Throwing a chair, challenge cube and red carded ...

[rossel 33]

Willie, I currently subscribe to FLO and the recent WTTs stream was almost flawless. Your ratings are excellent. You guys have done some great documentaries. You have a sense of humor. Also, I believe some on this board may see a conspiracy when there is none. So on the whole... kudos to you.

But...

I remember ~ a year ago, you and CP were discussing how great PSU and Cael were doing, winning ncaa titles. You went on and on about Cael has shown he develops wrestlers better than anyone, with the proof being in the bonus point production at ncaas... far surpassing everyone else.

CP mentioned the fact that Cael is starting with such a high level of talent, and you interrupted saying "that's just whining."

You added "there are a lot of doubters in Iowa's program." CP replied "It may just be propaganda."

You countered with "Look at the bonus points PSU is racking up."

In another section, iirc, you mentioned how "you'll be the best you can be, if you go to PSU." Okie St and tOSU were also mentioned as places to get good coaching, but not Iowa.

You've downgraded PSU's recruiting class in 2016, despite pulling in an unprecedented #1, #2, and #5, to beneath NC St, because PSU wouldn't have room to start all of studs.

It seems very apparent you're a big PSU/Cael fan. I don't have a problem with being a fan, but it does color your comments, imho.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

Are you saying I'm one of you? If so, say it....I want to hear you say it...

My dear Hawkeye brethren, we have something to agree on, this gentleman is annoying....to both sides. Hear me sayin' it?

 

[Mpchillin]

yep. We love Penn State. Hate Iowa.

we spin and time everything to pass along this agenda.

you guys nailed it.

While you're here, I ran through and updated your 15 year study on which team performs the best at certain weights. I replaced the points from 2002 with the points from 2017. The only changes I saw in top teams are that Iowa is now 125 U (jumping Cornell), 133 U (jumping Okie State and Minnesota) and 149 U (jumping Okie State) while Minnesota overcame ISU as 197 U. I did it rather quickly, so if my results are off, let me know.

 

[Jackhawk87]

While you're here, I ran through and updated your 15 year study on which team performs the best at certain weights. I replaced the points from 2002 with the points from 2017. The only changes I saw in top teams is Iowa is now 125 U (jumping Cornell), 133 U (jumping Okie State and Minnesota) and 149 U (jumping Okie State) while Minnesota overcame ISU as 197 U. I did it rather quickly, so if my results are off, let me know.

Pretty sure they won't update the stats this year.

 

[Mpchillin]

Pretty sure they won't update the stats this year.

I know, I just thought It would be f*** to go back and see if any changes were made to the top teams with new data. 4 out of 10 weights changed which surprised me.

 

[reddogg26]

Bottom line is if Tom or Terry did something like this message boards would go into meltdown....

Yea Taylor lost and honestly did not deserve to win the way he wrestled the last 2 minutes and then they all threw their little hissy fit.

 

[Descat1]

Willie, I currently subscribe to FLO and the recent WTTs stream was almost flawless. Your ratings are excellent. You guys have done some great documentaries. You have a sense of humor. Also, I believe some on this board may see a conspiracy when there is none. So on the whole... kudos to you.

But...

I remember ~ a year ago, you and CP were discussing how great PSU and Cael were doing, winning ncaa titles. You went on and on about Cael has shown he develops wrestlers better than anyone, with the proof being in the bonus point production at ncaas... far surpassing everyone else.

CP mentioned the fact that Cael is starting with such a high level of talent, and you interrupted saying "that's just whining."

You added "there are a lot of doubters in Iowa's program." CP replied "It may just be propaganda."

You countered with "Look at the bonus points PSU is racking up."

In another section, iirc, you mentioned how "you'll be the best you can be, if you go to PSU." Okie St and tOSU were also mentioned as places to get good coaching, but not Iowa.

You've downgraded PSU's recruiting class in 2016, despite pulling in an unprecedented #1, #2, and #5, to beneath NC St, because PSU wouldn't have room to start all of studs.

It seems very apparent you're a big PSU/Cael fan. I don't have a problem with being a fan, but it does color your comments, imho.

