To show just how important the 2023 recruiting class is and producing similarly at least every other year:

el dub

HR Legend
Nov 2, 2005
11,434
11,574
113
Doesn't bother me one bit and freely admit Cael is the best recruiter in the country. I mean he's more likeable than the Brands Bros and he also has a track record of turning his elite recruits into multiple time National champs. So yeah, I too am not really sure why there's always a big deal or even why Hawk fans like to even mention it. Maybe they are hoping the NCAA will turn recruiting into a charity like Unicef and force Cael into letting other coaches have the kids he wants.
Wainamina…. We like our guys. And we get who we want. Only the best fits.
 

grapplefann

HR All-American
Oct 3, 2010
2,861
3,786
113
No one here really takes umbrage with anyone saying “wow Cael [Carl] recruits so well, that’s why they keep beating us!” It’s the continuous unfounded accusations of cheating and drug use and all that that really does more to harm the credibility of this board than of PSU wrestling.

There are definitely some anti-Iowa sentiments on the PSU board, but this board just bleeds its own Iowa self hate here where regular Iowa posters seem to be working overtime to give their own program a bad name.
Whatever strategy/formula/plan/calculation/deal/scheme that Carl has going on, it seems like it's working. That record speaks for itself year after year. What doesn't work is your collective need to control every other board where someone somewhere might say sh*t about St. Carl. If we're the self-hating fan-base, then why are you constantly here defending him? Now some of these other Cesspool morans may like to go over to BWI and yank your chains, but I don't, and I always encourage them not to. That's YOUR cesspool, and it smells way different than ours, but not any better.

So the upshot is that some of you folks live on borrowed grievance all day, every day, because you can't stand the fact that appointed saints, whether they're Carl, Paterno, JRob, Tan Tom, Gable, or the Brands Bros, can have feet of clay. The problem is not in the men, because they are all human. The problem is that assumption of (and demand for) sainthood for DI coaches, because to admit anything less is to imply weakness in the program and maybe even the university, and that might have a negative affect on recruiting.
 

grapplefann

HR All-American
Oct 3, 2010
2,861
3,786
113
Doesn't bother me one bit and freely admit Cael is the best recruiter in the country. I mean he's more likeable than the Brands Bros and he also has a track record of turning his elite recruits into multiple time National champs. So yeah, I too am not really sure why there's always a big deal or even why Hawk fans like to even mention it. Maybe they are hoping the NCAA will turn recruiting into a charity like Unicef and force Cael into letting other coaches have the kids he wants.
Great recruiter and more successful? Undeniable.
More likeable? He's likeable like Nick Saban is likeable. ;)
 
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PAHURDLER

Team MVP
Oct 17, 2001
199
430
63
Whatever strategy/formula/plan/calculation/deal/scheme that Carl has going on, it seems like it's working. That record speaks for itself year after year. What doesn't work is your collective need to control every other board where someone somewhere might say sh*t about St. Carl. If we're the self-hating fan-base, then why are you constantly here defending him? Now some of these other Cesspool morans may like to go over to BWI and yank your chains, but I don't, and I always encourage them not to. That's YOUR cesspool, and it smells way different than ours, but not any better.

So the upshot is that some of you folks live on borrowed grievance all day, every day, because you can't stand the fact that appointed saints, whether they're Carl, Paterno, JRob, Tan Tom, Gable, or the Brands Bros, can have feet of clay. The problem is not in the men, because they are all human. The problem is that assumption of (and demand for) sainthood for DI coaches, because to admit anything less is to imply weakness in the program and maybe even the university, and that might have a negative affect on recruiting.

This was a long winded way to say “leave me to my echo chamber.”
 
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dunkej01

All-Conference
Dec 10, 2005
485
946
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Not really. Just that it might be best not to act all butt-hurt when some Iowa fans need safe space to vent and tamp down any cognitive dissonance experienced.
I get what your saying but at what point does the ped state thing as a piss poor clap back wear out? Maybe never. Thats fine.

