Title Contending Teams Lineup Comparison

[sloehawk]

That's a great article about Cornell. I'm impressed with the team's perspective of being a family, making sacrifices for one another, and performing unselfish acts. I would like to see this same attitude permeate the Hawks.

It is a good article. I for one don't buy into the "this year is going to be different" stuff however. You see it in every sport. Why wouldn't you have that same mentality EVERY YEAR? Too cliche for me. Sorry. Not trying to be a debbie downer, but I'd rather see the results than hear about them.

The end of the year determines how well everything came together, and if it doesn't the next year you'll see another article similar to this one. Sometimes it works, sometimes you just don't have the horses. I don't care where Cornell finishes, as long as its behind us.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

I've gone over and over these lineups and keep coming to one pretty inevitable conclusion. The Hawks are going to have to fight like hell to finish second. PSU looks primed to run away with a title. Barring an injury to one their studs they are just loaded. With a minimal showing by their new studs (Nolf, Nevills and Nickal) they still win solidly with their retuning AAs. Megaludis, Retherford, Gulibon, and Macintosh are all favorites to make the finals. Gulibon probably the least likely but I'd be shocked if he finishes lower than 5th. McCutheon is a stud, but his weight class is loaded. Probably a long shot to put him on the stand, but he was R12 last year, so a low AA isn't out of the question. Conaway is a tough kid and he could sneak on the podium again. (Although he's a bit puny for the weight) I think that anyone who doesn't think that the three H club of Nolf, Nickal and Nevills won't have major contributions for PSU is kidding themselves.

I see the Hawks battling it out with Cornell, Okie St, Michigan and Ohio St for 2nd. And it's going to be reeeeeal close!

The good news is that Conaway, Megaludis and MacIntosh all graduate and 2016-2017 the Hawks will be back on top.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

That begs the question, should Burak redshirt this season? Iowa would be the clear favorite for 16-17 with him in the lineup, imo.

 

[sloehawk]

That begs the question, should Burak redshirt this season? Iowa would be the clear favorite for 16-17 with him in the lineup, imo.

That would be a great idea to some if Titles were won on paper. Since they aren't, you put out who you have and let the chips fall where they may. There is no reason Iowa can't win the National Title, this year, or next year.

 

[TarpHawk]

I'd probably keep Burak in the lineup unless he specifically said he wanted to take a redshirt year.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

That would be a great idea to some if Titles were won on paper. Since they aren't, you put out who you have and let the chips fall where they may. There is no reason Iowa can't win the National Title, this year, or next year.

Cael would beg to differ. We'll see how it works out for him though.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

That would be a great idea to some if Titles were won on paper. Since they aren't, you put out who you have and let the chips fall where they may. There is no reason Iowa can't win the National Title, this year, or next year.

No reason other than the fact that PSU is the better team this year hands down. PSU would likely be favored in 8 out of ten weights. Sure, things can happen, but typically not that many things do happen. And no I wouldn't redshirt Burak, unless he wanted to. I think we'll be favored next year regardless. I think we've got some good options at 197 for next year whether its Holloway or Wilcke. They going to develop nicely in the room this year.

 

[86_90]

I've gone over and over these lineups and keep coming to one pretty inevitable conclusion. The Hawks are going to have to fight like hell to finish second. PSU looks primed to run away with a title. Barring an injury to one their studs they are just loaded. With a minimal showing by their new studs (Nolf, Nevills and Nickal) they still win solidly with their retuning AAs. Megaludis, Retherford, Gulibon, and Macintosh are all favorites to make the finals. Gulibon probably the least likely but I'd be shocked if he finishes lower than 5th. McCutheon is a stud, but his weight class is loaded. Probably a long shot to put him on the stand, but he was R12 last year, so a low AA isn't out of the question. Conaway is a tough kid and he could sneak on the podium again. (Although he's a bit puny for the weight) I think that anyone who doesn't think that the three H club of Nolf, Nickal and Nevills won't have major contributions for PSU is kidding themselves.

I see the Hawks battling it out with Cornell, Okie St, Michigan and Ohio St for 2nd. And it's going to be reeeeeal close!

