I figured as much. I agree with your view. I worked in the field for 14 years.
SEP 60 Ankeny -1
- Thread starter dtripp26
- Start date
What about a shirt that says, “Stalling?”
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I havent seen anyone agreeing with the refs decision. Most just saying he has the authority.
I am a hs wrestling official when i am spectating i still yell staling or other things. Thats part of being a fan. And ignoring it or taking it is part of being an official.
Again, i only watched about 15 min or the dual and didnt see or hear anything close to deserving of the refs actions. Honestly, if it was me, i would be embarassed if things had gone that far or ended that way on my watch.
Fair enough. If refs can’t get reasonable help regarding fan behavior sounds like he should just start tossing the fans much quicker so the police can do their job removing people.
I’m not saying people can’t be hard on refs. I’m saying it’s not a first amendment issue.
Look Bryce, I’m at home on a Friday night bored waiting for the TEXAS tOSU game to start. I’m just stirring shit pot. Get angry and argue with me, damnit.
Completely agree here. I refuse to soccer and there are some truly awful refs out there that lose control of a situation and then react badly to any criticism. If you make a tough call or a bad call you have to expect some heat.
Could it be that the officer in question is making extra money as security for the school, where he's allowed to wear his police uniform although he's not actually on active police duty?
I mean, I am pretty sure that's allowed in some places.
If this was the case, he would be working for the school rather than acting as for the public to protect and serve.
I mean, I am pretty sure that's allowed in some places.
If this was the case, he would be working for the school rather than acting as for the public to protect and serve.
Tossing fans at a wrestling meet for yelling stalling? No take me out to the ball park at Cubs games either I suppose? No singing along at concerts either?
Like I have said, no one was being abusive or threatening. No reason to make everyone leave at all.
ISU basketball fans would have the same reaction if they were told they can't scream FOUL all game long. They'd hoot and hollar that their first amendment rights were being infringed upon!
FWIW, I've seen more heated fans at a youth tournament. This ref is a clown for clearing the gym.
It's a first amendment issue when a sworn Police Officer is giving unlawful orders to citizens. Period.
Police Officers in uniform working off duty are still Police Officers. They can only enforce laws.
Balance, common sense, fairness, and class should also prevail as fans.
Good God, do you realize we're talking about a high school event? Adults need to be a damn example. Idiot adults and parents that have raised kids that think they can act like a-holes with no consequences are a main reason this crap happens. You're a fan at a high school event, sit in the damn stands, cheer for you team...it's simple.
easy dude, just ask the ref and coaches where a “safe space” is.
I bet the solution of “leading by example” is some flustered, butt-hurt ref who’s gotten chewed on for shitty calls and can’t remember what wrist is red and what one is green will be the guy to set the precedent. My bad.
I like how you’re holding the parents and kids responsible for setting a good example when Corky the ref was creating all the fires. 🤡
Plenty of buttholes at all meets including Carver. But yeah let’s clear them all out. Bring back covid rules. That was fun.
Don't believe you're right to free speech pertains to high school wrestling match.
If the ref doesn't like people yelling "stalling" then you feel he should be able to clear the gym. I don't think I agree with that.
The First Amendment is absolutely in play in a situation like this. It restricts state actors from restricting most types of speech or expressive conduct, although the scope of the right is far from absolute. And it is subject in many instances to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions, especially in school settings.
The high school gym is a type of public forum when opened up for a sporting event. The school district is a state actor. The ref is probably not a state actor when he's just officiating the match, but when he goes to the extent of deciding who can be present in the gym based on what people are saying, he is acting under the authority of the school district, and acting as an arm of the state. A police officer carrying out that directive is no doubt a state actor. 1A is implicated.
There isn't much case law on rowdy fans and free speech rights, probably because most people don't want to publicly litigate their embarrassing fan behavior, and the injury is usually just getting kicked out of the venue. But there are some well-established principles that would restrict a ref's or AD's ability to remove or punish fans for their speech or expressive conduct like signs or flags or clothing. Just calling for stalling is almost certainly protected if not done in an over the top manner. Same for telling a ref to get new glasses, imo. Screaming obscenities just to scream them or threatening others, not protected.
It all depends on the context, and the state has the power to put some reasonable restrictions in place to ensure an orderly event. But emptying the entire venue is pretty extreme and would require a compelling justification to stay on the right side of the Constitution.
The high school gym is a type of public forum when opened up for a sporting event. The school district is a state actor. The ref is probably not a state actor when he's just officiating the match, but when he goes to the extent of deciding who can be present in the gym based on what people are saying, he is acting under the authority of the school district, and acting as an arm of the state. A police officer carrying out that directive is no doubt a state actor. 1A is implicated.