But it clearly hasnt worked. Doesnt work. Wont work in the BWI/tHR back and forth.

so after 10 years of doing this around here, why keep doing it? All it does is acknowledge your clear inability to articulate effectively and maybe win an intranet debate?
 
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el dub

HR Legend
Nov 2, 2005
11,434
11,574
113
I get what your saying but at what point does the ped state thing as a piss poor clap back wear out? Maybe never. Thats fine.

But it clearly hasnt worked. Doesnt work. Wont work in the BWI/tHR back and forth.

so after 10 years of doing this around here, why keep doing it? All it does is acknowledge your clear inability to articulate effectively and maybe win an intranet debate?
My? Please find a post I’ve made using the “p” word. Lol

Not everyone here agrees with those tactics or slurs.
 

dunkej01

All-Conference
Dec 10, 2005
485
946
93
My? Please find a post I’ve made using the “p” word. Lol

Not everyone here agrees with those tactics or slurs.
It was not my intent to make you feel like you did or do. My post while a reply to you, was more for the board at large.

Probably should have just posted it without reply. My bad.
 
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HawkFan1986

HR MVP
Mar 26, 2019
1,677
4,837
113
Iowa
yeah it seems very cold in here except for the firebreathers. Shame
On this thread you’re right. You’re only going to get fire breathers. The match was struck and you psu guys poured gasoline all over till there was no point for anybody but the fire breathers to chime in.

Initially this thread was based purely on recruit rankings for Iowa and PSU’s starting lineup. That was it. It was essentially a flag in the ground on the top of a hill saying Iowa needs to recruit better, and recently they have.

Then someone made an offhand comment so the psu loyalist came with their gasoline and wouldn’t stop pouring until the thread was an absolute shit show. You’ll argue this happened because of the baseless allegations thrown the psu coach’s way. Fine fair enough. But, I think there’s a better than reasonable chance that some, if not most, of the psu posters that ruined this thread ran back to the BWI Board to laugh about awful Hr is and what crazy posters we have over here.

In fact I know that’s true. I know it because I go to the BWI board and have posted on several occasions over there. In the thread, as the bird turns.( A thread used to discuss how stupid and pathetic hr is, not to mention mock our coaches and our athletes injuries- Tom and Terry are midgets and ADS is a cry baby is a common joke that elicits multiple laughs a day there). In that thread , a good number of the psu posters, found in this thread, give detail about how they ruined turned yet another thread into garbage.

The ped state thing is a black eye on your university but it in no way touches the current wrestling program or it’s fans. It’s immature and a bit disgusting. So is that As the Bird turns thread. If psu posters don’t want to be called out for being trolls then stop Fukkin trolling. Stop bragging about blowing up a thread while you mock this board behind our backs. And if neither of those two options are acceptable stop acting butt hurt when you come here and are met with pushback. Wtf would you expect.

I replied to you because In post 167 you discuss the psu fan and hr’s back and fourth. I’m not suggesting that you in particular are guilty of any thing, just that many psu posters are.
 
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Spoons

HR All-American
Jan 17, 2002
2,919
1,725
113
Ok here’s the thing Carl will sell his soul to the Devil to win. If you couldn’t see it for how he left isu to kicking Jenkins to the curb for Taylor, to recruiting over AAs. Whether Dean came to him or not I really don’t care anybody with any kind of conscience says sorry I all ready got my guy. I could go on and on but it’s kinda like trying to have a decent conversation with a liberal when they know I am a Trump supporter.
 

johnstownsteel

HR All-State
Aug 1, 2013
603
957
93
Give me a coach that gets the best kid he can possibly get at every weight every year. Why? Well, because I don't want to be on message boards crying like a little bitch because other teams are doing it and winning titles while mine is not.

Call me selfish....
 

