U of M wrestling under investigation

[Azchief32]

The Hawks don't need a strong Gopher program to be a National Championship contender. We lose one rival, we gain another. Hell... just last year you could make a case that a school like VTech has become out newest rival. Minnesota is on the verge of fading into oblivion. We talk about it because they used to be competitive.

I get the message board hate...see the comments after our boys got busted last year. Some fans on every side will have some schadenfreude at opposing teams failures...that's just the way it is in sports and the internet.

Except for 2016, which was a real down year when they finished 17th, they finished in the top ten 6 times since and to include 2010 and had two seconds and a third. While we are doing better, that's not bad. Plus, how many seniors did they graduate in 2015? I like Minnesota the same way I like ISU, they are regional rivals that put butts in the seats and make wrestling exciting. Sure as hell would hate to see a weak Minnesota because it is fun beating them without the excuses. Just my opinion.

 

[moosemonster]

They are both covered in the standard drug screen. Only problem is that it only remains in the system for a couple/few days. Longer if you have been taking them everyday.

 

[wasdt21]

mitch I like you as a poster(no punches pulled), just want to know why you would go over there and read that crap when you know what you are going to find. screw'em

 

[MitchL]

I get the message board hate...see the comments after our boys got busted last year. Some fans on every side will have some schadenfreude at opposing teams failures...that's just the way it is in sports and the internet.

Except for 2016, which was a real down year when they finished 17th, they finished in the top ten 6 times since and to include 2010 and had two seconds and a third. While we are doing better, that's not bad. Plus, how many seniors did they graduate in 2015? I like Minnesota the same way I like ISU, they are regional rivals that put butts in the seats and make wrestling exciting. Sure as hell would hate to see a weak Minnesota because it is fun beating them without the excuses. Just my opinion.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on the importance of Gopher wrestling being relevant.

The growing problem and recurring problem for them has been the inability to attract any top in-State talent other than the legacy recruits. I suspect there are some issues that the homegrown kids and parents are aware of that Iowa fans may not know about. Think about it... as a young stud wrestler... wouldn't it be nice to wrestle at the local D1 school where friends and family can easily come watch you. Yet... all the top guys are going out of State. Something is rotten at the "U".

 

[Azchief32]

I guess we'll just have to disagree on the importance of Gopher wrestling being relevant.

Most duals are predetermined. For the most part, ours with Minne, PSU, OSU, and tOSU are not. To me this is fun and gets the blood going. Was it not fun to see Mike beat Storley in their house? While there is validity to having another team out of the way of our goals for the next four or five years, they have some good guys coming and it would have been fun. I'm a what's good for Iowa first, wrestling second. But most recruits cite Carver crowds and big time matches as a reason to come here...last year sucked, OSU aside, because Minne was in a down year and no PSU or tOSU. Plus, ISU has become an "Iowa Duals" type of match. Some of these kids have never known the joy of a decent Iowa/Iowa State match.

BTW, this isn't my typical you're being a douchebag lecture...haha. I get where you are coming from.

 

[grappler6]

So MitchL let me try to Understand this. You hate the Gophers because their board is "filled" with fans like you? (Fans that revel in the misery and misfortune of the rival team)

Hope this doesn't kill our bromance haha.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Including the usual suspects to include cocaine, MJ etc, the military now tests for benzos and prescription opioids. I have tested hot twice for them on random drug tests but had a prescription in both cases. I imagine the schools can do the same.

Correct, chief. It wouldn't be difficult to test for Xanax. If someone were to test positive without a prescription, he'd be busted.

 

[MitchL]

So MitchL let me try to Understand this. You hate the Gophers because their board is "filled" with fans like you? (Fans that revel in the misery and misfortune of the rival team)

Hope this doesn't kill our bromance haha.

Someone just asked me why I dislike the Gophers! I explained why. The Minny board is/was filled with sunshine pumpers who, until now, never really were objective about their own program and reveled more in Iowa losing than Minnesota winning. You've been around long enough to know I am right..

What I have noticed in the last several months is that the feelings have changed. Since the NCAA collapse in 2015 to the miserable results last season... many fans are now realizing J should leave. I'd guess the board there has gone from 90/10 pro J to 30/70. That tells me even the locals are aware of what the rest of the wrestling world sees.

And no... our bromance is alive and well. I don't like too many people, but I like you.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I guess we'll just have to disagree on the importance of Gopher wrestling being relevant.

The growing problem and recurring problem for them has been the inability to attract any top in-State talent other than the legacy recruits. I suspect there are some issues that the homegrown kids and parents are aware of that Iowa fans may not know about. Think about it... as a young stud wrestler... wouldn't it be nice to wrestle at the local D1 school where friends and family can easily come watch you. Yet... all the top guys are going out of State. Something is rotten at the "U".