The good news is that Conaway, Megaludis and MacIntosh all graduate and 2016-2017 the Hawks will be back on top.

I see questions for all teams, but especially pen state:
Can't see McIntoash staying healthy.
Gulibon is going up a weight and his biggest advantage was his size, with other areas big ??? See him as a flame.
Year off for Megalud and Retheford, one or both will struggle big time with weight, focus or injuries--book it.
Conaway will be low to mid AA, but I don't see McCuthen getting past R12.
The 3 Ns are all talented, but unlikely to all wrestle to expectation. Plus 2 minus 1 best case.

So yeah, I'm not buying the pen state joe pa sandusky crowd's BS. They can pretend to not see the glaring problems, which they are obviously good at, but this squad isn't Ruth Taylor part 2.

 

[sloehawk]

Cael would beg to differ. We'll see how it works out for him though.

Well, believe it or not, Cael didn't invent the redshirt, or the various strategies for doing so.

Lincoln Mcllravy and Alex Tsirtsis are the only 2 Hawkeye upperclassmen I can think of off the top of my head that redshirted (Dan Dennis redshirted the year after he wrestled as a true freshman - I'm presume there are more, but not very many if so). They were also the rare individuals who wrestled as true freshmen. Obviously their upperclass redshirts were for entirely different reasons (Tsirtsis and Dennis because they needed to get better, hardly "saving" them "hoping" for Team Titles). The year Mcllravy sat out, Iowa won the Title by 44 points. The next year they set the record at UNI and won by 57. They also won by 57 the year prior to Mcllravy redshirting. So they weren't playing the same game our man Cael is.


If we've come to the point at Iowa where we have to play the "what if" game when it comes to redshirting upperclassmen, then the situation is far worse than I thought.

 

[Azchief32]

I see questions for all teams, but especially pen state:
Can't see McIntoash staying healthy.
Gulibon is going up a weight and his biggest advantage was his size, with other areas big ??? See him as a flame.
Year off for Megalud and Retheford, one or both will struggle big time with weight, focus or injuries--book it.
Conaway will be low to mid AA, but I don't see McCuthen getting past R12.
The 3 Ns are all talented, but unlikely to all wrestle to expectation. Plus 2 minus 1 best case.

So yeah, I'm not buying the pen state joe pa sandusky crowd's BS. They can pretend to not see the glaring problems, which they are obviously good at, but this squad isn't Ruth Taylor part 2.

125-Mega-Top 4
133-Conaway-Rd of 12
141-Guilibon-5-8 with potential to finish 3rd or 4th
149-Retherford-Finalist
157-Nolf-Top 4
165-Hammond/Rasheed-Qualifier. Admittedly, Rasheed is an X factor.
174-Bo-See how Bo knows a full NCAA wrestling season. I like Bo but low AA to Rd of 12.
184-McCutcheon-This is a loaded weight...Rd of 12
197-MM is a finalist
HWY-Haven't seen enough of Nevills to make an informed prediction.

This is best case scenario for the field. It wouldn't surprise me if Mega, Zain, Nolf, and MM end up as finalists with at least 2-3 champs. If the freshman step up in a big way, then yea, its PSU's to win. For us:

125-Gilman-Top 4
133-Clark-Finalist
141-Brody-Lots of Ifs and Buts here: Best case...Top 4, worst case, its somebody else who will struggle to qualify
149-Sorenson-Top 4
157-Cooper-Best case AA, worst case DNQ. Has he made strides physically?
165-Paddock-DNQ
174-Meyer-If he has improved on not letting guys score early, he has a chance to win it all. Top 5.
184-Brooks-5-8.
197-Burak-Finalist. This is the year he gets it done but loses to MM in the finals.
HWY-Qualifier

Obviously, our boys can step up and do better than my predictions but so far...this is what they have earned though. Historically under Cael, Penn State performs to expectations meaning they don't have a lot of bad rounds in the NCAAs. Iowa has had several bad rounds as of late. We have four X factors at 141, 157, 165, and HWY while PSU only really has one at 165. We know N-cubed will be good, but just how good in their first year will be the big question. They'll qualify all ten more than likely where we are going to have to do work and have some luck to qualify nine.

