I guess it depends on who you ask. I'm not in that camp. (No pun intended.)
U of M wrestling under investigation
- Thread starter fred17hawk
- Start date
Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree.
We wrestle ISU and Minny every year (I don't know if Minny is "protected" or not as far as the Big Ten goes - we know PSU and fOSU aren't). I'd rather keep the interest and intensity up by having people WANT to attend meets live, and I think that suffers when people know there is an ass-kicking on the way (yeah it's fun, but after a bunch of them the fun isn't anywhere near the same - might as well wrestle Coe at that point). I think the attendance records will support that already (mostly relative to ISU of course - Minny's demise is pretty short at this point). Plus it's a short drive to Ames, and not bad to Minneapolis if you want to watch the Hawks in person while not in Carver. Iowan's aren't going to be going in droves to Columbus or Happy Valley for a dual in the dead of winter.
We've pretty much dominated ISU and Minny recruiting regardless of their status, when we're going head to head IMO (if we didn't Cael would still be in Ames), so they don't concern me any more than anybody else, but we're not going to win them all regardless of who we're up against. Those teams being better keeps the recruits focused on what is going on in the Midwest, and right now as you say a lot of that has shifted East to PSU and fOSU, Cornell, etc., so why not put it back here, like it has been most of our lives? The best way for that to happen is for Midwest teams to be stronger. All of them. IMO.
Granted, ISU and Minny are hot messes right now, and Iowa is flailing as far as Titles go, so they all need to up their game. That's the best way to steal any thunder from the East, IMO. Besides we've recently got 4 commits from Cael's backyard (granted, none that he wanted ............) and 1 from Ryan's. If we can do that, we can handle whatever Minny and ISU throw at us.
I know my world is better when ISU and Minny are a real threat, in whatever setting it is, and I can get there will not too much trouble when inclined (which has been a lot over the years). Aside from the fact it's a lot easier to find an ISU or Minny fan to "argue" with in person. Win, win.
At this point in this saga... I have a question and then I'll follow with a comment.
First the question... Is this considered a doping scandal or just a bunch of dopes in a scandal?
Now the comment... It's pretty obvious the wrestlers weren't using PEDs because there weren't too many "enhanced performances" from the Gophers in the last year and a half.
Minnesota media outlets are labeling this as potentially the biggest scandal in Gopher athletics history. Given just how checkered the Gopher history is, that's really saying something. Bigger than the Haskins academic scandal? Bigger than the Thug U attack of tOSU MBB team?
Just be glad we don't have to identify as Gopher fans.
First the question... Is this considered a doping scandal or just a bunch of dopes in a scandal?
Now the comment... It's pretty obvious the wrestlers weren't using PEDs because there weren't too many "enhanced performances" from the Gophers in the last year and a half.
Minnesota media outlets are labeling this as potentially the biggest scandal in Gopher athletics history. Given just how checkered the Gopher history is, that's really saying something. Bigger than the Haskins academic scandal? Bigger than the Thug U attack of tOSU MBB team?
Just be glad we don't have to identify as Gopher fans.
Now for some actual facts instead of Mitchell's rants:
Attorney Bock starts at 22 minutes:http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/audio/sports-to-the-max-with-mike-max/
video of Bock:http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/...ch-leave/?mc_cid=7ffe7c45c4&mc_eid=1db055755e
Attorney Bock starts at 22 minutes:http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/audio/sports-to-the-max-with-mike-max/
video of Bock:http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/...ch-leave/?mc_cid=7ffe7c45c4&mc_eid=1db055755e
Assuming JRob and the University come to an agreement that it is best for everyone involved to part ways. Unfortunately I don't think you can overcome public opinion even if he turns out to be in the right. J gets his contract paid out, plus retains access to the university for his camps.
I dont see how he is going to get access for camps at UoM, as this has the sounds of a bitter-bitter divorce. Plus he doesnt need them as there are satellite camps already established (at least here in PA) so just go that route.
True, but the cost for him to have full access of university facilities is very minimal. Hard to get that same setup, so he will try his best to get that. Not saying it will happen but that is something I imagine he will fight for. His camps are going to make him money long after he is done coaching.