I'm more with Mitch on this. Yes, the more strong programs, the better for the sport. Fortunately, there are strong programs emerging around the country. VT, NC State, and even Rutgers to a lesser degree, have emerged recently as up-and-comers, to name a few. While I welcome strong programs in general, I'm OK with pounding ISU and MN annually and taking on our bigger challenges against the likes of PSU, tOSU, Okie State, etc. Iowa has traditionally recruited against multiple wrestling powers in their vicinity -- primarily ISU and MN. I'm fine with PSU having to deal with more strong programs out east in their recruiting and giving the Hawks first pick of elite talent in Iowa and Minnesota.

 

[255]

I'm more with Mitch on this. Yes, the more strong programs, the better for the sport. Fortunately, there are strong programs emerging around the country. VT, NC State, and even Rutgers to a lesser degree, have emerged recently as up-and-comers, to name a few. While I welcome strong programs in general, I'm OK with pounding ISU and MN annually and taking on our bigger challenges against the likes of PSU, tOSU, Okie State, etc. Iowa has traditionally recruited against multiple wrestling powers in their vicinity -- primarily ISU and MN. I'm fine with PSU having to deal with more strong programs out east in their recruiting and giving the Hawks first pick of elite talent in Iowa and Minnesota.

I get your point though I think Mitch is taking it way too far. I think the more strong teams the better but to each his own. I also think it is wise to keep "there by the grace of God go I" in mind. These kind of senarios could happen to anyone.

 

[24 so far]

I'm more with Mitch on this. Yes, the more strong programs, the better for the sport. Fortunately, there are strong programs emerging around the country. VT, NC State, and even Rutgers to a lesser degree, have emerged recently as up-and-comers, to name a few. While I welcome strong programs in general, I'm OK with pounding ISU and MN annually and taking on our bigger challenges against the likes of PSU, tOSU, Okie State, etc. Iowa has traditionally recruited against multiple wrestling powers in their vicinity -- primarily ISU and MN. I'm fine with PSU having to deal with more strong programs out east in their recruiting and giving the Hawks first pick of elite talent in Iowa and Minnesota.

I actually believe the opposite. I think it's better for Iowa if ISU and Minny are strong, because I don't think we lose too many recruiting battles to either one for the most part. And it keeps more eyes on the Midwest as far as wrestling goes. Plus the dual component is off the charts for Iowa fans when these teams are tough.

 

[jammenz]

One instance was the theft charges against the three Iowa wrestlers which eventually led to Gross leaving the team. Another was the "poaching/hunting" fiasco where Zadick and a few others were involved. Then there's always the Iowa coaches being warned for a little overzealous activity at matside which occasionally leads to a point or two being docked. Obviously, none of those are even remotely as severe as is what is being alleged in Gooferville.

Just three incidents caused all this rejoicing and relishing by Gopher fans? I certainly understand your mindset now, however, it does appear that you have forgotten some biggies. Perhaps, like your Penn State brethen, you've just started following the sport. Should I send you a google doc?

 

[TarpHawk]

I get your point though I think Mitch is taking it way too far. I think the more strong teams the better but to each his own. I also think it is wise to keep "there by the grace of God go I" in mind. These kind of senarios could happen to anyone.

Minny out-scored the Hawks at NCAAs 3 of the past 5 years. We need to focus on getting our own house in order before bashing others too loudly. Win NCAAs and all other distractions and slights magically fade away.

 

[whejoe]

MitchL's obsession with the gophs reminds me of Choco Taco's obsession with IAwrestle.

 

[dunkej01]

Just three incidents caused all this rejoicing and relishing by Gopher fans? I certainly understand your mindset now, however, it does appear that you have forgotten some biggies. Perhaps, like your Penn State brethen, you've just started following the sport. Should I send you a google doc?

he isnt #1 P4P for nothing folks!

 

[FineMaterial]

Don't take too provincial of a view on Minny's troubles. Wrestling is in trouble. While there has been some good news the last few years there are still only a handful of programs that generate a crowd. Minnesota needs to be saved. End of discussion.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Don't take too provincial of a view on Minny's troubles. Wrestling is in trouble. While there has been some good news the last few years there are still only a handful of programs that generate a crowd. Minnesota needs to be saved. End of discussion.

Crowds aren't the biggest problem imo. The health of ESPN is though. They are dumping people right and left trying to stop the bleeding, and the NCAA saddled them with a $20M yearly loss for scheduling the national semis in football on NYE. That's gonna happen another couple times in the next 3 years. When the dust settles and the tv contract for non-revenue sports comes up for renewal, don't be surprised when wrestling is marginalized yet again because ESPN will be more choosy with programming content and money. Just a hunch. Less money means fewer programs.

