WE FIRED ZELESKY FOR LESS....

[pablow]

What went right: 3 finalist and 3 other all americans. The other 4 weights were never a threat to AA.

We are returning all 3 finalists, and barring injury, we are going to be gaining a lot more points from 3 of the 4 missed weights (Kem, AM, and Stoll). We are going to lose quite a bit of points from 197 but some of that blow will be softened from 141 (Carton). Save the pitchforks for next year if we miss.

Here is where we CAN NOT miss is at the trials. It is a must that Ramos wins that spot and not Nico! If Nico wins, I will all but guarantee that we lose out on Lee. Right now Iowa can lay claim to being the best lightweight room in the country. PSU will be able to take that away if Nico is the representative for the Olympics. Call it crazy if you want.

Nico isn't ranked in the top 12 on USA Wrestlings most recent rankings AND he is not listed as a qualifier on the team trial website.

57 kg/125.5 lbs.
1. Tony Ramos, Iowa City, Iowa (Titan Mercury WC)
2. Joe Colon, Cedar Falls, Iowa (Titan Mercury WC)
3. Angel Escobedo, Ames, Iowa (New York AC)
4. Tyler Graff, New Brunswick, N.J. (New York AC)
5. Zach Sanders, Minneapolis, Minn. (Minnesota Storm)
6. Daniel Dennis, Iowa City, Iowa. (Titan Mercury WC)
7. Coleman Scott, Chapel Hill, N.C. (Sunkist Kids)
8. Ali Naser, Clovis, Calif. (California USA Wrestling)
9. Nathan Tomasello, Parma, Ohio (Titan Mercury WC/Ohio RTC)
10. Obe Blanc, Raleigh, N.C. (Titan Mercury WC)
11. Dan Mitcheff, Cornwall, N.Y. (New York AC)
12. Stevan Micic, Cedar Lake, Ind. (Cliff Keen WC)
​

The team trial qualifiers are:

57kg
Anthony Ramos
Coleman Scott
Tyler Graff
Sam Hazewinkel
Nathan Tomasello
Joe Colon
Angel Escobedo
Daniel Dennis
Alan Waters
Erkin Tadzhimetov​

 

[Urohawk]

I will get killed for this statement but is part of the problem is that Tom and Terry are both at IA? Terry is a great coach, great representative for the program, integral to the HWC, one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, etc. He could and probably should be a head coach at his own program. The question is does what he bring to the table too similar to Tom. It helps our light weights but he has the same background, style, etc. Would it be better to have more diversity in assistant coaches.

 

[JohnBasedow]

Nico isn't ranked in the top 12 on USA Wrestlings most recent rankings AND he is not listed as a qualifier on the team trial website.

57 kg/125.5 lbs.
1. Tony Ramos, Iowa City, Iowa (Titan Mercury WC)
2. Joe Colon, Cedar Falls, Iowa (Titan Mercury WC)
3. Angel Escobedo, Ames, Iowa (New York AC)
4. Tyler Graff, New Brunswick, N.J. (New York AC)
5. Zach Sanders, Minneapolis, Minn. (Minnesota Storm)
6. Daniel Dennis, Iowa City, Iowa. (Titan Mercury WC)
7. Coleman Scott, Chapel Hill, N.C. (Sunkist Kids)
8. Ali Naser, Clovis, Calif. (California USA Wrestling)
9. Nathan Tomasello, Parma, Ohio (Titan Mercury WC/Ohio RTC)
10. Obe Blanc, Raleigh, N.C. (Titan Mercury WC)
11. Dan Mitcheff, Cornwall, N.Y. (New York AC)
12. Stevan Micic, Cedar Lake, Ind. (Cliff Keen WC)
​

The team trial qualifiers are:

57kg
Anthony Ramos
Coleman Scott
Tyler Graff
Sam Hazewinkel
Nathan Tomasello
Joe Colon
Angel Escobedo
Daniel Dennis
Alan Waters
Erkin Tadzhimetov​

He qualified with his NCAA title.

 

[pablow]

He qualified with his NCAA title.

I forgot that. I still don't think Nico is a serious threat to make the team. Ramos will be challenged by Graff, Dennis, and Scott.

