Pragmatism has nothing to do with pussification. I have no doubt the nuance of this distinction flies over your head.
So why didn't we shake hands?
- Thread starter Hawkfan_08
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Pragmatism has nothing to do with pussification. I have no doubt the nuance of this distinction flies over your head.
Not in the NBA. Shaking hands at the end is for junior high teams.
Fran was right on target....
1) Bohannan gets an armlock and mugged by a player...
2) Jok gets thrown down
3) Baer gets pounced on as click winds down
4) Coach gestures for a counted basket
The game was over...it's one thing to play hard and play to the end... It's another thing when you act like a bunch of thugs...
Good job Fran... You did the right thing
1) Bohannan gets an armlock and mugged by a player...
2) Jok gets thrown down
3) Baer gets pounced on as click winds down
4) Coach gestures for a counted basket
The game was over...it's one thing to play hard and play to the end... It's another thing when you act like a bunch of thugs...
Good job Fran... You did the right thing
Because many got caught voicing those opinions without even all the facts in front of them. To me, that's not an opinion, but a billboard. Non-communcative and just there to be annoying. Again, if you go back from the start count how many jumped down Fran's throat presuming he marched off only because of the last second steal and shot.
Does that make for an informed opinion?
And I suppose I'm pushing a rock up a hill on to see it roll back down again, but wouldn't it be nice if people held off with the coach bashing (that's how I read much of it) long enough to know if it was warranted?
Thanks, by the way, you are right, this board is for opinions. So I am not sure why you turned the discussion away from what I thought to why I think that way?
I was at the game. That was only the straw that broke the back. The dead ball tech on Bohannon, then Jok getting punched (yes punched) in the back, and then the ripping the ball out of Baers hands. The game was poorly handled by the officials and they never had control of it.
Not when people keep replying.
But yes, that is what the experts say, and it's what Fran did. Interestingly, proving that even amidst that temper his actions are under control.ND coach said he was going to talk to his player about it. Said they had a lot of friends and family in Iowa and did not want to be known for that.
facts are nasty things. These days why wait?
Huh? Walking away doesn't show control of your emotions? Fran 3-4 yrs ago would have had a temper tantrum.
I'm glad Fran walked off. Jones was a dbag and the players acted like thugs. You don't, as a coach, call a player an effing prick. But, during the very last sequence I don't believe Jones was asking for the basket to count. Right when his player jumped in and grabbed the ball you can see him step quickly on the court and made a quick motion with his arms for his guys to not do that. After it happened, it looked to me like more of a "why the hell did you do that" type gesture. Just my opinion.
If the Hawks would play defense with the same intensity Fran coaches we'd have more wins and be a serious threat in the B1G.
He probably is helping instill toughness in a group of young kids who will need it.
He probably is helping instill toughness in a group of young kids who will need it.
I guess you think it's OK to put Jok to the floor a couple times. If he goes down for the season Iowa's season is over. Grab a pink ribbon and thanks for playing.
Post game radio show the ND coach was sorry about the incident and did not want his team getting that type of rep.
To late.. Already had that reputation going in and reinforced it again tonight. he can say whatever he wants to now after the fact but his teams and his actions were deplorable and Fran has every right to walk off the court
If Fran was concerned about a brawl he should have made sure his players followed him but he left them not knowing what to do. I'm sure his players have been told you shake hands no matter what. I wonder if the refs will get called for waving off the basket. No matter how classless the play was I don't think a ref has any authority to wave off a basket with time left on the clock. That in itself could have caused more tension.
Jones was making the "count it" sign. The same guester Fran was making on the way out.
The shot didn't leave the player's hand before the clock expired. Waving the basket off was the correct call.
Yeah, my panties are in a bunch. Is this 4th or 5th grade? Seriously. You don't even know my feelings on the subject. Just thinking we could keep politics out of this. Maybe not stereotype every person in the room for once. As soon as Bobby Knight chokes a kid should I say that every conservative would defend him? Lump everybody together?
I have to say though that I am one who likes Fran's fire. I think it's that fire that made him a legend on the streets of Philadelphia as a player when he was young.......I do get annoyed when the moral police on ESPN articles and other boards start bashing Fran for his temper........
Which honestly makes him look worse. Fran is a highly paid PROFESSIONAL representing an institution of higher learning and is supposed to set an example for his players. He should act accordingly. I get why he was pissed but you still shake hands.
Since you are so concerned about society's moving away from Neanderthalish concepts of masculinity, isn't it a little bit wussy to be afraid that you might get hurt in a handshake line? That was part of the justification by Fran.
Edit: see post below. Info I was not aware of, though I'd still prefer that Fran had better control of his temper. Screamed a lot during the game, lots of naughty words clearly heard from my seat. Not that I mind those words per se, but it's a little much.
