS that he wasn't taking something!!!! He reported that he gained 40 pounds! Now some will say, well a sucked out college kid can do that, which may be true. BUT- they also reported he was fighting in MMA at 205 AFTER college??? GEE i wonder how that happened!?!??! I will tell you how it happened. It DOESN'T happen!!! Go from wrestling 197, to 240, to 205 in a matter of THREEEEEE years or so?????
 
You are one twisted demented FOOL!!! Guy above just posted he went undefeated and won a NJ state title as a senior. Clearly indicating he jumped levels. I believe that he also made some noise in FS before college?

Beating Moore is nice, what else did he do before getting on the great krailures F*** st special source???

ALSO- please defer from the BS that he wasn't taking something!!!! He reported that he gained 40 pounds! Now some will say, well a sucked out college kid can do that, which may be true. BUT- they also reported he was fighting in MMA at 205 AFTER college??? GEE i wonder how that happened!?!??! I will tell you how it happened. It DOESN'T happen!!! Go from wrestling 197, to 240, to 205 in a matter of THREEEEEE years or so?????

IRON,

I'm not sure if you've ever seen a college weight room, with college S&C coaches. It's really not that hard. And he was cutting a ton to get to 197. So when he says he put on forty pounds - he just means from the weight class. He wrestled 195 his senior year. The year he won NCAAs he weighed in at 238.

He was NOT good in high school. He won 1 state title, but had never even qualified for the state tournament prior to that. And he won a weight that wasn't even good. No ranked wrestlers, and he didn't wrestle ANYONE. Didn't go to any tough tournaments, didn't wrestle at the beast, didn't wrestle a ranked wrestler. So to answer your question - before he entered PSU, he did nothing, had beaten no one.

Carl gets credit for developing Cassar and even Rasheed to a certain degree. Neither were top-ranked recruits and no one was looking at them as future starters for NCAAs. Carl also gets credit for the misses. Berge, Gulibon, Nevills, the deterioration of the Suriano relationship.

And you clearly haven't seen these NFL players that go from 325 to 205 and look like half of the human beings they were when they played football. And the NFL has one of the most stringent drug testing programs, so you can't say they're just all on the sauce.

You lose this argument. Just leave it alone.
 
You recall incorrectly and may wish to investigate treatments for memory loss.

Cassar was not a big time recruit. Cassar got hurt during a freestyle event after having already been in the PSU room (not as a recruit). Cassar beat #1 Kollin Moore (which is more than not much) before bulking up to heavyweight.



You are correct, sir.
This is the most disingenuous post of your illustrious career, and that is really saying something.

Saying Cassar was not a "big time recruit" is beyond laughable. Just because he wasn't super high in the pound for pound rankings, anyone with a brain that watched him wrestle his senior year knew how good he was. The guy went something like 43-0 in dominant fashion to win arguably one of the harderst top 2 or 3 state championships in the country. Mind you, like CA, NJ is a 1 division state, so the tournament isn't watered down in the slighest like many other tough states that have multiple divisions.

On top of that Cassar won the Junior WTT not long after graduation and went on to take 8th at Junior Worlds. Are we saying Cael developed him from obscurity into the best guy in the US around his weight in a couple of months? Come on...
 
IRON,

I'm not sure if you've ever seen a college weight room, with college S&C coaches. It's really not that hard. And he was cutting a ton to get to 197. So when he says he put on forty pounds - he just means from the weight class. He wrestled 195 his senior year. The year he won NCAAs he weighed in at 238.

He was NOT good in high school. He won 1 state title, but had never even qualified for the state tournament prior to that. And he won a weight that wasn't even good. No ranked wrestlers, and he didn't wrestle ANYONE. Didn't go to any tough tournaments, didn't wrestle at the beast, didn't wrestle a ranked wrestler. So to answer your question - before he entered PSU, he did nothing, had beaten no one.

Carl gets credit for developing Cassar and even Rasheed to a certain degree. Neither were top-ranked recruits and no one was looking at them as future starters for NCAAs. Carl also gets credit for the misses. Berge, Gulibon, Nevills, the deterioration of the Suriano relationship.

And you clearly haven't seen these NFL players that go from 325 to 205 and look like half of the human beings they were when they played football. And the NFL has one of the most stringent drug testing programs, so you can't say they're just all on the sauce.