Seriously? Only guilty people hire lawyers when it looks the the crap is going to hit the fan?
If you truly believe that MepoDawg# you are very ill informed. In todays day and age you are guilty until proven innocent. A pure side effect of media using shock and awe to garner clicks and sell papers. If you don't hire an attorney a small cut can turn into a gash in a very small amount of time as stories grow legs quickly. Just look at how fast this story has blown up and there has been no official announcement on ANY specifics from the law. Yet most are labeling J as done and a fall guy for this crime. He could very well be guilty, but what if he is not? He still is likely done as the coach of the U of M Wrestling team that he has been the coach of for 30 years.
This. I love my folks in blue but there job is to stack charges these days because lawyers on the other side are too good at getting them thrown out. Chicken or the egg. Anything beyond a regular traffic stop...#lawyerup
I paid my retainer years ago haven't had to use it yet. plus my son is a defense atty., but in a different state.hate lawyers but sometimes you happen to meet a guy on a bridge.
WWDM I have to disagree as well because if we lose teams and fans the sport eventually fails everywhere and I for one love college wrestling. Is that a long shot? Not sure but I want to see ISU and Minny good again. All will lose recruits but I say we blow them out by just being better.
As for J being done even if he is innocent because of the lawyers comments I don't get that. If I am innocent I could leave because the University turned its back on me but if I want to return there surely can be no way they can force him out if it is found true that they did in fact lie about him. Maybe it would all be handled out of court with a massive payoff but couldn't he come back on the University with a defamation lawsuit or slander?
As for J being done even if he is innocent because of the lawyers comments I don't get that. If I am innocent I could leave because the University turned its back on me but if I want to return there surely can be no way they can force him out if it is found true that they did in fact lie about him. Maybe it would all be handled out of court with a massive payoff but couldn't he come back on the University with a defamation lawsuit or slander?
I doubt either side would want a situation where the bolded plays out in public. I am one of those saying his time at MN is done regardless of his innocence or not. I say that because some of this brouhaha no longer has anything to do with drugs, or amnesty, or right/wrong. It is JRob and the university each defending themselves against the other and waging a war of words. It is now an issue of trust, and when one or both sides ain't feeling it, it's best to move on.
I agree that it may be best to move on but if I am in his position and have done nothing wrong then you can bet your ass I am going to make it known that I did not lie and the University made me out to be the bad guy if of course that is how it is being played which the lawyers comment seems to reference. J has made enough money and for me it would not be about that, it would be about how I am portrayed to everyone in the wrestling world and the community I live in. I would not stand idly by to watch my or my family name be dragged through the mud to cover anything up.
I think we somewhat agree but just said differently coming from different viewpoints.
Not a bad post but do you realize that Minnesota fans chant who hates Iowa even when they are playing against other teams? A large percentage of Minnesota fans do have an unhealthy hatred for Iowa.
Jammiez: The relationship between the U and Robinson has been forever damaged. Likely to a degree beyond repair. The only question will be if the entire staff goes with J or not.
Gopher fans have said Eggum runs the day to day activities. So either Robinson entrusted the team to a staff unable to monitor the wrestlers or they knew about it and played ignorant. My prediction is the entire coaching staff gets shown the door and they start over with a clean slate.
Now I think the one question that remains to be answered is this... Does Jammiez continue to support the Gophers or does he jump back on the Nebraska wagon?
The question of guilt or innocence might simply be overshadowed by the question of how could this go undetected and were the appropriate measures taken by Robinson?
The reputation of Gopher wrestling is taking a big hit. The AD will be forced to do something equally big.
Gopher fans have said Eggum runs the day to day activities. So either Robinson entrusted the team to a staff unable to monitor the wrestlers or they knew about it and played ignorant. My prediction is the entire coaching staff gets shown the door and they start over with a clean slate.
Now I think the one question that remains to be answered is this... Does Jammiez continue to support the Gophers or does he jump back on the Nebraska wagon?
The question of guilt or innocence might simply be overshadowed by the question of how could this go undetected and were the appropriate measures taken by Robinson?
The reputation of Gopher wrestling is taking a big hit. The AD will be forced to do something equally big.
