The BLM movement is based on a false premise... and now it is harming the Iowa football program
- Thread starter speed4power
- Start date
I agree that racial profiling is a huge problem. Lots of harassment or at least unnecessary suspicion and questioning if one happens to be black especially if near an area where a crime was committed. But beyond even that I can’t imagine the irritation I’d have if every time I was stopped by police in a traffic stop I’d have to basically prove I was legal rather than the assumption I was.
I’d also add that the high prevalence of marijuana use in the young male AA community (in my area anyway) probably leads to lots of issues with getting stopped and charged or arrested simply for marijuana and the cops using that as a pretense for the stop and the search. If it were legal perhaps less of that would occur. I’d be interested to see stats on this in states where it is legal cause this e in which it is not.
However AA crimes are clearly disproportionate ( I don’t buy that is all selective prosecution). relative to percentage of the population and taking ownership of this, by their community, and making changes likely would improve the perception of this. Over time. Perhaps considerable time. But it has to start. Now you could argue that because of the socioeconomic circumstances many turn to crime. I’d wouldn’t disagree but I’d also add that simply trying to spend more state or federal money on this or that isn’t as much of a solution as community pressure from family, friends, clergy etc is likely to be more valuable. The glorification of violence, objectification of women, etc in young male AA culture and acceptance of it needs to change too. I’ll add I am a huge fan of hip hop and listen to the lyrics. I don’t find that influences me but I’m also not a young AA make trying to fit in either.
lets just disband the police force so we have zero discrepancy as it pertains to arrests and let’s see what the results show? I’m sure things will go splendidly. Lets take all cops out of black neighborhoods so no racial profiling or systemic racism takes place. Lets just have people police themselves and we will see how crime rates are then calculated.
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Appreciate the thoughtful response. I don’t disagree, there is in fact a high rate of criminality among blacks particularly in the age range of 16-34. Certainly, there are a multitude of reasons for this as you have pointed out, socioeconomic status being one. I also agree that the community must take ownership rather than look outward for sole culpability. Restorative justice and community policing only work if the African American community, in tandem with law enforcement, works to clean up its own streets.
Furthermore, I don’t believe racial profiling is the sole reason for an higher arrest rate. I used it as an example of another variable to illustrate errors in statistical analysis. Concluding blacks are more likely to killed by police because they are more violent and using a linear correlative rise in the variables as proof, is rudimentary, at best.
I’ll also go on record that this can’t be solved by the police nor will disbanding the police, in turn, solve the problem. Gang activity, broken homes, abuse, poverty, addiction, and illiteracy are each stumbling blocks for the black community that must be addressed. These kids have almost no chance.
Also, labeling LEO’s as the boogeyman, is shortsighted, but that does not mean the adversarial racist undercurrent in law enforcement isn’t real and can’t be fixed. The us vs. them ideology often indoctrinates good recruits into disillusioned vets. As I’ve said before, reconciliation is the only path forward. We can support the police and oppose brutality. What we are seeing play out are symptoms of a larger syndrome and to use medical jargon, polypharmacy is the only solution. There are no easy fixes.
You realize I just added it to the quoted post with the sole purpose of sharing with everyone, right? Like no agenda other than to share an experience. Or is this your attempt to marginalize something I went through? Doesn't seem very tolerant of you.
Solid reply and posts like this are the reason I continue to come back here.
And I just pointed out that your "experiences" were accounted for in the stats. Probably best to not bring up "marginalizing" when that's exactly what your post was.
Well...not really. Quite literally, I was sharing a story. Is that not allowed here anymore? I love how you try and get chesty by continuing to use quotes. Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose.
I feel just fine. And you knew what you were doing - and it wasn't "sharing a story". It was "Hey, this happens to white people, too".
Lol. When you’re deer hunting, everything looks like and sounds like a deer. For a self proclaimed genius, you have a lot to learn. Have a good night.
LOL...never claimed to be a genius so now you're just lying. And I would fully expect you to go deer hunting and shoot anything that moved...then claim you thought it was a deer.
You profess to know everything about me, so really it’s quite evident.
Your hate filled assumptions are quite clear. I’m sorry it’s a struggle to practice what you preach.
The only one who really has brought any rationality to this thread is @IAHawk2011, so good for him. There are a whole lot of problems with these arguments above which are all based on hurt feelings, prejudice, and confirmation bias rather than facts, so let’s dig in...
1) The biggest faulty premise is looking at these statistics as reasoning in the first place. These stats about the rate of crime come from convictions. As @IAHawk2011 noted (and you all should go back and read his posts), blacks face massive discrepancies in law enforcement and sentencing. You know another important statistic left out? Black men are also the most exonerated group. So this argument is basically “the justice system isn’t racist because look at all these black convictions in the justice system.” Any Logic 101 instructor would tell you that’s “circular reasoning” and a false premise.
