This team will beat Iowa State

[rufus-hawk]

Marble was brutal on last second shots. I think someone posted a stat once on his FG percentage on shots at the end of the game to win or tie, and it was really bad. That being said, I think ISU beats us by 15 or more. Morris is going to destroy our guards with dribble penetration.

Although I think a closer game is possible, I mostly agree.
The Hawks need to make strides on defense or a blowout is possible. Too many easy buckets have been surrendered thus far in the season. Need to cut back on turnovers and other sloppy play yo have a chance. Niang will get his points, too.

 

[HawkLogic]

of course Iowa has a chance. However, if ISU gets the same refs they had at their place 2 years ago, it is snowball's chance in heck. I think Niang drew about 10 fouls on Iowa guys.

Iowa has some potential to be good, but right now we are not great defensive team, not great rebounding team. We are improved 3ball shooting team vs years past. We lack dribble drive guys.

Woody can defend Niang well in post, but last year Hoiberg had Niang go out to 3pt line and Woody couldn't guard him out there.

 

[KeyWest Tim]

Sorry, but anyone who wants to put $100 on that let me know.

They are at a different level.

 

[RocknRollface]

of course Iowa has a chance. However, if ISU gets the same refs they had at their place 2 years ago, it is snowball's chance in heck. I think Niang drew about 10 fouls on Iowa guys.

Iowa has some potential to be good, but right now we are not great defensive team, not great rebounding team. We are improved 3ball shooting team vs years past. We lack dribble drive guys.

Woody can defend Niang well in post, but last year Hoiberg had Niang go out to 3pt line and Woody couldn't guard him out there.

Niang plays the 4 now, so he'll be matched up on Uthoff which should be very interesting.

I'm sure Uhl and Wagner will spend a little time gaurding him too. Hopefully no Woodbury.

 

[Lone Clone]

Iowa State is a significantly better team and would win a majority of games against Iowa, especially in Hilton. I think every sane person on this board would agree with that statement. But it's a long, long way from saying that to saying ISU definitely will win.

1. ISU is going to lose some games this year, and the first loss is going to be a major upset. When one team is ranked in the top 5 and the opponent isn't ranked, a loss is, per se, a major upset. I think both Iowa and UNI are capable of the upset.

2. ISU is, as noted, not a deep team. The Cyclones have done a better job than most teams so far this year adapting to the new interpretation of the foul rules, but if somebody picks up some quick fouls, it's a significant thing.

3. ISU has not shot free throws well as a team, and McKay has been abysmal. I think he's under 20% for the year, and he's gone to the line more than any of his teammates.

4. ISU has shown a tendency, both this season and last, to play lackadaisical for awhile and then straighten up and win. The Colorado, Illinois and North Dakota State games were all closer than the scores would indicate. Last year in the Big XII tournament, ISU trailed by double digits in the second half of all three games -- including by 18 in the second half against KU in the title game -- and came back to win. But they weren't able to do it against UAB.

5. Having said that, and going back to the OP, I can't think of a matchup in which the Iowa player would be favored. Maybe Uthoff against Nader, if Uthoff brings his "A" game, but that isn't assured.

6. If Iowa is shooting outside better than average, and ISU is shooting worse than average, the Hawks might very well win.

 

[Lone Clone]

I believe Iowa CAN beat and play with Iowa State, although its hard to argue that they seem to play with more swagger and confidence then our guys. I think last nights win was BIG in that hopefully our guys were able to gain some confidence and know that they can win each and every time they step out onto the floor.

Would love to see our guys play much more fearless and we absolutely cannot make lazy passes.

Florida State was a lot like Iowa State in that they will want to up-tempo the hell out of us and I agree I don't see them clunking the open threes like the Seminoles did.

