It’s the only way some here will ever get the truth of the brainwashing that’s occurred.
Sammy Sasso
- Thread starter Reymundo
- Start date
How about you tell me exactly how an unarmed group of people were actually going to overturn an election? And I don't count bats as realistic weapons used to dominate the free world. Be very specific how that was going to get done. Were they going to try and hold the legislators hostage until they forced a change? Were they going to stomp up and down until Joe conceded? You are living in a bought and paid for media driven fantasy world full of what ifs if you think anything that group of people did was going to, wait for it, destroy our democracy.
If that day was anything like you appear to think it was, special forces would have been called in to restore order - not the Capitol police. Have you not watched White House Down?
Now that was an attempt to destroy our democracy.The only police officer who died was from a stroke the next day.
It doesn’t matter if they would/could have succeeded. That is completely irrelevant. I suspect we will continue to learn more as these trials go to court about their entire plan: to stop the certification, install the false electors, etc. thankfully it didn’t work so we don’t know exactly how they’re planning on doing it. We do know that there were several hotel rooms and box trucks nearby, full of guns and armor that for whatever reason they did not go get it.How about you tell me exactly how an unarmed group of people were actually going to overturn an election? And I don't count bats as realistic weapons used to dominate the free world. Be very specific how that was going to get done. Were they going to try and hold the legislators hostage until they forced a change? Were they going to stomp up and down until Joe conceded? You are living in a bought and paid for media driven fantasy world full of what ifs if you think anything that group of people did was going to, wait for it, destroy our democracy.
If that day was anything like you appear to think it was, special forces would have been called in to restore order - not the Capitol police. Have you not watched White House Down?
Also, apparently you missed the audio/transcripts of all of the calls made by congress leaders trying to get additional help in to restore order that was being blocked.
Seditionists want to be normalized.
Apparently you didn't see all of the video with the police opening the doors and walking the "mob" through the halls? At some points they looked like f'n tour guides. And it's not completely irrelevant because it was not going to happen. They were guilty of trespassing and destruction of property. The overthrowing of the government concept is simply propoganda used to rile up those they want riled up. Guns in hotel rooms? If they were going to use those guns they would have had them before going into the Capitol - not after.
I agree with you there. I think the point most of us are trying to get across, is "the way the different events were portrayed by the media have shaped people's opinion of the events and the motivations." I do not think a handful of people with batons and a few with pepper spray are trying to overthrow a gov't. I also do not believe that a president who thinks the election was stolen and says so, is trying to overthrow a gov't. He did not cause people to believe the election was stolen. I came to that conclusion on my own as did many others. We saw a lot of opportunities to cheat that were supported by the Dems and resisted by the GOP.
The media cherry picks what they show us and they try to sensationalize it.. Some people fall for it others do not. Some people only fall for it when it validates their thoughts or feelings. That goes for people on both sides of the political spectrum.
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Whenever I discuss a topic with a lib, I always have to laugh how long it will take for the name calling to begin. Way to represent the libs.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Best wishes to Sammy in his recovery.
Some of you are in for a rude awakening as these trials play out and jury verdicts are reached. Some of you seem completely oblivious to facts.
Then again, many J6 jury verdicts have already been decided with long sentences for seditious conspiracy and that doesn't seemed to have changed some opinions at all, so maybe it's a hopeless thought.
Some of you are in for a rude awakening as these trials play out and jury verdicts are reached. Some of you seem completely oblivious to facts.
Then again, many J6 jury verdicts have already been decided with long sentences for seditious conspiracy and that doesn't seemed to have changed some opinions at all, so maybe it's a hopeless thought.
you thinking (or at least never mentioning) the media cherry picking doesn't also happen with things like the 2020 demonstrations just reveals the same biases that you're so quick to warn everyone about
the position seems to be that crimnal prosecutions of political opponents are only for the campaign trail.
you get elected by promising to put people in jail, but you're not supposed to use the actual justice system to try to punish criminal actions. that is - somehow - unfair.
Except you're not clamoring for "accountability" in regards to the 2020 "peaceful protests". But continue on wielding your sword of righteousness.
nah, trump (and people like him) have been using their money and influence to avoid consequences for many many years
whether its settling violations of housing laws, stiffing contractors, repeatedly leveraging every possible ounce out of bankruptcy process...trump has always managed to stay juuuuuust on the right side of the law. won't be surprised if it continues here...
no rude awakening, just more of the same
One GIANT difference is comparing what people did illegally IN PERSON while on VIDEO TAPE and proving Donald Trump was not only the reason they went to the Capital, but he ordered and coordinated their illegal entry with specific malice and intent to SPECIFICALLY overthrow the government....