Willie:

As I stated in a prior post, I am a fan of FLO and have been a subscriber for a long time, but I do see a bias and I do believe it's real. I cited CP's interview with Tony at the end of the trials trying to dig up the Trials again, and insinuating that Tony had a better training situation at NC, since he left Iowa. I commented on you defending Cael when he was taking heat from coaches across the country for recruiting Teasdale after he had committed Iowa and you stated on a FRL that Cael really didn't recruit Teasdale and this is and was 100% wrong. Cael did recruit Gavin and he recruited him hard. I know this for a fact and the fact you defended him is another example of your bias. I believe that your team at FLO has an explicit bias that is readily evident in your coverage and if you can't admit to that then upon review of data, at least one must admit to an implicit bias that is there. The bottom line is that we all pay the same fee and we should be treated to fair and consistent program coverage. I understand Foley that writes opinion pages and he is adament in his support for PSU and in his disdain for the University of Iowa, but his pieces are mostly opinion pieces and it's hard to complain about that, because he is offering his thoughts and opinions, but FLO is covering the sport. The bias is real and it does exist and the only ones that will tout otherwise are the ones from Penn State that are benefiting from the boost from the enhanced coverage from the best source of wrestling information on the Web. On a personal level, all of you guys are great guys, but from a professional perspective, there is an inconsistency in how you talk about and cover Penn State.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Perhaps linking or showing the specific things that show the bias would help them realize that they do indeed show the bias. Many times people that have the bias in their approach are the last to see that they do.

 

[mike tognetti]

The term gringo also comes to mind. Was not meant to be a compliment to white people but has evolved into meaning any American. My Dad gets offended when my Mexican in laws call us gringos because he is old school...I don't. Their Mexican relatives from old Mexico call my in laws gringos.

I get the term "beaner, spic, wetback, n*gger" as being offensive but never got how Jap could be offensive except to remind people of WW2 and the propaganda posters of the "sneaky Jap." Even "Nip" was short for Nippon. We shorten everything here.

I have been told "slant eyes" won't offend those zipper heads! Just saying. Flo when Caels around except they have there mouth open

 

[el dub]

I have been told "slant eyes" won't offend those zipper heads! Just saying. Flo when Caels around except they have there mouth open

Mike: I am truly more dummer after reading what you wrote above.

 

[HawkeyeDenny]

DT should have been able to take down a guy who was at 60% capacity....he should blame himself for not getting the job done...

 

[Jts1990]

DT should have been able to take down a guy who was at 60% capacity....he should blame himself for not getting the job done...

I gotta go ahead and dispute your figure as it pertains to Cox's remaining capacity. Now... I did use Mark Hall's book on statistics but his past works seem to be quite accurate and reliable.

 

[NRJ]

These are real shockers from Foley today.

Taylor & Cael snippet
Overreaction? Maybe. Justified frustration? Yes

Gilman snippet
He was hyped, didn't know how to get the best response and reached into Pearl Harbor nomenclature to evoke a response from his audience. None of this is acceptable, but this is part of the Villain Gilman image that he was trying to cultivate and stays in-step with the recent increase in speak-your-mind philosophy prevalent in today's politics.

 

[Jts1990]

These are real shockers from Foley today.

Taylor & Cael snippet
Overreaction? Maybe. Justified frustration? Yes

Gilman snippet
He was hyped, didn't know how to get the best response and reached into Pearl Harbor nomenclature to evoke a response from his audience. None of this is acceptable, but this is part of the Villain Gilman image that he was trying to cultivate and stays in-step with the recent increase in speak-your-mind philosophy prevalent in today's politics.

Foleys take on Gilman is just straight up idiotic...

 

[dicemen99]

Foleys take on Gilman is just straight up idiotic...

Agreed, but not surprising from the source.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Foleys take on Gilman is just straight up idiotic...

Foley is an idiot, soooooooo, par for the course.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

These are real shockers from Foley today.

Taylor & Cael snippet
Overreaction? Maybe. Justified frustration? Yes

Gilman snippet
He was hyped, didn't know how to get the best response and reached into Pearl Harbor nomenclature to evoke a response from his audience. None of this is acceptable, but this is part of the Villain Gilman image that he was trying to cultivate and stays in-step with the recent increase in speak-your-mind philosophy prevalent in today's politics.

Just to be real clear, Cael assaulted the ref. In any other sport, he would be fined greatly and suspended.

 

[smalls103]

I truly, honestly don't get this board as it pertains to Flo sometimes.

i try to be part of the community here and the conversation, but i can't win.

i have to justify everything. it's like you guys want to be vilified. which i get. but own it.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

I truly, honestly don't get this board as it pertains to Flo sometimes.

i try to be part of the community here and the conversation, but i can't win.

i have to justify everything. it's like you guys want to be vilified. which i get. but own it.

As a wise man once said, "if you want everybody to like you, say nothing, be nothing, do nothing."

Otherwise, you aren't going to be able to win everybody over.

 

[Jts1990]

I truly, honestly don't get this board as it pertains to Flo sometimes.

i try to be part of the community here and the conversation, but i can't win.

i have to justify everything. it's like you guys want to be vilified. which i get. but own it.

Once you embrace the hate you'll love this board Willie.

 

[pish69]

Just to be real clear, Cael assaulted the ref. In any other sport, he would be fined greatly and suspended.