Wont lie, kind of nervous about the game against the clones. Is it just me... cannot stand how cocky Nader plays and acts. I hope our play wipes the shit-eating-grin off his face

Guess we will find out soon enough if these guys are up to Hilton challenge but first things first lets win the game on Saturday (both games on Saturday would be nice)

I think you mean Niang, not Nader.

 

[CyCity]

I believe Iowa CAN beat and play with Iowa State, although its hard to argue that they seem to play with more swagger and confidence then our guys. I think last nights win was BIG in that hopefully our guys were able to gain some confidence and know that they can win each and every time they step out onto the floor.

Would love to see our guys play much more fearless and we absolutely cannot make lazy passes.

Florida State was a lot like Iowa State in that they will want to up-tempo the hell out of us and I agree I don't see them clunking the open threes like the Seminoles did.

Wont lie, kind of nervous about the game against the clones. Is it just me... cannot stand how cocky Nader plays and acts. I hope our play wipes the shit-eating-grin off his face

Guess we will find out soon enough if these guys are up to Hilton challenge but first things first lets win the game on Saturday (both games on Saturday would be nice)

As an ISU fan I don't know that I've ever even seen Nader smile on the basketball court. Niang on the other hand loves to

 

[CyCity]

McKay is as good as a Niang? Is that the implication?

No, just responding that Woodbury doesn't always hold players to 8-10 pts. McKay is a hard match up for him IMO, especially with ISU pushing tempo. I think Woodbury matches up better with more polished bigs instead of players like McKay

 

[nameloc]

I think we match up very well with them. We will right the ship this year.

Go Hawks!

What are you smoking!

 

[Curt Furence]

I haven't read through all of this, but I think for the Hawks to win this they need to play a really clean game. Gesell needs to play well imo. We saw how they looked with him in foul trouble in the Dayton game.
Also, last year Niang was struggling in the first half and Iowa couldn't do anything to pull away. I think Iowa has a chance, but they need Niang or one of the other guys to not play very well and someone, Jok or Uthoff probably to go off and have a big night.

 

[Myvue]

ISU didn't have McKay or Dejean-Jones in the game at Iowa last year but Nader came through in a big way scoring 19 points on 4-6 threes. McKay couldn't play until the start of the second semester. Probably the best game for Nader other than the Clones last game as Nader can often times play like a bull in a china closet. Reeking havoc but not always the good kind.

 

[Cydkar]

If ISU gets in foul trouble hell yes they could lose. If they stay out of foul trouble Iowa will have to play nearly flawless. Too many teams have lost on their home court this year for me to be comfortable about this one.

I am curious to see how Long shoots Monday night. The back-to-back games in the recent tournament showed that he needs rest between games as far as his shooting is concerned.

They were coasting vs. NDSU so I take very little from that game.

 

[KeyWest Tim]

I don't see their limited roster as a big issue with Isu.

It is true, but now they can go 7 players, with another quality guy to join them in a week or so. Not big, but aggressive.

The thing with them is even if they are playing their 7-8 guys, the other starters are good enough to step up and pick up the slack.

But we shall see.

 

[Lone Clone]

If ISU gets in foul trouble hell yes they could lose. If they stay out of foul trouble Iowa will have to play nearly flawless. Too many teams have lost on their home court this year for me to be comfortable about this one.

I am curious to see how Long shoots Monday night. The back-to-back games in the recent tournament showed that he needs rest between games as far as his shooting is concerned.

They were coasting vs. NDSU so I take very little from that game.

Coasting? Hell, they were behind, coach.

 

[Lone Clone]

I don't see their limited roster as a big issue with Isu.

It is true, but now they can go 7 players, with another quality guy to join them in a week or so. Not big, but aggressive.

The thing with them is even if they are playing their 7-8 guys, the other starters are good enough to step up and pick up the slack.

But we shall see.

Larry's Elite Eight team only went 7 deep: Horton, Nurse, Tinsley, Johnson & Fizer, with Shirley and Rancik off the bench.

