Trump and Project 2025 are attacking the Department of Education

[fredjr82]

While Americans have short memories, and perhaps the Ds are just waiting till later, I am concerned they are not taking advantage of today's news and missing a constant message of how shitty trump's core positions are. They could have a new campaign monthly on the compare / contrast and that could be regardless of Biden or Harris or other. Painting Trump poorly benefits any D candidate IMO. Because this isn't a both sides battle, A and B are very different.

I don't think they see a point? (IMO)

The votes are pretty much confirmed at this point. I really don't think outside of something very drastic, are too many folks changing their votes. You may have a couple of straddlers left, but I assume most have their minds made up.

 

[Tom Paris]

Easy target, I don't care which side of the aisle you are on. Nobody is happy with the current state of public education in this country. Both sides have different reasons and different solutions.

And neither side listens to those of us in the middle of the fight.

 

[Tom Paris]

There's something clever about matter of factly calling it a "rightwing manifesto" when there isn't one. Nice word play there to try to make it sound fascist.

In looking at the doc, the word manifesto appears exactly 0 times.

I read the intro, and this opening paragraph is really intimidating. Seems like these guys should be feared...:

"This work, Mandate for Leadership 2025: The Conservative Promise, is a collective effort of hundreds of volunteers who have banded together in the spirit of advancing positive change for America. Our work is by no means the comprehensive compendium of conservative policies, nor is our group the exclusive cadre of conservative thinkers. The ideas expressed in this volume are not necessarily shared by all. What unites us is the drive to make our country better."

Ok so I'm done pretending these are some kind of fascists, but we can disagree.

As to the Department of Ed. There are good reasons to keep it, and I'm in favor of keeping it, BUT when the DOE was founded we had the best education system in the world. Now we're not in the top 20. That's a problem, and throwing more money at it hasn't seemed to do the trick.

I believe the people at the DOE regardless of party in charge want the best for American students, but they can't do it alone...

Pew research says that in 1980, 61% of kids lived with BOTH of their biological parents. By 2014, that number was 46%. Educators know parental involvement matters.

Perhaps the issue isn't the DOE, and we should be looking to homes.

Your second “paragraph” defines “simpleton thinker” perfectly. It gives me very little hope for our future. Instead of actually addressing how terrible their beliefs are you choose to go at that word.

 

[Tom Paris]

Since when did Trump ever need a Congressional act to do what he wanted to do? We found out last time that Trump just wants something to happen and it does. Even if the Constitution clearly says something needs to happen Trump would get it done anyway. As it turns out, the Constitution actually only means as much as the people in charge are willing to follow it. Kind of like the Supreme Court just deciding that he can do whatever the f**k he wants and not face any repercussions. Shame on Biden for not taking advantage of that power.

Biden could get down in the mud now and fight dirty but Democrats won’t…because now proven silly belief in the rule of law. It will be their last opportunity if Trump wins this thing.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

And neither side listens to those of us in the middle of the fight.

I’ve been in the middle of the fight for almost 30 years now. And one constant has remained true. Bureaucracy is the enemy of progress. Teachers are continually told what’s best for education by people who have never stepped foot in a classroom. Such an ineffective approach.

 

[BioHawk]

Everything that I hear from colleagues from California to Arizona to New York to Illinois to Maryland is that they are paying for private school right now because their public schools are helpless to remove the problem students from classrooms, so their kids are caught in the crossfire. Is that not a DOE-caused issue? I honestly don't know

Not at the federal level. Those states have passed laws that limit the consequences schools can implement on students. Day to day operations of schools really aren't what the DOE does anyway. Well, beyond doing things like saying "You can't bar gay kids from attending school". Which, in reality is probably the biggest reason these people want to get rid of it.

 

[BioHawk]

I’ve been in the middle of the fight for almost 30 years now. And one constant has remained true. Bureaucracy is the enemy of progress. Teachers are continually told what’s best for education by people who have never stepped foot in a classroom. Such an ineffective approach.

Obama had a chance to correct the mistakes of the Bush years with No Child Left Behind, but instead doubled down on it and pushed the implementation of charter schools. What people don't realize is while Bush laid the groundwork it is Obama who should really get credit for putting us in a place to completely dismantle public education (it obviously isn't all Obama, but he didn't do anything to stop it and actually helped it out quite a bit). Honestly, I think he saw how public education was failing black students in cities and was looking for an alternative to try and address their needs.

