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SIAP: from Athlon, what other coaches think of Ferentz...

What would you consider the next level?

Winning the West every 3-4 years. Averaging 9 wins per season. COMPETING in New Years Six or higher-level bowl games against top-4 teams from P5 conferences. Yes, Iowa has played several of them, the last time they were competitive in one of them was 2010.
This all requires better recruiting. I believe the 16-18 classes were a big step in the right direction. 19 is still TBD.
 
The 8-win statement, by whatever coach made it, ignores the fact that Iowa also has a history of achieving greatness fairly regularly (including 12-0 just 2 seasons ago). I think this year we have the talent and schedule to be KF's latest top-10 team. If he achieves this so closely removed from 12-0 it changes the narrative completely.
They might actually be referring to just that. The 2015 regular season was very good, but calling it “greatness” probably demonstrates the gulf between our standards and other programs. Not bringing home a conference championship and having the the team that beat the us get dismantled in their bowl game - only for us to get dismantled shortly after in our bowl game - would not scream greatness for a OSU or even Wisconsin.
 
Playing a legit non conference schedule and playing ohio state and Michigan annually like most other schools in conference

I guess you would (I wouldn’t) have to say that “most other schools in the conference” do not play Wisconsin (a better team than Michigan the last 10 years) annually like Iowa does.
 
"He goes 8–5, and they love him."

Hmmmm. This feels like a cheap shot. First, is Iowa supposed to fire a guy that goes 8-5? Second, he must not read the HR threads that torch him when he doesn't win 10.
That was definitely a cheap shot. It also likely comes from a coach who often acquires similar records (or better).

What that same coach doesn't realize is that there is a vocal portion of the Iowa fan base who pines for the Hawks "to take the next step" ... and those folks are very critical of Ferentz. However, by and large, most Iowa fans would prefer that Iowa win more ... however, they greatly respect Kirk and they appreciate how he runs the program AND how he represents the program and the state.
 
All I want are the facts no "ya buts"...

1) List the programs with more Top 10 finishes than Kirk has had during that same time frame.
2) list populations by state with total number of P5 schools. For example:
WI (5.8 million) Wisconsin
MN (5.5 million) Minnesota
IA (3.1 million) U of I, ISU

Run all the numbers. Pretty impressive what Kirk has done.
It's wild when you also normalize the state population data by the number of P5 schools in the state. Also, when you consider that Iowa is a developmental program - even UNI can complicate Iowa's efforts (since they're a high-quality FCS program that can snag under-the-radar types that Iowa likes to go after).

If you look at Ohio - it's wild to consider that they're the lone P5 school in their state. Cincinatti used to be a bigger player in the state when the Big East was still a thing - however, even then, most Ohio kids grew up wanting to be a Buckeye. Since OSU isn't a developmental program, there large number of MAC schools in the state have no problem fighting over OSU's scraps.

Even Michigan, with 2 in-state P5 programs ... they're in a state of nearly 10 million people.
 
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That was definitely a cheap shot. It also likely comes from a coach who often acquires similar records (or better).

What that same coach doesn't realize is that there is a vocal portion of the Iowa fan base who pines for the Hawks "to take the next step" ... and those folks are very critical of Ferentz. However, by and large, most Iowa fans would prefer that Iowa win more ... however, they greatly respect Kirk and they appreciate how he runs the program AND how he represents the program and the state.
Anyhow, part of my point being that a lot of Iowa fans have positive feelings concerning Ferentz for reasons other than just the Hawkeye's record. Thus, we don't love or hate Ferentz for Iowa's 8-5 seasons.

Also, the perception of those coaches are skewed, because they obviously haven't noticed Iowa's decline in home-attendance. If the fans loved Ferentz irrespective of the record - then there wouldn't have been such a decline.
 
I think a large part of Ferentz's job security during the lean years is because of the experience trying to make the next level with Men's Basketball back in 1999. We effectively fired the winningest coach in school history, that was also very popular, because he only made the 2nd round of the tournament regularly. Almost 2 decades later and we are struggling to just get into the NCAA tourney.
 