I don't see this scandal as all that big a deal for J, who has been rumored to be on the verge of retiring, anyway. I highly doubt he ends up in any sort of legal trouble based on what we currently know. I suppose he could stand to lose some pay from the U, but he's financially very well-off, anyway, so I don't see that as an issue, either.
Now, the U of M's reputation in the wrestling world is another story. This could devastate their recruiting and set them back quite a few years. The job immediately became less appealing to great head coaches as soon as the story broke, too. Maybe they come up with a huge hire and elevate the program's stature, but I think their coaching search just got a whole lot harder. Had J just ridden off into the sunset without controversy, I think they would have had a good shot at bringing in a top-notch coach and righting the ship pretty quickly. It could still happen, but their job just got a lot tougher. . . and it could get tougher still if the story gets uglier and/or lingers as a cloud over the program for very long.
Now, the U of M's reputation in the wrestling world is another story. This could devastate their recruiting and set them back quite a few years. The job immediately became less appealing to great head coaches as soon as the story broke, too. Maybe they come up with a huge hire and elevate the program's stature, but I think their coaching search just got a whole lot harder. Had J just ridden off into the sunset without controversy, I think they would have had a good shot at bringing in a top-notch coach and righting the ship pretty quickly. It could still happen, but their job just got a lot tougher. . . and it could get tougher still if the story gets uglier and/or lingers as a cloud over the program for very long.
Not saying you're right or you're wrong, but the biggest deal in this for me in why he might just say screw it, is because he's 69 YEARS OLD! He doesn't need to "fight" for his future like some 35 year old would, but sure plan on him fighting to not have his name tarnished if there is no basis for it (remains to be seen).
I'm certainly not saying he's too old for his job or can't be good at it, but his age is definitely a factor in how this might play out IMO, aside from the program being a bit of down cycle at the moment. You have X amount of Gopher fans who wanted him to hang it up anyway, and perhaps the new A.D. had similar thoughts (I certainly don't know, but always possible when new blood comes in).
That said, I feel guys like JRob that busted their ass for years to turn a dormant program into a National contender, should absolutely get to leave on their own terms. Felt the same way about Hayden Fry at Iowa before he retired, his last few teams were not very good, but he brought Iowa Football back from the dead, and I feel had EARNED the right to go out when he was damn good and ready (most of them know when it's time without pitchfork nation chiming in anyway).
Hard to predict the fallout really (unless you're MitchL of course! Ha!). J's going to be gone somewhat soon regardless I suppose. He is 69. So certainly this has been on peoples radar. They are still a proud program in the best Wrestling Conference in the land, with clearly some tradition and support, and a pretty good high school scene for wrestling.
I guess we'll see, but you throw enough money at someone, things get a whole lot rosier real fast! (right Cael?) I honestly don't see doom and gloom for them in the long term, but we'll see what shakes out over time I guess. In the short term it's a bitch I would surmise.
Jessie Ventura as assistant?
Along these lines, Gable was something like 49 when he retired as head coach at Iowa. Imagine his record and legacy if he'd coached another 20 YEARS and retired at J's current age. His accomplishments as a D1 head coach may very well never be matched, but they would have been in another stratosphere altogether if he'd hung around as long as J has.
He didn't seem to be "leaking any oil" when he hung it up. That's for certain. Our loss (damn fun while it lasted though!).
I agree that the biggest personal issue for Robinson is his PRIDE and his legacy. I doubt he intentionally did something he knew was wrong. And I'm sure the thing that maybe irks him right now is that he may not be leaving the program on HIS terms.
That said... this happened under his watch so he bears responsibility.
Gopher wrestling absolutely has to have new blood now to indicate they take this seriously. You can't turn the page by keeping any current staff on board.
Being in the B1G will save the program and help them back to respectability sooner.
That said... this happened under his watch so he bears responsibility.
Gopher wrestling absolutely has to have new blood now to indicate they take this seriously. You can't turn the page by keeping any current staff on board.
Being in the B1G will save the program and help them back to respectability sooner.
Disagree 100% about JRob bearing responsibility because he happens to be the Coach. He went 30 years as a Head Coach and how many before that as an assistant, and this never happened. I doubt he woke up one day and said "Man I hope a bunch of my wrestlers start partying with and dealing a prescription drug".