2) The “Absent black father” is mostly myth. There is zero difference between the rate of involved fathers of blacks and whites when looking at their economic status. And this goes to what so many miss about these stats: These stats used by white supremacists or apologists turn out to be FAR more about poverty than skin or racial culture. So realize that black people (with notable exceptions) have been stuck in poverty at higher rates since the end of slavery. So addressing poverty, and not blame the poor for being “lazy” and “dependent”, and you begin to address this problem...
3) The famous study through Harvard that showed no link between death by police and race, also showed that blacks were subjected to more “brutality” as in police were more aggressive and physical when taking them into custody. Add this in to the rates IAHawk mentioned that show whites get away with much more from police (and our state is sadly the worst in the nation in these disparities) and it is no wonder Black America has this perception. The “lives” they talk about are quality of life and a life not likely incarcerated much longer for a similar crime than a white person, or to be more likely beaten by an officer, or pulled/over searched more, or less likely to be given a job with the same qualifications, etc.
4) To insinuate that blacks haven’t put blood, sweat, and tears into black-on-black crime like @Hawkeye_311 is pure ignorance, and probably the worst tell of a racist. No note of the increasing amount of black prosecutors, black police, black lawmakers, black mentors, not to mention community organizers (like some like to crap on) as seen in The Interruptors documentary working nearly every day on this problem. The great irony of this is that the people who talk like this are going off an image of black portrayal in the very mainstream media they pretend to be so critical of. And to suggest THEY need to deal with it and that we as simply fellow humans need to deal with it collectively is pathetic.
To start laying blame all at the feet of the victims of these disparities, to plug our ears and not listen to our own former players, is inexcusable. Especially when our program has a proud history of black pioneers in the game (the first black college HOF member, the first TWO black linemen in the NFL, the first black athlete on the cover of SI, the first black Outland Trophy Winner, etc.) And the mere fact that the proposed “Kinnick-Slater Stadium” had to drop the “Slater” out of fear of backlash from white Iowans saddens me and says a lot about how we need to look honestly at this and our prejudices as Iowans.
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The equivalent of telling everyone you have many black friends. Your addition adds absolutely nothing to the referenced post. Not a thing.
Typical lib don’t like the stats so call him a racist.The only one who really has brought any rationality to this thread is @IAHawk2011, so good for him. There are a whole lot of problems with these arguments above which are all based on hurt feelings, prejudice, and confirmation bias rather than facts, so let’s dig in...
1) The biggest faulty premise is looking at these statistics as reasoning in the first place. These stats about the rate of crime come from convictions. As @IAHawk2011 noted (and you all should go back and read his posts), blacks face massive discrepancies in law enforcement and sentencing. You know another important statistic left out? Black men are also the most exonerated group. So this argument is basically “the justice system isn’t racist because look at all these black convictions in the justice system.” Any Logic 101 instructor would tell you that’s “circular reasoning” and a false premise.
2) The “Absent black father” is mostly myth. There is zero difference between the rate of involved fathers of blacks and whites when looking at their economic status. And this goes to what so many miss about these stats: These stats used by white supremacists or apologists turn out to be FAR more about poverty than skin or racial culture. So realize that black people (with notable exceptions) have been stuck in poverty at higher rates since the end of slavery. So addressing poverty, and not blame the poor for being “lazy” and “dependent”, and you begin to address this problem...
3) The famous study through Harvard that showed no link between death by police and race, also showed that blacks were subjected to more “brutality” as in police were more aggressive and physical when taking them into custody. Add this in to the rates IAHawk mentioned that show whites get away with much more from police (and our state is sadly the worst in the nation in these disparities) and it is no wonder Black America has this perception. The “lives” they talk about are quality of life and a life not likely incarcerated much longer for a similar crime than a white person, or to be more likely beaten by an officer, or pulled/over searched more, or less likely to be given a job with the same qualifications, etc.
4) To insinuate that blacks haven’t put blood, sweat, and tears into black-on-black crime like @Hawkeye_311 is pure ignorance, and probably the worst tell of a racist. No note of the increasing amount of black prosecutors, black police, black lawmakers, black mentors, not to mention community organizers (like some like to crap on) as seen in The Interruptors documentary working nearly every day on this problem. The great irony of this is that the people who talk like this are going off an image of black portrayal in the very mainstream media they pretend to be so critical of. And to suggest THEY need to deal with it and that we as simply fellow humans need to deal with it collectively is pathetic.