Of course, Republicans liked this idea but under no circumstances can they say they agree with ANYTHING Obama did which is why they don't talk about it at all. On the flip side, Democrats don't want to feed into the rest of the narrative that Republicans like to pretend is true, that Obama was the worst President EVA (well, until Biden at least) so they don't talk about it either. So it goes pretty much ignored by everyone.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

Obama had a chance to correct the mistakes of the Bush years with No Child Left Behind, but instead doubled down on it and pushed the implementation of charter schools. What people don't realize is while Bush laid the groundwork it is Obama who should really get credit for putting us in a place to completely dismantle public education (it obviously isn't all Obama, but he didn't do anything to stop it and actually helped it out quite a bit). Honestly, I think he saw how public education was failing black students in cities and was looking for an alternative to try and address their needs.

Of course, Republicans liked this idea but under no circumstances can they say they agree with ANYTHING Obama did which is why they don't talk about it at all. On the flip side, Democrats don't want to feed into the rest of the narrative that Republicans like to pretend is true, that Obama was the worst President EVA (well, until Biden at least) so they don't talk about it either. So it goes pretty much ignored by everyone.

Jeb Bush did his best to fight it in Florida but unfortunately anything that deals with anything new in education, gets the far right idiots all riled up and the parents who don’t know how to do basic math with their 3rd graders blame whatever it is that is changing.

I can’t imagine that would ever change now with this new crop of nuts. I believe Jeb would have been a great president. A shame his brother and Trump sullied his chances at getting to the big stage.

 

[Tom Paris]

For as conservative as I am, I actually agree with the lefties that the voucher programs are bad for the simple reason that the pot of money gets stretched thinner & thinner. Overall, everyone loses.

I’m in favor of a robust, single public system. I would also favor more creative ways (not vouchers or direct funding) to promote school choice (i.e. tax deductions and what not).

The Dems have a few problem talking education:
1. Lowering good standards (testing/safety), increasing bad standards (DEI)
2. Always resist efforts to increase discipline
3. Protection of underperforming administration and faculty (NEA, et al)
4. More money is always the solution. No other creative ideas

Conservatives are all about school choice and privatization but the causation of that stems from the above.

So if I was the POTUS for a day, I would tell both sides to send me a bill that has compromise and innovation as key parts of it. Don’t ask for a dime!

I feel the lowest hanging fruit in all of this and could be implemented quickly and not cost a dime is get the Teachers Unions to back off on discipline. Give more discipline control to faculty and then support them and have their back. Get the damn cell phones out of the classrooms. If we say we support teachers then let’s do something that actually helps them in their day to day.

If you told the average conservative voter that in 5 years you would see less fights at school, less bullying because the teachers can stop it when they see it, less teacher harassment by students, more orderly classrooms with higher performance, and policies limiting cell phones in schools - you would have more of them OK supporting schools. Let the faculty manage the problem kids out to create a better learning environment. This is what conservatives have wanted for decades, long before their issues with DEI. Start there.

Innovation - reign spending in. I see waste all the time with technology spending in K-12. You should see what Chicago PS spends on tech alone - how does it correlate to outcomes??? Want to raise teacher pay, cut some tech spending. Foster a movement toward trades education - that is where our country is dying for more help and will be needed 25-50 years from now. I would support funding to transform buildings and staff to shift certain high schools from a liberal arts orientation to trades. We already do it with certain magnate learning, accelerate it.

CSB

Addressing 2,3,4 about Democrat solutions-

I don’t know a single democrat in teaching and administration that doesn’t want more disciplinary tools. We’re all fed up with the fear of lawsuits. I could go on and on about the legit crazy people who the district caves into from fear. It makes all of us sick how weak it seems.

Iowa has a union with absolutely no power. We can get fired pretty easily. The problem is now, the job sucks so bad, due to things you and many have discussed many times, and we are having a hard time filling jobs. This wasn’t a thing a decade ago.

Funding - all I and many of us want is to fund to the level that keeps up with the rising costs of living. That doesn’t happen. Just cuts to programs and adults who work with kids. I mean, it’s a joke that I can only write off $250 bucks of purchases for my classroom- things that are necessary- but billionaires can write off a personal jet. Just fund to a level where we stop losing adults that kids need working with them. It’s infuriating.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Dems are NoT the ones resisting more discipline in the class room. It’s liberal parents who resist… and courts that find for them. But to say “Democrats” is just flat -out careless and stupid. Throw flames much?