Just to be clear, you are kidding right?

 

[Chickenman Testa]

As a wise man once said, "if you want everybody to like you, say nothing, be nothing, do nothing."

Otherwise, you aren't going to be able to win everybody over.

SHP - everybody doesn't like you - they love you!

You, sir (and your famous abacus), are national treasures

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Just to be clear, you are kidding right?

No, not kidding. The law is very clear. What he did is an assault.

 

[pish69]

No, not kidding. The law is very clear. What he did is an assault.

Bring it to the police!! Lightly throwing a challenge brick (you do realize they are not really bricks?) and putting a chair up on a stage. I'm sure you have a case!

Pure gold

 

[Jts1990]

Bring it to the police!! Lightly throwing a challenge brick (you do realize they are not really bricks?) and putting a chair up on a stage. I'm sure you have a case!

Pure gold

Don't forget the towel. Those things can be deadly...

 

[rossel 33]

Don't forget the towel. Those things can be deadly...

if you roll it and snap it in the right place, it could be

 

[rossel 33]

Foleys take on Gilman is just straight up idiotic...

I think it's accepted that Gilman spoke more out of ignorance than out of trying to be nasty. He even apologized afterwards.

Willie, this isn't about cultivating a "bad guy" image. Foley is trying to make Gilman look like something he isn't.

Can you not see the difference?

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Bring it to the police!! Lightly throwing a challenge brick (you do realize they are not really bricks?) and putting a chair up on a stage. I'm sure you have a case!

Pure gold

He could throw a marshmallow at him, it doesn't matter, it is still an assault. If the ref wanted to prosecute him, he would be arrested. You need to enlighten yourself as to what an assault in this country consists of. Any unwanted touch is an assault, unfortunately.

 

[Jts1990]

He could throw a marshmallow at him, it doesn't matter, it is still an assault. If the ref wanted to prosecute him, he would be arrested. You need to enlighten yourself as to what an assault in this country consists of. Any unwanted touch is an assault, unfortunately.

Is a Gilman facemush assault?

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

He could throw a marshmallow at him, it doesn't matter, it is still an assault. If the ref wanted to prosecute him, he would be arrested. You need to enlighten yourself as to what an assault in this country consists of. Any unwanted touch is an assault, unfortunately.

I think you're technically right, but police are still going to take intent and subjectivity into consideration. There was that video from a week ago where the drunk Boston girl got arrested for spitting on a guy. She was also being extremely beligerant.

No cop is going to arrest Cael in that situation and rightfully so. That'd be tyrranical.

 

[Jts1990]

I think it's accepted that Gilman spoke more out of ignorance than out of trying to be nasty. He even apologized afterwards.

Willie, this isn't about cultivating a "bad guy" image. Foley is trying to make Gilman look like something he isn't.

Can you not see the difference?

I didn't think Willie cared much for Foley...

 

[cidhawkeye]

Is a Gilman facemush assault?

Only if it is paired with a retherford face mush

 

[cidhawkeye]

So have coaches in other sports been suspended for throwing things? Bob Knight? Heck he didn't even hit the official

 

[pish69]

No, not kidding. The law is very clear. What he did is an assault.

Maybe you're right. Just read Damion Hahn just finished doing 60 days hard time for the challenge brick he threw during the Dean/Downey match at the open.

He might have gotten a year if he threw the towel like Cael did

Smh that you are really doubling down on a absolute ridiculous assertion

 

[Chickenman Testa]

if you roll it and snap it in the right place, it could be

 

[Chuck C]

This thread has gone even further into the bizarre.

 

[championhawk]

Only if it is paired with a retherford face mush

Retherford is a dirty wrestler. His eye poking would make Adam Woodbury jealous. He also regularly torques the toes making his bow and arrow illegal. They never stop him but they always stop Cory Clark while doing a legal arm bar.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Maybe you're right. Just read Damion Hahn just finished doing 60 days hard time for the challenge brick he threw during the Dean/Downey match at the open.

He might have gotten a year if he threw the towel like Cael did

Smh that you are really doubling down on a absolute ridiculous assertion

Ok, I'll write this in crayon for you. Throwing and hitting someone, who doesn't want you to throw something at them is assault. It doesn't matter what it is unless it could cause serious injury or death. Then it would be battery or serious assault/
willful injury.

If the ref called the police and wanted to press charges, their hands would be tied. They would have to arrest him and let the prosecutor decide whether to press the charges.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

SHP - everybody doesn't like you - they love you!

You, sir (and your famous abacus), are national treasures

Thank you...but I could think of quite a few people who disagree!

 

[theIowaHawk]

Don't forget the towel. Those things can be deadly...

Speaking just technically, throwing a bar rag is assault and has been known to be charged all over Iowa when done to a bartender.