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How bout if they took someone out for the season with a dirty play or killed someone.always? Really? Pussification of America on full display here.
Apparently you've never played competitive basketball. Down three, yes go for it...Down eleven, you're an idiot that should know better; from even the grade/middle school rules.
Fran is sending the wrong message to his team for starters. They stood there looking at each other. When Dillard finished shaking hands and turned around and there were no coaches or players behind him, he also had a WTF look. Everyone should have went through the handshake line and Fran just leans over to Jones and says let's chat in the tunnel. Then when out of sight of fans and media, Fran can sy how disappointed he was with the manner in which ND finished the game. Just a man to man thing and the move on. This will now be drug through the entire season whenever things get rough or tense at the end of a game and players will be worried if they are shaking hands this time or not. Fran gets paid a lot of money and is the face of Iowa basketball, he has to remember that first instead of becoming a public display.
I was at the game so I saw the pushing and petty stuff, so I get the frustration and maybe even bush league maneuvers of ND, but Iowa can also act too. I love Pemsl, but he will get in foul trouble several times this year for his little hip checks and cheap swipes. and Jok had two blatant push offs in the first half where he extended his arm completely at the guy guarding him. It takes too to tangle!
I was at the game so I saw the pushing and petty stuff, so I get the frustration and maybe even bush league maneuvers of ND, but Iowa can also act too. I love Pemsl, but he will get in foul trouble several times this year for his little hip checks and cheap swipes. and Jok had two blatant push offs in the first half where he extended his arm completely at the guy guarding him. It takes too to tangle!
But it wasn't even fighting. Baer rebounded the ball with two seconds left. What were they fighting for? No team does that. Could have let the clock run out.
It's just plain funny. To be funny there has to be some truth in it. Stereotypical PC at play when someone breaks a norm!
I'm really not sure how you came up with that, but I'll chalk it up to posting at 12:04 AM.
I mean, seriously, that's what you took away from all of this? That I'm ok with Jok being put to the floor a couple times?
You bring up a great point about waiting to form an opinion until you know sufficient facts. This is often the basis of unfair coach-bashing; many who second-guess the decisions of coaches actually have much less information than the coach himself and thus their criticism is hollow. We see this with criticism of both Ferentz and Fran on many occasions.
With that said, in this situation I still believe there was enough information to form an opinion about whether they should have shook hands just by watching the game. North Dakota made a few bush-league plays in the final moments of last night's game. I think everyone agrees that Iowa's players and coaches had a right to be pissed based on what they witnessed. Given this information, there appear to be two camps of people: (1) While Fran should be pissed, he should suck it up and shake hands and privately communicate his frustration with Jones; (2) Fran should be pissed, and given the bush-league antics of North Dakota, Fran shouldn't have bothered shaking hands.
I don't see any subsequent facts that came out that would change the opinion of either camp of people. The fact that Jones made a "count-it" signal is another bush-league move that wasn't immediately recognizable to viewers, but the principal of the argument of those in the first camp is that even if your opponent has been classless, you still take the high road and shake hands. A good example that comes to mind is Denzil Washington's character in Remember the Titans when he offers to shake hands with the opposing coach that said earlier in the week "I'm not gonna do anything to help that monkey." Denzil's character took the high road and offered a handshake, and when he was denied he gave the classless coach a banana. Taking the high road doesn't mean you let others push you around, it just means that you won't let the classless acts of others affect your behavior.
In the end, I don't have a particularly strong opinion either way because I do believe Fran was justified, but I still would have liked him to shake hands. Fran is an emotional guy, and I like that about him, but there are times when he can go a little too far with his on-court antics - and with that said I also think it's worth noting that, to Fran's credit, he doesn't take his anger out on postgame interviewers, unlike some other fiery coaches (Bob Knight, Bo Pelini, etc.).
I am very happy with the job Fran has done at Iowa, and I think he is a good representative for the University of Iowa, but I do disagree with his actions on occasion. Even with disagreement, however, I recognize the reasonableness of his actions and the opinions of others, which is why I don't really have a problem with him not shaking hands with North Dakota. With that said, Dan, I believe you and I have a slight difference of opinion, but I recognize the reasonableness of the points you make and your opinion on the matter, so I offer my imaginary hand out to you for an imaginary handshake. Go Hawks!
Well Iowa is going to be the talk of CBB today I guess, espn, deadspin, etc. I still back Fran, but the rest of the country that aren't fans, and who didn't watch the game, are going to see a hot headed coach. This just cemented it with them. I just wish Iowa was getting attention for playing well with freshmen.
And you can't mention anything about Iowa on another board without someone dragging up 'eye poking Woody'... I guess he got under peoples skin lol.
And you can't mention anything about Iowa on another board without someone dragging up 'eye poking Woody'... I guess he got under peoples skin lol.