 

[Azchief32]

MitchL's obsession with the gophs reminds me of Choco Taco's obsession with IAwrestle.

Haha...Id say this is situational with Mitch. ISU is on his dartboard. At least it's s team thing. Choco seems like his is personal. Tony...you know anything about this?

 

[FineMaterial]

Crowds aren't the biggest problem imo. The health of ESPN is though. They are dumping people right and left trying to stop the bleeding, and the NCAA saddled them with a $20M yearly loss for scheduling the national semis in football on NYE. That's gonna happen another couple times in the next 3 years. When the dust settles and the tv contract for non-revenue sports comes up for renewal, don't be surprised when wrestling is marginalized yet again because ESPN will be more choosy with programming content and money. Just a hunch. Less money means fewer programs.

#1 Penn State vs #8 Illinois, Plus a 1 vs 2 match in Martinez vs Nolf, Attendance: 1,451
Iowa at Nothwestern, less than a thousand.
That's sad. And it does matter.

 

[whejoe]

Haha...Id say this is situational with Mitch. ISU is on his dartboard. At least it's s team thing. Choco seems like his is personal. Tony...you know anything about this?

Yeah, MitchL is a good poster, he just doesn't like the gophs and ISU, so that was probably a bad comparison. Not sure what the backstory is on Choco and Tony, although Choco has been pretty quiet about it for a few months.

 

[Pennstate1985]

#1 Penn State vs #8 Illinois, Plus a 1 vs 2 match in Martinez vs Nolf, Attendance: 1,451
Iowa at Nothwestern, less than a thousand.
That's sad. And it does matter.

Didn't say that it didn't matter, and thanks for the cherry picked results. I'm saying that tv money matters more than attendance money to the future of the sport short and medium term. Long term, we do have to figure out how to grow the sport, but that's for another thread.

 

[moug]

My bad if I missed it somewhere earlier but per Flo, J has been placed on administrative leave.

 

[TarpHawk]

My bad if I missed it somewhere earlier but per Flo, J has been placed on administrative leave.

Ouch. Cue foreboding music.

 

[Pennstate1985]

My bad if I missed it somewhere earlier but per Flo, J has been placed on administrative leave.

Serious question. When was the last time a coach in any sport at any university ultimately survived being put on paid administrative leave? It seems like that is what universities do to distance themselves from the coach while negotiating a buyout of a contract.

 

[Pennstate1985]

http://www.startribune.com/j-robinson-placed-on-paid-administrative-leave-by-mark-coyle/381532691/

Your first day on the job as AD and you get to suspend your most high profile coach. I bet he had an extra martini last night.

Then there's this little ditty at the end of the story...

Also on Tuesday, Robinson’s agent, James C.W. Bock, who issued a statement late Monday disputing allegations that Robinson acted improperly in self-policing the drug issue, wrote to the Star Tribune in a text message: “I have no further comment until the University starts telling the truth about what it knows.”

Those are bridge burning comments there, and I can't see how JRob survives them even if he is completely innocent of any rumor out there. You can't call your employer a liar in public and expect to keep your job. Period.

 

[1stplacehawk]

http://www.startribune.com/j-robinson-placed-on-paid-administrative-leave-by-mark-coyle/381532691/

Your first day on the job as AD and you get to suspend your most high profile coach. I bet he had an extra martini last night.

Then there's this little ditty at the end of the story...

Also on Tuesday, Robinson’s agent, James C.W. Bock, who issued a statement late Monday disputing allegations that Robinson acted improperly in self-policing the drug issue, wrote to the Star Tribune in a text message: “I have no further comment until the University starts telling the truth about what it knows.”

Those are bridge burning comments there, and I can't see how JRob survives them even if he is completely innocent of any rumor out there. You can't call your employer a liar in public and expect to keep your job. Period.

Yeah, looks like this might get even uglier.

 

[hawkssox1]

http://www.startribune.com/j-robinson-placed-on-paid-administrative-leave-by-mark-coyle/381532691/


. You can't call your employer a liar in public and expect to keep your job. Period.

Those weren't J's words pardner.

 

[Jay on HR]

Those weren't J's words pardner.

doesnt the lawyer speak for people in most situations when a person is potentially knee deep in legal trouble?

 

[Pennstate1985]

Those weren't J's words pardner.

his agent/lawyer = Jrob in situations like this

The agent only knows what JRob has told him. So, when he says that, you can bet it came from JRob at some point. To the U of M, they are one and the same person at this point. I note no public disavowal of the comments by JRob and/or backtracking from the agent, and it's been a day.

