SEP 60 Ankeny -1
- Thread starter dtripp26
- Start date
This thread has shown the very questionable grasp of the 1st amendment many people have
The ignorance so many people have when it comes to what freedom of speech actually means is truly stunning.
Apples and Oranges. (kids vs professional sports)
High school fans should set a good example for their kids. Instead. the kids do no wrong and everything is the ref's fault. High school officials will make mistakes and many of them. High school players and coaches will make mistakes and many of them. Fans need to stfu and say thank you to the guys and girls brave enough to listen to all the insane crap coming from parents these days. Otherwise grab a whistle and give this umpiring gig a try. I would bet that most of the complaining is done by parents/fans that have NEVER officiated at any level, nor will they.
Well you will get it. Most venues have rules of conduct that can be quite arbitrary and if it is thought you are violating them you can be removed. If you refuse to leave you are potentially trespassing.
I also officiated for many years, and yes at times you do come across some pretty terrible fans. I personally never kicked out a fan, but did once eject a coach. Anyway, this official will have to answer to the association for his actions and they will look into it and determine if anything should happen with him, or the schools involved. They could suspend his license, but probably not with the big shortage of officials across the state. Fans are the biggest reason for the shortage because the way they act or verbally abuse the officials. What is really sad is that when I got out of officiating, I was one of the younger officials in the state. Young people do not want to do it because of what they see by the way people act towards them. or through experiences of volunteering for youth games and tournaments. Even at this lower-level people are terrible in the way they act, and young people do not want to deal with this, and I personally can't blame them. I will say clearing the whole gym does seem a little over the top, but then again I was not there. The state association will investigate this and determine what steps need to happen next.
The referee exercised his 1st Amendment rights and said ‘get out’
Whose rights won? Looks like the ref.
Was he right? No idea. Free speech isn’t free from consequence.
Yelling stalling at a wrestling match doesn't break ANY rules of conduct. If they remove you unjustly, there can be consequences.
The point that I have been trying to make, with no one listening is that I had the problem with the LE Officer telling people they can't yell stalling at a wrestling meet. He absolutely can not do that. It is not a lawful order by him as no laws are being broken. Law enforcement Officers can not enforce policies or rules, only laws. If the ref or ad wanted someone removed they would have to trespass them. Then the Officer can step in. If the Officer determined you were causing a disturbance you could be removed but again he would have to be able to justify that to his superiors.
If one was to say something derogatory and/or hate speech, what law would/could be enforced by the officer?
Say a parent sues the ref and school for being removed and not being able to witness their son wrestle a varsity meet. Who wins then?
As I have said previously, nothing threatening, abusive or harassing was being yelled by anyone. The worst things I heard were a couple ankeny fans yelling at the SEPolk coach to sit down and the SEPolk kids yelling stalling and scoreboard. The ref was having a mental episode or something and lost his mind because people cheered and he cleared the gym.
I’m hoping you aren’t arresting folks for violating “hate speech laws” or being derogatory.
It was a stupid thing for the ref to do IMO, but that doesn't mean anyone's right to freedom of speech was violated.
Part of your challenge is your verbiage
‘He absolutely can not do that.’
Perhaps absolutely shouldn’t do that is more accurate.
Because if that is what he was telling them then he absolutely could tell them that.
Whether he should have is the issue.
Regarding your interpretation of the first amendment? No I was not wrong. I was not responding anything you said about the LEO and what he did or did not do.
Please read the thread, no one said the ref violated anyones right to free speech.
In post #11 you said:
"You do realize we live in America and as Americans we have the right to free speech."
In post #13, in response to another poster saying "The constitution/free speech argument is not relevant in this scenario." you said:
"It absolutely is relevant."
I used to referee powerlifting meets. I haven't for a long time because it was usually an unpaid thing you did out of love of the sport. I just don't have the time to do it anymore. Most lifting organizations have some official referees or if it's not a high-level meet they will have lifters handle it themselves.
But yeah, my seven-year-old son had a poor game in a basketball game one time and he started to blame the referees. I stopped him short and told him those men work really hard so you kids could play a game. They don't get paid a lot son and if they were the best of referees they would be full-time employees but the NBA. So they're human beings are gonna make mistakes just like you do.
If you can't handle that, and if you're gonna blame other people for your own failures you're not gonna play. Do you understand? It was answered by a yes sir and I've never heard him really complain about referees after that.
Your average fan is horrible .
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