 

[Lone Clone]

ISU didn't have McKay or Dejean-Jones in the game at Iowa last year but Nader came through in a big way scoring 19 points on 4-6 threes. McKay couldn't play until the start of the second semester. Probably the best game for Nader other than the Clones last game as Nader can often times play like a bull in a china closet. Reeking havoc but not always the good kind.

That was last year. So far this year he may be the most consistently productive player after Monte.

 

[Ronman]

You wouldn't be the first team to do it. What's great about Georges is that if he and his team loses to the Hawks he will own up and tip his hat to your team. He's just a great dude.

Yeah, Niang showed what a classy guy he was last year on our floor.

 

[Herkster5]

Yeah, Niang showed what a classy guy he was last year on our floor.

Are you really still complaining about him blowing a kiss to the crowd? It's a rival game, played by 18-22 year old's with attitude. That is what makes it fun, and makes us hate them at the same time.

I say ISU by 10, as I just don't see that we have the horses to keep up. They shoot the ball as well as any team does, and also push it up the court very well. As mentioned, we'd have to play an extremely clean game, limit dumb turnovers, and be shooting lights out from the 3 pt line to win. Could it happen? Yep. Do I hope it does? Hell yes. I'd love nothing more than to see them lose their first game to us, on their home court. Hilton magic my ass

McKay is a tough match up, as is Niang. I think Uthoff could do a great job defending him, and hopefully he does. His length would bother Niangs shooting flow enough to possibly throw him off, and Uthoff is quicker on his feet than Niang is as well.

But, I guess we'll have to wait and see!

 

[Cydkar]

Larry's Elite Eight team only went 7 deep: Horton, Nurse, Tinsley, Johnson & Fizer, with Shirley and Rancik off the bench.

People say this and forget to mention that a foul was a different animal back then. That team was physical...and could be.

 

[RocknRollface]

No, just responding that Woodbury doesn't always hold players to 8-10 pts. McKay is a hard match up for him IMO, especially with ISU pushing tempo. I think Woodbury matches up better with more polished bigs instead of players like McKay

If you were responding to me, you misread. I didn't say Woodbury holds people to anything.

I said he holds his own, gets his 8 -10 points and rebounds and plays good D, as well as a bunch of other things that don't show up in stats.

I can guarantee you no one will walk away from that game thinking Woodbury was over matched against McKay even though McKay may outscore him.

 

[Lone Clone]

People say this and forget to mention that a foul was a different animal back then. That team was physical...and could be.

True. But our guys seem to have adjusted to the new emphasis very well so far.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Iowa State is a significantly better team and would win a majority of games against Iowa, especially in Hilton. I think every sane person on this board would agree with that statement. But it's a long, long way from saying that to saying ISU definitely will win.

1. ISU is going to lose some games this year, and the first loss is going to be a major upset. When one team is ranked in the top 5 and the opponent isn't ranked, a loss is, per se, a major upset. I think both Iowa and UNI are capable of the upset.

2. ISU is, as noted, not a deep team. The Cyclones have done a better job than most teams so far this year adapting to the new interpretation of the foul rules, but if somebody picks up some quick fouls, it's a significant thing.

3. ISU has not shot free throws well as a team, and McKay has been abysmal. I think he's under 20% for the year, and he's gone to the line more than any of his teammates.

4. ISU has shown a tendency, both this season and last, to play lackadaisical for awhile and then straighten up and win. The Colorado, Illinois and North Dakota State games were all closer than the scores would indicate. Last year in the Big XII tournament, ISU trailed by double digits in the second half of all three games -- including by 18 in the second half against KU in the title game -- and came back to win. But they weren't able to do it against UAB.

5. Having said that, and going back to the OP, I can't think of a matchup in which the Iowa player would be favored. Maybe Uthoff against Nader, if Uthoff brings his "A" game, but that isn't assured.

6. If Iowa is shooting outside better than average, and ISU is shooting worse than average, the Hawks might very well win.

