Was Helene worse due to hurricane weather modification?

[Hawk_82]

First, i didn’t say the government gave up on it…tho given how the GOP has turned against climate science I’m dubious how much funding they’re actually getting now, if any.

Second, again, I don’t doubt there have been and continue to be attempts at weather modification. How effective these are at regularly creating the desired effects, as well as potential long-term consequences of doing so is what I’m more doubtful of. Imo, Mother Nature is not something that should be meddled with casually.

The problem here is that there are people who are seizing on stuff like what you’ve linked as proof positive that the government is controlling the weather, that these hurricanes were created intentionally, etc. see marjorie Taylor Greene as Idiot Stooge #1 here.

1. There is are entire documents from the United Nations calling for private and NGO funding to help fight climate change. Bill gates has a lot of money and he has been outspoken about fighting climate change. He also owns climate modification patents. Im not saying this solves the money problem, but there is plenty of money out there to do this stuff. The funding has also picked up since 2015 when Obama agreed to fighting the Sustainable development goals.

2. I think this is a valid argument. I do not know how effective these efforts are. You can see that people call me stupid and a conspiracy theorist for even mentioning this idea. So it is clear many people don't even think its possible. I think the first step is to show people that weather modification is real. From there we can spend more time figuring out how effective it is, if there are adverse consequences and if it should be done in the first place.

3. I don't like the politicized nature of this stuff either. I think one of the appeals of Trump and the republicans right now is they seem to want to expose stuff like this to the public. You see this with the way republicans have fought to expose the covid origins, Twitter files, censorship, JFK files, etc. I am willing to overlook the hyperbole around the issue in hopes of it bringing more awareness to the issue.

 

[sober_teacher]

3. I don't like the politicized nature of this stuff either. I think one of the appeals of Trump and the republicans right now is they seem to want to expose stuff like this to the public. You see this with the way republicans have fought to expose the covid origins, Twitter files, censorship, JFK files, etc. I am willing to overlook the hyperbole around the issue in hopes of it bringing more awareness to the issue.

You lose me here. You think Trump gives a damn, really about any of this?he could have released the JFK files when president. He didn’t. He’s very clearly talked about censorship as a bad thing…unless it’s of people/companies that have been mean to him. They don’t care about Covid origins except for how it gives them someone to blame.

If you want a genuine discussion, you can’t simply overlook hyperbole. It distracts from any point you’re trying to make.

 

[Hawk_82]

Doing your own research.

You act like reading about this stuff from government websites is a bad thing. Why are you so scared to learn about this stuff? I am keyword searching and reading articles and documents. That doesn't make me an expert, but Im still more informed than people like you.

 

[Flie]

1. There is are entire documents from the United Nations calling for private and NGO funding to help fight climate change. Bill gates has a lot of money and he has been outspoken about fighting climate change. He also owns climate modification patents. Im not saying this solves the money problem, but there is plenty of money out there to do this stuff. The funding has also picked up since 2015 when Obama agreed to fighting the Sustainable development goals.

2. I think this is a valid argument. I do not know how effective these efforts are. You can see that people call me stupid and a conspiracy theorist for even mentioning this idea. So it is clear many people don't even think its possible. I think the first step is to show people that weather modification is real. From there we can spend more time figuring out how effective it is, if there are adverse consequences and if it should be done in the first place.

3. I don't like the politicized nature of this stuff either. I think one of the appeals of Trump and the republicans right now is they seem to want to expose stuff like this to the public. You see this with the way republicans have fought to expose the covid origins, Twitter files, censorship, JFK files, etc. I am willing to overlook the hyperbole around the issue in hopes of it bringing more awareness to the issue.

Clearly people don't want you talking about this for some reason. Why do they want to silence you so badly? What do they have to hide?!? Hmmm.... makes you think.

Thankfully Trump is there to expose things like this. For example, they exposed their theory of covid origin and have opined that it is accurate. That was a critical step for our nation. They also exposed their theory of a vast conspiracy to steal the election and have asserted that it is real. Bombshell revelation! Trump is great at hearing a crazy conspiracy theory and promoting it. If it comes from NewsMax, Faux News, or some rando redneck on the internet and sounds like it could be true, it definitely is true.

 

[Flie]

You act like reading about this stuff from government websites is a bad thing. Why are you so scared to learn about this stuff? I am keyword searching and reading articles and documents. That doesn't make me an expert, but Im still more informed than people like you.

You are connecting dots based on your own beliefs. That doesn't make you more informed.