I only did us and PSU because I think PSU is the favorite. However, Smith has had OSU ready to wrestle for the NCAAs the past couple of years and they have an odds on champ at 165. They too will be tough to beat but like us, have a lot of question marks.

 

[Azchief32]

No reason other than the fact that PSU is the better team this year hands down. PSU would likely be favored in 8 out of ten weights. Sure, things can happen, but typically not that many things do happen. And no I wouldn't redshirt Burak, unless he wanted to. I think we'll be favored next year regardless. I think we've got some good options at 197 for next year whether its Holloway or Wilcke. They going to develop nicely in the room this year.

This would be my dual meet...I have it 4-4 with two toss ups. Wouldn't be surprised if Gilman beat Mega at 125 but I also wouldn't be surprised if Cutch beat Brooks at 184. I think PSU takes a dual meet although not as many clear favorites as you indicated.

125-PSU
133-Iowa
141-If Grothus gets down, Iowa
149-Toss up (149 is the new 174 with a lot of close, boring matches between the top 4 with wins in OT)
157-PSU
165-Toss up
174-Iowa
184-Iowa
197-PSU
HWY-PSU

 

[so cal hawkfan]

I love your optimism coupled with level-headedness chief. But, last time Mega and Gillman went it didn't look so good for Thomas. Mega is a step above Moisey and Tomasello IMHO. Mega was very close to upsetting one of the best Hawkeye lightweights of all time McD more than once and I can't imagine he spent his redshirt year eating pizza. Gillman will have his hands full. I see their first meeting being at B10s
133 I think Clark would put a beating on Conaway. Conaway's a tough kid, but will be undersized. If Mega wasn't back, Conaway would be down at 125. I think Clark wins by major.
141 is obviously the big mystery for the Hawks. I think even at the best I've ever seen him, Grothus has his hands full with Gulibon. Gulibon is a tough SOB and showed it when he went "Iowa style" on Clark last year in Happy Valley and upset him with an amazing comeback win. Also, he's been on the podium and Grothus hasn't. Kinda hard for me to favor Brody.
149 would likely be a low scoring, tactical boring match. Sorenson is certainly capable of the upset, but Zain would be favored. Toss up match.
157 Nolf would win by fall over Cooper or Rhoads.
165 Do you remember Hammond last year against Nick Moore? Paddock is not getting a win over Hammond. If Rasheed is the starter he beats Paddock as well.
174 I want to pick Alex Meyer over Bo Nickal, but I don't want to type things that are wrong. Nickal is a stud and will be a 4 X AA.
184. Sammy gets a close win here. McCutheon is tough though.
197 Burak has never beat Macintosh and I don't see it happening anytime soon. Morgan put it on him something fierce last year.
Hwt I would actually put this matchup as a toss up. Sam Stoll has a good size advantage over Nevills. Nevills is certainly a more skilled wrestler, but he could struggle to score on a guy as big as Sam. Hwt matches can be goofy at times.
This is absolutely a hypothetical dual comparison due to PSU and Iowa not being scheduled, but I think PSU out scores us in at least 7 weight classes at nationals barring injuries. I think PSU gets 6 AA's and 3 finalists. I think Iowa gets 6 AAs and 2 finalists.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

so cal, I enjoy your posts, but I think you're giving way too much respect to PSU here. As for Gilman and Nico, their last match was two years ago. A lot has changed since then, and Thomas was starting his first match in Carver that night, as I recall. He's seasoned now. Nico may have benefited from his year off, but maybe not as much as Thomas has by continuing to train and compete collegiately.

I think an Iowa-PSU dual meets would be very close, and easily winnable by either team.