Inthecircle

HR MVP
Apr 3, 2018
1,655
2,916
113
When a business has 5-10X more money then their competitors, they have an exponential advantage over the competition. PSU Wrestling and NLWC have this advantage. Is this deniable?

One has to have their head in the sand, should they believe that when it comes to recruiting elite wrestlers there isn’t plausible discernment on the part of Iowa Wrestling fans.

Carl is able say and make contingent promises which Iowa can’t and won’t.
Iowa and PSU operate under a different set of compliance parameters. We are closely watched. PSU is not.
There in lies my disdain.
 

Grip220

HR Heisman
Mar 23, 2014
5,827
10,666
113
Babylonia parts unknown
When a business has 5-10X more money then their competitors, they have an exponential advantage over the competition. PSU Wrestling and NLWC have this advantage. Is this deniable?

One has to have their head in the sand, should they believe that when it comes to recruiting elite wrestlers there isn’t plausible discernment on the part of Iowa Wrestling fans.

Carl is able say and make contingent promises which Iowa can’t and won’t.
Iowa and PSU operate under a different set of compliance parameters. We are closely watched. PSU is not.
There in lies my disdain.
100%
 
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bnicolls

HR MVP
Jun 4, 2005
1,659
2,701
113
When a business has 5-10X more money then their competitors, they have an exponential advantage over the competition. PSU Wrestling and NLWC have this advantage. Is this deniable?

One has to have their head in the sand, should they believe that when it comes to recruiting elite wrestlers there isn’t plausible discernment on the part of Iowa Wrestling fans.

Carl is able say and make contingent promises which Iowa can’t and won’t.
Iowa and PSU operate under a different set of compliance parameters. We are closely watched. PSU is not.
There in lies my disdain.
I agree on post grads, but not on collegiates

I really like our post grads as training partners for collegiate s. However, no doubt theirs have the results over ours internationally
 
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HawkGold

Scout Team
Mar 8, 2018
140
459
63
Ok here’s the thing Carl will sell his soul to the Devil to win. If you couldn’t see it for how he left isu to kicking Jenkins to the curb for Taylor, to recruiting over AAs. Whether Dean came to him or not I really don’t care anybody with any kind of conscience says sorry I all ready got my guy. I could go on and on but it’s kinda like trying to have a decent conversation with a liberal when they know I am a Trump supporter.
The “recruiting over” thing is one of the silliest/dumbest topics talked about on this board. It’s literally his job to recruit the best and put them on the mat and win.
 

Jrjt0518

HR All-American
Dec 22, 2019
2,629
3,352
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When a business has 5-10X more money then their competitors, they have an exponential advantage over the competition. PSU Wrestling and NLWC have this advantage. Is this deniable?

One has to have their head in the sand, should they believe that when it comes to recruiting elite wrestlers there isn’t plausible discernment on the part of Iowa Wrestling fans.

Carl is able say and make contingent promises which Iowa can’t and won’t.
Iowa and PSU operate under a different set of compliance parameters. We are closely watched. PSU is not.
There in lies my disdain.
Facts
 

grapplefann

HR All-American
Oct 3, 2010
2,861
3,786
113
Not really. Just that it might be best not to act all butt-hurt when some Iowa fans need safe space to vent and tamp down any cognitive dissonance experienced.
Bingo, we have a winner.
As someone else said, "Get off my lawn." ;)
 
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johnstownsteel

HR All-State
Aug 1, 2013
603
957
93
Yeah, the PSU wrestling team couldn't get the University to accept Wicks credits so he could transfer there yet their compliance department lets them run roughshod while breaking all the recruiting rules..
 

Inthecircle

HR MVP
Apr 3, 2018
1,655
2,916
113
I agree on post grads, but not on collegiates

I really like our post grads as training partners for collegiate s. However, no doubt theirs have the results over ours internationally
I definitely agree on our training partners.