 

[pablow]

I would caution those folks who are counting our chickens for next year. I can see Gilman or Clark or neither or both winning it, and if they do, mainly on guts. Sorenson (super consistent), Brooks (inconsistent) and Meyer (inconsistent) have not shown me a reason to expect a better outcome for them next year. Stoll could AA or not. Kemmerer could AA. Nobody at 141 has looked good enough in varsity matches for me to expect AA, let alone qualifier. 197 is a question mark 165 is a question mark. I don't see where all the extra team points are going to come from
We are significantly behind PSU, OSU and probably OKSt in the studs race.

Thanks - we needed that post. Probable the biggest issue facing the Iowa wrestling community today is overconfidence.

 

[pumpdog20]

Nico isn't ranked in the top 12 on USA Wrestlings most recent rankings AND he is not listed as a qualifier on the team trial website.

57 kg/125.5 lbs.
1. Tony Ramos, Iowa City, Iowa (Titan Mercury WC)
2. Joe Colon, Cedar Falls, Iowa (Titan Mercury WC)
3. Angel Escobedo, Ames, Iowa (New York AC)
4. Tyler Graff, New Brunswick, N.J. (New York AC)
5. Zach Sanders, Minneapolis, Minn. (Minnesota Storm)
6. Daniel Dennis, Iowa City, Iowa. (Titan Mercury WC)
7. Coleman Scott, Chapel Hill, N.C. (Sunkist Kids)
8. Ali Naser, Clovis, Calif. (California USA Wrestling)
9. Nathan Tomasello, Parma, Ohio (Titan Mercury WC/Ohio RTC)
10. Obe Blanc, Raleigh, N.C. (Titan Mercury WC)
11. Dan Mitcheff, Cornwall, N.Y. (New York AC)
12. Stevan Micic, Cedar Lake, Ind. (Cliff Keen WC)
​

The team trial qualifiers are:

57kg
Anthony Ramos
Coleman Scott
Tyler Graff
Sam Hazewinkel
Nathan Tomasello
Joe Colon
Angel Escobedo
Daniel Dennis
Alan Waters
Erkin Tadzhimetov​

I'd say Nico is more than a threat than you're giving him credit for:

2014 U.S. World Team Trials - FS (05/29 - 06/01/2014)
Saturday Challenge - Mens FS 57 (2nd)
Champ. Round 1: Nico Megaludis (NLWC) over Zach Sanders (MN Storm) (Dec 4-3)
Quarterfinal: Nico Megaludis (NLWC) over Nick Simmons (Sunkist Kids) (Dec 2-1)
Semifinal: Nico Megaludis (NLWC) over Brandon Precin (NYAC) (Dec 4-2)
1st Place Match: Tony Ramos (TMWC) over Nico Megaludis (NLWC) (Dec 1-0)

 

[pablow]

I'd say Nico is more than a threat than you're giving him credit for:

2014 U.S. World Team Trials - FS (05/29 - 06/01/2014)
Saturday Challenge - Mens FS 57 (2nd)
Champ. Round 1: Nico Megaludis (NLWC) over Zach Sanders (MN Storm) (Dec 4-3)
Quarterfinal: Nico Megaludis (NLWC) over Nick Simmons (Sunkist Kids) (Dec 2-1)
Semifinal: Nico Megaludis (NLWC) over Brandon Precin (NYAC) (Dec 4-2)
1st Place Match: Tony Ramos (TMWC) over Nico Megaludis (NLWC) (Dec 1-0)

With Graff, Coleman Scott, and Dennis moving down, Nico not much of a threat. I'd be glad to wager if you still disagree - with $$$ to GG.

 

[butchinmi]

I've posted all year, not a Johnny come lately, but also don't claim to know all by any means. I preface that because I have a question and I don't want it taken as a troll job. We obviously have struggled in the top position. Better this year than last but everyone came out with tilts and suicide tilts to start the year. Obviously it was a point of emphasis. We seem to run halfs (haven't seen one work except against DIII competition) wings (which all get stopped) or spiral rides (stalling). Seems the whole Cornel team can leg ride effectively, Edinboro does a good job, etc. Also, we tend to shoot a ton of low singles, pull it up and struggle to finish. Other teams (PSU for obvious example) seem to have offensive moves that are explosive and finish in one continuous move. Ankle picks, etc. Lastly, scrambling ability. Enough said.