The 1st part(meaning convicting those who actually went into the Capital) is easily proven with video evidence and MOST pleading guilty (roughly 465 of the 561 found guilty and sentenced so far). To date, 978 have been charged.
With that said, would you please find me the charges and specific convictions that link the "rioters" to sedition and insurrection, while most importantly, linking them directly to Trump? I only found 2 people(Stewart Rhodes and Kelly Meggs, both leaders of Right Wing Militia Groups, neither of which do I see ANY direct link to Trump) Because, I have looked VERY HARD and all I keep finding are: obstruction of law enforcement during civil disorder, entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds, engaging in physical violence in a restricted building or grounds and forcibly assaulting, resisting, opposing, impeding federal officers.
Again, I am not even in this for the politics part. I DO NOT want him running again and would not lose a second worth of sleep if he were found guilty. I simply think he is so polarizing that, when you hate him as much as those with opposing viewpoints do, you want it to happen SO BADLY your view of the evidence is rather skewed...
Oh and edited to add: Since you brought up "long sentences" the longest so far is only 14 years and that happened because the guy had a very long, habitual record of criminal activity prior to that conviction...
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One last thing, I am completely open minded here. I have honestly sifted through the legal detritus that are the formal, filed charges in hopes of finding something "concrete". Because, again, I want him out of the running. I would be happy to be proven wrong here. Please show me these clear cut and damning facts that many of you say there is.
Because, as far as I can tell, the entire linkage of Trump to "sedition" and "insurrection" stems from this Tweet: “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th.” “Be there, will be wild!”
Cut and paste it here and I will happily agree with you if it is as clear and damning as many of you have said on here that it is...
Because, as far as I can tell, the entire linkage of Trump to "sedition" and "insurrection" stems from this Tweet: “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th.” “Be there, will be wild!”
Cut and paste it here and I will happily agree with you if it is as clear and damning as many of you have said on here that it is...
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me, skipping several pages and going to the end of the thread and if its worth reading the whole thing..
In regards to Sammy, he tweeted that he is recovering well and thanks the wrestling community for its overwhelming support!me, skipping several pages and going to the end of the thread and if its worth reading the whole thing..
It was an absolute shame Jan 6 happened, but I find it interesting how no one on the left wants to ever bring up Susan Rosenberg and the M19 Communist Organization who bombed the Capitol Building in 1983 causing 1 million dollars in damage. In 1984 she was caught taking guns and over 600 pounds of explosives to a storage facility in New Jersey. In 2001 Bill Clinton pardoned her on his last day in office. Why would a democrat pardon a known terrorist within our own country?? Almost like they were ok with things like this until the incident on Jan. 6.
I acknowledged in my post and totally and accept that both sides cherry pick and try to drive revenues by appealing to their audiences. I just disagree that Trump was trying to overthrow the gov't by encouraging people to protest what he says (and I think he believes) to be a travesty of justice and a stolen election.
It is hard to disagree that he can be abrasive and divisive, but to get all the way to the conclusion that he was trying to overthrow the gov't is a huge stretch.
Were some of the protesters angry? More than likely. Were they an organized group trying to overthrow the gov't - not likely. Did some of them make poor decisions? very likely. Was every protestor likeminded and on the same page. Not a chance.
Try to see through your hatred: it will help you to think clearly and even increase the quality of your life and those around you.
Stay on point. You thoroughly undermine yourself referencing an act from 40 years ago to try to somehow use it against what is happening now.
Even if it happened exactly how you described, it has NOTHING to do with this situation and it makes you look like a Conspiracy Theorist instead of someone with a compelling argument. In fact, I would argue that the opposite side WANTS you to make these kind of arguments...
I'm not compelling an argument. I'm showing the double standard.
Anyway it's time for me to quit following this thread. Ends up making me post about stuff I don't intend to when i come to a wrestling board.
Hope Sammy fully recovers and the person who shot him is brought to justice.
Hell, most of the charges hinge on him "knowingly" and "willingly" disseminating false and fraudulent claims regarding the election results. How in the HELL do you prove he didn't honestly believe the results were cheated, stolen and/or rigged against him? I mean the damn guy is such a narcissist I don't think he has EVER believed he was wrong in his entire life.
To be fair, I honestly believe that he STILL believes the election was stolen from him...
To be fair, I honestly believe that he STILL believes the election was stolen from him...
I get it. But, if you look hard enough you can find double standards across every aspect of Government and nothing will change in that regard...
hatred? thats the first time i've said anything directly about trump. and that stuff isn't even arguable
i know you probably think you're some unbiased indpendent, uncomprimised by party politics. i'd say your habit of accusing people who disagree with you of hating other politicians shows just the opposite
You can find double standards to this degree?? Her/they were all about "death to America" and set a damn bomb off in the capitol building and she was later pardoned by a democrat president. Save your lecturing for someone else.
