I'd be pretty ok with those responsible for these acts to be put into the ring with the Klitschkos for about ten rounds or death, whichever comes first.
This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
- Start date
This seems to be the latest front lines. I have to believe Putin's goal is to just hold on to what he has now, but I can't see anyway Ukraine will agree to either Russia keeping this, or a ceasefire that would freeze Russia's gains in place. I think that is why you have reports of both the UK and US facilitating Ukraine in gaining heavy armor and long range artillery. They're going to have to break through that "land bridge" and the occupied parts of the Donbas to end this. Click red dot if picture disappears.
Slap a nice table top on that and you have a great conversation piece.
Tank turret blown into 2nd story of home in rural Chernihiv, Ukraine.
- Sep 13, 2002
- 99,187
- 208,073
- 113
I picture Hitler in his bunker
Either you have drastically changed or I have.....I don't remember us agreeing on much, but maybe I'm misremembering it
This guy seems like a serious dude thinking about these issues in a serious way.
Makes me think about rereading the late Terrence De Pres' great book "The Survivors," which lays out the things in common that enabled camp survivors of genocide to survive the inhuman assaults they were subjected to. Strange to think about it in retrospect, as it was one of the first books I read as an undergraduate for my freshman seminar, and some of the last books I read as an undergraduate were an entire semester's worth of Soviet prison camp memoirs for my senior seminar.
Last edited:
I completely switched sides starting in 2006. I went from voting for Reagan and six times voting for members of the Bush family to voting for Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020.
Haven't seen this posted yet. Curious if anyone has seen anything to confirm or deny. After seeing the already documented war crimes I shudder at their fate if these are Ukr's.
I cannot imagine the level of guilt he is feeling. As the leader of his country, knowing he is doing everything he can to defend his people and country and then realizing he is dealing with an enemy that is able to willingly injure, rape, and kill children. That is the look of a man who has just realized what he is really up against. It will harden his and all Ukrainians resolve. My heart bleeds for the innocents caught up in this brutality.
Those are two good sources in that tweet. They usually have news before just about anyone else.
Absolutely. Average Russians, while proud of their heritage and country, aren't any less human than the average germans who were paraded through the concentration camps were.
About 1 month ago: Absolutely
Currently: They've proven themselves to be the shitstain on the modern world. Not hopeful.
It depends how many hours they spend watching the propaganda shows on the Russia One channel. I'm not being facetious with this answer. It's not the only factor but it is probably the most significant.
- Sep 13, 2002
- 99,187
- 208,073
- 113
Dehumanization works.
Plenty of Americans said they had zero issues with Abu Ghraib and torture, too.
It is an unfortunate aspect of human nature to be able to accept atrocities carried out against the "other."
"today it became known that in Mariupol in my area the Russian army used phosphorus bombs"
More than you may imagine. Most Russians - by virtue of decades under Soviet rule - are fairly sophisticated consumers and distributors of information.
Balls of steel. He refused to leave Kyiv, at a time when no one knew what the fate of the city would be.
2 images recently posted by the Russian conflict journalist “WarGonzo” show an alleged Wagner group contractor as he poses outside the Park Inn by Radisson Hotel in Donetsk. The Park Inn hotel is where the headquarters for the OSCE monitoring mission was previously located. This alleged contractor is wearing the classic Wagner group patch which can be seen clearly on image 2. It is however important to note that these patches are commercially available and a patch alone is not enough evidence to conclusively say he is fighting under Wagner group.
His kit is rather impressive compared to the average Russian soldier we have seen so far in this war and he appears to be armed with an AK-74M that’s been fitted with a Zenitco PT-1 stock and a B-33 top rail on which he has fitted an Eotech XPS holographic sight. Additionally, the rifle is also sporting a Zenitco B-10 rail as well as what appears to be a rather interesting Finnish Ase Utra Oy suppressor. This suppressor is made by a Finnish company based in Lehmo who are one of the largest suppressor manufacturers in the world and have been active since 1994. Russian special forces have been spotted using these Finnish suppressors on a number of occasions in the past, particularly SSO and FSB special purpose teams. The rifle is also fitted with what looks like a bipod foregrip, perhaps a product of CAA.
It should also be noted that one of the glaring signs that the invasion of Ukraine was imminent for long time analysts was the arrival of WarGonzo to Belarus as this “Journalist” always seems to get scoops and locations from accurate sources within Russia. He spent the entire 44 day war between Armenia and Azerbaijan on the ground with Armenian forces.
I can't remember if this has been discussed but the Wagner Group is known for committing heinous war crimes anywhere Putin needs some dirty work done (e.g. Syria). I know they've been operating in UKR for awhile but thought I'd share this.
His kit is rather impressive compared to the average Russian soldier we have seen so far in this war and he appears to be armed with an AK-74M that’s been fitted with a Zenitco PT-1 stock and a B-33 top rail on which he has fitted an Eotech XPS holographic sight. Additionally, the rifle is also sporting a Zenitco B-10 rail as well as what appears to be a rather interesting Finnish Ase Utra Oy suppressor. This suppressor is made by a Finnish company based in Lehmo who are one of the largest suppressor manufacturers in the world and have been active since 1994. Russian special forces have been spotted using these Finnish suppressors on a number of occasions in the past, particularly SSO and FSB special purpose teams. The rifle is also fitted with what looks like a bipod foregrip, perhaps a product of CAA.
