Turk or Happel?

[edquinn06]

Who do you think Brands goes with?

We all remember Gilman/Clark RSFR year where Clark won the wrestle off and Luther openand won the spot. Then Gilman went and won Midlands beating the NCAA champ in the finals and became the starter. Then Gilman took two loses to Minny and PSU and Clark took the spot back for the rest of he year.

Will we see a similar sage at 141 this year? Who do you think wins the spot? I feel Happel has better D on his feet, but Turk has better O on his feet. I feel both ride and turn similar, but I feel Happel is better at getting out on bottom and not getting turned. For this last reason I feel Happel will do better against competition and win the spot.

 

[Inspiteofourselves]

I'll let you know after midlands.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Who do you think Brands goes with?

We all remember Gilman/Clark RSFR year where Clark won the wrestle off and Luther openand won the spot. Then Gilman went and won Midlands beating the NCAA champ in the finals and became the starter. Then Gilman took two loses to Minny and PSU and Clark took the spot back for the rest of he year.

Will we see a similar sage at 141 this year? Who do you think wins the spot? I feel Happel has better D on his feet, but Turk has better O on his feet. I feel both ride and turn similar, but I feel Happel is better at getting out on bottom and not getting turned. For this last reason I feel Happel will do better against competition and win the spot.

I tend to agree with you, but i'm wondering if the cut to 141 may be affecting Turk a bit, had heard he struggled a bit getting down to weight this year, at least in the early part of the season.

 

[edquinn06]

I'll let you know after midlands.

But that might not decide it. Gilman had the spot after Midlands but got stuck by Minny and lost to Nico. And gave it back to Clark.

 

[edquinn06]

I tend to agree with you, but i'm wondering if the cut to 141 may be affecting Turk a bit, had heard he struggled a bit getting down to weight this year, at least in the early part of the season.

I don't understand this when most of the guys he has wrestled appear to be bigger then him.

 

[rossel 33]

Hard to say. Initially, figured Turk was the guy, based on past message board hype. Was never that impressed with Happel. Until recently. Happel hanging in there and beating a ranked guy boosted his stock.

Agree with inspiteof, Midlands may give us the answer.

 

[LaxHawk174]

I don't understand this when most of the guys he has wrestled appear to be bigger then him.

Looks can be deceiving, for example, many seem to think Lugo is a small 149 lber and can make 141, despite him weighing somewhere in the upper 150's - low 160's during certification and not certifying for 141.

 

[Jaybird319]

Sample size is relatively small as of now. Turk lack of head n hands defense is more bothersome to me then Happels limited O currently.

I can live with 2-3 offense moves vs wrestling from behind with no sense of urgency

 

[texas twister]

I thought Happel looked more offensive on his feet. Turk had no offense against better opponents.

 

[JohnBasedow]

whoever earns the spot at Midlands will get the next crack. I don’t care who it is as long as they can seize the opportunity. Talent isn’t an issue with either guy IMO.

That being said if I had to make a prediction I would say Happel.

 

[johnbeerpong]

I think its Happel right now, but I'm still not sold on him. That match against Diehl was a bit deceiving. Happel got the win yes, but Diehl threw what I thought was a weak headlock that Carter countered for a TD, and I believe there was another fluky/weird scramble that Happel scored on? I remember the headlock for sure, but couldnt remember for sure on the second part so correct me if I was wrong. I just know I was thinking that a lot of his points in that match arent something I would bet on being scored again in a rematch.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Id say Happel. He seems to want to fight for a full 7 min. Plus Turk has been in the room long enough that he is what he is. All things considered give me the younger fighter.

 

[edquinn06]

Id say Happel. He seems to want to fight for a full 7 min. Plus Turk has been in the room long enough that he is what he is. All things considered give me the younger fighter.

Turk did miss a lot of that time with shoulder surgery.

 

[YoungGun07]

If its 50/50, give me Happel. I doubt Turk will improve much since this is his 3rd year in the room already.