 

[manmythlegend1]

125- PSU - Gilman is Great but he is not Beating Mega from what I saw last season
133- Iowa- Clark is definitely better than Connoway
141- Toss Up- I will respect your feeling on Grothus going down, that coupled with the move up in weight for Guilibon...lets just say a lot of moving parts
149- PSU- Sorry I know this is Folkstyle but Retherford beat Sorrensen in Freestyle and should be favored in my opinion till it is proven otherwise
157- PSU- No way Cooper beats Nolf
165- Toss up- This is Penn State's Question Mark Weight Beitz,Hammond, Rasheed..who knows, but who knows about Paddock having success at this weight also?
174- Iowa- Have to go with the tough veteran Meyer at this point---BUT Would you really be surprised if Nickal is the Stud many predict him to be??
184- Iowa- Love what Cutch showed me at Nationals but Brooks has been more consistent at this point in his Career
197- PSU- McIntosh is just Better
HWT- Toss Up- Because of the Injury of the Foot Nevills had I have to go from Edge to Nevills to toss Up.


Being a Penn State Fan, I have to force myself to Temper my enthusiasm for Nickal and Nevills..Injuries and all....Nolf proved he was the Real deal in his Redshirt Campaign.

PSU- 4 Iowa-3 Toss Up- 3

This would be a Competitive Match up, Penn State definitely has the bigger Upside but It is all on Paper at this point

 

[Flying_Tiger]

141 is PSU until proven different; 174 is Iowa until proven different; 184 toss up on paper, but I do lean Brooks.

 

[DonHawkeye]

100% healthy I will takes Brooks all day and twice on Saturdays.

 

[The Vak]

I think people are under rating Gilman here. I think it's fair to favor Mega, obviously, but Gilman is a much better wrestler from two years ago, beat the defending champ during the season and beat Garrett twice. Only lost to Waters at NCAA because of an insane high flier counter I've never seen Waters hit in his career at Mizzou. He took Waters down multiple times in that match, no easy feat.

 

[1stplacehawk]

I think people are under rating Gilman here. I think it's fair to favor Mega, obviously, but Gilman is a much better wrestler from two years ago, beat the defending champ during the season and beat Garrett twice. Only lost to Waters at NCAA because of an insane high flier counter I've never seen Waters hit in his career at Mizzou. He took Waters down multiple times in that match, no easy feet.

I agree

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I think people are under rating Gilman here. I think it's fair to favor Mega, obviously, but Gilman is a much better wrestler from two years ago, beat the defending champ during the season and beat Garrett twice. Only lost to Waters at NCAA because of an insane high flier counter I've never seen Waters hit in his career at Mizzou. He took Waters down multiple times in that match, no easy feat.

Pretty much what I said above. Agree completely.

 

[lenoxhawks]

I love your optimism coupled with level-headedness chief. But, last time Mega and Gillman went it didn't look so good for Thomas. Mega is a step above Moisey and Tomasello IMHO. Mega was very close to upsetting one of the best Hawkeye lightweights of all time McD more than once and I can't imagine he spent his redshirt year eating pizza. Gillman will have his hands full. I see their first meeting being at B10s
133 I think Clark would put a beating on Conaway. Conaway's tough kid, but will be undersized. If Mega wasn't back, Conaway would be down at 125. I think Clark wins by major.
141 is obviously the big mystery for the Hawks. I think even at the best I've ever seen him, Grothus has his hands full with Gulibon. Gulibon is a tough SOB and showed it when he went "Iowa style" on Clark last year in Happy Valley and upset him with an amazing comeback win. Also, he's been on the podium and Grothus hasn't. Kinda hard for me to favor Brody.
149 would likely be a low scoring, tactical boring match. Sorenson is certainly capable of the upset, but Zain would be favored. Toss up match.
157 Nolf would win by fall over Cooper or Rhoads.
165 Do you remember Hammond last year against Nick Moore? Paddock is getting a win over Hammond. If Rasheed is the starter he beats Paddock as well.
174 I want to pick Alex Meyer over Bo Nickal, but I don't want to type things that are wrong. Nickal is a stud and will be a 4 X AA.
184. Sammy gets a close win here. McCutheon is tough though.
197 Burak has never beat Macintosh and I don't see it happening anytime soon. Morgan put it on him something fierce last year.
Hwt I would actually put this matchup as a toss up. Sam Stoll has a good size advantage over Nevills. Nevills is certainly a more skilled wrestler, but he could struggle to score on a guy as big as Sam. Hwt matches can be goofy at times.
This is absolutely a hypothetical dual comparison due PSU and Iowa not being scheduled, but I think PSU out scores us in at least 7 weight classes at nationals barring injuries. I think PSU gets 6 AA's and 3 finalists. I think Iowa gets 6 AAs and 2 finalists.