To start laying blame all at the feet of the victims of these disparities, to plug our ears and not listen to our own former players, is inexcusable. Especially when our program has a proud history of black pioneers in the game (the first black college HOF member, the first TWO black linemen in the NFL, the first black athlete on the cover of SI, the first black Outland Trophy Winner, etc.) And the mere fact that the proposed “Kinnick-Slater Stadium” had to drop the “Slater” out of fear of backlash from white Iowans saddens me and says a lot about how we need to look honestly at this and our prejudices as Iowans.
Reading is not your strong suit. Nor is getting past your feelings to get to the facts presented. Never called OP racist. Grow up.
Blacks make up 12% of the U.S. population but commit 52% of all shootings in the U.S. It doesn't seem they are shedding many tears over black on black crime. You do realize the term racist is used so often it has zero credibility anymore.The only one who really has brought any rationality to this thread is @IAHawk2011, so good for him. There are a whole lot of problems with these arguments above which are all based on hurt feelings, prejudice, and confirmation bias rather than facts, so let’s dig in...
1) The biggest faulty premise is looking at these statistics as reasoning in the first place. These stats about the rate of crime come from convictions. As @IAHawk2011 noted (and you all should go back and read his posts), blacks face massive discrepancies in law enforcement and sentencing. You know another important statistic left out? Black men are also the most exonerated group. So this argument is basically “the justice system isn’t racist because look at all these black convictions in the justice system.” Any Logic 101 instructor would tell you that’s “circular reasoning” and a false premise.
2) The “Absent black father” is mostly myth. There is zero difference between the rate of involved fathers of blacks and whites when looking at their economic status. And this goes to what so many miss about these stats: These stats used by white supremacists or apologists turn out to be FAR more about poverty than skin or racial culture. So realize that black people (with notable exceptions) have been stuck in poverty at higher rates since the end of slavery. So addressing poverty, and not blame the poor for being “lazy” and “dependent”, and you begin to address this problem...
3) The famous study through Harvard that showed no link between death by police and race, also showed that blacks were subjected to more “brutality” as in police were more aggressive and physical when taking them into custody. Add this in to the rates IAHawk mentioned that show whites get away with much more from police (and our state is sadly the worst in the nation in these disparities) and it is no wonder Black America has this perception. The “lives” they talk about are quality of life and a life not likely incarcerated much longer for a similar crime than a white person, or to be more likely beaten by an officer, or pulled/over searched more, or less likely to be given a job with the same qualifications, etc.
4) To insinuate that blacks haven’t put blood, sweat, and tears into black-on-black crime like @Hawkeye_311 is pure ignorance, and probably the worst tell of a racist. No note of the increasing amount of black prosecutors, black police, black lawmakers, black mentors, not to mention community organizers (like some like to crap on) as seen in The Interruptors documentary working nearly every day on this problem. The great irony of this is that the people who talk like this are going off an image of black portrayal in the very mainstream media they pretend to be so critical of. And to suggest THEY need to deal with it and that we as simply fellow humans need to deal with it collectively is pathetic.
To start laying blame all at the feet of the victims of these disparities, to plug our ears and not listen to our own former players, is inexcusable. Especially when our program has a proud history of black pioneers in the game (the first black college HOF member, the first TWO black linemen in the NFL, the first black athlete on the cover of SI, the first black Outland Trophy Winner, etc.) And the mere fact that the proposed “Kinnick-Slater Stadium” had to drop the “Slater” out of fear of backlash from white Iowans saddens me and says a lot about how we need to look honestly at this and our prejudices as Iowans.
It doesn’t seem like it? Come to my community. Turn off your TV and chip away at the ignorance it has fostered in you.
I’m sorry to call you out for what you are. You’re now willfully ignorant, and a racist. You clearly enjoy a life free from interacting with as few Black people as necessary. If you would stop being a fool for one second of your life, you could actually show some curiosity on the topic and talk to black community leaders or watch The Interruptors. But uneducated, incurious, and mindless people like you are the biggest problem in America today.
You should see if rivals will let you change your name to tarheelbybirthidiotbychoice.
The only one who really has brought any rationality to this thread is @IAHawk2011, so good for him. There are a whole lot of problems with these arguments above which are all based on hurt feelings, prejudice, and confirmation bias rather than facts, so let’s dig in...
1) The biggest faulty premise is looking at these statistics as reasoning in the first place. These stats about the rate of crime come from convictions. As @IAHawk2011 noted (and you all should go back and read his posts), blacks face massive discrepancies in law enforcement and sentencing. You know another important statistic left out? Black men are also the most exonerated group. So this argument is basically “the justice system isn’t racist because look at all these black convictions in the justice system.” Any Logic 101 instructor would tell you that’s “circular reasoning” and a false premise.
