This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...

[Tenacious E]

Russia has won.

Yesterday's comments from the U.S. Secretary of Defense and President clearly showed America is now aligned WITH Russia and against Ukraine and Europe.

It is a defeat for American values, democracy and anti-authoritarianism. This was set in motion by Putin when he assisted in getting Donald Trump re-elected. Nice job, Republicans, you just handed the U.S. it's worst geopolitical loss since Vietnam.

The Bulwark on Substack

Yesterday was a victory for Moscow and for Putin. And it was a defeat for the United States and Ukraine, and for the international order and the cause of freedom. Today's Morning Shots from Bill Kristol, @Martyn Wendell Jones, and @Benjamin Parker...

substack.com

The only good news is that Ukraine has inflicted so much damage to Russia's military and oil refineries, that even if nothing more is destroyed Russia cannot realistically wage war again until there is a new president in 2029.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

The only good news is that Ukraine has inflicted so much damage to Russia's military and oil refineries, that even if nothing more is destroyed Russian cannot realistically wage war again until there is a new president in 2029.

I do hope you are correct.

 

[seminole97]

I'd say Ukraine keeping it country is a huge win, especially if I was Ukrainian. Ukraine has the most modern military in Europe now.

They surely have the largest (behind Russia), but they're made up of Soviet and NATO hand me downs, so I don't think you could consider it the most 'modern'.
Unless you meant the drone scene, where I would bet they're ahead of everyone else in terms of what they're making, and have the capacity to employ (tactics, TOE, etc.). The rest of the world I think would be playing catch up there.

 

[DPUboiler]

In hindsight....all restrictions on weapons use inside Russia should have been granted before Ukraine's 2023 spring offensive.

Turned into a meat grinder failure and Ukraine hasn't really recovered from those loses. Been basically a stalemate ever since.

Lifting restrictions might have made a difference.

Hey look everyone - here comes bins just in time to shit on the job done during the Biden administration and totally ignore Trump inviting Putin to the White House.

 

[h-hawk]

A flashback.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Hey look everyone - here comes bins just in time to shit on the job done during the Biden administration and totally ignore Trump inviting Putin to the White House.

Weird interpretation.

 

[SA_Hawk]

Ukraine keeping its sovereignty is what this was all about. I will still be furious if Russia gets to keep any land gained.

Does Ukraine get to keep the land it gained into Russia? Someone is going to have to give up something for this to end.

 

[Bonerfarts]

Does Ukraine get to keep the land it gained into Russia? Someone is going to have to give up something for this to end.

Maybe, probably a good starting point for negotiations. Russia isn't coming to the table with a lot of leverage at the moment. Their economy is tanking, 50% of their oil refineries have been hit by drone strikes in the last few months. Russia will have to make its own concessions at some point, Ukraine is more than willing to keep striking inside Russia if they don't come to an agreement.

 

[Tiny Hands Trump]

Does Ukraine get to keep the land it gained into Russia? Someone is going to have to give up something for this to end.

Last I saw was the Trump admin proposal would have Ukraine giving up its gains while Russia kept all theirs. If so it is a complete capitulation on our part.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Last I saw was the Trump admin proposal would have Ukraine giving up its gains while Russia kept all theirs. If so it is a complete capitulation on our part.

Ukraine is not going accept anything that they didn't negotiate. Nor should they.

 

[NoWokeBloke]

You all are some ignorant mofos. LMAO

 

[DFSNOLE]

You all are some ignorant mofos. LMAO

 

[h-hawk]

You all are some ignorant mofos. LMAO

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]

A positive summary.

 

[seminole97]

Ukraine is not going accept anything that they didn't negotiate. Nor should they.

They're looking at a worse deal than what was on the table in April '22.

 

[GES4]

They're looking at a worse deal than what was on the table in April '22.

According to who? Trump and Putin?

 

[seminole97]

According to who? Trump and Putin?

Ukrainian lead negotiator (at this point) Davyd Arakhamia stated in an interview on 24 November 2023 that the neutral status of Ukraine was the key Russian demand during the negotiations and that the western countries were aware of the negotiations and advised Ukraine not to rely on security guarantees.

Arahamia's direct speech: "They really hoped almost until the last that they would pressure us into signing such an agreement so that we would accept neutrality. This was the biggest thing for them. They were ready to end the war if we accepted – like Finland once did – neutrality and gave a commitment that we would not join NATO. In fact, the key point was this. Everything else is cosmetic and political "seasonings" about denazification, the Russian-speaking population, and blah-blah-blah."

 

[Bonerfarts]

They're looking at a worse deal than what was on the table in April '22.

Putin got greedy and expanded his demands.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/

 

[Joes Place]

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Guess what's happening in America this month, too....

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]

 

[Joes Place]

Ukraine had a reputation before this war.