All that to get to my questions:

1). What makes us better in the top position?

A) Better athletes with good top skills (Meija)
B) specialist coach that can teach that (Dake/Perry/Port type)
C) other?

2) Nuetral offense?
Same as above with different coach options

3) Scrambling

I don't know enough if Cornell or Edinboro recruit all the same skilled type guys, but I did watch Gabe Dean in HS. He was not a rider the way he is now. Complete new addition to his arsenal. If he comes to Iowa does he gain that or break down and try to tilt and run and wing?

Thoughts?

 

[pumpdog20]

With Graff, Coleman Scott, and Dennis moving down, Nico not much of a threat. I'd be glad to wager if you still disagree - with $$$ to GG.

I disagree, but I'm not going to wager.

 

[pablow]

I disagree, but I'm not going to wager.

That's cool. You can come back and make fun of me if Nico rolls at the trials.

 

[pumpdog20]

That's cool. You can come back and make fun of me if Nico rolls at the trials.

Nope, I think both our opinions were based on facts. Yours with rankings and mine with past performance. Let's just hope Dennis and Ramos go 1 and 2 in some order to make a strong case for Lee (if it's needed).

 

[Monzon]

interesting....and it kinda falls in line with what I heard Brands say earlier this year in regards to Rutt joining the program...Brands said that he came in with ideas and programs and (paraphrasing) said that they had to sit Rutt down and tell him how things will be ran and how they want everything done from a strength and endurance perspective....it was at that time, the first time ever....that I began to question whether Brands could actually manage this team to success......I think both Brands brothers have grown stagnant and maybe set in their ways...because that's what has worked for them in the past....and now programs are passing them by and we get phrases like "yeah, it could be considered a train wreck".....I actually appreciate his candor...and he's right it was a trainwreck....starting last night after Burak lost....the hawks won only more one match from then on and it was Burak this morning...otherwise everything was a loss....guys getting turned, running outta gas and just plain out matched.

this is our new reality.

Sadly, I thought the same with the Rutt comment.

The world of strength and conditioning has evolved tremendously in the last 20 years, from an understanding of the mechanisms in play from a sports performance standpoint. What to lift, how many sets and reps, recovery, nutrition... all of these have known optimization depending upon the goal. What worked in a basement in Spencer during the 80's for n=2 does not create statistical significance, given the other factors in play.

 

[texhawkeye]

I will get killed for this statement but is part of the problem is that Tom and Terry are both at IA? Terry is a great coach, great representative for the program, integral to the HWC, one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, etc. He could and probably should be a head coach at his own program. The question is does what he bring to the table too similar to Tom. It helps our light weights but he has the same background, style, etc. Would it be better to have more diversity in assistant coaches.

Bring in Burroughs to replace Terry Brands the second after he wins the gold medal in Rio. The future chance to head coach the Hawks is a far bigger carrot than head coach of the Cornholers.

 

[wahlberg]

Sadly, I thought the same with the Rutt comment.

The world of strength and conditioning has evolved tremendously in the last 20 years, from an understanding of the mechanisms in play from a sports performance standpoint. What to lift, how many sets and reps, recovery, nutrition... all of these have known optimization depending upon the goal. What worked in a basement in Spencer during the 80's for n=2 does not create statistical significance, given the other factors in play.

Sheldon, not Spencer But, great post.

For all the folks claiming it is trolling or negativity to have a discussion about the possibility that it is time to replace TnT, I just have to say that we might have different opinions of what the standard is around here in terms of results. NOT that I deem us fans' opinions as a determining factor, but that our AD and co. should not let the standards of the program fall just because the money is coming in.

You coach Alabama Tide in football, you're expected to win championships. You don't, you're gone. You coach Iowa wrestling, guess what? Same thing! At least it should be IMO... idc how good PSU has become under Cael or how parity may or may not have grown in the sport or whether or not TnT are better than Zalesky. Sacrificing the standard of this storied program after 6 years of not truly even sniffing an NCAA title is grounds for this conversation to be wholly relevant.