2) The “Absent black father” is mostly myth. There is zero difference between the rate of involved fathers of blacks and whites when looking at their economic status. And this goes to what so many miss about these stats: These stats used by white supremacists or apologists turn out to be FAR more about poverty than skin or racial culture. So realize that black people (with notable exceptions) have been stuck in poverty at higher rates since the end of slavery. So addressing poverty, and not blame the poor for being “lazy” and “dependent”, and you begin to address this problem...
3) The famous study through Harvard that showed no link between death by police and race, also showed that blacks were subjected to more “brutality” as in police were more aggressive and physical when taking them into custody. Add this in to the rates IAHawk mentioned that show whites get away with much more from police (and our state is sadly the worst in the nation in these disparities) and it is no wonder Black America has this perception. The “lives” they talk about are quality of life and a life not likely incarcerated much longer for a similar crime than a white person, or to be more likely beaten by an officer, or pulled/over searched more, or less likely to be given a job with the same qualifications, etc.
4) To insinuate that blacks haven’t put blood, sweat, and tears into black-on-black crime like @Hawkeye_311 is pure ignorance, and probably the worst tell of a racist. No note of the increasing amount of black prosecutors, black police, black lawmakers, black mentors, not to mention community organizers (like some like to crap on) as seen in The Interruptors documentary working nearly every day on this problem. The great irony of this is that the people who talk like this are going off an image of black portrayal in the very mainstream media they pretend to be so critical of. And to suggest THEY need to deal with it and that we as simply fellow humans need to deal with it collectively is pathetic.
To start laying blame all at the feet of the victims of these disparities, to plug our ears and not listen to our own former players, is inexcusable. Especially when our program has a proud history of black pioneers in the game (the first black college HOF member, the first TWO black linemen in the NFL, the first black athlete on the cover of SI, the first black Outland Trophy Winner, etc.) And the mere fact that the proposed “Kinnick-Slater Stadium” had to drop the “Slater” out of fear of backlash from white Iowans saddens me and says a lot about how we need to look honestly at this and our prejudices as Iowans.
In response to your post, point by point.
1. Arrest records show that black crime rate is way higher too. Not just convictions. We are not talking about just a little higher either. Black crime rate is through the roof higher than any other group relative to their population size. This is just a fact. It's not racist or irrational to point this out, like some in this thread have said.
2. Absent black fathers is not "mostly a myth." It is absolutely true. I agree with your post that when you control for socioeconomic status, the differences in fatherlessness between races probably is reduced or maybe even goes away completely. But that doesn't change the fact that black children are disproportionately growing up without fathers, contributing to the cycle of poverty. All that does is support a point I made in one of my other posts, that poor black children face most of the exact same challenges now that poor white children face.
3. This may be true. But this study also claimed that if you adjust for "context" and "behavior" of the suspects the difference in force used by police mostly (but not completely) goes away.
4. I think most people agree that there are people in the black community trying to deal with black on black crime. However, any objective person would acknowledge that there is selective outrage when it comes to which murders get attention from groups like BLM, the media, and the public in general. They love to focus on the 5-10 incidences per year where an unarmed black suspect is shot by a police officer, especially a white officer. Most of these end up being justified, because the suspect attacked the officer, corroberated by witnesses. Massive protests and movements like we are seeing now do not happen when black victims are murdered by black criminals, a much more common occurance. I could not find a single word on the BLM website about black on black crime, helping fatherless black children, improving black educational opportunities, career development, stop and frisk laws, etc. You know... things that will actually help black people. Instead they choose to focus on this fake narrative that there is a widespread problem with police officers murdering innocent black people. They do this intentionally and not for noble reasons. I actually find this message quite perverted, unecessarily devisive, and disempowering to black people. This is why I support empowering all people, including black people, but I do not support the organization Black Lives Matter.
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Finally someone attempts a rational response.
1) All your post highlights is another statistic of racial disparity. Unless you’re of the belief that blacks are just inherently more criminal?(FYI,, I don’t think you do), this is just an indictment of poverty, policing, and our system as a whole.
2) As the article I have posted here points out, the statistics that were presented earlier ignore that many black fathers live with their kids but aren’t counted in the statistics. The rest we agree on.
3) “Context” or “behavior” is generally a culturally-based assumption of threat. Studies show that both black and white people think pictures of blacks are more threatening than the same pictures with a white face. It gets murky here. So much of this is hard to unpack, but behavioral psychology plays a role.
4) All of the remedies you mentioned were the goals of The Black Panther Party. Guess what the feds and the police did to them? I’m not addressing all of BLM, but to suggest most black protesters aren’t aware of these issues is not true. Those issues are a legacy of this nation’s past crimes.
