This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
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At this point, I’d be fine with them even agreeing to not join NATO if Russia leaves all Ukrainian territory.
Then wait for them to leave and immediately join NATO.
That is how Russia conducts its international agreements, let them have a taste. What the hell would they do about it once UKR has Article 5 protection?
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Let’s try this as a hypothetical with you as President of the US.
In this hypothetical, somehow Canada is a major military power and the US is much weaker but has powerful friends.
Let’s say Canada invaded and took over Washington, Oregon, Montana, Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire.
Somehow, the outmatched but plucky American Army stops the initial invasion, saves NYC and Washington D.C. and - with help from weapons from its powerful allies - manages to take back Oregon, New Hampshire and Vermont in less than 10 months and is continuing to roll back the Canadians and inflict losses on them while you see the Canadian economy weaken and the globe turning against it.
If a general from, say Mexico, told you it’s time to be done and to just let the Canadians keep Washington, Montana and Maine to “end the bloodshed” despite the fact you are currently winning all the battles, what is your call as commander in chief?
Hmmm....Milley isn't a general from Mexico....he's the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the country that is the primary arms supplier and driver of NATO policy that supports Ukraine. Not really comparable...
In your scenario I'd tell Mexico to go F themselves....Ukraine ain't doing that to the US.
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It is comparable in my hypothetical. I said the US was weak and it’s allies were strong. In this hypothetical, Mexico is the chief power behind the support of the weak US.
What is your call as Commander in Chief and president of the USA?
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Ukraine soldiers' videos show 'Kherson advances'
STORY: Reuters was able to confirm the location of both videos from the surrounding structures and vegetation, which match file and satellite photography, but not the date either was filmed.There was no immediate confirmation of Snihurivka's recapture from the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, a day...
How do you propose to negotiate with terrorists in Moscow?
The terms are simple, leave Ukraine, all of it. Prepare to make reparations for senselessly murdering thousands of civilians and decimating whole cities throughout the country. Short of that, fück you, Russian warship!
If I felt like I had enough weapons/supplies/etc. and did not need the help of Mexico, going forward, I would tell them to 'eff off.
I want them to regain all of Ukraine, but realize that might not happen. I'm rooting for them to keep grinding, but negotiations may happen. At that point, I would really focus on how Russia will pay to rebuild the country's infrastructure that they indiscriminately destroyed. during their special mission. Of course they won't agree to anything.....but at least you're showing the world that you're open to talks.
Interesting question.
In this scenario I'd have to figure out if losing Mexico's support could be overcome by other countries still providing military support.
Tough call....none of us know the true situation in regards to Ukraine's military. What's the status of their munitions supplies...could losing US support be overcome because current stocks are sufficient. A lot of unknowns...
My line in the sand if I'm Ukraine's leader is making it back to the pre-invasion border....nothing less is negotiable. I think Zelensky wants to get back to the pre-2014 border and that's where western support gets dicey.
Without a firm grip on Ukraine's current military status it's hard to give a definitive answer to your scenario.
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Right, makes sense. But I presume since you are POTUS and a patriot, your first order of business would be to assess what your countrymen want and to work as hard as possible to regain ALL US territory.
Zelensky has been and should keep doing exactly that, IMO.
I think Zelensky's leadership has been outstanding...big fan.
I think Ukrainian's want to make it back to the pre-2014 border....understandable.
Have no problem with them having that position...if I was a Ukrainian I'd be right there with them.
The question is is it in US/NATO's interest to continue unconditional support for them to make it to that objective? I've always thought there is a clock on that support....might make it till next summer but if it keeps grinding on the US/NATO is gonna want a negotiated settlement.
Biggest takeaway for me is Milley's comment that Ukraine has suffered comparable casualties....certainly wouldn't have gathered that from the stuff posted in this thread.
Pre-2014 border may be the end game in this war.
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I think it should be. At the end of the day it’s a pretty black and white subject: should nations respect other nations’ sovereign territory? Russia violated that norm of the rules-based global order in 2014 and emboldened by lack of pushback, did again in 2021. Now they need to finally be held accountable.
Agree....in a perfect world Ukraine takes back all it's territory....pre-2014 included.
Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world....
Wives of Russian soldiers showed up at Ukraine border and demanded to take their husbands home, report says
A group of mostly women traveled to a Russian military base to demand their husbands get taken out of Ukraine, The Insider reported.
Totally agree...however it's awfully easy for me to sit here as an American in my nice warm house and cheer our government to continue sending weapons as Ukranians continue to die and their cities continue to be destroyed, farms mined, etc.
If that were happening around me, I might change my tune. I hope to never find out for real how I would feel.
If Nebraska invaded the first line of counties in Western Iowa, and Eastern Iowa/des Moines had a chance to save the rest of the state by telling Nebraska to keep western iowa...Nebraska would be bigger, and both states would have a higher IQ.
No good deed goes unpunished. Though getting out and helping saved a couple of lives.
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Well in this case it appears that the folks sitting warm and cozy are the ones most vociferously calling for negotiations and an end to hostilities while those paying in blood and discomfort want to keep the fight going.
I say you go until those willing to fight decide it’s not worth it.
Yep, that's where I'm at.
You'd still jump at the chance to offload western Iowa though wouldn't you...
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Hypotheticals or not, the US is not fighting in this war, therefore we have no true objective to gain except trying to keep Kyiv and Ukraine from falling in total. So at some point when there's a stalemate, do ask the Ukranians why they're not fighting so hard to take everything back or do we make an assessment based on where things are and say let's just stop?
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We have tremendous objectives to gain: support for global democracy; strengthening the rules-based global order and reaffirming the sacrosanct right of sovereign nations to exist; expanding NATO which assists in the previous two points and curbing the power of authoritarian Russia.
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Settle down Beavis, I’d still fight for Counciltucky and SUX even if they are inbred deplorables. They are OUR inbred deplorables. 🙂
"The surrender of Kherson is the largest geopolitical defeat of Russia since the collapse of the USSR," Sergei Markov, a pro-Kremlin political analyst and ex-advisor to Putin, said on Telegram."
www.yahoo.com
Ex-Putin advisor compares Kherson retreat in Ukraine to the collapse of the Soviet Union, warning of 'really big' consequences
"The surrender of Kherson is the largest geopolitical defeat of Russia since the collapse of the USSR," an ex-Putin advisor said.