Since I like your posts so much, LC, I'll chime in here a bit.

1. Correct me if I'm wrong but the last team to go undefeated was the '76 Hoosiers? So I would say that's probably a safe bet that ISU will lose a few. When and where obviously to be determined. I personally don't see ISU not being up for either Iowa or UNI, in terms of a slip, but stranger things have happened.

2. Yes, but ISU isn't the first team in college basketball history to only go 7 deep or whatever they rotate and still win. I believe Lute Olsen's Iowa teams were notorious for having a thin bench.

3. Iowa didn't look too great at the charity stripe against FSU. I would also add that two years ago in Ames free throw shooting down the stretch cost Iowa that game. I mention the game two years ago because the main culprit will be starting at PG Thursday (Mike Gesell).

4. True, but I doubt they will have focus issues against Iowa. But who knows, as someone pointed out, they are due for an "off game" against Iowa.

5. You'll probably argue this but I think potential and talent-wise Uthoff is the best player that will be on the floor Thursday. Production-wise, he is about the 5th.

6. True. And I think the only chance Iowa has of pulling out an upset win is if they are playing their "A game" (like at Marquette) and ISU is playing like they did against N. Dak St. Another way of putting it: if the game was played at Hilton 10 times, Iowa might win 2.

The good news (at least for Hawkeye fans): Iowa basketball is just going to keep getting better for the foreseeable future.

 

[Lone Clone]

Since I like your posts so much, LC, I'll chime in here a bit.

1. Correct me if I'm wrong but the last team to go undefeated was the '76 Hoosiers? So I would say that's probably a safe bet that ISU will lose a few. When and where obviously to be determined. I personally don't see ISU not being up for either Iowa or UNI, in terms of a slip, but stranger things have happened.

2. Yes, but ISU isn't the first team in college basketball history to only go 7 deep or whatever they rotate and still win. I believe Lute Olsen's Iowa teams were notorious for having a thin bench.

3. Iowa didn't look too great at the charity stripe against FSU. I would also add that two years ago in Ames free throw shooting down the stretch cost Iowa that game. I mention the game two years ago because the main culprit will be starting at PG Thursday (Mike Gesell).

4. True, but I doubt they will have focus issues against Iowa. But who knows, as someone pointed out, they are due for an "off game" against Iowa.

5. You'll probably argue this but I think potential and talent-wise Uthoff is the best player that will be on the floor Thursday. Production-wise, he is about the 5th.

6. True. And I think the only chance Iowa has of pulling out an upset win is if they are playing their "A game" (like at Marquette) and ISU is playing like they did against N. Dak St. Another way of putting it: if the game was played at Hilton 10 times, Iowa might win 2.

The good news (at least for Hawkeye fans): Iowa basketball is just going to keep getting better for the foreseeable future.

1. I think you're right about the Hoosiers, and gracious sakes, the idea of ISU going unbeaten never even occurred to me. I was just trying to point out that by definition, the loss(es) will be upsets.
2. I think a deep bench can be overrated. And while it won't help for the Iowa game, the addition of Burton should ease that concern considerably.
3. True.
4. No, they won't have focus issues. Also, if you think they are due for an off game against Iowa, you haven't been paying attention. They played probably their worst game of the season against Iowa in Niang's freshman year, and they didn't play very well in the win at Hilton two years ago. Hell, they weren't very good in the first half last year. Everybody (on both sides) remembers the first 10-12 minutes of the second half.
5. You're right. I would argue. I have always been very high on Uthoff. He's hands-down Iowa's best player. ISU recruited him pretty hard twice. He may have more pro potential than Niang. I think he probably would start for ISU, maybe taking Naz's place. But right now I wouldn't trade Niang, Morris or Nader for him, and of course McKay is a different kind of player altogether.
6. I wouldn't disagree with that assessment, although I'd put it another way: If ISU plays near its potential, it will win.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

If the shoe was on the other foot, I wouldn't trade for Uthoff either. But I think you recognize that Uthoff has the best pro potential of all players mentioned because of his size (6'9) and athletic ability. He is also a very deadly shooter and can create his own shot from anywhere on the floor. It will really be a matter of how bad he wants to take his game to the next level.