 

[cfbfan23]

OP is a flat-earther, for sure.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

If someone only reads right wing fascist propaganda, then one only becomes informed of right wing fascist propaganda. It doesn't mean they are well informed. It might mean they are stupid and a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Hawk_82]

You lose me here. You think Trump gives a damn, really about any of this?he could have released the JFK files when president. He didn’t. He’s very clearly talked about censorship as a bad thing…unless it’s of people/companies that have been mean to him. They don’t care about Covid origins except for how it gives them someone to blame.

If you want a genuine discussion, you can’t simply overlook hyperbole. It distracts from any point you’re trying to make.

I agree. I don't trust that Trump will reveal all these secrets. I am not defending what he has done or not done. In fact, I would rather not make this a political issue.

Unfortunately, hyperbole and click bait is what brings in interest and viewers. I don't base my opinions on hyperbole though, I look for the stuff with substance and go from there.

I respect what you have said about this subject and I don't think we are to far apart on what we believe.

 

[Hawk_82]

If someone only reads right wing fascist propaganda, then one only becomes informed of right wing fascist propaganda. It doesn't mean they are well informed. It might mean they are stupid and a conspiracy theorist.

Can you show me where I linked right wing fascist propaganda in this thread? (maybe the youtube link?) but I meant that as food for thought rather than clear evidence and science. I have posted plenty of other links from the Texas gov, Colorado gov, and the federal gov.

 

[Flie]

OP is a flat-earther, for sure.

Have you read the links though? There are some really compelling arguments out there if you just open your mind.

I saw MTG has jumped on the hurricane control bandwagon using all of the same talking points. The same points you see across social media from all of the critical thinkers doing independent research.

I think a core foundational belief for this is to believe that the democrats are evil and will stop at nothing to destroy America. So of course they would do something like this.

 

[Joes Place]

Colorado government weather modification:
"The Colorado Water Conservation Board (CWCB) administers Colorado’s Weather Modification (WM) Program, which issues WM permits, monitors WM activities and keeps the public informed about the state’s WM activities. Colorado has conducted weather modification operations and research since the 1950s, and a program to permit weather modification has existed since 1972. After the significant drought starting in early 2000, many new WM permits have been developed. Colorado is a strategic state with the headwaters of eight major river basins, and downstream states are reliant on the snowpack and stream flow generated in Colorado."

Weather Modification Program | DNR CWCB

cwcb.colorado.gov

What does "cloud seeding" to supplement snowfall in Colorado ski areas have to do with hurricanes?

 

[Joes Place]

3. I don't like the politicized nature of this stuff either.

Then why do you continue to regurgitate rightwing nonsense on the topic?

A: You LOVE it!!!

 

[Hawk_82]

You are connecting dots based on your own beliefs. That doesn't make you more informed.

Well yeah, I am providing links to support my claim. duh

I haven't seen anyone else provide evidence to refute my claims. So if people think they are right and I am wrong, it should be easy to provide links that show I am wrong. Instead, most people can only name call like a middle schooler. That doesn't make me any more likely to change my opinion.

 

[Flie]

Well yeah, I am providing links to support my claim. duh

I haven't seen anyone else provide evidence to refute my claims. So if people think they are right and I am wrong, it should be easy to provide links that show I am wrong. Instead, most people can only name call like a middle schooler. That doesn't make me any more likely to change my opinion.

LOL you are more than welcome to your opinion. Admittedly, there likely aren't a lot of research papers disproving government hurricane control.



You are in good company with your beliefs along with lots of people on the internet.

Alex Jones, a right-wing conspiracy theorist who falsely claimed the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting was a hoax, amplified Greene’s false claims that the government can control the weather. “Bottom line the federal government could have killed the storm in the Gulf of Mexico,” Jones wrote on X.

Right-wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones also promoted Greene’s false claim that hurricanes can be controlled (AP)
Greene also echoed the false conspiracy that the government is sending severe weather to Republican-heavy areas, posting a map of the southeastern US that shows political affiliation by county in areas hardest hit by Hurricane Helene.

“This is a map of hurricane affected areas with an overlay of electoral map by political party shows how hurricane devastation could affect the election,” Greene wrote on October 3. The Independent has contacted Greene for comment.

These aren’t the only conspiracy theories making the rounds in the wake of Hurricane Helene.

Online, rumors have spread that the government “geoengineered” Hurricane Helene to seize control of lithium deposits in Chimney Rock, North Carolina, which was devastated by the storm.

Congressman Chuck Edwards, who represents Chimney Rock’s district, even had to release a statement debunking the claim.

 

[Joes Place]

Well yeah, I am providing links to support my claim.