It should also be noted that one of the glaring signs that the invasion of Ukraine was imminent for long time analysts was the arrival of WarGonzo to Belarus as this “Journalist” always seems to get scoops and locations from accurate sources within Russia. He spent the entire 44 day war between Armenia and Azerbaijan on the ground with Armenian forces.
I can't remember if this has been discussed but the Wagner Group is known for committing heinous war crimes anywhere Putin needs some dirty work done (e.g. Syria). I know they've been operating in UKR for awhile but thought I'd share this.
Last edited:
Someone posted a population chart stratified by age a couple of pages back. Just eyeballing it, I don't think most Russians have spent decades under Soviet rule.
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
Agree with this. I think two other factors are at play as well:
- it is human nature to accept a convenient lie if it confirms your biases and allows you to sleep at night. The “Ukrainians are Nazis” allows the Russians the moral certainty to look the other way and hide from the actual ground truth
- I suspect many Russians are scared to speak their mind for fear of jail or worse. It has quickly become a repressive regime and we may not realize just how many Russians are against the war.
No, of course not, but there are longstanding cultural traditions that don't die off at the flick of a switch and do get passed between generations. Just like, for example, their tradition of living in autocratic systems.
When you are Russian, there is actually a technique to reading a newspaper - you focus heavily on the placement of things on the page(s) as much as the language and headlines. The same rules apply to the "unofficial" government news outlets now. Similarly, some of the great works of Russian literature were disseminated well before their publication through a tradition known as samizdat (where you are given something to read on the understanding that you will make a copy and pass on to another person). Those sorts of practices die hard.
Information moves just fine. But like most people around the world, most russians aren't all that excited about popping their head up out of a foxhole when the FSB is looking right at them. And that is yet another long tradition.
Last edited:
Good point on Abu Ghraib.
I still recall the anger over the MyLai massacre and Lt. Calley.
Actually, not, but it's way too complicated a story to be told through a couple of twitter pictures.
It's hard to say what the average Russian believes about anything. It's not like anyone is going to put their face on camera and say they're against the war lest they wind up in the Gulag. If someone forces a camera in their face and they feel they have to speak, they're going to say something offensive and hope it's good enough.
At the same time we've seen how well propaganda and cults of personality work over the last few years. There are MAGA supporters who I see constantly clamoring for a civil war that is bound to happen and how the liberals are going to get theirs, who cheer loudly at Trump's worship fests when he tells them to hurt people and he'll pay their bail, and who were willing to storm our nation's capital and attack police officers (Who they all claim to support) in the name of Trump.
Unfortunately Propaganda works. Large amounts of humans are willing to overlook terrible things as long as they can find some checkbox to say they have the high ground. They don't have to dig too deep and can just point to that.
I mean heck, Christians think a God who would torture people in fire for eternity is a good and Holy thing. I did too for a long time until I was forced to actually analyze things. So many people I know don't want to be forced to think too deeply. As long as they get to check off one moral superiority box they can overlook everything else. Hence Republicans and abortion. As long as Democrats are murdering babies they will always support Republicans. It's nonsense, but it's the way it is.
At the same time we've seen how well propaganda and cults of personality work over the last few years. There are MAGA supporters who I see constantly clamoring for a civil war that is bound to happen and how the liberals are going to get theirs, who cheer loudly at Trump's worship fests when he tells them to hurt people and he'll pay their bail, and who were willing to storm our nation's capital and attack police officers (Who they all claim to support) in the name of Trump.
Unfortunately Propaganda works. Large amounts of humans are willing to overlook terrible things as long as they can find some checkbox to say they have the high ground. They don't have to dig too deep and can just point to that.
I mean heck, Christians think a God who would torture people in fire for eternity is a good and Holy thing. I did too for a long time until I was forced to actually analyze things. So many people I know don't want to be forced to think too deeply. As long as they get to check off one moral superiority box they can overlook everything else. Hence Republicans and abortion. As long as Democrats are murdering babies they will always support Republicans. It's nonsense, but it's the way it is.
Not buying it. Certainly not Azov guys or marines. How they would ever think the Russians wouldn’t kill them is the real question. I’ve seen several comments on Twitter questioning the authenticity of this story.
And it’s also very sad that such a small group of rabble rousers are able to convince others they speak for a much larger group who actually don’t hold those beliefs.
Obama made the consistent western politician mistake of westernizing Putin’s thought process. He also refused to allow lethal aid to Ukraine, even after Putin took Donbas and Crimea.
Trump allowed lethal aid and then wanted a quid pro quo with dirt on Biden in return.
But the worst of all are Germany and France. They blocked Ukraine joining NATO in 2008 and have coddled Russia for at least 30 years.
And here we are. The pattern of Europeans ****ing up Europe is alive and well.
Bulgaria has not, at least publicly, supplied any weapons to Ukraine so far. They have a sizable pro-Russia, anti-Western block of citizens. Their government has been walking a very middle of the road path about the war so far, even though it is very pro-Nato. Hopefully these can make their way to Ukraine soon.
You know, it really brings the room together.Tank turret blown into 2nd story of home in rural Chernihiv, Ukraine.
Latest posts
-
-
Brauns, Mulvey Taking Advantage of Added Minutes Down the Stretch- Latest: Eliot Clough
-
-
-