As for the post grads vs collegiate s, this is a high road take and certainly can’t prove otherwise. Personally, I have my doubts after reviewing the NLWC tax filings because itemizations aren’t available. I’ll just leave it at that.
 

grapplefann

HR All-American
Oct 3, 2010
2,861
3,786
113
Ok here’s the thing Carl will sell his soul to the Devil to win. If you couldn’t see it for how he left isu to kicking Jenkins to the curb for Taylor, to recruiting over AAs. Whether Dean came to him or not I really don’t care anybody with any kind of conscience says sorry I all ready got my guy. I could go on and on but it’s kinda like trying to have a decent conversation with a liberal when they know I am a Trump supporter.
That's because they share the self-righteousness. Has there ever been a more self-righteous fan base? They make Notre Dame fans look like Rutgers fans. And that's from a never-trumper. :)
 
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bnicolls

HR MVP
Jun 4, 2005
1,659
2,701
113
I definitely agree on our training partners.

As for the post grads vs collegiate s, this is a high road take and certainly can’t prove otherwise. Personally, I have my doubts after reviewing the NLWC tax filings because itemizations aren’t available. I’ll just leave it at that.
Funding for collegiates no longer has to go thru just wrestling clubs. Even if you had the detail, that is just one piece of the puzzle. You'll never see the whole pie anymore with NIL.
 

bnicolls

HR MVP
Jun 4, 2005
1,659
2,701
113
That's because they share the self-righteousness. Has there ever been a more self-righteous fan base? They make Notre Dame fans look like Rutgers fans. And that's from a never-trumper. :)
I agree 100%. As to why I post as I do re PSU, as briefly as I can:

I grew up in the 60's in an environment where parents/teachers/everyone I knew did all they could for kids. I don't recall a single issue otherwise (Yes, I and all I knew were lucky). My wife and I replicated this as much as we could for our kids, and so did all our neighbors and friends.

As I mentioned, while I grew up in Chicago, my extended family was all NE Ohio and Western PA. I spent alot of time there. They all went to tOSU and Pitt. I followed those schools in the 60's and 70's because they did. Then you had PSU and Joe Pa. They held themselves out as the sterling and clean program. They did well playing their Indy schedule and "commitment to east coast football (terrible schools to rack up easy wins)". Self-righteous is one term that comes to mind that rolled the eyes.

Then the scandal and all the layers of the onion.

Since it was decades in the making, I guess it will be decades to unwind.

Despite this I have consistently congratulated them for their recent success. Iowa was slow to react, which Tom talked about. He then addressed every aspect, but could not do certain things without help. The new building being one piece. I was happy to help with others. Happy to help with HWC and any other way.

BTW, for you PSUers that hate Landlords. Your boy Lubert is one too. As Landlords, we know everyone hates us and we'll never win a battle in the court of public opinion. But the industry has come a long way and generally delivers a value product. The market takes care of bad actors, people just move somewhere else and the lousy owners lose. And too, where would nearly 40% of the country live if not for us'n Landlords.

Go ahead PSU, pile on. I gots thick skin, strong bones, and deaf ears to your whining.

Lastly, I'm just like any other poster here. I come on to see info on this and that like most. I don't hide behind a screen name and don't mind getting in a tussle. But, when someone blathers on without facts, I call em out and don't mind getting dirty.

Back to the topic. I would like to see MSU add in our 2023 class and come up with those numbers.
 

82bordeaux

All-Conference
Nov 19, 2019
352
1,129
93
I agree 100%. As to why I post as I do re PSU, as briefly as I can:

I grew up in the 60's in an environment where parents/teachers/everyone I knew did all they could for kids. I don't recall a single issue otherwise (Yes, I and all I knew were lucky). My wife and I replicated this as much as we could for our kids, and so did all our neighbors and friends.