 

[hogghawk]

Give me Happel. Get him in the lineup so his brother has more reason to be in carver.

 

[grapplefann]

This is why there are wrestle-offs. The winner wrestles. That said, I think that Happel has more upside right now, but one win over top twenty talent isn't enough to earn a starting job.

 

[CumberlandHawk]

I got a feeling this one may take a few twists and turn before the year ends. Happel looks to be in the drivers seat now. Gotta like his effort in the last match.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Vince is far too limited on his feet and on bottom to succeed at this level. Carter's feet are too slow to succeed at this level. Carter can be taught to make a couple changes to his neutral defense and he could improve. Neither of them can beat Murin if he gets to 133.

 

[anon_hc7hkvtk15hp5]

I tend to agree with you, but i'm wondering if the cut to 141 may be affecting Turk a bit, had heard he struggled a bit getting down to weight this year, at least in the early part of the season.

Wasn't the cut to 125 a bit much for Clark as well? Could have been part of the reason Gilman wrestled some of those matches.

Wonder if this is a good comparison in more ways?

 

[Fan In Black]

I hope Happel takes the spot.

 

[pumpdog20]

Let's go with Happel. Sure he's not lived up to expectations... being a freshman and all

 

[24 so far]

This is why there are wrestle-offs. The winner wrestles. That said, I think that Happel has more upside right now, but one win over top twenty talent isn't enough to earn a starting job.

Wrestle-offs are glorified exhibitions. If you can't beat anybody outside of your room what's the point?

 

[artradley]

Wrestle-offs are glorified exhibitions. If you can't beat anybody outside of your room what's the point?

This. Guys wrestle in the room so much they get used to each other and know all their moves -- it makes for deceptive matches. The true test is how they do against the competition.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Gonna wait till after midlands may the best win go with it.

 

[AmazenBlue88]

Hap ftw.

 

[Czech Hawk]

I wish it was more similar to the Clark / Gilman situation. Both were AA calibure guys that year (Clark 5th) Gonna take some work from either one of these guys to get there stock that high. Midlands is definitely the opportunity and I hope one of them seizes it.

 

[Knight563]

2018-2019 Murin

 

[24 so far]

Wrestle-offs are glorified exhibitions. If you can't beat anybody outside of your room what's the point?

Should add, I have no dog in this hunt, I just want somebody at 141 to kick some butt for us. Been a while.

 

[Dont_Just_Dream]

Great topic to fill a little lull ... I lean Happel at this point. That being said, I'd be happy if either took the spot and ran. I value wrestle-offs and Turk winning that, but if he can't get it done under the lights and Happel can, the choice is easy. Still early, so may the best man win (as many matches as possible).

 

[Tcalumet]

Great topic to fill a little lull ... I lean Happel at this point. That being said, I'd be happy if either took the spot and ran. I value wrestle-offs and Turk winning that, but if he can't get it done under the lights and Happel can, the choice is easy. Still early, so may the best man win (as many matches as possible).

Hopefully riding the pine a little has woke Turk up - not that I have a preference - hope happel does well too. Just seems like Turk needs a fire lit under him.

 

[Dagboi]

Hopefully riding the pine a little has woke Turk up - not that I have a preference - hope happel does well too. Just seems like Turk needs a fire lit under him.

I wonder if it’s more nerves than motivation. Seems tentative, seems to shrink from the moment. Doesn’t flow.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

Turk has let guys get to his legs early and has been been unable to climb back into the match once his opponent plays defense. Coach Brands talks about being ready to go and he hasn’t been in the first period. His one shining strength has been his gas tank. I hope they meet in the Midlands finals.

 

[jvclark]

This is why there are wrestle-offs. The winner wrestles. That said, I think that Happel has more upside right now, but one win over top twenty talent isn't enough to earn a starting job.

It may be when the other guy fighting for the job hasn't had that top 20 win.

 

[grapplefann]

This. Guys wrestle in the room so much they get used to each other and know all their moves -- it makes for deceptive matches. The true test is how they do against the competition.