You lose this argument. Just leave it alone.
This is a brutally terrible argument from a guy that professes to be a wrestling pundit. Cassar was undefeated his senior year and dominated a very tough State Tournament. On top of it he very quickly went on to win Junior Nationals and go on to Junior Worlds, taking 8th. Guys that are "NOT good in high school" don't do that....

Mind you, I am not arguing that "rankers" didn't have him very high as a recruit. I am simply pointing out that he was VERY GOOD coming out of High School and just because he didn't have the early High School dominance that is usually necessary to get someone ranked top 10 lb4lb, doesn't mean he wasn't that good by the time he came out of High School and I am definitely arguing his senior year results along with Junior Nationals and Worlds prove that to be true...
 
This is the most disingenuous post of your illustrious career, and that is really saying something.

Saying Cassar was not a "big time recruit" is beyond laughable. Just because he wasn't super high in the pound for pound rankings, anyone with a brain that watched him wrestle his senior year knew how good he was. The guy went something like 43-0 in dominant fashion to win arguably one of the harderst top 2 or 3 state championships in the country. Mind you, like CA, NJ is a 1 division state, so the tournament isn't watered down in the slighest like many other tough states that have multiple divisions.

On top of that Cassar won the Junior WTT not long after graduation and went on to take 8th at Junior Worlds. Are we saying Cael developed him from obscurity into the best guy in the US around his weight in a couple of months? Come on...

Here is an article from several years back:

Cael's Plan - Anthony Cassar's Journey
By Michael Eisenhauer

Penn State is known as the program where wrestling is fun. Opposing fans sarcastically refer to it as such, incredulous as to how “fun” translates to winning. Nittany Lion loyalists can’t get enough of their favorite team’s approach, and how they’ve carved their place in history by treading a different path.

Yet, for all the games of dodgeball and soccer that grace the Lorenzo Wrestling Complex, there’s one element of Cael’s regime that is undeniably cutthroat. Ever since the GOAT of college wrestling arrived in Happy Valley, his approach to recruiting has never changed. It doesn’t matter who’s already on the roster. Cael will always try to bring the best of the best to Penn State.

There are, of course, casualties as a result of this practice. There have been numerous examples during Cael’s tenure of decorated wrestlers either being recruited over, or being thrust into a fierce competition with one of their teammates for a chance to represent the school in Rec Hall and NCAA’s.

The constant influx of state champs, fargo champs and world team members means Penn State wrestlers can never rest on their laurels. They won’t just be tested by wrestlers from other schools. They’ll be constantly harried by those in their own room.

Jimmy Gulibon committed less than a year after Jordan Conaway joined the program. Robbie Howard signed on before Brody Teske had even begun his freshman season. Daniel Kerkvliet transferred to Penn State after Seth Nevills had devoted a year of his life to training in Happy Valley. Winning eight team titles in nine years is unfathomably difficult. The list of those who have been caught in the crossfire over the course of the last decade goes on and on, but no wrestler has been caught in a maelstrom of internal struggles more than Anthony Cassar.

Cassar came to Penn State as unheralded as any recruit in the program’s storied history. A one time state qualifier in New Jersey, he had shown mild promise by winning at title at 195 during his senior season, but he wasn’t even a footnote in a class containing the blue chip, can’t miss trio of Nolf, Nickal and Nevills. To most Cassar was filler–a room guy who would never see the mat in a match of consequence. The fact that he managed to make the Junior World team in the summer of 2015 poked holes in that supposition, but a shoulder injury, and the presence of Morgan Macintosh, who was entering his senior season seven months removed from a third place finish at NCAA’s, meant Anthony wouldn’t be sniffing the starting lineup anytime soon.

Anthony Cassar earns a spot on the Junior World team on his very first attempt

Cassar’s only choice was to bide his time. He spent the 2016 season rehabbing and wrestled unattached the following year. It wasn’t until 2018 that he got his first chance to shine before the Rec Hall crowd. It was, however, under rather tumultuous circumstances. Where 149, 157, 165, 174 and 184 unquestionably belonged to Zain, Nolf, Cenzo, Mark Hall and Bo respectively, the situation at 197 was far more muddled.