FIFY

 

[thewop]

Your second “paragraph” defines “simpleton thinker” perfectly. It gives me very little hope for our future. Instead of actually addressing how terrible their beliefs are you choose to go at that word.

After reading the document, can you say which ideas are terrible?

 

[Tom Paris]

I’ve been in the middle of the fight for almost 30 years now. And one constant has remained true. Bureaucracy is the enemy of progress. Teachers are continually told what’s best for education by people who have never stepped foot in a classroom. Such an ineffective approach.

You are 100% correct. “When’s the last time he/she was in a classroom?” is a question asked fairly often right after we got a dose of toxic positivity, before revealing a new way to do teach, from one of those types.

 

[Chishawk1425]

This means the opposite. It always does

 

[hexumhawk]

Its funny that every time that policies aim to decrease the federal governments reach, people automatically think it is getting killed or gutted. Sending some of these things back to the states to manage MIGHT be beneficial and probably more cost effective.

 

[Tom Paris]

After reading the document, can you say which ideas are terrible?

How much time ya got? The foreword is all bullshit. Like almost all of it. It’s filled with lies that anyone with logic and common sense can see through.

 

[Chishawk1425]

 

[Tom Paris]

View embedded media

Just another of a hundred thousand Trump lies.

 

[BioHawk]

Jeb Bush did his best to fight it in Florida but unfortunately anything that deals with anything new in education, gets the far right idiots all riled up and the parents who don’t know how to do basic math with their 3rd graders blame whatever it is that is changing.

I can’t imagine that would ever change now with this new crop of nuts. I believe Jeb would have been a great president. A shame his brother and Trump sullied his chances at getting to the big stage.

Well, he would have been better than Trump, that's for sure.

 

[BioHawk]

This means the opposite. It always does

View embedded media

Even if this were true Trump is too lazy to stop them from doing it. He would have to take over hiring and appointments. He only gives a shit about appointing judges that will allow him to rape and murder 12 year olds on main street and then congratulate him for his boldness.

 

[Chishawk1425]

 

[Chishawk1425]

 

[LuciousBDragon]

View embedded media

Couple questions:

- Is it within the realm of possibility that the Heritage Foundation is acting independently? How did the Heritage Foundation operate prior to Jan 20th, 2017?

- If Donald J. Trump subjected himself to a lie detector conducted by a 3rd-party and DJT made this exact same statement and did not trigger detection of lying, would you accept it?

 

[sober_teacher]

Couple questions:

- Is it within the realm of possibility that the Heritage Foundation is acting independently? How did the Heritage Foundation operate prior to Jan 20th, 2017?

- If Donald J. Trump subjected himself to a lie detector conducted by a 3rd-party and DJT made this exact same statement and did not trigger detection of lying, would you accept it?

It’s really not. Look no further than where trump got most of his judicial nominees. We also know members of his campaign have done ads for Project 2025.

Frankly, I don’t think trump is capable of distinguishing fact from fiction. Just what’s real to him in that moment.

 

[Tom Paris]

Couple questions:

- Is it within the realm of possibility that the Heritage Foundation is acting independently? How did the Heritage Foundation operate prior to Jan 20th, 2017?

- If Donald J. Trump subjected himself to a lie detector conducted by a 3rd-party and DJT made this exact same statement and did not trigger detection of lying, would you accept it?

When there's video of him saying it?? Are you joking?

 

[LuciousBDragon]

When there's video of him saying it?? Are you joking?

That’s the point. He said he is not working with them and opposes some of their proposals. Chis immediately claims that he is lying. Wouldn’t that claim need direct evidence to back it up?

 

[BioHawk]

That’s the point. He said he is not working with them and opposes some of their proposals. Chis immediately claims that he is lying. Wouldn’t that claim need direct evidence to back it up?

You mean like the 30,000 lies he provided the last time? You mean like how Supreme Court judges lied during their confirmation hearings? Only a complete f**king moron will believe them when they say they don't know what Project 2025 is right now.

 

[joelbc1]

As opposed to a @Christian

w

As opposed to a “Christian” agenda…

 

[Ree4]

Oh, I understand some of that but many parents do not attempt to do the hard stuff and make their kids learn right from wrong, perseverence, you cant win all the time, and basic rules of civilization.
Many of the worst parents are rich people that coddle their kids and teach kids to blame everyone else.