It makes for matches that are closer than they should be. Ultimately, however, the better guy wins. Wrestle offs remind everyone in the room that starting positions are earned, not given. Part of earning a position is beating the competition.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Turk has let guys get to his legs early and has been been unable to climb back into the match once his opponent plays defense. Coach Brands talks about being ready to go and he hasn’t been in the first period. His one shining strength has been his gas tank. I hope they meet in the Midlands finals.

I don't think the problem is his gas tank. What I've seen this year is that he doesn't do anything with his gas tank. As someone else stated, he just looks tentative the entire match, perhaps waiting to wear the other guy down, I don't know. But either way he's just been flat. Like you all, I want the best opportunity for points in March and Turk hasn't shown it. So I'd rather go with a guy (Happel) who seems - at least so far this year - to have more upside potential if we keep throwing him out there. Again, may the best man get the nod...

 

[SPOONER]

Vince is far too limited on his feet and on bottom to succeed at this level. Carter's feet are too slow to succeed at this level. Carter can be taught to make a couple changes to his neutral defense and he could improve. Neither of them can beat Murin if he gets to 133.

? If Murin is at 133 whys he wrestling Turk and Happel?

 

[SPOONER]

It makes for matches that are closer than they should be. Ultimately, however, the better guy wins. Wrestle offs remind everyone in the room that starting positions are earned, not given. Part of earning a position is beating the competition.

Not true. That is why a legion of wrestling coaches, among them Tom Brands and Cael Sanderson, do not use wrestle offs as the only measuring stick for determining who gets a spot. Especially when the season is so long and grueling.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Wasn't the cut to 125 a bit much for Clark as well? Could have been part of the reason Gilman wrestled some of those matches.

Wonder if this is a good comparison in more ways?

IDK if Clark/Gilman is the best example to how Brands makes the call. The reason is what's not talked about is Clark was struggling with grades early on (probably HALO lol)but it wasn't really brought to life on this board because so was Marlin. And Marlin was a lot worse off. Clark was more he needed to put more effeort in, Marlin was it just isn't there. I do remember being told from my source lol, that Cory was just better than Gilman at that time but they were sending a message to Clark to get his other things in order. To this day I still don't believe the Brancale match would have mattered. Clark was the guy they believed could go deeper in OKC because of his ability to score in all positions and smother you and turn you.

IMO Brands thinking was shown with how he handled Ramos/ Trey Clark and Kerr/ Jansenn. In the end he is going to pick who is more active, who has more fight because he can mold that. Its hard to shape standing around if they wont pull a trigger. Brands will pick the trigger everytime and I agree. Didn't matter how sweet Trey Clark and Kerr's defense were. That's why IMO Happel is going to get the nod even if he loses to Turk say 3-2.

 

[YoungGun07]

Tyler Clark, not Trey. I do agree with you 100%.

 

[MilleGinja]

IDK if Clark/Gilman is the best example to how Brands makes the call. The reason is what's not talked about is Clark was struggling with grades early on (probably HALO lol)but it wasn't really brought to life on this board because so was Marlin. And Marlin was a lot worse off. Clark was more he needed to put more effeort in, Marlin was it just isn't there. I do remember being told from my source lol, that Cory was just better than Gilman at that time but they were sending a message to Clark to get his other things in order. To this day I still don't believe the Brancale match would have mattered. Clark was the guy they believed could go deeper in OKC because of his ability to score in all positions and smother you and turn you.

IMO Brands thinking was shown with how he handled Ramos/ Trey Clark and Kerr/ Jansenn. In the end he is going to pick who is more active, who has more fight because he can mold that. Its hard to shape standing around if they wont pull a trigger. Brands will pick the trigger everytime and I agree. Didn't matter how sweet Trey Clark and Kerr's defense were. That's why IMO Happel is going to get the nod even if he loses to Turk say 3-2.

Do you mean Tyler Clark?