The "responsibility" falls squarely on the individuals who commit the violation, whatever it may be. Always has, always will.
I don't get the mindset how Coaches are responsible for peoples actions, that were strangers to them for 18 years. That's insane.
Granted, if you have worthless parents you're going to have a lot to overcome, something that most likely doesn't apply in this case, but college students are adults, young adults with a lot to learn, but adults nonetheless. In other words, old enough to know right from wrong. Most of us choose poorly at one time or another in a lifetime, and often many times. Just a matter of the consequences at that point.
Exactly. JRob bears as much responsibility for team members doing drugs as Brands does for his team members burglaries. Zero!
Boy are you missing the point. It's a coverup that is being investigated. Holy crap!
What coverup? Do you mean the Asst. AD and the Interim AD being notified of a drug issue, initiating drug testing, and then waiting two months for the new AD to arrive?
And what drug issue did J inform the university he had on the team? That seems to be where the rubber hits the road.
Here is Spencer and Tommy Thorn going at it last year at OTC
http://www.flowrestling.org/video/773976-spencer-lee-vs-tommy-thorn
Unless you know for a fact he covered something up then you are assuming. There is not way to know what is going on unless your on campus. Even those "close to the program" are being kept out. The news is not out so get off the high horse here.
Try reading my post. I said he was being investigated. The new AD publically announced that J was suspended with pay pending the outcome of ban investigation over the drug issue. The AD stated J's office and computer were searched. I never said I knew what he did, I said he was being investigated and that's a fact. Just try reading before you pop off at someone.
Pop off my ass. No where in the ad statement did they say cover up. What they serched and why are not clear. If the computer was university owned they would seize it. It is a drug investigation. Anything past that is message board guess.
He's right though. They are investigating whether there was a drug ring and whether he knew of a drug ring and didn't report it. That would be considered a coverup. The statements from his agent never mention drug selling, so it is the question being investigated.
No one is saying JRob is guilty of this, but only what seems to be the focus.
College rivalry is fine but this can be bad for the sport because it is a prominent program. I feel we need to be behind the sport and not play word games.
I have to agree with you 255. The weird thing to me is why did it take 3-4 weeks for the acting AD to send J. the papers about how to do the testing?
Know this is off topic but the media today it is hard to believe anything they print. It seems like they just don't go investigate before writing the story. Like the killing of the UCLA professor they right away came out and said it was a white male 6' tall and they where 100% wrong we don't have honest reporting news anymore in this county.
Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, in the eyes of the AD, the HC is responsible for almost EVERYTHING that happens in their program. Might seem foolish when you're dealing with young adults, but the HC is a father/mentor/teacher/cop and other things to these guys.
Until, or if, we learn more the rumors will swirl. And it's still too early to know if criminal charges may eventually come into play. The veil of secrecy that is currently in place leads to the conversation we are having now.
If I'm wrong, I'll be back to apologize. If I'm right, I'll be back to say "I told you so".
To those that think I'm full of shit... we'll see.
Until, or if, we learn more the rumors will swirl. And it's still too early to know if criminal charges may eventually come into play. The veil of secrecy that is currently in place leads to the conversation we are having now.
If I'm wrong, I'll be back to apologize. If I'm right, I'll be back to say "I told you so".
To those that think I'm full of shit... we'll see.
I see you left babysitter of your list.Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, in the eyes of the AD, the HC is responsible for almost EVERYTHING that happens in their program. Might seem foolish when you're dealing with young adults, but the HC is a father/mentor/teacher/cop and other things to these guys.
Until, or if, we learn more the rumors will swirl. And it's still too early to know if criminal charges may eventually come into play. The veil of secrecy that is currently in place leads to the conversation we are having now.
If I'm wrong, I'll be back to apologize. If I'm right, I'll be back to say "I told you so".
To those that think I'm full of shit... we'll see.
All I'm saying is you're as responsible for these kids actions as JRob is.
Might as well start with School President Kaler. If Coaches are responsible for their athletes 24/7 then surely Kaler is responsible for the entire student body right? There's your target.