No; you're not. And what's most illuminating, is that you THINK you are, because you do not have any of the core science education to understand that point.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Can you show me where I linked right wing fascist propaganda in this thread? (maybe the youtube link?) but I meant that as food for thought rather than clear evidence and science. I have posted plenty of other links from the Texas gov, Colorado gov, and the federal gov.

Your posts tell me you are so far down the right wing, fascist disinformation rabbit hole, that there is no longer any hope for you.

 

[Flie]

Some quality data to research below. Good points made with supporting links.

Link: Flat Earth Debate (engage with them; try to convince them they are wrong)

 

[Jerome Silberman]

It's kind of fun that there are people confident enough to believe humans can have meaningful impact on hurricanes, but are largely helpless when it comes to climate change.

 

[sober_teacher]

I agree. I don't trust that Trump will reveal all these secrets. I am not defending what he has done or not done. In fact, I would rather not make this a political issue.

Unfortunately, hyperbole and click bait is what brings in interest and viewers. I don't base my opinions on hyperbole though, I look for the stuff with substance and go from there.

I respect what you have said about this subject and I don't think we are to far apart on what we believe.

Well not really. I don’t think weather modification is nearly as advanced as you seem to think it is.

Hard to not bring up the politicos however, because they HAVE weaponized this topic. So while you might mean well, your arguments are getting lost in the background.

 

[Hawk_82]

It's kind of fun that there are people confident enough to believe humans can have meaningful impact on hurricanes, but are largely helpless when it comes to climate change.

I have not been a fan of the climate change agenda because I don't believe in the wind and solar solutions to the problem nor do I believe that CO2 is the number 1 cause of climate change. I also don't believe humans have the knowledge to change our climate without having major adverse effects. I understand how some could see hypocrisy in my ideas, but I think for the most part they are based in solid reasoning.

I find it ironic that some on here believe 100% that co2 is the cause of climate change but they think we cant affect the weather through modification techniques.

 

[bdcolt45er]

I wonder what the venn diagram looks like for folks who do not believe in man made climate change but do believe in hurricane modification.

 

[sober_teacher]

I have not been a fan of the climate change agenda because I don't believe in the wind and solar solutions to the problem nor do I believe that CO2 is the number 1 cause of climate change. I also don't believe humans have the knowledge to change our climate without having major adverse effects. I understand how some could see hypocrisy in my ideas, but I think for the most part they are based in solid reasoning.

I find it ironic that some on here believe 100% that co2 is the cause of climate change but they think we cant affect the weather through modification techniques.

Well, lots of scientists have done studies that seem to indicate to them that CO2 is the single biggest driver, tho not the only one.

I think you’re misunderstanding some of the responses to your posts. If we want to get serious about combatting climate change, we’re also at least indirectly discussing weather modification, if only as a result of whatever actions we take.

Weather patterns are amongst the most high-variance things on this planet that we can easily see as non-scientists, and too many either confuse that with climate change, or don’t begin to understand what they’re seeing.

 

[Hawk_82]

Well not really. I don’t think weather modification is nearly as advanced as you seem to think it is.

Hard to not bring up the politicos however, because they HAVE weaponized this topic. So while you might mean well, your arguments are getting lost in the background.

It seems like China is much more advanced than we are on weather modification. Its possible they are just implementing it more, but we still have the same knowledge/technology though. I don't know how advanced it is in practice. But the fact that China is implementing it on a large scale tells me it is effective to some extent.

I also find the weather warfare aspect of it to be extremely interesting. I don't believe our government would be telling the American public about weapons like this. But being able to control the weather would be a huge asset during war, so I can imagine that a lot of money has been spent to investigate the idea.

I am actually pretty insulated from the political side of this issue. I don't read msm and most of the sources I have read on the issue do not frame it in a political way. Having said that, I have no doubt that you are correct and it has been made into a political issue.

 

[sober_teacher]

It seems like China is much more advanced than we are on weather modification. Its possible they are just implementing it more, but we still have the same knowledge/technology though. I don't know how advanced it is in practice. But the fact that China is implementing it on a large scale tells me it is effective to some extent.

I also find the weather warfare aspect of it to be extremely interesting. I don't believe our government would be telling the American public about weapons like this. But being able to control the weather would be a huge asset during war, so I can imagine that a lot of money has been spent to investigate the idea.

I am actually pretty insulated from the political side of this issue. I don't read msm and most of the sources I have read on the issue do not frame it in a political way. Having said that, I have no doubt that you are correct and it has been made into a political issue.

China has been doing lots of things without really considering long-term impacts when they do anything. They’re also a bit more desperate to create more usable land to support their population which is 4x ours despite a significantly smaller amount of land. We have no such urgency so there hasn’t been the need to do more here.