Next, this ought not be put on other assistants or the wrestlers. We have tried new assistants with no change in results and our assistant coaches (outside of Terry) are not given license to contribute as they see fit, but are instead expected to merely be extensions of TnT and practice partners for the guys. And, we have fine recruiting classes and are seeing wrestlers who were offensive as can be in high school turned into one-dimensional and cautious under the TnT regime. There are exceptions of course, but this is a troubling pattern.

Now, in terms of who could replace TnT, there are plenty of great possibilities out there. However, with the way some of you view it as off-limits to question the Godly supremacy of TnT, why would anyone specify a name? You'll just tear it to shreds and rant and rave that that would be disastrous to the program.

 

[thom67]

Tom and Twrry are not going anywhere. I understand that they just signed contract extension for 3 more years. What we need is a David Taylor or Dake in the room to teach our wrestlers,how to,shoot. In our last 6 matches(all medal,rounds) on Saturday, we had ZERO takedowns. It is hard to get a takedown when you don't shoot. All we seem to do is pull on the head and push the entire match.

 

[wahlberg]

TnT likely aren't going anywhere - you're right about that. But, the discussion is about whether or not we think they ought to be replaced - not on the likelihood it will actually happen.

 

[Multi-Hawk]

Tom and Twrry are not going anywhere. I understand that they just signed contract extension for 3 more years. What we need is a David Taylor or Dake in the room to teach our wrestlers,how to,shoot. In our last 6 matches(all medal,rounds) on Saturday, we had ZERO takedowns. It is hard to get a takedown when you don't shoot. All we seem to do is pull on the head and push the entire match.

We absolutely need a coach who can not only diversity our takedown arsenal, but how to turn. There is not one coach on our staff who was good at turning.

 

[anon_01irjibf16qqj]

Sheldon, not Spencer But, great post.

For all the folks claiming it is trolling or negativity to have a discussion about the possibility that it is time to replace TnT, I just have to say that we might have different opinions of what the standard is around here in terms of results. NOT that I deem us fans' opinions as a determining factor, but that our AD and co. should not let the standards of the program fall just because the money is coming in.

You coach Alabama Tide in football, you're expected to win championships. You don't, you're gone. You coach Iowa wrestling, guess what? Same thing! At least it should be IMO... idc how good PSU has become under Cael or how parity may or may not have grown in the sport or whether or not TnT are better than Zalesky. Sacrificing the standard of this storied program after 6 years of not truly even sniffing an NCAA title is grounds for this conversation to be wholly relevant.

Next, this ought not be put on other assistants or the wrestlers. We have tried new assistants with no change in results and our assistant coaches (outside of Terry) are not given license to contribute as they see fit, but are instead expected to merely be extensions of TnT and practice partners for the guys. And, we have fine recruiting classes and are seeing wrestlers who were offensive as can be in high school turned into one-dimensional and cautious under the TnT regime. There are exceptions of course, but this is a troubling pattern.

Now, in terms of who could replace TnT, there are plenty of great possibilities out there. However, with the way some of you view it as off-limits to question the Godly supremacy of TnT, why would anyone specify a name? You'll just tear it to shreds and rant and rave that that would be disastrous to the program.

So just like everyone else who says to replace Brands, you don't actually have any names.

 

[wahlberg]

So just like everyone else who says to replace Brands, you don't actually have any names.

Correct that I didn't name names in my post. And, if you cared to read it carefully, I explained why in the last couple sentences of my post. And, I don't say to replace Brands. I say it shouldn't be out of the question, as if TnT are irreplacable and above questioning. With 6 straight years of not sniffing a national titile, the discussion is more than warranted.

 

[wahlberg]

So just like everyone else who says to replace Brands, you don't actually have any names.

If you want another name to try and blast to shreds, how about Zeke Jones? Might be strategically advantageous, as he might bring some of his outstanding recruits from ASU with him...?

 

[whejoe]

Tom Minkel is available...................

 

[nyc10007]

As a long time wrestling fan, I am baffled by how bad Tom Brands has allowed our wrestling team to become.

In fairness, I don't think Brands has allowed anything.