I think a large part of Ferentz's job security during the lean years is because of the experience trying to make the next level with Men's Basketball back in 1999. We effectively fired the winningest coach in school history, that was also very popular, because he only made the 2nd round of the tournament regularly. Almost 2 decades later and we are struggling to just get into the NCAA tourney.
I would speculate that there were also enough old-timers out there (some with deep pockets) who impressed upon the younger generation of donors how rare the Hayden Fry's of the world are. Some folks may have grown up hearing of the great years under Evasheski ... only for the Hawks to linger in the world of obscurity or mediocrity for nearly 20 years (until we got Hayden).

While there have been lean years under both Fry and Ferentz ... most years have been decent ... and some years have been great. That still beats the crap out of irrelevance.
 
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I'm sorry, were you not aware that the school doesn't have a say in their conference schedule. And while your at it there (anti iowa12), why don't you address my post, on why all these power schools don't have a better record then Iowa the last 10-15 years, and all of their coaching carosel hasn't set them back on a path to championships? Here's a look into the crystal ball for you. In 2020 two of the teams playing in the final four will be Bama and OSU. Like some of that action?
Because they play tougher schedules
 
And we didn’t go 12-0 did we?
Where did I say we did? You said you wanted us to play a real schedule, right after a season where we played the fifth toughest schedule in the county.

From what I understand, using your own words, you should of been happy with last season, as we won 8 games with a tough schedule. Look what I found:
I’d likely be fine with 7-8 if we played a challenging schedule to make it more exciting for fans and got more aggressive in skill position recruiting

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/thre...an-over-rated-list.237077/page-3#post-5538845

After I replied with the following you were nowhere to be found:

Damn, you must of been trilled last year with 8 wins and a top 10 strength of schedule (top 5 according to Sagarin!).

Bonus points for a RB that is working for a NFL roster spot and a QB and couple of TEs that are showing up on all sorts of watch lists this year. Ton of skill position talent.

You're not very good at this trolling thing, even for an ISU fan.

I won't hold my breath for a reply this time either, as I know there is probably a lot of talk on your ISU message boards as well. But good god, at least try to be consistent.
 
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I would speculate that there were also enough old-timers out there (some with deep pockets) who impressed upon the younger generation of donors how rare the Hayden Fry's of the world are. Some folks may have grown up hearing of the great years under Evasheski ... only for the Hawks to linger in the world of obscurity or mediocrity for nearly 20 years (until we got Hayden).

While there have been lean years under both Fry and Ferentz ... most years have been decent ... and some years have been great. That still beats the crap out of irrelevance.

The worst part about those 20 years of mediocrity is that they came during the era where college football really came to the forefront and the true bluebloods of CFB were cemented. If a program could be an annual contender during that time, they got a lot of the limited TV time and became known as a national power. That was arguably the worst time to slip into mediocrity and, despite his success as a coach, Evy really screwed Iowa as an AD.
 
To totally change the subject, I'm willing to bet it was Kirk who said the following:

"(RB) Mike Epstein is a tough runner, a guy who definitely doesn’t look the part but sure as heck plays it. He’s fun to watch. Lovie needs about 20 more Mike Epsteins."

"They’re going to be really good on offense this year. Going to score a lot of points on the teams in this league. Ramsey is a good player. If you’re completing close to 70 percent of your passes in the first year in this league, you’re doing something right. I never saw him get rattled."

"They can be really good up front, and they’re going to need it to protect Thorson and open some holes for (RB) Jeremy Larkin, a young guy who I think is good."

"The biggest shock of all last year is how well that team played defensively. They lose a lot from that front four that really was the nucleus of the defense. The one guy that does come back is the wide body in the middle, Lorenzo Neal. What a player he is. The perfect run stuffer. He just eats up space."
 
Where did I say we did? You said you wanted us to play a real schedule, right after a season where we played the fifth toughest schedule in the county.

From what I understand, using your own words, you should of been happy with last season, as we won 8 games with a tough schedule. Look what I found:


https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/thre...an-over-rated-list.237077/page-3#post-5538845

After I replied with the following you were nowhere to be found:



I won't hold my breath for a reply this time either, as I know there is probably a lot of talk on your ISU message boards as well. But good god, at least try to be consistent.

Wow, owned. Nice work outing another ISU troll.
 