And we know that the inequality of wages and net worth has been driven by since 1981 with Repub and Reagan supply economics and big tax cuts to wealthy and profitable Corps for the last 40 years. Yet so many americans in the bottom half of wealth just keep voting against their own interests for Repubs that leave them behind and yet are the top drivers of increasing national debt, just look it up.

Yep, that has more to do with hyper individualism and entitlement. You can see it in the posts of a lot of hrot posters - clearly only care about themselves.

 

[joelbc1]

FIFY

Again….”liberal”? That is unprovable! I can site you plenty of examples from real life where the antagonist was as far from “ liberal” as you can get. You let you beliefs inrwrfeee with realist Luscuios.
I think more accurate word to describe these parents might be “contrarian”… folks who oppose authority because they are contrarian…it has damn near nothing to do with liberal/conservative and is a helluva lot more accurate.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

You mean like the 30,000 lies he provided the last time? You mean like how Supreme Court judges lied during their confirmation hearings? Only a complete f**king moron will believe them when they say they don't know what Project 2025 is right now.

Why would Trump suddenly let other people call the shots? Why would he put out his own agenda (47) and then let some other group run the show? That’s completely opposite of how he does things. Not one piece of him would ever want anyone to think all choices he makes are not his idea.

 

[Tom Paris]

That’s the point. He said he is not working with them and opposes some of their proposals. Chis immediately claims that he is lying. Wouldn’t that claim need direct evidence to back it up?

I think the evidence is already there.

 

[Tom Paris]

You mean like the 30,000 lies he provided the last time? You mean like how Supreme Court judges lied during their confirmation hearings? Only a complete f**king moron will believe them when they say they don't know what Project 2025 is right now.

I don’t ever believe denials from Republicans any longer.

 

[fsu1jreed]

MAGA as a group might be the biggest pieces of shit that might have ever lived

 

[Tom Paris]

MAGA as a group might be the biggest pieces of shit that might have ever lived

Or lived. 😀

 

[LuciousBDragon]

it gas damn bear nothing to do with liberal/conservative and is a helluva lot more accurate.

Actually, it has a lot to do with ideology:

https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/briefs/ifs-gallup-parentingteenmentalhealthnov2023.pdf

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/09567976221117154

Children with liberal parents more likely to suffer mental health problems: Study - Washington Examiner

Mental Health Children with liberal parents more likely to suffer mental health problems: Study By Breccan F. Thies, Investigative Reporter December 01, 2023 07:08 PM Twitter LinkedIn Facebook Email Print Mental Health Children with liberal parents more likely to suffer mental health problems...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Science Confirms The Obvious: Strict Parents Raise Conservative Kids

Are you a bleeding-heart liberal? A rigid right-winger? Blame your parents!

www.popsci.com

 

[sober_teacher]

Busted! Trump shaking hands with the head of the Project 2025 parent group, Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts.

Trump now claims he doesn’t know “who is behind” Project 2025.

Can’t make the link from X, but yes, there’s video.

 

[joelbc1]

Why would Trump suddenly let other people call the shots? Why would he put out his own agenda (47) and then let some other group run the show? That’s completely opposite of how he does things. Not one piece of him would ever want anyone to think all choices he makes are not his idea.

I beg to differ……..how about his ideas for the Supreme Court? Where did they come from? (Not him!)

 

[sober_teacher]

I beg to differ……..how about his ideas for the Supreme Court? Where did they come from? (Not him!)

How many times do we have to see it? Trump has no grand strategy, he doesn’t think ahead. He’s only in favor of what will benefit him, in that moment.

 

[your_master5]

View embedded media

Hey shit for brains, Trumps ACTUAL agenda is on his website and formally called Agenda 47. You people are ridiculous. This whole thread is full of unhinged libtards.

Videos | Donald J. Trump For President 2024

Certified Website of Donald J. Trump For President 2024. Watch a special message from President Trump.

www.donaldjtrump.com

 

[Chishawk1425]

Hey shit for brains, Trumps ACTUAL agenda is on his website and formally called Agenda 47. You people are ridiculous. This whole thread is full of unhinged libtards.

Videos | Donald J. Trump For President 2024

Certified Website of Donald J. Trump For President 2024. Watch a special message from President Trump.

www.donaldjtrump.com