There's still no better coach, as his peers will tell you, but I think the ground has shifted under him, through no fault of his own, and he's relatively helpless.

Big factors are Cael and Tom Ryan putting fences up around PA and Ohio and keeping the best in-state recruits home.

Also , there are all these Gable disciples everywhere throughout the country spreading the "Gable Gospel" as it were. When Tom Ryan left Long Island, New York to go to Iowa, he said it was because that was the only way to learn at the feet of Gable, who was the one-and-only. Now you can stay closer to home and get coached up by Z., Barry Davis, Kevin Dresser, Greg Randall, Duane Goldman, J. Rob., and the list goes on, all of whom are just as legitimate heirs to the Gable tradition as the Brands.

Finally, I think Brands is limited by demographics. While he's got his pick of Iowa wrestlers, and altho' Iowa youth wrestling is at a very, very high level, there's a numerical disadvantage when you talk about the populous Northeastern states, like PA, NJ and NY, which produced a large number of the All-Americans this year.

 

[JohnBasedow]

interesting....and it kinda falls in line with what I heard Brands say earlier this year in regards to Rutt joining the program...Brands said that he came in with ideas and programs and (paraphrasing) said that they had to sit Rutt down and tell him how things will be ran and how they want everything done from a strength and endurance perspective....it was at that time, the first time ever....that I began to question whether Brands could actually manage this team to success......I think both Brands brothers have grown stagnant and maybe set in their ways...because that's what has worked for them in the past....and now programs are passing them by and we get phrases like "yeah, it could be considered a train wreck".....I actually appreciate his candor...and he's right it was a trainwreck....starting last night after Burak lost....the hawks won only more one match from then on and it was Burak this morning...otherwise everything was a loss....guys getting turned, running outta gas and just plain out matched.

this is our new reality.

If true, this is quite concerning to me. If you hire a S&C professional, let him do his job.

 

[FanOHawk]

Iowa needs better recruits.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Tom Minkel is available...................

LOL now whejoe you have won the internet post of the week lol .

 

[whejoe]

Sadly, I thought the same with the Rutt comment.

The world of strength and conditioning has evolved tremendously in the last 20 years, from an understanding of the mechanisms in play from a sports performance standpoint. What to lift, how many sets and reps, recovery, nutrition... all of these have known optimization depending upon the goal. What worked in a basement in Spencer during the 80's for n=2 does not create statistical significance, given the other factors in play.

You would think that would have been discussed during the interview process about how the s&c would be done, not after he was hired.

 

[HoundedHawk]

I heard Brands say earlier this year in regards to Rutt joining the program...Brands said that he came in with ideas and programs and (paraphrasing) said that they had to sit Rutt down and tell him how things will be ran and how they want everything done from a strength and endurance perspective....it was at that time, the first time ever....that I began to question whether Brands could actually manage this team to success....

I thought the same thing.

I have a horrible suspicion the Brands will just try harder instead of smarter. It's in their nature.

 

[bears2727]

Cornells finished top 5 for 6 of the last 8 years.

I would respectfully suggest that parity is an illusion. The haves have changed somewhat, but you really only have about 3 teams vying for a title each year and only another 3 vying for the remainder of the top 5. In the past, it was IA, ISU, OSU, MN and an occasional other filling out the top 5. Now it is IA, PSU, OSU, tOSU, and an occasional other filling out the top 5. In five years, a couple in the top 5 may be switched out in favor of a rising school, such as ASU and VT.

 

[final drive]

I'd like to see David Taylor replace Morningstall,ops,I mean Morningstar.

 

[Annieat285]

You guys should push for Popolizio. He abandoned Binghamton, why wouldn't he do the same to NcSt? Especially now that Gwiz is gone. He can recruit, coach the good wrestlers and maximize the talents of the lesser ones. He acts more respectfully then TNT on the mat and Kevin Dresser off. He is building something special down in North Carolina and frankly, Iowa could use a little of whatever he's working with.

 

[whejoe]

You guys should push for Popolizio. He abandoned Binghamton, why wouldn't he do the same to NcSt? Especially now that Gwiz is gone. He can recruit, coach the good wrestlers and maximize the talents of the lesser ones. He acts more respectfully then TNT on the mat and Kevin Dresser off. He is building something special down in North Carolina and frankly, Iowa could use a little of whatever he's working with.

