Gilman , Fix and Vito could've challenged Richards for the Pan Am spot but declined. Just like Yianni challenged Nick Lee
That was the point…
Your point makes intuitive sense, but practically is not a process that guarantees we send the best person for the job of qualifying the weight. Good example, Zane has lost matches at his last three tournaments whereas Lee has won the last three tournaments. Zane had one good year and hasn't been the same since. The fairness question is something I agree with for a trial to make a World or Olympic Team. As far as qualifying the weight you pick the person that is the country's best option. That process would benefit both the country and the person that wins the trials. This can be far more discretionary and a selection by the National Staff. This is my point. This year the choice was terrible and now we have two of six weights not even qualified for the Olympics. To answer your question above:: if the US Coaches watched a practice that had Fix and Lee in it and Lee's knees were acting up and they sent a healthy Daton that looked better to qualify the weight--no issues. I wouldn't say the same for earning the spot on the World Team or Olympic Team. My point is focused on the Olympic Qualifying weight class process. This should be far more discretionary. USA Wrestling did a horrid job setting this process in motion. Think about it. Full time professionals are paid a good wage with a primary job goal of Olympic and World team performance. Despite working full time on this endeavor, this is the best they can come up with. I think we can and should do better.
Spencer hasn't wrestled an international SR level event before Pan Ams since when ? Winning in America isn't the same the guys who were available to challenge including Zane have all had SR level international success. Zane went overseas and competed and Spencer hasn't. We have a process and just because people don't like the process that doesn't mean we should start handpicking our teams. If you want to say we should just have picked Spencer then you're saying we don't need trials or anything just pick. We live in America and we get what we earn
The US nationals bracket that had Spencer and Megaludis in it ? Nobody who was top 3 on the ladder competed. Now maybe in the future they could say if everyone declines the challenge then the US Nationals winner could challenge. But just picking a guy because fans of one team thinks he's the best isn't the answer. And that guy hasn't competed internationally in years. And I like Spencer but we can't start picking. And nobody picked Daton or Vito they earned it by being world team members while Spencer chose to not do Freestyle for years
I guess you're not counting the Bill Farrell which was a Senior International event. Or did you simply forget? It was earlier this year, oh, wait, the same year as our qualifying event? Where the tournament is held at is immaterial. It was an international Senior level event. No, I am not saying just pick a certain athlete, I am saying pick the best person, at the time, to qualify the weight. The Russians have been doing this for years, which is why they always have a full team. Maybe we can learn something. I agree with Bhabbaganoosh, at least then we would be sure to have someone wrestling well "this year" rather than going off of a result from a year ago. Or we could take your approach and, well, look at the results, and keep doing the same thing to get the same type of failure--isn't that a form of insanity? Again, I understand this is hard to comprehend, but this is only for the weight qualification process. I agree we need a solid process for the world and Olympic team. Once earned, then it's the spot for that person that qualified and then wins the trials. To qualify the weight, yes, I am okay with discretion--100%. Our current process doesn't take into consideration, the athletes current state of mind. Maybe Zane had a great year, but has been struggling with weight, or health or motivation, who knows but all of this should be considered in the weight qualification process. Now we have one event left in Turkey for a weight that we have multiple age group and senior level world medalists and is one of our strongest weights--not qualified. But we want to argue our process worked and should be continued?
No fans would attend the trials in the middle of the college season. And determining our Olympic team 6 months out just for a qualifier I don't believe is the answer. Many guys help with college programs and aren't ready in February. And 4 of our 6 weights are already qualified so changing the whole process isn't worth it for qualification.
I know the Farrell is "international" but typically nobody worthy show up. And he beat Megaludis who's a business man and doesn't even train full time. Just because we didn't qualify a weight at Pan Ams which has happened before we shouldn't change the whole process. I get that people think Spencer is the best guy. He can win trials and then go win the last chance world qualifier. So if what you think is true you've no worries and Spencer will get it done. But to change the whole process because we didn't qualify 2 weights when we already have 4 weights qualified isn't the answer. You realize whoever qualifies the weight is the #1 seed at trials ? So your handpicking the #1 seed basically. We earn seeds in wrestling
He's lost to quality international guys this year while Spencer beat Megaludis. And Spencer wrestled no international guys before Pan ams. This is the 1st time 3 guys declined the challenge matches. So I'm ok with saying in the future if that happens again then the US nationals winner can challenge for the spot. But we can't just do the eyeball test and pick. What do people want a twitter poll deciding the guy
A dual national championship is a whole different argument and I'm not in favor of it at all. UsaW has had great success lately and we have been the best in the World and now our system sucks because we didn't qualify 2 weights. We have never been better it's not time for panic. We have a good process and system. Whoever wins trials will go and try to qualify at the last chance.
I wasn’t saying Spencer should have got the chance to qualify the weight. It’s unfortunate none of the guys stepped up to challenge for the spot. My main point is Zane is not real successful on the international stage. It’s not a shocker to me at all that he did not get the job done.
West2East, you need to get your facts straight. You are digging into this issue and keep espousing statements as facts to support your perspective that I keep having to correct. That's okay, let me help you out again. No problem and I don't mind the education. First round of the Farrell, Lee beat Bilal from Pakistan. Bilal has been around for a long time and placed in multiple commonwealth games at 57kg. I never suggested a Twitter poll, but the Russians take the guy they believe has the best chance. This is simply smart, because it sets the country up in the best manner possible for the person that eventually secures the spot. My argument is our current process is flawed. It needs to change. Whether it's an over exaggerated point you make to "try" to make an augment or it's a change such as the winner of Senior Nationals or some other change, our current process is broken and "bright" people, paid a full-time salary should be able to figure something better out and that is my point.
Huh? Say what? Why would I feel disrespected if I was the baddest person at that weight in the U$? Dude wrestling for Mexico isn’t taking my place and I’ll prolly beat him at the Olympics.
Commonwealth games 🛑. Spencer will have an opportunity to qualify the weight if he wins trials. He hasn't done enough currently on the SR level to earn a chance to qualify the weight
You were wrong and try to come back with Commonwealth Games... International or not he has been wrestling in international competition since 2016 from what I could see. Also, you are ignoring my auguments completely. A. Who was the best option for us to qualify the weight? B. Is our current process set up to pick that person? If A. we did not pick the best option or B. our current process is not set up to pick that person, then my argument is that we should learn and change our process. As far as doing enough? He has won three more senior level events than Zain has in the year the weight has to be qualified! I don't care who wins the trials. The person that wins now has to go to Turkey when we BLEW the easiest path to qualification. What is hard to understand? Does anyone on this board think Jordan Oliver can't wrestle. Does anyone think that he was wrestling well when he won the trials? He didn't qualify the weight at the Last Chance, because it is 1. Tough and 2. anything can happen on any given day. A guy can get caught. We have all seen horrific calls, guys can get sick, hurt in the first round... How can anyone debate the point that our current process needs to change? West2East, you keep ignoring my point and want to focus on one person. I am not focusing on one person although in this instance, he would have been the better choice, but i am not focused on one person, but on the process that our paid full-time staff can't seem to get right.
I actually wish Gilman would have stepped up and taken the spot from Zane.
So add another weigh in and competition? Our last few world reps Gilman,Fix and Vito didn't challenge because of that . We were supposed to have a 4 man ladder tournament yet 3 guys decided against it. Not sure that solves anything. Everyone knew the process well in advance