There’s also a big difference between being able to manipulate the weather as opposed to controlling it.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

I have not been a fan of the climate change agenda because I don't believe in the wind and solar solutions to the problem nor do I believe that CO2 is the number 1 cause of climate change. I also don't believe humans have the knowledge to change our climate without having major adverse effects. I understand how some could see hypocrisy in my ideas, but I think for the most part they are based in solid reasoning.

I find it ironic that some on here believe 100% that co2 is the cause of climate change but they think we cant affect the weather through modification techniques.

I don't believe your opinions are based on solid reasoning at all. The last paragraph here makes that almost undeniable.

 

[Hawk_82]

Well, lots of scientists have done studies that seem to indicate to them that CO2 is the single biggest driver, tho not the only one.

I think you’re misunderstanding some of the responses to your posts. If we want to get serious about combatting climate change, we’re also at least indirectly discussing weather modification, if only as a result of whatever actions we take.

Weather patterns are amongst the most high-variance things on this planet that we can easily see as non-scientists, and too many either confuse that with climate change, or don’t begin to understand what they’re seeing.

I don't think climate change is as simple as CO2. I believe in having clean air and clean water. But that is not the discussion I want to get into in this thread.

I believe the way we handle water is a huge issue in climate change. So I believe humans have affected the climate, just not in the way we are led to believe. We have tiled our fields, built levees, build roads, built drainage ditches, built dams, and tried to move water into the major rivers as fast as possible. By doing this we don't allow our ground to absorb the water it needs. This messes with the water cycle and makes a huge change to our weather patterns and eventually climate. Obviously this is way overly simplified but I hope you get the point.

I agree that weather patterns are amongst the most high-variance things on the planet. This is why I don't believe humans have climate and weather "figured out". I don't believe the science around co2 because I know that scientists are not able to predict the clouds. Clouds are a huge factor for weather because they can block out the suns heat, they can give us rain, storms, etc.

I think weather modification is a byproduct of scientists trying to figure out how weather patterns work and how clouds work based on different inputs.

 

[Tenacious E]

1. There is are entire documents from the United Nations calling for private and NGO funding to help fight climate change. Bill gates has a lot of money and he has been outspoken about fighting climate change. He also owns climate modification patents. Im not saying this solves the money problem, but there is plenty of money out there to do this stuff. The funding has also picked up since 2015 when Obama agreed to fighting the Sustainable development goals.

2. I think this is a valid argument. I do not know how effective these efforts are. You can see that people call me stupid and a conspiracy theorist for even mentioning this idea. So it is clear many people don't even think its possible. I think the first step is to show people that weather modification is real. From there we can spend more time figuring out how effective it is, if there are adverse consequences and if it should be done in the first place.

3. I don't like the politicized nature of this stuff either. I think one of the appeals of Trump and the republicans right now is they seem to want to expose stuff like this to the public. You see this with the way republicans have fought to expose the covid origins, Twitter files, censorship, JFK files, etc. I am willing to overlook the hyperbole around the issue in hopes of it bringing more awareness to the issue.

Why are you so committed to something so stupid? Yes, some countries try to induce rain. Think of that as having a value of 1 in weather manipulation. However, no one and no country can generate a hurricane, redirect a hurricane, and make a hurricane go away, which would have a value of 100,000,000,000 in weather manipulation. Because a value of 1 is theoretically possible doesn't mean a value of 100,000,00,000 is being done.

 

[Hawksfinal4]

You should take a look at my links. Does it change your mind knowing that weather warfare was enough of a concern in the 70s that a treaty was developed to stop it? At the same time, the treaty states it is not intended to stop the use of weather modification for peaceful purposes.

We know bleach kills Covid to but I’m not gonna drink it

 

[Hawk_82]

China has been doing lots of things without really considering long-term impacts when they do anything. They’re also a bit more desperate to create more usable land to support their population which is 4x ours despite a significantly smaller amount of land. We have no such urgency so there hasn’t been the need to do more here.

There’s also a big difference between being able to manipulate the weather as opposed to controlling it.

There are unintended consequences for everything we do. I only bring up China as evidence that weather manipulation is happening. Do you think the weather manipulation that China and other countries are doing will (or potentially) have an effect on the weather on a global scale? I think it does. I think some of the droughts we associate with climate change may be partially due to manipulating weather in one location to make it rain, while stealing the rain from another location.

I don't believe we can Control the weather. Mother nature always wins.