NCst crapped the bed this weekend.....

 

[wahlberg]

You guys should push for Popolizio. He abandoned Binghamton, why wouldn't he do the same to NcSt? Especially now that Gwiz is gone. He can recruit, coach the good wrestlers and maximize the talents of the lesser ones. He acts more respectfully then TNT on the mat and Kevin Dresser off. He is building something special down in North Carolina and frankly, Iowa could use a little of whatever he's working with.

Despite a fairly dissappointing performance for them at NCAAs this year, he isn't a bad option IMO

 

[Pennstate1985]

Cornells finished top 5 for 6 of the last 8 years.

that's why I included the word "other". Personally I don't think Cornell will ever be perennial top 3 power given their situation within the Ivy League. Cornell finished a distant 7th this year with only 3 AA's. Granted two took 1st, but 3 AA's isn't going to get it done. Who will replace them after next year?

 

[bawlmerhawk]

I haven't posted in a year, maybe, but finally somebody says it: Brands needs to go. He recruits well, we win dual meets, but the NCAAs are everything. We have underperformed for the last, what, five seasons? More often than not, our guys don't wrestle to seed. Each year, I come away wondering what is wrong with our program. This is Iowa!!

 

[Annieat285]

Yeah, ncst didn't have the best tournament, but they are working with a whole lot less then you guys from a resources, funding and talent point of view. From Penn State's standpoint right now there's no diifference between 5th place and whatever ncst got. You all fell short. A good way to keep falling short is to keep doing the same thing and expecting the results to change.

 

[Monzon]

You would think that would have been discussed during the interview process about how the s&c would be done, not after he was hired.

From what I recall, a number of the candidates gave their opinion about how to become stronger and Brands disagreed with those opinions. Rutt's thoughts mostly aligned with Brands' as far as being strong for wrestling, which was what rose alarms in my head. I also was a bit concerned when Telford was cheered about "170 lb dumbbells" when holding someone's ankle (McMullan at B10?), as if a 170 dumbbell row is a major feat for a 22 year-old 265 lb physical specimen that should be able to deadlift 700+.

 

[SPOONER]

I haven't posted in a year, maybe, but finally somebody says it: Brands needs to go. He recruits well, we win dual meets, but the NCAAs are everything. We have underperformed for the last, what, five seasons? More often than not, our guys don't wrestle to seed. Each year, I come away wondering what is wrong with our program. This is Iowa!!

For the record, we qualified 9. 8 were seeded. The only two who didn't wrestle to seed were Stoll who got hurt and Brooks who was over seeded but still a disappointment. The other 6 guys were at or above seed.

 

[butchinmi]

that's why I included the word "other". Personally I don't think Cornell will ever be perennial top 3 power given their situation within the Ivy League. Cornell finished a distant 7th this year with only 3 AA's. Granted two took 1st, but 3 AA's isn't going to get it done. Who will replace them after next year?

Which would you rather have - 2 champs and 7th or no champs and 5th? Honestly, I'd love to have celebrated 2 wins in the finals. Least would have 2 golds heading to IC instead of none and no team trophy. Preferably 25 & 33 to keep claim on the place where the best little guys go.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Which would you rather have - 2 champs and 7th or no champs and 5th? Honestly, I'd love to have celebrated 2 wins in the finals. Least would have 2 golds heading to IC instead of none and no team trophy. Preferably 25 & 33 to keep claim on the place where the best little guys go.

Okay, you're changing the goal posts a little here. I think with 2 champs and one other AA that Cornell is falling away from the pack over time. Just my opinion.

As for your question and moving a program forward, I can see the merits of selling recruits that if they come here, we can make you a champ, and I can also see having five AA's and selling the pitch that we can get you on the podium. Don't know which is better if you're trying to move the program ahead.

From a fan perspective, I'd take champs all day every day.

 

[Monzon]

I thought the same thing.

I have a horrible suspicion the Brands will just try harder instead of smarter. It's in their nature.

Agreed. And for the record, I want both Brands to stay. Just want some damned adaptability.