I would speculate that there were also enough old-timers out there (some with deep pockets) who impressed upon the younger generation of donors how rare the Hayden Fry's of the world are. Some folks may have grown up hearing of the great years under Evasheski ... only for the Hawks to linger in the world of obscurity or mediocrity for nearly 20 years (until we got Hayden).

While there have been lean years under both Fry and Ferentz ... most years have been decent ... and some years have been great. That still beats the crap out of irrelevance.
Envy ended up being his own worst enemy in some regards.

He felt he didn't have the same drive to coach, and would rather lead as an administrator, and became the AD. Unfortunately, the football program suffered greatly as a result and some of Evy's decisions as AD were partly to blame.
 
Only because the buyout was so high
If 2015 didn't happen, and something more like 2014 or worse did....then that wouldn't have mattered.

And yes, it was still a huge f***ing mistake by Barta to add to Kirk's contract after the start of the 2016 season.
 
I think this quote captures it best:

"No matter what happens year after year, his teams always get one or two big wins that make you think, boy, they could be really good. Then every four or five years, they get one of those special seasons that makes everyone in Iowa think ‘That’s why he’s our coach.’ There are about a 120-something coaches (in FBS) envious of his situation."
 
Because they play tougher schedules
Bull. Do some research before making such an ignorant statement. Many of these schools DO NOT play tougher non con schedules, and for most of that time the overall conference power in the big 12 and pac 12 hasn't been anywhere near as good as the BIG. I mean, why have the mighty Trojans of USC not ascended back to power. Stanford had a few good years, Oregon had a few good years, Washington just recently a couple. Most of that time the rest of the conference is middling to poor. The Arizona schools, UCLA, OSU, WSU, Colorado, Cal, nothing there to strike fear in opponents.
 
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Wtf are you talking about and how does that play a factor in what the topic was?
Tell me that the current system isn't set up to reward the teams at the top, and make it so much easier for them to stay there. Forget Iowa for a minute, why aren't other prominent schools crashing the party?
 
Tell me that the current system isn't set up to reward the teams at the top, and make it so much easier for them to stay there. Forget Iowa for a minute, why aren't other prominent schools crashing the party?

You mean like Clemson (3 times in the playoffs), Oklahoma (2 times) or even FSU or Oregon? I think all of them besides FSU in 2014, had a loss and still made it to the playoffs. Heck, Washington was only 3 spots higher than Iowa in the preseason polls the year they went to the playoffs. But I do believe Alabama is given more forgiveness if they lose, then most schools are. I can agree with you on that.
 
To totally change the subject, I'm willing to bet it was Kirk who said the following:

"(RB) Mike Epstein is a tough runner, a guy who definitely doesn’t look the part but sure as heck plays it. He’s fun to watch. Lovie needs about 20 more Mike Epsteins."

"They’re going to be really good on offense this year. Going to score a lot of points on the teams in this league. Ramsey is a good player. If you’re completing close to 70 percent of your passes in the first year in this league, you’re doing something right. I never saw him get rattled."

"They can be really good up front, and they’re going to need it to protect Thorson and open some holes for (RB) Jeremy Larkin, a young guy who I think is good."

"The biggest shock of all last year is how well that team played defensively. They lose a lot from that front four that really was the nucleus of the defense. The one guy that does come back is the wide body in the middle, Lorenzo Neal. What a player he is. The perfect run stuffer. He just eats up space."

I would take that bet and respectfully say KF wouldn't talk about another coach, program, or player outside his inner circle. He has been careful never to give anyone bulletin board material.
 
You mean like Clemson (3 times in the playoffs), Oklahoma (2 times) or even FSU or Oregon? I think all of them besides FSU in 2014, had a loss and still made it to the playoffs. Heck, Washington was only 3 spots higher than Iowa in the preseason polls the year they went to the playoffs. But I do believe Alabama is given more forgiveness if they lose, then most schools are. I can agree with you on that.
I already mentioned Oklahoma as a school right near those top two because Stoops got his team to play defense so they stood out in the 12. Clemson has been the party crasher under Dabo, probably the top coach right now. Basically one other team has a slim chance to crash the four every year.
 