I think Niang is great but Long has a better chance of being successful at the next level than he does. Niang is going to run into the same problem Fizer did--not big enough to be a 4, not skilled enough to be a 3.

 

[Cydkar]

ISU only has one player who will sniff the NBA and that's Morris. Even with that I think he's a career back up type.

 

[hooper56]

Certainly ISU should win on paper. Top 5 team playing at home. But I think the Hawks can cause ISU some foul problems and if the cyclones have to go deep into their bench it favors the Hawks. But I'll be honest. Monte Morris scares the hell out of me. That cat can really play.

 

[sanjosebill]

IMO Iowa's roster was much better 2 years ago with Marble, White and Olaseni. All 3 of those guys were upperclassmen. I don't see the roster this year as good as 2013-14

 

[Myvue]

Iowa State only lost two non conference games at Hilton in Fred's five years coaching going 40-2 with a loss to California in the Big12/then Pac 10 challenge in 2010 and to UNI in 2011.

Being a first time basketball coach and ISU was exceptionally undermanned in Fred's first season he went 3-5 in conference games.

ISU went 8-1 in Big 12 home games in each of the Cyclones last four seasons losing to

#9 Missouri in 2011

#6 Kansas in overtime in 2012

#15 Kansas again in 2013 when ISU was ranked #8

and to unranked Baylor in 2014

The odds were strongly against Hilton losses in Fred's era, but the new coach maybe isn't aware yet of the tougher competition than he faced at his former school.

If Iowa can pull off a win at Hilton they will be one of the few teams to accomplish that in the last five seasons plus their 4-0 home record this season. Let the game begin.

 

[RocknRollface]

If the shoe was on the other foot, I wouldn't trade for Uthoff either. But I think you recognize that Uthoff has the best pro potential of all players mentioned because of his size (6'9) and athletic ability. He is also a very deadly shooter and can create his own shot from anywhere on the floor. It will really be a matter of how bad he wants to take his game to the next level.

I think Niang is great but Long has a better chance of being successful at the next level than he does. Niang is going to run into the same problem Fizer did--not big enough to be a 4, not skilled enough to be a 3.

Niang isn't athletic enough to play in the nba at his size.

 

[RocknRollface]

IMO Iowa's roster was much better 2 years ago with Marble, White and Olaseni. All 3 of those guys were upperclassmen. I don't see the roster this year as good as 2013-14

That team was great in transition but that's all they could do, they had basically no jump shooting outside of a streaky at best Marble.

They were brutal in the half court. To many post players on the court together.

This team is better and has allot more scoring options.

 

[Lone Clone]

If the shoe was on the other foot, I wouldn't trade for Uthoff either. But I think you recognize that Uthoff has the best pro potential of all players mentioned because of his size (6'9) and athletic ability. He is also a very deadly shooter and can create his own shot from anywhere on the floor. It will really be a matter of how bad he wants to take his game to the next level.

I think Niang is great but Long has a better chance of being successful at the next level than he does. Niang is going to run into the same problem Fizer did--not big enough to be a 4, not skilled enough to be a 3.

I don't want somebody to come back in a couple of weeks and claim that I bad-mouthed Uthoff. Again, I think he's a very good player and I wish he'd been smart enough to follow his uncle to Ames.

I also like Gesell and Jok, but I don't think they would start at ISU this year. Fred recruited both of them, too.

 

[thirdandpunting]

Just paroozing the FANTASTIC Hawkeye Report message boards. See the 1,000,000,000,000th thread about Iowa State and think to myself... "Did Lone Clone pay the OP to post something about ISU? So he can just wax fantastic about ISU basketball on HR?"