There isn't much case law on rowdy fans and free speech rights, probably because most people don't want to publicly litigate their embarrassing fan behavior, and the injury is usually just getting kicked out of the venue. But there are some well-established principles that would restrict a ref's or AD's ability to remove or punish fans for their speech or expressive conduct like signs or flags or clothing. Just calling for stalling is almost certainly protected if not done in an over the top manner. Same for telling a ref to get new glasses, imo. Screaming obscenities just to scream them or threatening others, not protected.
It all depends on the context, and the state has the power to put some reasonable restrictions in place to ensure an orderly event. But emptying the entire venue is pretty extreme and would require a compelling justification to stay on the right side of the Constitution.
So are Chief and Turk deputized? Are they considered the Cesspool government? Just trying to figure out if I have a first amendment legal case if they ban me for calling someone an a$$hat, inciting a cesspool political riot, or posting naked pics of a couple of cesspool member's wives.
Fish. Barrel.
Anyway, I can’t believe someone claimed this is a first amendment issue. 😂
do you think its constitutional if the officer is telling the people that if they keep yelling stalling that they will be asked to leave?
I say give it a go, and let the chips fall where they may!
.. .
If the cop said 'its illegal for you to yell stalling ' he is almost certainly incorrect.
If the cop said 'the AD has asked me to inform everyone that yelling stalling will not be allowed. If you continue to do so, we will ask you to leave. If you refuse, you will be trespassed' the cop is almost certainly in the right. Its possible the school may be in the wrong there (aside from the ref / school being 'soft'), but that would be for a judge (or jury) to decide after that fact.
This instance shares a couple similarities, but also has some key differences to recent cases lately where a HS student painted a certain former/future president on their parking space, or decorated their truck a certain way.
That's true if it's your house, but in a public facility unless you are breaking the law, you can do anything you want. There is no law in the US that prevents people from applauding or cheering. Actually, there is no law that prevents you from hassling a person in public as long as it doesn't become violent or pose a physical threat or incite others to violence or other illegal activity. There have been a variety of lawsuits that have upheld a person's first amendment rights, even when the person aggressively uses them.
However, you should keep in mind that a public space can become a private space if a person is paying money for the use such as renting out a publicly owned convention center for a convention or trade show. Then you do not have these rights, and your speech can be curtailed. This does not appear to be the case here.
What? You don’t know a constitutional crisis when you see one? Lol
It doesn't, you do not necessarily have a right to be there. For example if you're interrupting a speaker at an event or musician at a recital they can remove you. They're often rules of conduct that often times don't need to be enforced putting cases like this she will get tossed.
I don't need a safe space believe me, that crap is complete bs imho. I even originally said the ref probably overreacted, I wasn't there, don't even really care. I've just sat through (as a supervisor) for the past six years watching kids and parents act like complete idiots towards refs and opposing fans. I was making a general statement regarding the actions of fans at high school events. Watching/supervising the sporting events should have been one of the best parts of my job but instead it became one of the worst. Constantly having to approach fans and ask them to improve their behavior just got old real quick. Again, you make fun of a ref that's terrible but these are the only people that will do the job because of the crap they have to take from fans. Not sure how it is in IA but for football a couple years ago we had to start playing games on Thursdays and Saturdays because there aren't enough officials these days. First year it was one game each, it was up to two last year.
It absolutely does. Someone can't restrict your right to free speech if what you are saying isn't threatening, abusive or causing a disturbance.
Completely different deal. No one was interrupting a speaker. They were cheering and yelling stalling at a wrestling meet. You can't just make someone be quiet in America just because you want them to if what they are saying isn't threatening or abusive.
So, I talked to the powers that be about this exact scenario. A law enforcement officer can only give lawful orders like I said previously. We can't throw someone out of anywhere just because a ref or ad says so. The ad can trespass them and then we can make them leave. We can see that they are being aggressive or causing a disruption or said something threatening to the ref and then we can ask them to leave. But telling someone that they can't yell stalling at a wrestling meet or say something I don't like on the streets or stand somewhere I don't want them to in public is not a lawful enforceable order. They are committing no crimes.
I disagree. Law enforcement doesn’t need to stand around until a crime is committed. So, if they see a potential murder, they have to wait until the murder? No. We don’t know what else they heard in addition to stalling. If they had a reasonable belief that the behavior was going to lead to violence or an assault, they can ABSOLUTELY step in to mitigate that risk. They can’t give tickets or citations until a law is broken, but they can mitigate risk. Do we really want our cops to stand around and do nothing until the damage is done?! 🤔
Disagree. Rivals can kick you off this website for anything they want. You can get fired from your employer for saying you like the Iowa State Cyclones. The constitution and Bill of Rights protects us from the government. It does not protect you from other individuals and private companies. One could argue that the school district is a governmental agency, but they are allowed to put in protective measures for the safety of the kids. If there was any hint of violence at the meet, the school district’s rights trump those of individuals. Frankly, people have no constitutional right to attend a wrestling meet. That is a privilege and that privilege can be revoked. The school could ban attendance for the rest of the year if they wanted.
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