The only reason Mega was close to McD was because he got good at holding onto legs to roast the clock. McD even beat him with 1 functional arm. It wouldn't be an upset for Gilman to win that match but it is fair to give a slight lean towards Mega until Gilman beats him.

 

[manmythlegend1]

be

I think people are under rating Gilman here. I think it's fair to favor Mega, obviously, but Gilman is a much better wrestler from two years ago, beat the defending champ during the season and beat Garrett twice. Only lost to Waters at NCAA because of an insane high flier counter I've never seen Waters hit in his career at Mizzou. He took Waters down multiple times in that match, no easy feat.

Interesting that you exclude the match against Moisey in your synopsis..

Edit- That comes across combative and I don't want it to be...my point is that saying Mega will beat Gilman does not mean people are under rating Gilman. Gilman is a tough kid and will be a tough match for Mega but his toughness is his nitch....That plays right into Mega. I would be much more concerned if Gilman wins off of quickness like Garrett. Mega beat Gilman and Clark 2 years ago...Gilman has definitely improved but I bet so has Mega. We Shall see? If Gilman wins, I will admit I was wrong.

 

[sloehawk]

be

Interesting that you exclude the match against Moisey in your synopsis..

Edit- That comes across combative and I don't want it to be...my point is that saying Mega will beat Gilman does not mean people are under rating Gilman. Gilman is a tough kid and will be a tough match for Mega but his toughness is his nitch....That plays right into Mega. I would be much more concerned if Gilman wins off of quickness like Garrett. Mega beat Gilman and Clark 2 years ago...Gilman has definitely improved but I bet so has Mega. We Shall see? If Gilman wins, I will admit I was wrong.

I'm confident Nico knows what he's getting into with Gilman. A tough match that could go either way. Nico should be favored, by a razor thin margin.

 

[Azchief32]

be

Interesting that you exclude the match against Moisey in your synopsis..

Edit- That comes across combative and I don't want it to be...my point is that saying Mega will beat Gilman does not mean people are under rating Gilman. Gilman is a tough kid and will be a tough match for Mega but his toughness is his nitch....That plays right into Mega. I would be much more concerned if Gilman wins off of quickness like Garrett. Mega beat Gilman and Clark 2 years ago...Gilman has definitely improved but I bet so has Mega. We Shall see? If Gilman wins, I will admit I was wrong.

A seasoned junior beat two freshman in their first year...lots have happened since then. It's Nico until Gilman proves otherwise...but like I said, I wouldn't be shocked. Just to bad it will likely be the B1Gs until we find out. Gilman is likely to be undefeated until at least the National Duals...Virginia Tech will not be at Midlands this year so Gilman will not see Moisey, Dance, Nico, or Nato.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

A seasoned junior beat two freshman in their first year...lots have happened since then. It's Nico until Gilman proves otherwise...but like I said, I wouldn't be shocked. Just to bad it will likely be the B1Gs until we find out. Gilman is likely to be undefeated until at least the National Duals...Virginia Tech will not be at Midlands this year so Gilman will not see Moisey, Dance, Nico, or Nato.

Hmmmm. Nato huh? Nice work you've done it again Chief. Bummer that Gillman won't get tested by a lot of the top guys till the end of the season. I'm not sure if that's a disadvantage or not. Another guy who could fly in under the radar is Stefan Micic who is now at Michigan. Im not sure how the weights are going to break down with them already having Bruno and Youtsey at the lower weights, but he (like Gillman) was a bronze medalist at the Junior Worlds and looked amazing.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

so cal, I enjoy your posts, but I think you're giving way too much respect to PSU here. As for Gilman and Nico, their last match was two years ago. A lot has changed since then, and Thomas was starting his first match in Carver that night, as I recall. He's seasoned now. Nico may have benefited from his year off, but maybe not as much as Thomas has by continuing to train and compete collegiately.