Bull. Do some research before making such an ignorant statement. Many of these schools DO NOT play tougher non con schedules, and for most of that time the overall conference power in the big 12 and pac 12 hasn't been anywhere near as good as the BIG. I mean, why have the mighty Trojans of USC not ascended back to power. Stanford had a few good years, Oregon had a few good years, Washington just recently a couple. Most of that time the rest of the conference is middling to poor. The Arizona schools, UCLA, OSU, WSU, Colorado, Cal, nothing there to strike fear in opponents.
i suggest blocking him
 
I already mentioned Oklahoma as a school right near those top two because Stoops got his team to play defense so they stood out in the 12. Clemson has been the party crasher under Dabo, probably the top coach right now. Basically one other team has a slim chance to crash the four every year.

I have a feeling Georgia is going to be challenging Bama on a regular basis as long as Smart is there and the NCAA keeps looks the other way. What they are doing with recruiting is above and beyond anything Bama has done, which is insane.
 
.’ There are about a 120-something coaches (in FBS) envious of his situation."

translation: There are about 120-something other ADs that wonder how Barta got (and keeps) that job.

Hard work and loyalty. valued over the BS shenanigans taking place elsewhere.
 
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It's wild when you also normalize the state population data by the number of P5 schools in the state. Also, when you consider that Iowa is a developmental program - even UNI can complicate Iowa's efforts (since they're a high-quality FCS program that can snag under-the-radar types that Iowa likes to go after).

If you look at Ohio - it's wild to consider that they're the lone P5 school in their state. Cincinatti used to be a bigger player in the state when the Big East was still a thing - however, even then, most Ohio kids grew up wanting to be a Buckeye. Since OSU isn't a developmental program, there large number of MAC schools in the state have no problem fighting over OSU's scraps.
Even Michigan, with 2 in-state P5 programs ... they're in a state of nearly 10 million people.

This is the right answer.....

Look at Nebraska with their revolving door, and what that has done to their program. How about Pitt, that canned Wannstedt for a 7-5 season after a 9 win and 10 win season previous years. They have not had better than 8 wins since (including a handfull of 5 win seasons). How about IL, that is a trainwreck....

Be careful what you wish for. Ferentz does a great job.
 
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All I want are the facts no "ya buts"...

1) List the programs with more Top 10 finishes than Kirk has had during that same time frame.
2) list populations by state with total number of P5 schools. For example:
WI (5.8 million) Wisconsin
MN (5.5 million) Minnesota
IA (3.1 million) U of I, ISU

Run all the numbers. Pretty impressive what Kirk has done.
There are only two states that have Iowa’s unique disadvantage, at least two Power 5 schools in a low population state; Mississippi and Kansas. But Oklahoma is not far off.
KS (2.9 M)
MS (3.0 M)
OK (3.8 M)
I love what Kirk has done here. Someone said it best last year. Iowa is an 8-4team that has the ability to be 10-2 or 6-6 depending on the schedule.
 
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To be fair, there are plenty of programs that fire coaches for similar records:

Georgia: Mark Richt
Duh U: Al Golden
Nebraska: Everybody since Osborne
LSU: Les Miles
florida: Jim McElwain ( technically quit, but was going to get fired)
Arizona: Dick Rod
Arizona St: Todd Graham

Lots more, but those are just some examples in the last few years. Iowa is one of the few p5 programs that don’t have a “win big or you’re gone” mentality.
Dick Rod was let go after two 7-6 seasons and a 3-9
Todd Graham after two losing seasons and a 7-6
I think McElwain had other issues
Can't argue latest Nebraska firing
Golden won more than 7 games once in 5 seasons
Georgria and LSU only good examples

Ferentz had one 3 year stretch where he didn't win 8 in a year, easily could have been canned after that.
 
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There are only two states that have Iowa’s unique disadvantage, at least two Power 5 schools in a low population state; Mississippi and Kansas. But Oklahoma is not far off.
KS (2.9 M)
MS (3.0 M)
OK (3.8 M)
I love what Kirk has done here. Someone said it best last year. Iowa is an 8-4team that has the ability to be 10-2 or 6-6 depending on the schedule.

And I would say Kansas is the only one of those 3 that may have it even tougher than Iowa. OK and MS are short drives to “hot beds” of HS recruits. Makes what Snyder was able to accomplish at K -State even more impressive. Manhattan, KS is truly where elephants go to die.
 