Part 1 of 2.
 
Here is an article from several years back:

Cael's Plan - Anthony Cassar's Journey
By Michael Eisenhauer

Penn State is known as the program where wrestling is fun. Opposing fans sarcastically refer to it as such, incredulous as to how “fun” translates to winning. Nittany Lion loyalists can’t get enough of their favorite team’s approach, and how they’ve carved their place in history by treading a different path.

Yet, for all the games of dodgeball and soccer that grace the Lorenzo Wrestling Complex, there’s one element of Cael’s regime that is undeniably cutthroat. Ever since the GOAT of college wrestling arrived in Happy Valley, his approach to recruiting has never changed. It doesn’t matter who’s already on the roster. Cael will always try to bring the best of the best to Penn State.

There are, of course, casualties as a result of this practice. There have been numerous examples during Cael’s tenure of decorated wrestlers either being recruited over, or being thrust into a fierce competition with one of their teammates for a chance to represent the school in Rec Hall and NCAA’s.

The constant influx of state champs, fargo champs and world team members means Penn State wrestlers can never rest on their laurels. They won’t just be tested by wrestlers from other schools. They’ll be constantly harried by those in their own room.

Jimmy Gulibon committed less than a year after Jordan Conaway joined the program. Robbie Howard signed on before Brody Teske had even begun his freshman season. Daniel Kerkvliet transferred to Penn State after Seth Nevills had devoted a year of his life to training in Happy Valley. Winning eight team titles in nine years is unfathomably difficult. The list of those who have been caught in the crossfire over the course of the last decade goes on and on, but no wrestler has been caught in a maelstrom of internal struggles more than Anthony Cassar.

Cassar came to Penn State as unheralded as any recruit in the program’s storied history. A one time state qualifier in New Jersey, he had shown mild promise by winning at title at 195 during his senior season, but he wasn’t even a footnote in a class containing the blue chip, can’t miss trio of Nolf, Nickal and Nevills. To most Cassar was filler–a room guy who would never see the mat in a match of consequence. The fact that he managed to make the Junior World team in the summer of 2015 poked holes in that supposition, but a shoulder injury, and the presence of Morgan Macintosh, who was entering his senior season seven months removed from a third place finish at NCAA’s, meant Anthony wouldn’t be sniffing the starting lineup anytime soon.

Anthony Cassar earns a spot on the Junior World team on his very first attempt

Cassar’s only choice was to bide his time. He spent the 2016 season rehabbing and wrestled unattached the following year. It wasn’t until 2018 that he got his first chance to shine before the Rec Hall crowd. It was, however, under rather tumultuous circumstances. Where 149, 157, 165, 174 and 184 unquestionably belonged to Zain, Nolf, Cenzo, Mark Hall and Bo respectively, the situation at 197 was far more muddled.

Part 1 of 2.

Part 2 of 2:

Shakur Rasheed, who was a quality wrestler in his own right, had spent the first three years of his career bouncing from weight to weight in order to accommodate one wrestler or another. He was forced to cut to 165 during his freshman season after Bo Nickal entrenched himself at 174. Bo moved to 184 the following season, giving Shakur a chance to wrestle a more natural weight, but his season was abruptly ended by injury after six matches. Then, in 2018, with Mark Hall at 174 and Bo defending his title at 184, Shakur bumped up to 197, only to find himself at the center of that season’s fiercest roster battle. The man with whom he dueled for the chance to represent Penn State at Big Tens and Nationals? You guessed it. Anthony Cassar.

The two split time over the course of the season, but word coming out of the room was that Shakur was winning the wrestle-offs. He finished first at the Southern Scuffle, pinning Jacob Holschlag who had scraped out a 6-4 decision against Cassar in the semis, in a mere 46 seconds. Shakur and Anthony alternated duals for most of January, but with the match against Ohio State fast approaching, it seemed Shakur had finally made 197 his own.

It was fitting then that Shakur, who had finally emerged victorious in the contest of Nittany Lions, suffered an injury in the days leading up to what had been billed as the dual of the century. Cassar was deputized into action, though he faced a tall task as Kollin Moore, the top ranked wrestler in the country, was to take the mat opposite him.