As I mentioned, while I grew up in Chicago, my extended family was all NE Ohio and Western PA. I spent alot of time there. They all went to tOSU and Pitt. I followed those schools in the 60's and 70's because they did. Then you had PSU and Joe Pa. They held themselves out as the sterling and clean program. They did well playing their Indy schedule and "commitment to east coast football (terrible schools to rack up easy wins)". Self-righteous is one term that comes to mind that rolled the eyes.

Then the scandal and all the layers of the onion.

Since it was decades in the making, I guess it will be decades to unwind.

Despite this I have consistently congratulated them for their recent success. Iowa was slow to react, which Tom talked about. He then addressed every aspect, but could not do certain things without help. The new building being one piece. I was happy to help with others. Happy to help with HWC and any other way.

BTW, for you PSUers that hate Landlords. Your boy Lubert is one too. As Landlords, we know everyone hates us and we'll never win a battle in the court of public opinion. But the industry has come a long way and generally delivers a value product. The market takes care of bad actors, people just move somewhere else and the lousy owners lose. And too, where would nearly 40% of the country live if not for us'n Landlords.

Go ahead PSU, pile on. I gots thick skin, strong bones, and deaf ears to your whining.

Lastly, I'm just like any other poster here. I come on to see info on this and that like most. I don't hide behind a screen name and don't mind getting in a tussle. But, when someone blathers on without facts, I call em out and don't mind getting dirty.

Back to the topic. I would like to see MSU add in our 2023 class and come up with those numbers.
This was a good post. Well said.
 
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MSU158

HR All-American
Nov 20, 2014
3,751
6,674
113
I agree 100%. As to why I post as I do re PSU, as briefly as I can:

I grew up in the 60's in an environment where parents/teachers/everyone I knew did all they could for kids. I don't recall a single issue otherwise (Yes, I and all I knew were lucky). My wife and I replicated this as much as we could for our kids, and so did all our neighbors and friends.

As I mentioned, while I grew up in Chicago, my extended family was all NE Ohio and Western PA. I spent alot of time there. They all went to tOSU and Pitt. I followed those schools in the 60's and 70's because they did. Then you had PSU and Joe Pa. They held themselves out as the sterling and clean program. They did well playing their Indy schedule and "commitment to east coast football (terrible schools to rack up easy wins)". Self-righteous is one term that comes to mind that rolled the eyes.

Then the scandal and all the layers of the onion.

Since it was decades in the making, I guess it will be decades to unwind.

Despite this I have consistently congratulated them for their recent success. Iowa was slow to react, which Tom talked about. He then addressed every aspect, but could not do certain things without help. The new building being one piece. I was happy to help with others. Happy to help with HWC and any other way.

BTW, for you PSUers that hate Landlords. Your boy Lubert is one too. As Landlords, we know everyone hates us and we'll never win a battle in the court of public opinion. But the industry has come a long way and generally delivers a value product. The market takes care of bad actors, people just move somewhere else and the lousy owners lose. And too, where would nearly 40% of the country live if not for us'n Landlords.

Go ahead PSU, pile on. I gots thick skin, strong bones, and deaf ears to your whining.

Lastly, I'm just like any other poster here. I come on to see info on this and that like most. I don't hide behind a screen name and don't mind getting in a tussle. But, when someone blathers on without facts, I call em out and don't mind getting dirty.

Back to the topic. I would like to see MSU add in our 2023 class and come up with those numbers.
Hard to add them in, until I know what year and what weight they actually start. How many go as true freshmen? Will Keuter ever actually take the mat? Will he prove to be football first?

I would be surprised the Brands even know those answers quite yet…
 

johnstownsteel

HR All-State
Aug 1, 2013
603
957
93
Done with this thread. Alls I know…since 2014 or so, I’ve been told here that Cael and his fantastic recruiting hauls were over …that recruits were “onto” him and kids no longer want to go to PSU only to watch Cael continue to dominate. Then you tricked your minds into thinking Spencer, Kem, Young and Murin haul opened up the PA/Young Guns pipeline only to see that one dry up rather quickly. And now..now your brains are telling you it’s NIL and how it will effectively eliminate any “advantages” PSU might have. Or fooling yourselves …yet again …on how a new facility is enough to return Iowa back to their rightful place at the top.