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Dick Rod was let go after two 7-6 seasons and a 3-9
Todd Graham after two losing seasons and a 7-6
I think McElwain had other issues
Can't argue latest Nebraska firing
Golden won more than 7 games once in 5 seasons
Georgria and LSU only good examples

Ferentz had one 3 year stretch where he didn't win 8 in a year, easily could have been canned after that.
Golden's performance was puzzling ... because what he accomplished at Temple was pretty phenomenal. However, while at Miami - you have to deal with the attitude that guys cop when they're at Miami. You see a similar attitude at any school that views itself as a "named" program ... there's a little more of culture of entitlement. Any coach that is at such a place needs to know how to manage and manipulate guys who demonstrate such attitudes. Some folks ... like the Pete Carolls of the world ... are quite good at it. Others, maybe those a little more like Ferentz ... they're not as good at it. Of course, that's also probably part of the reason why Ferentz recruits the guys he does.
 
There are only two states that have Iowa’s unique disadvantage, at least two Power 5 schools in a low population state; Mississippi and Kansas. But Oklahoma is not far off.
KS (2.9 M)
MS (3.0 M)
OK (3.8 M)
I love what Kirk has done here. Someone said it best last year. Iowa is an 8-4team that has the ability to be 10-2 or 6-6 depending on the schedule.

Okie's population isn't huge, but it's effectively Texas North. Norman is <200 miles from Dallas. No shortage of talent in the neighborhood.
 
You mean like Clemson (3 times in the playoffs), Oklahoma (2 times) or even FSU or Oregon? I think all of them besides FSU in 2014, had a loss and still made it to the playoffs. Heck, Washington was only 3 spots higher than Iowa in the preseason polls the year they went to the playoffs. But I do believe Alabama is given more forgiveness if they lose, then most schools are. I can agree with you on that.

tOSU had two losses last year and were still somewhat it the discussion. Most were saying it was the fact that it was a blowout loss was the reason they didn't get in. I think if the Iowa loss had been close instead of a blowout, or if it had been to a name brand team, they would have been in. Highly unlikely Iowa gets a look unless they're undefeated. Even then there's dissent (remember the fake ID crap?...and he wasn't the only one). With one loss the odds are virtually nil for Iowa and with 2 losses...no effing way.
 
And I would say Kansas is the only one of those 3 that may have it even tougher than Iowa. OK and MS are short drives to “hot beds” of HS recruits. Makes what Snyder was able to accomplish at K -State even more impressive. Manhattan, KS is truly where elephants go to die.
Yeah, what Snyder did at K-State borders on wizardry. On the flip side - while Kansas has been the basketball program of the state ... when Snyder has been at KSU ... the Wildcats have been the football program of the state. It's worth noting that the best luck that Kansas had in football was the period under Mangino when Snyder was gone from KSU. Once Snyder returned ... the Jayhawks returned to dumpster-fire status (although Mangino getting canned also figured into the equation).
 
Anyhow, part of my point being that a lot of Iowa fans have positive feelings concerning Ferentz for reasons other than just the Hawkeye's record. Thus, we don't love or hate Ferentz for Iowa's 8-5 seasons.

Also, the perception of those coaches are skewed, because they obviously haven't noticed Iowa's decline in home-attendance. If the fans loved Ferentz irrespective of the record - then there wouldn't have been such a decline.

Except decline in attendance is not just an Iowa thing. Times are changing and the sport is being over exposed in my opinion just as the NFL is. Back in the day a game or two would be on tv, now they all are and you can get 24/7 news if you wish. It is just too much and people get complacent. Just stay home and watch on tv out of any weather and crowds and traffic, etc.
 
I love what Kirk has done here. Someone said it best last year. Iowa is an 8-4team that has the ability to be 10-2 or 6-6 depending on the schedule.
I'd say that how the record varies about 8-4 is as much a function of injuries and attrition as it is a function of the schedule. In 2016, the Hawks lost to NDSU ... but, in that game, 2 of our best O-linemen were also out with injury. Given that our OL almost always has a bit of a transition period at the start of seasons ... any breaks in personnel continuity tends to impact the O that much more.
 
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