 

[Hawk_82]

Why are you so committed to something so stupid? Yes, some countries try to induce rain. Think of that as having a value of 1 in weather manipulation. However, no one and no country can generate a hurricane, redirect a hurricane, and make a hurricane go away, which would have a value of 100,000,000,000 in weather manipulation. Because a value of 1 is theoretically possible doesn't mean a value of 100,000,00,000 is being done.

You are thinking of this as a binary concept. It is not all or nothing. I am fascinated by the idea that certain people/governments/groups are manipulating the weather. I have provided links showing that weather modification is happening across the world. I don't think we can control the weather and i fear the consequences of those who do think they can control the weather.

Most people such as yourself probably have never really considered weather manipulation as a real concept. I have heard about it in the past, but never spent too much time thinking about it. These recent hurricanes have brought the idea of weather modification to light. I have provided quite a few links to government websites proving that weather modification is happening. Why are you so committed to the idea that this is such a stupid idea?

NOAA and the government discuss weather modification and huricane modification on their websites. Why would they do this if weather modification was such a stupid idea? Is it possible you just don't know enough about the issue?

 

[Tenacious E]

You are thinking of this as a binary concept. It is not all or nothing. I am fascinated by the idea that certain people/governments/groups are manipulating the weather. I have provided links showing that weather modification is happening across the world. I don't think we can control the weather and i fear the consequences of those who do think they can control the weather.

Most people such as yourself probably have never really considered weather manipulation as a real concept. I have heard about it in the past, but never spent too much time thinking about it. These recent hurricanes have brought the idea of weather modification to light. I have provided quite a few links to government websites proving that weather modification is happening. Why are you so committed to the idea that this is such a stupid idea?

NOAA and the government discuss weather modification and huricane modification on their websites. Why would they do this if weather modification was such a stupid idea? Is it possible you just don't know enough about the issue?

I think of cloud seeding to induce rain a spit in the ocean compared to manipulating hurricane formation and dissipation.

 

[hawkeyez]

I just skimmed this thread, so some of this was probably already discussed.

Cloud seeding is definitely happening in places like the UAE. I'm sure the US has experimented with it in drought ridden areas of California and the west coast over the years.

What I can't grasp is the MAGA/Twitter conspiracy theories on why the US Government would try to make a hurricane stronger?

 

[Hawksfinal4]

I just skimmed this thread, so some of this was probably already discussed.

Cloud seeding is definitely happening in places like the UAE. I'm sure the US has experimented with it in drought ridden areas of California and the west coast over the years.

What I can't grasp is the MAGA/Twitter conspiracy theories on why the US Government would try to make a hurricane stronger?

So we can destroy our enemies within , you know patriot Maga’s. It’s not a perfect plan

 

[goldmom]

I just skimmed this thread, so some of this was probably already discussed.

Cloud seeding is definitely happening in places like the UAE. I'm sure the US has experimented with it in drought ridden areas of California and the west coast over the years.

What I can't grasp is the MAGA/Twitter conspiracy theories on why the US Government would try to make a hurricane stronger?

There have been efforts over the years globally to figure out scientifically how to cloud seed in drought situations.
I don’t believe for a second in this “geoengineered” BS. Who knows who started it. But it takes on a life of its own and it’s fed by - surprise - social media.

 

[ISUBryce]

the lengths people will go to avoid that it’s probably warming temps is pretty intense

 

[Titanhawk2]

2023 Atlantic hurricane season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look at annual hurricane tracks (I only looked at a couple of years). Helene didn't move like they normally do coming out of the gulf. They usually sweep up and to the east. Even when they hit an Alabama or Georgia, it's then the Carolina coast and mid-Atlantic coasts that are on the watch for it tracking.

Helene not only went north, it started going west, meaning a lot of rain in a limited area, before it moved east. It wasn't worse or stronger than any others. Just a lot of rain in places that have a lot of valleys (not flat like Florida) that don't usually have a storm that big park on top of them

 

[mnole03]

 

[noStemsnoSTICKS]

I'm tardy for the party on this post, but Jesus Christ. F'cking morons.

Conspiracy theories now about the dems controlling the weather???

If that were the case, please explain why is Mira Lago still standing?

 

[BelemNole]

I'm guessing that the limit of OPs education is sleeping thru shop class. But hey, with the internet at his fingers he too can pretend to understand complex science with a few clicks.

Have people tried seeding clouds for most of a century? Yes. Has it been very effective? Nope.
Are there 'cannons' that people use to try to stop hail. Yup. Is there ANY evidence that they are effective? Nope.
Do either of these things give credence to the idea that people are creating/moving hurricanes? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL no. Only a moron would think that.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

i wonder what time Hawk 82's shift ends today.