Not surprisingly Hawk fans are using their 2023 class as proof Iowa caught PSU in the recruiting wars even though PSU was kinda forced to take a step back because of the young squad and studs they already have on the team. Remember this, when the 2024 class is said and done, some of you are going to be thinking it’s back to the drawing board because PSUs class will be epic. They aren’t done yet…
 
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IRONBIRD

HR MVP
Dec 2, 2010
1,662
3,129
113
Done with this thread. Alls I know…since 2014 or so, I’ve been told here that Cael and his fantastic recruiting hauls were over …that recruits were “onto” him and kids no longer want to go to PSU only to watch Cael continue to dominate. Then you tricked your minds into thinking Spencer, Kem, Young and Murin haul opened up the PA/Young Guns pipeline only to see that one dry up rather quickly. And now..now your brains are telling you it’s NIL and how it will effectively eliminate any “advantages” PSU might have. Or fooling yourselves yet again how how a new facility is enough to return Iowa back to their rightful place at the top.

Not surprisingly Hawk fans are using their 2023 class as proof Iowa caught PSU in the recruiting wars even though PSU was kinda forced to take a step back because of the young squad and studs they already have on the team. Remember this, when the 2024 class is said and done, some of you are going to be thinking it’s back to the drawing board because PSUs class will be epic. They aren’t done yet….
IOWA just had a monster class. They add just one more wrestler who I believe they should be going after, and they will be very hard to beat no matter what F*** Bale does! My biggest concern is Big Ben at Heavy going full in on Football. Not sure how that will play out just yet, but with him in the line up and what is already there. A big run of our own is being set up!
 

bnicolls

HR MVP
Jun 4, 2005
1,659
2,701
113
Hard to add them in, until I know what year and what weight they actually start. How many go as true freshmen? Will Keuter ever actually take the mat? Will he prove to be football first?

I would be surprised the Brands even know those answers quite yet…
When you can, I'd like to see it. The total number will drop dramatically due to the p4p rankings of the wrestlers.

A good friends son is the QB on BK football team. The word is he is "committed" to wrestling. I guess we'll see.

My guess is that we'll get another stud transfer to join the 2023 group who walk on campus next August. And, we'll get a solid commit or two from HS. This, to fill that void you mention on off years.
 
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bnicolls

HR MVP
Jun 4, 2005
1,659
2,701
113
Done with this thread. Alls I know…since 2014 or so, I’ve been told here that Cael and his fantastic recruiting hauls were over …that recruits were “onto” him and kids no longer want to go to PSU only to watch Cael continue to dominate. Then you tricked your minds into thinking Spencer, Kem, Young and Murin haul opened up the PA/Young Guns pipeline only to see that one dry up rather quickly. And now..now your brains are telling you it’s NIL and how it will effectively eliminate any “advantages” PSU might have. Or fooling yourselves …yet again …on how a new facility is enough to return Iowa back to their rightful place at the top.

Not surprisingly Hawk fans are using their 2023 class as proof Iowa caught PSU in the recruiting wars even though PSU was kinda forced to take a step back because of the young squad and studs they already have on the team. Remember this, when the 2024 class is said and done, some of you are going to be thinking it’s back to the drawing board because PSUs class will be epic. They aren’t done yet…
I'm glad you are done.

It's hard for me to dislike you given your screen name. I sympathize with Johnstown, have friends all around it, and love the steel industry for which my Dad worked his entire career after the War.

However, you constantly come here and attempt to "run down our program". I, on the other hand, have complimented your program and major donor. Our coaches realized they needed to change to meet the new landscape of wrestling. And they have. Yet you continue to run down what we do, and the results of 2020 and 2021.

Lastly, as an American, I root for your club members to win during international competition. I think everyone here does too.
 

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