The dual more than lived up to its billing. By the time Cassar ran onto the mat, urged on by the theme song of Jersey Shore, Penn State, who was competing without Jason Nolf, found themselves in very unfamiliar territory. Their 16-15 lead, narrow as it was, wouldn’t be an issue against most teams. Not with Cassar, who was 15-2 on the year, and Nick Nevills, an All American in 2017, still to take the mat. Ohio State wasn’t most teams, though. With Kollin Moore and Kyle Snyder yet to wrestle for the Buckeyes, the scene was grim.

Cassar takes on Kollin Moore with the dual in the balance

Both wrestlers struggled to penetrate the other’s head/hands defense in the early stages of the match, but Cassar struck first, nearly securing a takedown two minutes in. The match was far from decided, but one could sense an air of restrained expectancy among the Rec Hall crowd when the period ended 0-0 despite Moore’s supposed advantage.

The wrestlers had battled to a stalemate over the first three minutes, but the rest of the match had a completely different tenor. Cassar pushed the pace and scored on a pair of slick countershots in the second and third period. Trailing 5-3 with 50 seconds left, Moore did everything he could to get to his feet, but it was to no avail. As the final whistle blew, Anthony stood, tossed his headgear aside and pointed to the crowd in triumph. The dual was far from won, but Cassar’s improbable victory had given Nevills an opportunity to close things out for the undermanned Nittany Lions.

Upsetting the number one ranked wrestler in convincing fashion would be enough to guarantee the starting spot at pretty much any program, but Shakur had already won the right to represent Penn State in the postseason. His ability to secure pins and bonus point victories was exactly the type of advantage the team needed if they were to win their third straight team title.

But, when it came time to wrestle, Shakur lost to Moore in the finals of the Big Ten tournament, and later in the consolation rounds at NCAA’s. He finished the season in seventh place after beating Willy Miklus, but it was hard not to wonder how things would have played out if Cassar had gotten the nod.

The constant back and forth between Cassar and Shakur had brought an element of uncertainty to a lineup which was largely set it stone. That sense of unease persisted into the summer, for Cassar was faced with a difficult decision. Any program and its fans would be elated to have someone who dispatched Kollin Moore in their ranks, but it seemed as if the Nittany Lions simply didn’t have room for what could very well have been the best 197 pounder in 2018. No one would have blamed Cassar had he packed his bags and tried his luck at a school where the starting spot would be undisputedly his. In fact, more than one person suggested it would be what was best for him.

No news, however, was immediately forthcoming. Not from Anthony and not from Penn State. But as summer dragged on whispers began to swirl. Cassar posted a picture on Instagram in early July, looking noticeably bigger than he had the previous season. Where there’s smoke there’s often fire. One picture had instantly given credence to the rumors that Anthony had his eyes set on 285 rather than 197.

The early stages of a bulking odyssey that would culminate in a National Championship

It wasn’t as if 285 would be a piece of cake to secure, though. Cassar, who had been unable to beat out Shakur, would now have to go through two time All American Nick Nevills if he wanted to take the mat come March. Supplanting Nick would be a herculean feat, especially since Cassar had a long way to go before he weighed enough to realistically compete against larger heavys.

Anthony was not discouraged. He earned the starting spot, won Big Tens and became a national champion two weeks later. He logged bonus points in 22 of his 31 matches. If not for his sole loss to Derek White at the Southern Scuffle, Cassar very well could have been a finalist for the Hodge Trophy.

Anthony Cassar came to Penn State as an unranked recruit–a one time state champion who barely won more matches than he lost as a high school freshman. He qualified for Junior Worlds, but had to weather a shoulder injury which kept him off the mat during his first two years in Happy Valley. He spent the following season locked in a roster battle which he inevitably lost. He faced constant adversity, but not once did he waver. Whether it was belief in himself, belief in Cael’s vision, respect for his teammates and all they had accomplished, or a mixture of all three, Cassar stayed at Penn State, fought for his spot in the roster and was ultimately better off for it.

While we may have seen the last of Anthony Cassar in a Penn State singlet, we should all celebrate what he gave to Penn State and its fans. His 2019 season was the stuff of dreams–a stranger than fiction illustration of how far unfailing confidence, indomitable will, ceaseless effort (and a 6000 calorie per day diet) can get you. More than anything it was an encapsulation of the Penn State mindset. And, the perfect example of Cael’s plan at work.
 