And then they kicked the Russian puppet out.

 

[Joes Place]

Fastest growing group of millionaires in SoFla currently is Ukrainians.

Izzat what Twitter tells you these days?

 

[Joes Place]

You're missing quite a lot. 49% of the Ukrainian people want to be with Russia.

Is that what Elno and Putin tell you?

 

[Joes Place]

Half of Ukrainians Want Quick, Negotiated End to War

Ukrainians are growing increasingly weary of the war with Russia. Gallup's latest surveys of Ukraine show 52% would like to see the war end as soon as possible.

news.gallup.com

This doesn't state what you said above.

 

[GES4]

Ukrainian lead negotiator (at this point) Davyd Arakhamia stated in an interview on 24 November 2023 that the neutral status of Ukraine was the key Russian demand during the negotiations and that the western countries were aware of the negotiations and advised Ukraine not to rely on security guarantees.

Arahamia's direct speech: "They really hoped almost until the last that they would pressure us into signing such an agreement so that we would accept neutrality. This was the biggest thing for them. They were ready to end the war if we accepted – like Finland once did – neutrality and gave a commitment that we would not join NATO. In fact, the key point was this. Everything else is cosmetic and political "seasonings" about denazification, the Russian-speaking population, and blah-blah-blah."

Nothing in there about territory.

 

[Joes Place]

Time for Trump to fulfill his promise to stop the war, and especially US aid to Ukraine.

U should head over and fight for Putin if that's who you're backing here.

 

[Joes Place]

You seem to not understand that NATO "spending levels" are based on % GDP

Not every dollar the US spends on defense has to do with NATO, Cletus.

 

[Joes Place]

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Sink 'em first.

THEN issue that statement to the Kremlin.
That way, they know you're not ****ing around...

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

She's correct....

The European Union’s foreign policy chief, Kaja Kallas, expressed surprise that Hegseth and Trump had listed what appeared to be concessions to Russia even before talks have begun in earnest.

“We shouldn’t take anything off the table before the negotiations have even started, because it plays to Russia’s court,” she said. “Why are we giving them everything that they want even before the negotiations have been started? It’s appeasement. It has never worked.”

NATO allies insist Ukraine and Europe must be in peace talks as Trump touts Putin meeting

European governments are reeling after the Trump administration signaled that it is planning face-to-face talks with Russia on ending the war in Ukraine.

apnews.com

 

[DFSNOLE]

She's correct....

“We shouldn’t take anything off the table before the negotiations have even started, because it plays to Russia’s court,” she said. “Why are we giving them everything that they want even before the negotiations have been started? It’s appeasement. It has never worked.”

NATO allies insist Ukraine and Europe must be in peace talks as Trump touts Putin meeting

European governments are reeling after the Trump administration signaled that it is planning face-to-face talks with Russia on ending the war in Ukraine.

apnews.com

[/I]

Why? Anyone who has paid any attention at all already knows the answer.

 

[seminole97]

Putin got greedy and expanded his demands.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/

That was at the very outset, in February. The Russians had already 'officially' annexed Donetsk and Luhansk before the invasion, it was after the talks that stopped in April that the territorial claims increased to include Kherson and Zaporizhzhya oblasts (Sept ‘22).

Nothing in there about territory.

See above.

 

[Joes Place]

Pretty basic IMO. If we continue aid he'll go for a deal. He was banking on Trump ending support.

We'll see how it goes.

Congress can still continue support.

Will they?

 

[Joes Place]

Nazi will be a Nazi!

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His grandparents were in the Canadian Nazi party.

they left Canada after WWII, because it was too Woke for their tastes, so they moved to South Africa to be Nazis and racists.

#FACTS

 

[Joes Place]

What?

Your buddy is a Nazi.

Were you unaware of that fact?

 

[Joes Place]

Security guarantees are going to have to come from the west as Russia can’t be trusted.
Once the war is over help Ukraine rebuild and continue to arm them. If th EU wants them as a member so much the better. Even without NATO membership doing those things will make Russia reluctant to have another go…

Tell Russia to give back all the territory and Crimea and Ukraine will be barred from NATO.

Then, usher them into NATO overnight.

Easy Peasy.
Putie can Pout about it, or get destroyed by NATO's full forces.

 

[Joes Place]

Who decides who is far-right?

Facts do.

Nazis are Nazis, bro.

You've fallen in man-love with one of them.

 

[Joes Place]

"Israel began supplying weapons to the #Ukraine |r via #Rzeszów . Military cargo planes take off from a military airfield near the city of Beersheba."

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Israel ain't gonna sit back and watch when u partnering w/ Iran....

 

[Joes Place]

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This gonna confuse the MAGAs....

In Russia....DEI is GOOD!!!!