It wasn't meant as a lecture. I am sorry if you took it that way. But, yes, if you look hard enough you can find quite a few "hypocrisies" at that level and probably quite a few even worse...
a shocking idea you apparently haven't thought of before:
there are people who generally support democrat party politicians who think that sometimes democrat party politicians do things that are wrong
i would assume the same is true for every political party, maybe just not for you specifically
I don't mind having a little back and forth conversation with MSU158. Overall, he is a good poster and seems like a good dude.
You pretty much seem like an idiot, so I'm going to refrain from having a back and forth with you specifically.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
I've listened to many lawyers' analysis of these cases and evidence and at this point, what I've seen and heard, the evidence is overwhelming against Trump in these trials and I'd be shocked if he weren't convicted and imprisoned. The only thing saving him to date is that he was a former president. Any other citizen in this country would already be behind bars with bail revoked awaiting trial.
The goalposts have moved. Initially, right wingers were claiming J6 was a peaceful tour (and many still delusionally claim that). Now at least 6 people have been convicted of seditious conspiracy with more trials impending. The longest sentence to date is Stewart Rhodes at 18 years (you're incorrect about 14). Idk what world you're living in that 18 years isn't a long sentence. That's effectively life in prison for him. Yet despite these facts, people continue to delusionally brush it off and claim it wasn't a serious attack on democracy, or delusionally claim that Trump had no involvement and didn't attempt to overthrow the election despite evidence right before their eyes.
Trump commits stochastic terrorism on a near daily basis. He abuses the first amendment and incites violence. He will be tried, convicted, and jailed.
I have absolutely no tolerance for anyone defending Trump or anyone involved with January 6 or the attempt at overturning the election. That is undemocratic, unAmerican, unpatriotic, and treasonous.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Trump was trying to overthrow the election through any means necessary (not just a mob invading the capitol on J6) without getting arrested. He failed at both of those.
Are you not aware of the false electors and what he tried to get Pence to do? Are you not aware of his perfect phone call in Georgia?
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Two points:
1) there is overwhelming proof that he knew the election wasn't rigged. He failed every case that was brought to court. Many of his closest advisors and own children told him the election wasn't stolen. There were recounts and audits in all of the states he contested.
2) him still "believing" the election was stolen (he doesn't. He's a fascist and espouses propaganda and lies with every sentence he outputs) doesn't absolve him of the crimes. He can claim that he still truly believes the election was stolen as much as he wants but that isn't a justifiable defense and won't save him from being convicted.
He will be tried, convicted, and jailed.
1.) I asked you to provide ANY evidence that is "overwhelming" not use anecdotal "lawyers analysis". If you have "seen and heard so much at this point, please share just 1 clearly and damning piece of evidence, especially in regards to being the leader in sedition and/or insurrection.
2.) I appreciated the Stewart Rhodes info. The article I was reading had yet to have his sentence listed. Prior to him, the longest sentence was 14 years for a repeat offender with THIRTY EIGHT prior felonies, named Peter Schwartz. Jennifer Megg was sentenced to 12 years. The other 4 "Oath Keepers" were sentenced from 3-4.5 years.
As far as the rest goes, only 1 person has received over 8.5 years and that was Thomas Webster, a retired NYC Police Officer who was charged with assaulting a police officer and tried to fight it as self defense in open court. So, yeah, I do still stand by my stance that you are a bit off saying "many J6 jury verdicts have already been decided with long sentences for seditious conspiracy" since 6 isn't "many and only 2 of those 6 received more than 4.5 year sentences...
Now, I am not arguing the sentences weren't deserved, I am just considerably more hesitant than you appear to be to directly relate a weirdo with an eye patch to the former president of the United States. Reading his bio, I find it much more believable that he operated as a leader on his own, as evidenced by the complete lack of organization and weaponry than Trump directly leading him to sedition.
To be clear, I DO think Trump is a POS. I really do. I am just not ready to take 1 Tweet and turn it into leading a riot, sedition and insurrection...If you can show me more clear evidence linking him to these people PLEASE DO. I am 100% open to reading it...
1.) To be clear, nearly all cases were dismissed by a Judge. They never made it to court. I am telling you that only fueled his belief that it was all rigged.
2.) So, you believe you can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, what a man was/is thinking?
Again, I am not on his side 1 bit. I will openly admit that I did like a lot of what he did as President, but I do not like that he was not 1 bit Presidential. When you represent the greatest country on Earth, you are about more than your policies. Your image matters too and his image was that of a sniveling, narcissist that whined like a baby when he didn't get his way...