I think an Iowa-PSU dual meets would be very close, and easily winnable by either team.

Well it's a love affair then WW cause I enjoy you too. Also you may have a point. I hope you're right, if Gillman can get a win (or two) over Mega I'll be ecstatic. Unrelated question, didn't your username used to be a lot shorter?

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

Interesting when the 2 were in HS myself and a few others would've actually picked paddock over Rasheed

 

[manmythlegend1]

Interesting when the 2 were in HS myself and a few others would've actually picked paddock over Rasheed

Could still definitely happen, Rasheed has wrestled a total of 5 college matches...4-1..I like him but have no clue what he may actually bring to the table...I am impressed with that cradle of his from High School.....Maybe some Ruth nostalgia in that feeling

 

[Azchief32]

Could still definitely happen, Rasheed has wrestled a total of 5 college matches...4-1..I like him but have no clue what he may actually bring to the table...I am impressed with that cradle of his from High School.....Maybe some Ruth nostalgia in that feeling

Both are a mystery at the college level...its why I said it was a toss-up.

 

[pumpdog20]

Hmmmm. Nato huh? Nice work you've done it again Chief. Bummer that Gillman won't get tested by a lot of the top guys till the end of the season. I'm not sure if that's a disadvantage or not. Another guy who could fly in under the radar is Stefan Micic who is now at Michigan. Im not sure how the weights are going to break down with them already having Bruno and Youtsey at the lower weights, but he (like Gillman) was a bronze medalist at the Junior Worlds and looked amazing.

Does Micic get to wrestle this year? I thought you had to sit a year out if you transfer within the Big Ten.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

Does Micic get to wrestle this year? I thought you had to sit a year out if you transfer within the Big Ten.

You are correct, Micic is not competing for Michigan this year.

 

[TarpHawk]

The board hasn't talked much about Paddock at 165. He had a less-than-stellar redshirt year at 174--19-5 against unranked opponents. But who knows, maybe 165 is his optimal weight and he'll be a hammer there.

 

[Jackhawk87]

The board hasn't talked much about Paddock at 165. He had a less-than-stellar redshirt year at 174--19-5 against unranked opponents. But who knows, maybe 165 is his optimal weight and he'll be a hammer there.

One can hope, but don't see any reason to think that he is going to be a hammer there.

Solid - probably. NQ - hopefully. AA - very doubtful.

Only a RS freshman and hopefully develops into an AA his last 3 years. Not giving up on him this year by any means, but expectations are not high. Not fair to put unreal expectations on Stoll, Paddock, or 157. If we do, the Negative Nellies will be here cutting them down saying what disappointments they are. Better off with low expectations for these 3 weights.

 

[Azchief32]

The board hasn't talked much about Paddock at 165. He had a less-than-stellar redshirt year at 174--19-5 against unranked opponents. But who knows, maybe 165 is his optimal weight and he'll be a hammer there.

I hope Paddock is a Meyer type guy...Improve each year. Tarp, Paddock was wrestling up a weight and probably got horsed a bit. Can't wait to see what he's got.

 

[Krupnyakov]

I am also pretty excited to see what Paddock can do. I don't quite understand where the low expectations are coming from.

 

[whejoe]

I am also pretty excited to see what Paddock can do. I don't quite understand where the low expectations are coming from.

I'm also excited to see Paddock.

Also, what about Tagen Lambotte at 157? I know when he committed to IA, there were a few posters who were really excited about him. He had a pretty average year at 157 last year, but is there any potential for him to crack the lineup this year at 157?

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

Believe me Rasheed is very talented and it made sense that he chose to wrestle for Cael with his attacking style if he can remain in the line up he could be poised to do good things same for Paddock his family is a prestigious one in NY they're both capable of doing well it's a matter of adjusting

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

That post felt a lot like James Joyce. Do appreciate the info!