I open the thread and LC has written a short story, approaching a novel about ISU supremacy. He's been chopping at the bit as the football team hasn't lost.

My point...

Can we focus here people? Why egg this curmudgeon on? Stupid ISU banter is what this guy lives for.

or

Mods delete LCs second account in which he poses as an Iowa fan, says something negative about ISU allowing him to put his dumb head in front of his dumb computer to say something probably half way reasonable about ISU.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Iowa can play with anyone if they start controlling the defensive board. We have no chance against ISU if they get 19 offensive rebounds, like FSU. We also need to take good shots and keep balance on the court to minimize run outs. It is going to be a very tough task, but Iowa definitely has a chance.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Niang isn't athletic enough to play in the nba at his size.

Isn't that basically what I said?

 

[EZ2BJZ]

I don't want somebody to come back in a couple of weeks and claim that I bad-mouthed Uthoff. Again, I think he's a very good player and I wish he'd been smart enough to follow his uncle to Ames.

I also like Gesell and Jok, but I don't think they would start at ISU this year. Fred recruited both of them, too.

Not the way I was taking it. Do you think I was bad-mouthing Niang because I don't think he'll fit in the NBA?

 

[sanjosebill]

Might be a better shooting team but that team was much better rebounding, defending and overall more athletic. And much deeper bench

That team was great in transition but that's all they could do, they had basically no jump shooting outside of a streaky at best Marble.

They were brutal in the half court. To many post players on the court together.

This team is better and has allot more scoring options.

 

[DanL53]

Might be a better shooting team but that team was much better rebounding, defending and overall more athletic. And much deeper bench

What makes you think the 2013/14 teams was a good defensive team? They finished 120th on KenPom in defensive efficiency. This year's team is currently rated 25th.

 

[Lone Clone]

Just paroozing the FANTASTIC Hawkeye Report message boards. See the 1,000,000,000,000th thread about Iowa State and think to myself... "Did Lone Clone pay the OP to post something about ISU? So he can just wax fantastic about ISU basketball on HR?"

I open the thread and LC has written a short story, approaching a novel about ISU supremacy. He's been chopping at the bit as the football team hasn't lost.

My point...

Can we focus here people? Why egg this curmudgeon on? Stupid ISU banter is what this guy lives for.

or

Mods delete LCs second account in which he poses as an Iowa fan, says something negative about ISU allowing him to put his dumb head in front of his dumb computer to say something probably half way reasonable about ISU.

The "ignore" button isn't all that hard to master. Get a tutor to work with you on it. As for me, I'm just going to click it.

 

[Lone Clone]

Not the way I was taking it. Do you think I was bad-mouthing Niang because I don't think he'll fit in the NBA?

No, no, no. I also doubt that he is an NBA type player. I'm glad he isn't. I love the idea of having a player who's good enough to make all-America but not good enough to leave school for the NBA early.

 

[Jim4edwards]

Just paroozing the FANTASTIC Hawkeye Report message boards. See the 1,000,000,000,000th thread about Iowa State and think to myself... "Did Lone Clone pay the OP to post something about ISU? So he can just wax fantastic about ISU basketball on HR?"

I open the thread and LC has written a short story, approaching a novel about ISU supremacy. He's been chopping at the bit as the football team hasn't lost.

My point...

Can we focus here people? Why egg this curmudgeon on? Stupid ISU banter is what this guy lives for.

or

Mods delete LCs second account in which he poses as an Iowa fan, says something negative about ISU allowing him to put his dumb head in front of his dumb computer to say something probably half way reasonable about ISU.

Can we not have a respectable rivalry where we appreciate both teams? Do you have to hate ISU outside of their matches against the Hawks? I'm not saying everyone should, but why can't those of us who want to talk civilly about these things do so? Not like the board is overrun with ISU banter..