 

[moosemonster]

As I said yesterday, the lawyer and JRob are trying to salvage money at this point. The job is long gone.

 

[tennesseeold#7's]

I would have to agree. When you call your employer out as covering up something like this, I cannot see any way where you comes back. He could be completely innocent and not come back. Would you want to if you are J? If the U of M is having him fall on the knife why would he want to work there? Just an ugly situation for a team that I have grown to love.

I won't go as far as MitchL is going with my rivalry with IA, but I will say that I would rather face a strong IA lineup than a down IA lineup as a Gopher fan. It makes the rivalry much more enjoyable for me and the lay person trying to get into the rivalry. It wasn't that long ago that the MN vs IA match was held at a sold out Target Center. If you try to tell me that isn't good for both programs and wrestling itself I would call you an idiot. As pointed out by another poster on this thread, MN has beat IA in NCAA finishes in 3 of the past 5 years. Each program has had 3 titles per their current head coaches. To me that's a pretty even rivalry.

As far as Gopher fans calling out IA for indiscretions in the past... I wouldn't go as far as you are Mitch. I would say with a high level of certainty that most Gopher fans like IA as the programs are pretty similar. The dislike comes from fans on both sides that act like you are acting right now. I am not going to get into IA did this and MN did that... every program has it's skeletons. The fans are the ones that build the vitriol dislike between each other. My friend Izzman on the guillotine was a freaking Brands fanatic in High School and emulated everything he did he and cannot stand IA now because of the fans. He goes over the top and I tell him all the time that he needs to step back, because 80% or more of the fans are just fine.

 

[SPOONER]

Those weren't J's words pardner.

Not his words. But it was his sentiment.

 

[hawkssox1]

Not his words. But it was his sentiment.

Now we have guy's on here with fn ESP.I am done he is gone.

 

[SPOONER]

Now we have guy's on here with fn ESP.I am done he is gone.

I know you're a blockhead but if you don't understand he was speaking on J's behalf you have reached an entirely new level.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I know you're a blockhead but if you don't understand he was speaking on J's behalf you have reached an entirely new level.

Yeah, a lawyer that says something like that without his client's consent now has an ex-client.

Better Call Saul!

 

[Neo_Hawk]

How many more posts on this thread until it overtakes the Grothus thread? Similarity Spoiler Alert, the topic of this thread will result in ZERO team points in Big10's and Nationals.

 

[Pennstate1985]

How many more posts on this thread until it overtakes the Grothus thread? Similarity Spoiler Alert, the topic of this thread will result in ZERO team points in Big10's and Nationals.

I'll take the over on that. The disfunctionality to the north may provide more points at nationals than otherwise may have been.

 

[MitchL]

Cue the band... Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Hey Hey Ey Gooood bye!

Pride is a tough thing to battle, but J needs to resign. His legacy has been tarnished forever.

While he has been a great ambassador for the sport over the years, this incident likely negates EVERYTHING good he has ever done.

Sad on so many fronts.

 

[24 so far]

Yeah, looks like this might get even uglier.

I believe they also stated on KFAN today that a search warrant had been obtained for JRobs residence.

Edit - I didn't read the Red Star article linked, but reading it now and it said the University Police had already searched his home and took his computer, etc.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I actually believe the opposite. I think it's better for Iowa if ISU and Minny are strong, because I don't think we lose too many recruiting battles to either one for the most part. And it keeps more eyes on the Midwest as far as wrestling goes. Plus the dual component is off the charts for Iowa fans when these teams are tough.

I don't think that's true. Iowa and MN have battled for plenty of the same recruits over the years. Iowa has battled ISU for quite a few, too, but ISU has been so bad for so long that they haven't been a threat. If you have MN and ISU programs both in the top 5, they're going to be taking a good chunk of kids who otherwise likely would be Hawks. I think it's easy to downplay the challenge ISU and MN could pose in recruiting these days because both programs are down and aren't a threat.

Sure, in general, the more strong programs, the better for the sport. But as an Iowa fan first, I'm fine with having a down ISU and MN where the recruiting battle is concerned. I'm OK with blowing them out in dual meets and having bigger showdowns with the PSU's, tOSU's, and Okie States of the world. Having a strong ISU and MN is all well and good where the overall health of college wrestling is concerned, but it does Iowa no favors where winning national titles is concerned. I don't have a huge problem with ISU and/or MN being top-5 programs, for the sake of the sport, but all things being equal, I'd prefer to dominate them annually in every respect and let PSU compete for recruits with a bunch of strong programs in their own neck of the woods.