Here is an article from several years back:

Cael's Plan - Anthony Cassar's Journey
By Michael Eisenhauer

Penn State is known as the program where wrestling is fun. Opposing fans sarcastically refer to it as such, incredulous as to how “fun” translates to winning. Nittany Lion loyalists can’t get enough of their favorite team’s approach, and how they’ve carved their place in history by treading a different path.

Yet, for all the games of dodgeball and soccer that grace the Lorenzo Wrestling Complex, there’s one element of Cael’s regime that is undeniably cutthroat. Ever since the GOAT of college wrestling arrived in Happy Valley, his approach to recruiting has never changed. It doesn’t matter who’s already on the roster. Cael will always try to bring the best of the best to Penn State.

There are, of course, casualties as a result of this practice. There have been numerous examples during Cael’s tenure of decorated wrestlers either being recruited over, or being thrust into a fierce competition with one of their teammates for a chance to represent the school in Rec Hall and NCAA’s.

The constant influx of state champs, fargo champs and world team members means Penn State wrestlers can never rest on their laurels. They won’t just be tested by wrestlers from other schools. They’ll be constantly harried by those in their own room.

Jimmy Gulibon committed less than a year after Jordan Conaway joined the program. Robbie Howard signed on before Brody Teske had even begun his freshman season. Daniel Kerkvliet transferred to Penn State after Seth Nevills had devoted a year of his life to training in Happy Valley. Winning eight team titles in nine years is unfathomably difficult. The list of those who have been caught in the crossfire over the course of the last decade goes on and on, but no wrestler has been caught in a maelstrom of internal struggles more than Anthony Cassar.

Cassar came to Penn State as unheralded as any recruit in the program’s storied history. A one time state qualifier in New Jersey, he had shown mild promise by winning at title at 195 during his senior season, but he wasn’t even a footnote in a class containing the blue chip, can’t miss trio of Nolf, Nickal and Nevills. To most Cassar was filler–a room guy who would never see the mat in a match of consequence. The fact that he managed to make the Junior World team in the summer of 2015 poked holes in that supposition, but a shoulder injury, and the presence of Morgan Macintosh, who was entering his senior season seven months removed from a third place finish at NCAA’s, meant Anthony wouldn’t be sniffing the starting lineup anytime soon.

Anthony Cassar earns a spot on the Junior World team on his very first attempt

Cassar’s only choice was to bide his time. He spent the 2016 season rehabbing and wrestled unattached the following year. It wasn’t until 2018 that he got his first chance to shine before the Rec Hall crowd. It was, however, under rather tumultuous circumstances. Where 149, 157, 165, 174 and 184 unquestionably belonged to Zain, Nolf, Cenzo, Mark Hall and Bo respectively, the situation at 197 was far more muddled.

Part 1 of 2.
Thank you for that. That helps make my point very simple. Unheralded and not very good are NOT synonymous. Like I said in my response to VHS, Cassar didn't have the long term High School results that are usually necessary to get a guy up near the top 10 lb4lb rankings. But, that doesn't in anyway mean he wasn't at that level by the end of his Senior year. What he did that season, coupled with his Junior results not long after, say more about how good he was than some massive development...
 
With all of that said, I am not even arguing that PSU doesn't develop. They absolutely do. They just also start with guys that are almost considerably better than their competition. Still, the fact that they churn out an unprecedented level of NCAA Champs, definitely proves they make those guys even better.

But, the argument here is more about making large developmental strides, with guys starting considerably below that level. When it comes to PSU, I would cite English as a pretty solid example. What happened with him was pretty special and his tenacity, when it was said that even Cael said it may be best for him to hang it up, only to come back and AA, was super impressive.
 
undefeated and won a NJ state title as a senior

Yes, at the weight of 195.

he wasn't taking something

Modern nutrition unavailable to him before becoming a PSU athlete, like the rest. He was still a growing boy. His FS injury occurred while wrestling as 2015 World Team Member at 96 kilograms. That's 211l.6bs.

As vhualum said, do the math. It's right there in front of you. All evidence points to he was cutting a lot of weight. That's for a one off against Moore. It's not so good for a 3-day tournament.
 
Last edited:
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT