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What true method is BF talking about?

82-43 is pretty good, it could have been better. We could have went undefeated, we could have won a national championship.

what a crock.
You dont believe that, really, the hawks were undefeated in 2015 , why not 2021 with a colossal defense, special teams, and if they had just a top 75 offense.

Instead of a top 16 winning record how about a top 10 record.

We could be talking Blue Bloods, man
 
You dont believe that, really, the hawks were undefeated in 2015 , why not 2021 with a colossal defense, special teams, and if they had just a top 75 offense.

Instead of a top 16 winning record how about a top 10 record.

We could be talking Blue Bloods, man
Unfortunately though we can't change our geography and population. A couple of strikes against us right out of the gate, and tv tends to portray us like we are all farmers gettin dirty every day. Back in the day with lesser tv coverage those teams that made it on tv were elevated. In today's world darn near every game is on some channel. Maybe NIL helps Iowa or stuff just stays the same. If it becomes an NFL type model, then a Green Bay is popular although a small geo area population. NCAA has lots more teams than NFL though.
 
But look at what was been done at WI. Before Barry got there, WI was terrible. There's no reason why Iowa cannot have the same success as WI. KF and BF have peaked and that's probably the real problem.
That is a false dichotomy. Wisconsin has twice the population. Milwaukee has 1.6 million people in the metro area, Madison has half a million. UW is also closer to Chicago. Don't try to tell me those are equivalent to Iowa's situation.
 
Ok .... so what you're saying is that Brian and Kirk are doing the very best that can be done at Iowa.

Asking me to give $$ to NIL is another Red Herring.

So, it isn't that Iowa has a winning track record, it's that Iowa is basically a conference losing team (can't really win).

This is also ALL a Red Herring. No coach, worth their salt, ever thinks nothing needs to be changed when they are at the bottom of the entire NCAA in offense the last few years.

If you want to wax poetic on the value and ceiling of the Iowa program, go ahead.

But look at what was been done at WI. Before Barry got there, WI was terrible. There's no reason why Iowa cannot have the same success as WI. KF and BF have peaked and that's probably the real problem.
Your canned answers go to show you have little thought to how college football works.
Brian and Kirk are doing okay given demographics and the population of Iowa with three Universities in this State.
NIL is far from a red herring in today's D-1 football.
Cade came to Iowa to be in Brian's system and got some of that NIL money. Tight ends and receivers transferring to Iowa from Blue blood programs means they view Brian different than you and the other whiners.
No coach ever...blah,blah, blah, see the paragraph above and watch for the tweeks to the offense this season do to having some new talent to work with. Tweeks to a system yes, but wholesale changes? Laughable.
Wax poetic... Every program has a ceiling they try to get above every so often. Iowa is an 8-4 program thanks to Hayden and Kirk has brought it back to those numbers and above. Iowa very seldom falls below and is able to get back to that level by making some minor changes to the system in place when necessary. They are not having to struggle for long periods to get back to 9 or 10 wins every few years. They do go over that on occasion and that is something one heck of a lot of programs never see, nor can they maintain that. Period.
Wisconsin peaked or they wouldn't be throwing it all out the door. Isn't that what you are really saying? Barry built Wisconsin with running backs and defense when that was still the solution to win at Wisconsin. Throw in a Russell Wilson transfer for a great season and all looks good. The run of tremendous backs was stellar and most teams envied that. Wisconsin could cover up some below average QB play with great running backs and huge lines who could hold blocks (literally) to get those backs one on one. That worked for Wisconsin with the personnel they were able to recruit. Wisconsin also had a great run defensive wise with their system. Remember that there is a little old mom and pop plumbing company in Wisconsin that can be the bankroll foundation for NIL as they are the only program in a state much bigger than Iowa.
 
That is a false dichotomy. Wisconsin has twice the population. Milwaukee has 1.6 million people in the metro area, Madison has half a million. UW is also closer to Chicago. Don't try to tell me those are equivalent to Iowa's situation.
Agree and they only have 1 power 5 program to compete with for recruits in their state.
 
I riddle the hawks could have and should have won a title in 2009, 2015, and 2021. An OT loss at OSU away from a title, a crazy long drive by MSU away from a title, and not having just and average offense away from a title in 2021. too many key injuries in 2010.

I think most fans could not argue with this post. In their heart of hearts they know Iowa is that close.

And the goal is to win games and championships, once in awhile.
Could have. That same OT loss with a backup QB for Iowa in what I have said was the loudest I have heard that stadium ever. I was there and it was deafening.
I was also there for the MSU game and watched a defense without the depth Iowa has now tongues dragging on the turf trying to will themselves to get a stop.
Should have? I don't think so with a backup QB and a worn out defense. Great games with stellar coaching. People still say Kirk should have gone for the win in the tOSU game and it makes me laugh. It was so loud in that stadium the players were having a hard time with signals. Backup QB in that environment was tough. Not a bad Ohio State team either.
 
That is a false dichotomy. Wisconsin has twice the population. Milwaukee has 1.6 million people in the metro area, Madison has half a million. UW is also closer to Chicago. Don't try to tell me those are equivalent to Iowa's situation.
Wisconsin does have some advantages, though those advantages didn't seem to help them pre-Alvarez.

It's not 1975, 80 miles (the difference in distance to Chicago from IC vs Madison) is nothing. Population alone doesn't guarantee you good football players. Name a perennial top football program from the East Coast megalopolis of roughly 50 million people. Closest thing would be Penn State which is 4 hours from New York through the Appalachians.

If you can build a powerhouse program in Fargo, North Dakota or Boise, Idaho... you can do it anywhere providing you have the money, fan support, etc and the right coach. All the stuff Hayden recognized Iowa did have...when he took the job. Iowa still has it, perhaps more than ever with the B1G TV $$ and exposure.
 
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Wisconsin does have some advantages, though those advantages didn't seem to help them pre-Alvarez.

It's not 1975, 80 miles (the difference in distance to Chicago from IC vs Madison) is nothing. Population alone doesn't guarantee you good football players. Name a perennial top football program from the East Coast megalopolis of roughly 50 million people. Closest thing would be Penn State which is 4 hours from New York through the Appalachians.

If you can build a powerhouse program in Fargo, North Dakota or Boise, Idaho... you can do it anywhere providing you have the money, fan support, etc and the right coach. All the stuff Hayden recognized Iowa did have...when he took the job. Iowa still has it, perhaps more than ever.
Barry was the coach that knew how to tap the resources. Population does play a huge difference when you are building your program. Barry tapped the farm kids from Wisconsin to build those massive offensive lines and they also developed relationships across the whole state with high schools getting really good athletes for linebacker and d- line positions. If you don't think Barry built Wisconsin football by being the only D1 school in the state and his in state relationships you are sadly mistaken.
Your other points don't make relevant sense as I couldn't tell you a thing about east coast high school football except maybe Jersey. Wisconsin high school football is a big deal. Fargo isn't a D-1 powerhouse and Boise is not a powerhouse. The situation with the Bison is unique in the simple fact they also tapped some overlooked areas that most major college programs are not going to spend resources on. Once the Bison built that program they have kids with a chip seeking them out. The program will continue to get kids at that level who could be great backups and maybe some starters on D-1 teams.
 
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That is a false dichotomy. Wisconsin has twice the population. Milwaukee has 1.6 million people in the metro area, Madison has half a million. UW is also closer to Chicago. Don't try to tell me those are equivalent to Iowa's situation.
Exactly. they know this , all the talk of undefeated national championships is just a childish tactic because they have an agenda. they can’t criticize KF based on his record because he’s 82-43 over the past ten years and he has the 16th winningest program in the country. for a rural state of 3 million, that’s really really good.
 
Your canned answers go to show you have little thought to how college football works.
Brian and Kirk are doing okay given demographics and the population of Iowa with three Universities in this State.
NIL is far from a red herring in today's D-1 football.
Cade came to Iowa to be in Brian's system and got some of that NIL money. Tight ends and receivers transferring to Iowa from Blue blood programs means they view Brian different than you and the other whiners.
No coach ever...blah,blah, blah, see the paragraph above and watch for the tweeks to the offense this season do to having some new talent to work with. Tweeks to a system yes, but wholesale changes? Laughable.
Wax poetic... Every program has a ceiling they try to get above every so often. Iowa is an 8-4 program thanks to Hayden and Kirk has brought it back to those numbers and above. Iowa very seldom falls below and is able to get back to that level by making some minor changes to the system in place when necessary. They are not having to struggle for long periods to get back to 9 or 10 wins every few years. They do go over that on occasion and that is something one heck of a lot of programs never see, nor can they maintain that. Period.
Wisconsin peaked or they wouldn't be throwing it all out the door. Isn't that what you are really saying? Barry built Wisconsin with running backs and defense when that was still the solution to win at Wisconsin. Throw in a Russell Wilson transfer for a great season and all looks good. The run of tremendous backs was stellar and most teams envied that. Wisconsin could cover up some below average QB play with great running backs and huge lines who could hold blocks (literally) to get those backs one on one. That worked for Wisconsin with the personnel they were able to recruit. Wisconsin also had a great run defensive wise with their system. Remember that there is a little old mom and pop plumbing company in Wisconsin that can be the bankroll foundation for NIL as they are the only program in a state much bigger than Iowa.

Does Brian write you checks or does he pay you in cash to write his apologetics?

Boiling the points in your post ... the claim you making is this: BF and KF are doing just fine ... so every critic needs to shut it and let them continue to never win a B1G championship or a meaningful bowl game.

We don't need a history lesson on WI football. We all know WHAT happened and the point that is missing is that BARRY helped MAKE all of that happen. Barry won 3 Rose Bowls.

Under KF, Iowa won tied for two B1G championships 17 and 21 years ago, beat LSU in the C1 bowl 18 years ago, and won an Orange Bowl 14 years ago.

We should agree to disagree. You think BF and KF are running the program well ... given the circumstances ... I disagree.
 
Barry was the coach that knew how to tap the resources. Population does play a huge difference when you are building your program. Barry tapped the farm kids from Wisconsin to build those massive offensive lines and they also developed relationships across the whole state with high schools getting really good athletes for linebacker and d- line positions. If you don't think Barry built Wisconsin football by being the only D1 school in the state and his in state relationships you are sadly mistaken.
Your other points don't make relevant sense as I couldn't tell you a thing about east coast high school football except maybe Jersey. Wisconsin high school football is a big deal. Fargo isn't a D-1 powerhouse and Boise is not a powerhouse. The situation with the Bison is unique in the simple fact they also tapped some overlooked areas that most major college programs are not going to spend resources on. Once the Bison built that program they have kids with a chip seeking them out. The program will continue to get kids at that level who could be great backups and maybe some starters on D-1 teams.
Agreed, Barry knew what he was doing and building up the surrounding high school programs was part of it.

I hear ya, but I'd suggest the highlighted portion of your second paragraph does validate my other points. If you build it the right way, they will come...even to Fargo, North Dakota. NDSU may not be D-1 but they are a dominant powerhouse in a pretty desolate place. That have an NFL draft pick and UDFAs regularly (from an FCS program).

Boise State has won 10+ games 18 times in the last 25 years finishing in the FBS Top 25 14 of those years including 4 times in the Top 10 (only 1 less than Iowa over the same period). They're not Ohio State or Alabama but they did that in the middle of nowhere population-wise.

It's harder some places than others, no doubt. But it's not impossible. We saw first hand how a change in attitude and approach combined with the right coach can turn a program around.
 
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Does Brian write you checks or does he pay you in cash to write his apologetics?

Boiling the points in your post ... the claim you making is this: BF and KF are doing just fine ... so every critic needs to shut it and let them continue to never win a B1G championship or a meaningful bowl game.

We don't need a history lesson on WI football. We all know WHAT happened and the point that is missing is that BARRY helped MAKE all of that happen. Barry won 3 Rose Bowls.

Under KF, Iowa won tied for two B1G championships 17 and 21 years ago, beat LSU in the C1 bowl 18 years ago, and won an Orange Bowl 14 years ago.

We should agree to disagree. You think BF and KF are running the program well ... given the circumstances ... I disagree.
Some fans know how hard it is to win at Iowa. I look back at our HOF coach Fry and he never won a major bowl 0-3 in the Rose Bowl and all losses were by double digits. Then after Fry had a great run he had a losing season in 1989 and three non-winning seasons in 1992,1993, and 1994. His record over that three year period was 16-18-1. Our last non-winning season was over a decade ago under KF.

When USC and UCLA join the conference winning the championship will become more difficult just like it was when PSU and Neb joined.
 
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Agreed, Barry knew what he was doing and building up the surrounding high school programs was part of it.

I hear ya, but I'd suggest the highlighted portion of your second paragraph does validate my other points. If you build it the right way, they will come...even to Fargo, North Dakota. NDSU may not be D-1 but they are a dominant powerhouse in a pretty desolate place. That have an NFL draft pick and UDFAs regularly (from an FCS program).

Boise State has won 10+ games 18 times in the last 25 years finishing in the FBS Top 25 14 of those years including 4 times in the Top 10 (only 1 less than Iowa over the same period). They're not Ohio State or Alabama but they did that in the middle of nowhere population-wise.

It's harder some places than others, no doubt. But it's not impossible. We saw first hand how a change in attitude and approach combined with the right coach can turn a program around.
I also agree with you with the caveat that Iowa doesn't get the recruits with the chips on their shoulders anymore. Iowa is trying to chase higher level recruits than those that will seek out to play for the Bison. They also have a great fan base somewhat like Iowa and they travel really well.
I get what you are saying about Boise, but look at their conference compared to the Big Ten. Not comparable in the slightest. I would also say they are a world apart system wise and would get destroyed in major conference play.
Iowa's program doesn't need turned around?! Iowa's program just needs more consistent recruiting and that seems to be improving. The portal has helped.
 
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1 BT West Championship. and 4 straight top 25 finishes that was/is the longest stretch in the KF era,
Well I havent said anything about tearing down but I will say that BrianF was not OC in 2009 and 2015 (he had very good results as run game coordinator in 2015) but he was OC in 2021 and his offense was not very good/a major problem.

Maybe the Peter Principle has hit Brian and his level of experience and he should go back to run game coordinator or run game coord/asst OC. Or maybe Oline coach.
you can't even get Brians job was and when, in 2015 Brian was the OL Coach and that years offense produced 5404 total yards the 2nd most under KF the best total came when Banks was the QB and yet most of you assholes couldn't wait to run him off calling GDGD Davis ALL because the BTC or the NC
these were the recruiting class ranking while Kirk was doing a total over haul of his entire staff
20213 53rd
2014 59th
2015 58th

yep some dominating recruiting being done while the staff was being over hauled and you are and never will be,. expecting BT and NC's with barely MAC level talent.

at least Iowa is getting talent that is a step above MAC level talent that is on the level that is on the level of the mid level BT teams

to bad you expect top 5 recruiting class results with MAC recruiting results if you want top 5 finishes go follow Alabama, Georgia, LSU, OSU or Michigan oops scratch Michigan as Jim has his brother as a assistant and last summer he hired his son as a full time coach

talk about the family business.
 
Does Brian write you checks or does he pay you in cash to write his apologetics?

Boiling the points in your post ... the claim you making is this: BF and KF are doing just fine ... so every critic needs to shut it and let them continue to never win a B1G championship or a meaningful bowl game.

We don't need a history lesson on WI football. We all know WHAT happened and the point that is missing is that BARRY helped MAKE all of that happen. Barry won 3 Rose Bowls.

Under KF, Iowa won tied for two B1G championships 17 and 21 years ago, beat LSU in the C1 bowl 18 years ago, and won an Orange Bowl 14 years ago.

We should agree to disagree. You think BF and KF are running the program well ... given the circumstances ... I disagree.
You always reply without answering people's basic questions back at you! What would you change is a question I've asked you?
I'll ignore the stupid remarks you make, but you actually did need a history lesson on Wisconsin football. Do you know how many running back recruits we went head to head with Barry for? Of course he got all of them or most all of them. Do you know how and/or why? Growing up with one of the assistant A.D.s from Wisconsin, I can tell you of some good parties with favors thrown by Wisconsin while Barry claimed innocence. That's not a knock on Wisconsin or Barry, but that sure isn't Kirks style and I am fine with that. Hayden probably taught Barry a thing or two as did another head coach he worked for. Chris Doyle came from the staff at Wisconsin. Barry had an 8 year headstart on Kirk and took advantage of Fry's fall off in recruiting. The fact is Barry had built Wisconsin before Kirk got to Iowa and made it another recruiting area Kirks staff had to work against.
If you want to engage in forums, answer some questions and at least try to be convincing in your argument. Agreeing to disagree is rather pedestrian.
 
You always reply without answering people's basic questions back at you! What would you change is a question I've asked you?
I'll ignore the stupid remarks you make, but you actually did need a history lesson on Wisconsin football. Do you know how many running back recruits we went head to head with Barry for? Of course he got all of them or most all of them. Do you know how and/or why? Growing up with one of the assistant A.D.s from Wisconsin, I can tell you of some good parties with favors thrown by Wisconsin while Barry claimed innocence. That's not a knock on Wisconsin or Barry, but that sure isn't Kirks style and I am fine with that. Hayden probably taught Barry a thing or two as did another head coach he worked for. Chris Doyle came from the staff at Wisconsin. Barry had an 8 year headstart on Kirk and took advantage of Fry's fall off in recruiting. The fact is Barry had built Wisconsin before Kirk got to Iowa and made it another recruiting area Kirks staff had to work against.
If you want to engage in forums, answer some questions and at least try to be convincing in your argument. Agreeing to disagree is rather pedestrian.

You call other people statements 'canned'; call people who disagree 'whiners'; demand other people answer your questions and then get testy when they are not answered; and call other people's ending several threads of back and forth, pedestrian. Give me a break about "I'll ignore your stupid remarks you make". It's called sarcasm.

Above I gave stats and records to indicate that there is reason to question BF's statement that Iowa has a 'winning formula.' I repeated and added to the original post several times. I see no reason to draw a different conclusion.

Also, just because you raise a question doesn't mean others are obligated to answer it. And repeating the question is irrelevant. Plus, the question you are asking isn't an honest inquiry. Are you seriously interested in what I think Iowa football should do to improve? Answer: "No, you're not." No matter what my reply is, you're going to find some way to complain about it. This is a rhetorical tactic to silence the other person.

Section25, you're not interested in argument because you're more interested in defending Ferentz, Inc.

Your replies come across as someone who already 'knows' all the answers because you are an insider and have all the answers.

To repeat: you think BF's remarks are accurate ... Iowa is winning enough to your satisfaction. I, on the other hand, based on the rankings and the performances of Iowa over the last 20 years, see that Iowa's winning formula hasn't actually produced much that has mattered.

But your replies do point to something that is a sad side to the Iowa fan base .... too many Iowa fans are comfortable with Ferentz status-quo.
 
Here are the answers to the magic thinkers who populate the board with hateful and usually silly animosity to KF and the state of the program, notwithstanding we are in the midst of our Iowa's most sustained success since the mid 80s, a streak that began 40 years ago and ended in 1987.

1. Population. Assuming that every state produces the same percentage of outstanding 4 and five star football players, here's where Iowa stands:

State National Rank Population

Pennsylvania 5 12,972,008
Illinois 6 12,582,032
Ohio 7 11,756,058
Michigan 9 10,077,331
New Jersey 11 9,261,699
Indiana 17 6,833,037
Maryland 19 6,164,660
Wisconsin 20 5,892,539
Minnesota 22 5,717,184
Iowa 32 3,200,517
Nebraska 38 1,967,923

Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan and New Jersey all have populations 3 times larger than Iowa. That means they are producing 3 times as many A- to A+ recruits as Iowa. I think we can safely assume that most states top recruits stay home, not always but generally. That means Pennsylvania could evenly divide between PSU and Pitt, which they don't, and each half would still outnumber Iowa by 2:1.

While population is not itself determinative, it is still the most important factor because almost everything stems from population.

2. Money. Again, size matters. Every state other than Nebraska has a much larger tax base than Iowa. That provides the public part of funding superior HS programs and more affluent and opulent university campuses. Population also means there are more donors great and small. That means the larger institutions are always ahead in the facilities race. The Pedo's raised record donations in the year they were outed and punished for the most despicable college sports scandal and cover up in history. There really are that many hardcore Pedo St donors. Does anyone think Iowa would have a record fundraising year if Iowa was implicated in the worst college football scandal ever?

3. Urbanity/mega donors. Every state in the Big Ten has larger urban areas. Urban areas are where the big corporate, and billionaire family donors reside. It's also where the suburbs build football factory schools. Like the DSM suburbs. The rest of the state is afraid to even play against the DSM suburban schools. So imagine many more and much larger such areas, in every other Big Ten state. Those are the people that can collectively create functionally unlimited AD budgets and NIL deals. Even Nebraska has Omaha. Shitty city but larger than DSM and still more money over there, although DSM is gaining fast. Iowa has one actual urban area, DSM & ex/suburbs, two and a half kind of cool but small college towns, and basically a 15 or so factory towns ranging from big ones like CR/Sioux City/Davenport to little BFE's like the land of my birth (Ottumwa). And Barta doesn't seem to make much of an effort to raise the Iowa penetration and TOMA in DSM. The lack of those urban area puts Iowa farther behind in the facilities, recruiting (scouts/analysts) and, of course NIL. Even NW can get into pockets of unfathomable wealth unavailable to Iowa.

4. Lack of BB status. Iowa hasn't been near a true BB since Evy was coaching, as in my entire life and I'm 63. Iowa is nationally perceived as a very good program, almost always ranked or close to it at the end of the year. Pull off some big upsets. But our national image is still less prestigious than those inbreeds from Nebraska. They haven't been a national program in twenty years and not really good for 10--15 years. All they have to offer is the shine on a now pretty aged trophy case yet they still have a national level recruiting reach. For example, it was vs. Bug Eaters for a 4* TE. He picked Nebraska. Every Iowa starting TE, actually going back to the 90s has had an NFL career.

5. Media market. A lot more people are watching/streaming/listening to tOSU, the Pedos, Ann Arbor, Bucky and probably MSU than are watching Iowa. That gives every one of those programs the ability to expand the advantages of 1-4.

6. Market penetration. With the exception of Wisconsin, tOSU, Sparty, the Whore, and the Pedos are national brands. National media showers them with attention thus creating a nearly static small number of special programs whose success is promoted for maximum broadcast value. That creates a cycle of national public awareness (e.g. recruits, their HS coaches, donors, apparel manufacturers and sales) that allows the BB schools to feed themselves ever upward..

Those are immutable factors that highly disadvantage Iowa. Other than drive ISU from the DSM suburbs in recruiting there isn't really much of a way to overcome those disadvantages. As Lenin said quantity has its own quality.

There are some things that we, indeed every school can do or not that shuffles the population stack. Indiana, Minnesota, Maryland, Rutgers don't prioritize football, although they are occasionally good. Illinois is unstable, but the end result is they have usually sucked over the last 50 years. MSU is sometimes very good and sometimes low digit wins. Purdue down to Maryland all trail Iowa.

Bucky shows you can get near the top, but, in the end, they have rarely outperformed tOSU, Pedo St., or Ann Arbor. Even Sparty might have a better record than Bucky over the Ferentz years.

So, why hasn't Iowa had a record more in keeping with it's demo? Why haven't we become an Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Maryland or Rutgers; and all the head coaches that lost their jobs at each during KFs years at Iowa? Or their comps in every other conference. Everyone one of those programs have worse to incomparably worse records than Iowa's during the KF years. For example, NW is 148/143 in the Ferentz years. Pretty stable program during this century, right? KF has 195 wins, I think. During the KF years I'm guessing the only programs with more wins are Nebraska, but their advantage is declining at a pretty quick rate; tOSU; the Whore Ann Arbor, the Pedos, Bucky and Sparty. Purdue, 1 9-win, 1 8-win and two 7-win seasons (separated by several years) between 2008 and now. What's the constant at Iowa that allows us to avoid things like Sparty's 5-7 record last season?

Kirk Ferentz. All of those coaches that have failed to rise above Iowa, and there are now probably a couple dozen or more, were hired with the expectation that they would make that climb. Iowa was one play away from a division title with the worst offense in the country. That doesn't mean a weak program, that means we had a terrible offensive year but still came close and left with a convincing bowl win. I think we're about to see substantial improvement on offense.

What did the coaches do in the off season. Went from an F QB to an A- to A QB; brought in at least one WR (A- to A) better than anyone on the roster last season, and maybe two. I cannot imagine that Parker would not be an upgrade from Plumb and maybe a better guard with Feth. Recover the loss of a great TE by adding another, TEU x 2.

Most coaching hires fail. Most coaches would not see Iowa as a destination, just a step, so even if we could find someone to take Iowa into 3 or 4 consecutive 10 win seasons, would he stay? If not, then back to the luck of the draw on the next, which will probably fail because most coaching hires fail.​
 
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Here are the answers to the magic thinkers who populate the board hateful and usually silly animosity to KF and the state of the program, notwithstanding we are in the midst of our Iowa's most sustained success since the mid 80s, a streak that began 40 years ago and ended in 1987.

1. Population. Assuming that every state produces the same percentage of outstanding 4 and five star football players, here's where Iowa stands:

State National Rank Population

Pennsylvania 5 12,972,008
Illinois 6 12,582,032
Ohio 7 11,756,058
Michigan 9 10,077,331
New Jersey 11 9,261,699
Indiana 17 6,833,037
Maryland 19 6,164,660
Wisconsin 20 5,892,539
Minnesota 22 5,717,184
Iowa 32 3,200,517
Nebraska 38 1,967,923

Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan and New Jersey all have populations 3 times larger than Iowa. That means they are producing 3 times as many A- to A+ recruits as Iowa. I think we can safely assume that most states top recruits stay home, not always but generally. That means Pennsylvania could evenly divide between PSU and Pitt, which they don't, and each half would still outnumber Iowa by 2:1.

While population is not itself determinative, it is still the most important factor because almost everything stems from population.

2. Money. Again, size matters. Every state other than Nebraska has a much larger tax base than Iowa. That provides the public part of funding superior HS programs and more affluent and opulent university campuses. Population also means there are more donors great and small. That means the larger institutions are always ahead in the facilities race. The Pedo's raised record donations in the year they were outed and punished for the most despicable college sports scandal and cover up in history. There really are that many hardcore Pedo St donors. Does anyone think Iowa would have a record fundraising year if Iowa was implicated in the worst college football scandal ever?

3. Urbanity/mega donors. Every state in the Big Ten has larger urban areas. Urban areas are where the big corporate, and billionaire family donors reside. It's also where the suburbs build football factory schools. Like the DSM suburbs. The rest of the state is afraid to even play against the DSM suburban schools. So imagine many more and much larger such areas, in every other Big Ten state. Those are the people that can collectively create functionally unlimited AD budgets and NIL deals. Even Nebraska has Omaha. Shitty city but larger than DSM and still more money over there, although DSM is gaining fast. Iowa has one actual urban area, DSM & ex/suburbs, two and a half kind of cool but small college towns, and basically a 15 or so factory towns ranging from big ones like CR/Sioux City/Davenport to little BFE's like the land of my birth (Ottumwa). And Barta doesn't seem to make much of an effort to raise the Iowa penetration and TOMA in DSM. The lack of those urban area puts Iowa farther behind in the facilities, recruiting (scouts/analysts) and, of course NIL. Even NW can get into pockets of unfathomable wealth unavailable to Iowa.

4. Lack of BB status. Iowa hasn't been near a true BB since Evy was coaching, as in my entire life and I'm 63. Iowa is nationally perceived as a very good program, almost always ranked or close to it at the end of the year. Pull off some big upsets. But our national image is still less prestigious than those inbreeds from Nebraska. They haven't been a national program in twenty years and not really good for 10--15 years. All they have to offer is the shine on a now pretty aged trophy case yet they still have a national level recruiting reach. For example, it was vs. Bug Eaters for a 4* TE. He picked Nebraska. Every Iowa starting TE, actually going back to the 90s has had an NFL career.

5. Media market. A lot more people are watching/streaming/listening to tOSU, the Pedos, Ann Arbor, Bucky and probably MSU than are watching Iowa. That gives every one of those programs the ability to expand the advantages of 1-4.

6. Market penetration. With the exception of Wisconsin, tOSU, Sparty, the Whore, and the Pedos are national brands. National media showers them with attention thus creating a nearly static small number of special programs whose success is promoted for maximum broadcast value. That creates a cycle of national public awareness (e.g. recruits, their HS coaches, donors, apparel manufacturers and sales) that allows the BB schools to feed themselves ever upward..

Those are immutable factors that highly disadvantage Iowa. Other than drive ISU from the DSM suburbs in recruiting there isn't really much of a way to overcome those disadvantages. As Lenin said quantity has its own quality.

There are some things that we, indeed every school can do or not that shuffles the population stack. Indiana, Minnesota, Maryland, Rutgers don't prioritize football, although they are occasionally good. Illinois is unstable, but the end result is they have usually sucked over the last 50 years. MSU is sometimes very good and sometimes low digit wins. Purdue down to Maryland all trail Iowa.

Bucky shows you can get near the top, but, in the end, they have rarely outperformed tOSU, Pedo St., or Ann Arbor. Even Sparty might have a better record than Bucky over the Ferentz years.

So, why hasn't Iowa had a record more in keeping with it's demo? Why haven't we become an Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Maryland or Rutgers; and all the head coaches that lost their jobs at each during KFs years at Iowa? Or their comps in every other conference. Everyone one of those programs have worse to incomparably worse records than Iowa's during the KF years. For example, NW is 148/143 in the Ferentz years. Pretty stable program during this century, right? KF has 195 wins, I think. During the KF years I'm guessing the only programs with more wins are Nebraska, but their advantage is declining at a pretty quick rate; tOSU; the Whore Ann Arbor, the Pedos, Bucky and Sparty. Purdue, 1 9-win, 1 8-win and two 7-win seasons (separated by several years) between 2008 and now. What's the constant at Iowa that allows us to avoid things like Sparty's 5-7 record last season?

Kirk Ferentz. All of those coaches that have failed to rise above Iowa, and there are now probably a couple dozen or more, were hired with the expectation that they would make that climb. Iowa was one play away from a division title with the worst offense in the country. That doesn't mean a weak program, that means we had a terrible offensive year but still came close and left with a convincing bowl win. I think we're about to see a substantial improvement on offense.

What did the coaches do in the off season. Went from an F QB to an A- to A QB; brought in at least one WR (A- to A) better than anyone on the roster last season, and maybe two. I cannot imagine that Parker would not be an upgrade from Plumb and maybe a better guard with Feth. Recover the loss of a great TE by adding another, TEU x 2.

Most coaching hires fail. Most coaches would not see Iowa as a destination, just a step, so even if we could find someone to take Iowa into 3 or 4 consecutive 10 win seasons, would he stay? If not, then back to the luck of the draw on the next, which will probably fail because most coaching hires fail.​
Well said. HawkCharlotte and others should take the time to read and digest what you wrote.
Facts don't mean we agree with every decision made by Iowa football, but there are those like you who digest reality and truth. I would assume you and I relish the great years with a fair amount of giddiness because it is special in the college football landscape. As Kirks years wind down I do enjoy his successes more than his downturn. The future isn't as certain some portrait.
 
You call other people statements 'canned'; call people who disagree 'whiners'; demand other people answer your questions and then get testy when they are not answered; and call other people's ending several threads of back and forth, pedestrian. Give me a break about "I'll ignore your stupid remarks you make". It's called sarcasm.

Above I gave stats and records to indicate that there is reason to question BF's statement that Iowa has a 'winning formula.' I repeated and added to the original post several times. I see no reason to draw a different conclusion.

Also, just because you raise a question doesn't mean others are obligated to answer it. And repeating the question is irrelevant. Plus, the question you are asking isn't an honest inquiry. Are you seriously interested in what I think Iowa football should do to improve? Answer: "No, you're not." No matter what my reply is, you're going to find some way to complain about it. This is a rhetorical tactic to silence the other person.

Section25, you're not interested in argument because you're more interested in defending Ferentz, Inc.

Your replies come across as someone who already 'knows' all the answers because you are an insider and have all the answers.

To repeat: you think BF's remarks are accurate ... Iowa is winning enough to your satisfaction. I, on the other hand, based on the rankings and the performances of Iowa over the last 20 years, see that Iowa's winning formula hasn't actually produced much that has mattered.

But your replies do point to something that is a sad side to the Iowa fan base .... too many Iowa fans are comfortable with Ferentz status-quo.
Well Charlotte find me where I said your responses are canned.
Your stupid remarks was saying I'm being paid by Brian, but the excuse is that was sarcasm. Maybe people see sarcasm as stupid in an actual conversation.
Whiners are those who constantly complain about Brian with no solutions beyond complaining about Brian. Shoe fits.
My questions are honest inquiries. I really would like to know how you would change Iowa football. What Coach, what scheme, what recruiting changes and how you would go about those changes. Is it to much for you to answer. There have been numerous other posts where people give accurate facts. I enjoy opinions when relevant even if I don't agree.
Did you ever participate in debate or take a debate class? There are always two sides, learn to present your side and be prepared to answer what the other side has countered. Sarcasm to escape doesn't work, thus the pedestrian remark.
Sure I've defended Kirk and been open with the facts why. Deplorables last post was stated way better than I have been able to rambling, but I concur with his statements. Maybe you should reply to him with a counter argument and actually back up your position why you feel the way you do.
Iowa winning enough for my satisfaction. No offense, but you are young or didn't age well. I am not on the team. As a fan I have ushered as a Boy Scout at games when we lost horribly, cold, wet, picked up all the trash and liquor bottles after and LOVED every Saturday I could be in Kinnick. Still do. Inside club seats and win or lose I normally head back to the lake, get in the boat Sunday and enjoy the day fishing. Nothing like a fresh walleye or crappie for Sunday dinner. The last thing on my mind is an Iowa football loss. Come Monday I read the message boards watching for the people who are wound to tight. Actually gets boring.
It's walleye opener here at the cabin and I already have my limit. Bacon on the stove, eggs in the pan and fresh highlander grogg. You keep telling yourself how Iowa football needs to change and making the rest of us guess at what you propose those changes to be. I need to go sit in the boat and read the sports page.
 
Here are the answers to the magic thinkers who populate the board hateful and usually silly animosity to KF and the state of the program, notwithstanding we are in the midst of our Iowa's most sustained success since the mid 80s, a streak that began 40 years ago and ended in 1987.

1. Population. Assuming that every state produces the same percentage of outstanding 4 and five star football players, here's where Iowa stands:

State National Rank Population

Pennsylvania 5 12,972,008
Illinois 6 12,582,032
Ohio 7 11,756,058
Michigan 9 10,077,331
New Jersey 11 9,261,699
Indiana 17 6,833,037
Maryland 19 6,164,660
Wisconsin 20 5,892,539
Minnesota 22 5,717,184
Iowa 32 3,200,517
Nebraska 38 1,967,923

Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan and New Jersey all have populations 3 times larger than Iowa. That means they are producing 3 times as many A- to A+ recruits as Iowa. I think we can safely assume that most states top recruits stay home, not always but generally. That means Pennsylvania could evenly divide between PSU and Pitt, which they don't, and each half would still outnumber Iowa by 2:1.

While population is not itself determinative, it is still the most important factor because almost everything stems from population.

2. Money. Again, size matters. Every state other than Nebraska has a much larger tax base than Iowa. That provides the public part of funding superior HS programs and more affluent and opulent university campuses. Population also means there are more donors great and small. That means the larger institutions are always ahead in the facilities race. The Pedo's raised record donations in the year they were outed and punished for the most despicable college sports scandal and cover up in history. There really are that many hardcore Pedo St donors. Does anyone think Iowa would have a record fundraising year if Iowa was implicated in the worst college football scandal ever?

3. Urbanity/mega donors. Every state in the Big Ten has larger urban areas. Urban areas are where the big corporate, and billionaire family donors reside. It's also where the suburbs build football factory schools. Like the DSM suburbs. The rest of the state is afraid to even play against the DSM suburban schools. So imagine many more and much larger such areas, in every other Big Ten state. Those are the people that can collectively create functionally unlimited AD budgets and NIL deals. Even Nebraska has Omaha. Shitty city but larger than DSM and still more money over there, although DSM is gaining fast. Iowa has one actual urban area, DSM & ex/suburbs, two and a half kind of cool but small college towns, and basically a 15 or so factory towns ranging from big ones like CR/Sioux City/Davenport to little BFE's like the land of my birth (Ottumwa). And Barta doesn't seem to make much of an effort to raise the Iowa penetration and TOMA in DSM. The lack of those urban area puts Iowa farther behind in the facilities, recruiting (scouts/analysts) and, of course NIL. Even NW can get into pockets of unfathomable wealth unavailable to Iowa.

4. Lack of BB status. Iowa hasn't been near a true BB since Evy was coaching, as in my entire life and I'm 63. Iowa is nationally perceived as a very good program, almost always ranked or close to it at the end of the year. Pull off some big upsets. But our national image is still less prestigious than those inbreeds from Nebraska. They haven't been a national program in twenty years and not really good for 10--15 years. All they have to offer is the shine on a now pretty aged trophy case yet they still have a national level recruiting reach. For example, it was vs. Bug Eaters for a 4* TE. He picked Nebraska. Every Iowa starting TE, actually going back to the 90s has had an NFL career.

5. Media market. A lot more people are watching/streaming/listening to tOSU, the Pedos, Ann Arbor, Bucky and probably MSU than are watching Iowa. That gives every one of those programs the ability to expand the advantages of 1-4.

6. Market penetration. With the exception of Wisconsin, tOSU, Sparty, the Whore, and the Pedos are national brands. National media showers them with attention thus creating a nearly static small number of special programs whose success is promoted for maximum broadcast value. That creates a cycle of national public awareness (e.g. recruits, their HS coaches, donors, apparel manufacturers and sales) that allows the BB schools to feed themselves ever upward..

Those are immutable factors that highly disadvantage Iowa. Other than drive ISU from the DSM suburbs in recruiting there isn't really much of a way to overcome those disadvantages. As Lenin said quantity has its own quality.

There are some things that we, indeed every school can do or not that shuffles the population stack. Indiana, Minnesota, Maryland, Rutgers don't prioritize football, although they are occasionally good. Illinois is unstable, but the end result is they have usually sucked over the last 50 years. MSU is sometimes very good and sometimes low digit wins. Purdue down to Maryland all trail Iowa.

Bucky shows you can get near the top, but, in the end, they have rarely outperformed tOSU, Pedo St., or Ann Arbor. Even Sparty might have a better record than Bucky over the Ferentz years.

So, why hasn't Iowa had a record more in keeping with it's demo? Why haven't we become an Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Maryland or Rutgers; and all the head coaches that lost their jobs at each during KFs years at Iowa? Or their comps in every other conference. Everyone one of those programs have worse to incomparably worse records than Iowa's during the KF years. For example, NW is 148/143 in the Ferentz years. Pretty stable program during this century, right? KF has 195 wins, I think. During the KF years I'm guessing the only programs with more wins are Nebraska, but their advantage is declining at a pretty quick rate; tOSU; the Whore Ann Arbor, the Pedos, Bucky and Sparty. Purdue, 1 9-win, 1 8-win and two 7-win seasons (separated by several years) between 2008 and now. What's the constant at Iowa that allows us to avoid things like Sparty's 5-7 record last season?

Kirk Ferentz. All of those coaches that have failed to rise above Iowa, and there are now probably a couple dozen or more, were hired with the expectation that they would make that climb. Iowa was one play away from a division title with the worst offense in the country. That doesn't mean a weak program, that means we had a terrible offensive year but still came close and left with a convincing bowl win. I think we're about to see a substantial improvement on offense.

What did the coaches do in the off season. Went from an F QB to an A- to A QB; brought in at least one WR (A- to A) better than anyone on the roster last season, and maybe two. I cannot imagine that Parker would not be an upgrade from Plumb and maybe a better guard with Feth. Recover the loss of a great TE by adding another, TEU x 2.

Most coaching hires fail. Most coaches would not see Iowa as a destination, just a step, so even if we could find someone to take Iowa into 3 or 4 consecutive 10 win seasons, would he stay? If not, then back to the luck of the draw on the next, which will probably fail because most coaching hires fail.​
Agree, and I believe another factor is the size of the schools. Iowa has around 30,000 students while NW and Neb are in the 24,000 range. Every other Big university has over 40,000 students and 7 have over 50,000 with PSU and OSU over 60,000. I assume that alumni are more likely doners to NIL and other athletic functions than the average citizen. As NIL continues the larger schools could have more money due both to state size and alumni size. This leaves Iowa below 11 of the 14 schools when USC and UCLA join who both have over 45,000 students.

Additionally Minn, Neb, and Wisc have one power five school to receive the NIL money and to attract football players.
 
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The Ferentz family does make roughly $8,000,000/yr. His incompetent son makes roughly a million employed in the family business. There's that. He has won in that sense.
 
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The Ferentz family does make roughly $8,000,000/yr. His incompetent son makes roughly a million employed in the family business. There's that. He has won in that sense.
what do you call what Michgan has going on?

typical hater, ignores what happened during Brians 1st 5 years only concentrate on 1 season and 1 season only. 4 straight top 25 or better finishes. but hell no to you and the other haters want them fired.

Brian was named the OC just in time for the spring practice of 2022 before that his position was the OC/TE coach, there are 10 coaches on this team just like every team they all have a position that is their jobs to coach.
 
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what do you call what Michgan has going on?

typical hater, ignores what happened during Brians 1st 5 years only concentrate on 1 season and 1 season only. 4 straight top 25 or better finishes. but hell no to you and the other haters want them fired.

Brian was named the OC just in time for the spring practice of 2022 before that his position was the OC/TE coach, there are 10 coaches on this team just like every team they all have a position that is their jobs to coach.
Jay Patrick Harbaugh is an American football coach who currently serves as special teams coordinator and safeties coach at the University of Michigan. He is the son of Michigan head coach Jim Harbaugh
 
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Jay Patrick Harbaugh is an American football coach who currently serves as special teams coordinator and safeties coach at the University of Michigan. He is the son of Michigan head coach Jim Harbaugh
Brian is a American FB coach like that makes any difference.
 
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The Ferentz family does make roughly $8,000,000/yr. His incompetent son makes roughly a million employed in the family business. There's that. He has won in that sense.
Iowa has been ranked in the AP top 25 4 of the last 5 years and has 1 9 win and 2 10 win seasons in that period and won over 70% of our games.

As far as the money they make I would say coaches salaries are too high but when looking at his peers KF is not over paid. Business College Sports list Kirk making $7 million. Luke Fickle at Wisconsin whose record at OSU is 3-5 in Big 10 play makes $7.5 million and Matt Rhule at Nebraska has a 19-20 record in three seasons at Baylor makes $9.0 million while neither has won a game at their current schools. Mel Tucker at MSU makes $9.5 million and has a 11 win season and 2 losing seasons at MSU. Ryan Day makes $9.5 million and James Franklin makes $8.5 million. There are 4 college football coaches making over $10 million per year and 3 of those make over $11 million. If Wisconsin pays $7.5 million and Nebraska pays $9.5 million and 3 years ago MSU pays $9.5 million for a coach who do you hire at Iowa for less than $7 Million?
 
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Iowa has been ranked in the AP top 25 4 of the last 5 years and has 1 9 win and 2 10 win seasons in that period and won over 70% of our games.

As far as the money they make I would say coaches salaries are too high but when looking at his peers KF is not over paid. Business College Sports list Kirk making $7 million. Luke Fickle at Wisconsin whose record at OSU is 3-5 in Big 10 play makes $7.5 million and Matt Rhule at Nebraska has a 19-20 record in three seasons at Baylor makes $9.0 million while neither has won a game at their current schools. Mel Tucker at MSU makes $9.5 million and has a 11 win season and 2 losing seasons at MSU. Ryan Day makes $9.5 million and James Franklin makes $8.5 million. There are 4 college football coaches making over $10 million per year and 3 of those make over $11 million. If Wisconsin pays $7.5 million and Nebraska pays $9.5 million and 3 years ago MSU pays $9.5 million for a coach who do you hire at Iowa for less than $7 Million?
it doesn't matter as the next coach will recruit better and Iowa constantly be competing for the BT and NC on a yearly basis not only that suddenly Iowa will be a top 10 team every year avg 60 ppg and over 600 ypg
 
Agree, and I believe another factor is the size of the schools. Iowa has around 30,000 students while NW and Neb are in the 24,000 range. Every other Big university has over 40,000 students and 7 have over 50,000 with PSU and OSU over 60,000. I assume that alumni are more likely doners to NIL and other athletic functions than the average citizen. As NIL continues the larger schools could have more money due both to state size and alumni size. This leaves Iowa below 11 of the 14 schools when USC and UCLA join who both have over 45,000 students.

Additionally Minn, Neb, and Wisc have one power five school to receive the NIL money and to attract football players.
I should have made that specific in the size matters paragraph. Those other 12 schools graduate thousands more people than Iowa every year. That creates a much larger donor class, extrapolated over 40 or 50 years of a donor's life. Adds to the inherent structural disadvantage Iowa faces.
 
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So not really any more difficult?
Are you serious? Lincoln Riley had 5 top 10 teams in five years at Oklahoma and was 11-3 at USC in his first year finishing #12 in the AP poll. I think USC is in the top tier of Big teams when they join with OSU, PSU, and Michigan.

UCLA is more of a question mark but in Chip Kelly's 4th and 5th years they were 8-4 and 9-4 and finished as a top 25 team last year. Kelly was 46-7 at Oregon so could he repeat that? I think it is reasonable to put UCLA in the second tier with Iowa, MSU, Wisconsin, and possibly Maryland as they are 7-6, and 8-5 in Locksley's 3rd and 4th years. Playing in the East makes Maryland's W-L record lower than when they don't have to play OSU, PSU, and Michigan every year. The new schedule is expected to have us playing every school in the Big 10 every other year and 3 rivals schools yearly.
 
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it doesn't matter as the next coach will recruit better and Iowa constantly be competing for the BT and NC on a yearly basis not only that suddenly Iowa will be a top 10 team every year avg 60 ppg and over 600 ypg
Great illustration of the magic thinking that underpins the Never Ferentz kettle. No one knows the next coach will recruit better or win more games. 1. Whoever coaches Iowa faces very high hurdles in finding Ferentz level success. 2. All of those hurdles are growing higher with no salary cap free agency (portal + NIL).

Every time a school changes coaches they say he will recruit better and win more. Usually doesn't happen. How will we raise more money for the next coach? The NIL will be more entrenched, and the salary demands escalating. How do we find that money given the limitations I described? How do we outbid someone like Oregon, that has a functionally unlimited NIL money. The same is true for BBs and a few programs that might find an ultra-wealthy sugar daddy.

The real-world answers are much harder to find.
 
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Are you serious? Lincoln Riley had 5 top 10 teams in five years at Oklahoma and was 11-3 at USC in his first year finishing #12 in the AP poll. I think USC is in the top tier of Big teams when they join with OSU, PSU, and Michigan.

UCLA is more of a question mark but in Chip Kelly's 4th and 5th years they were 8-4 and 9-4 and finished as a top 25 team last year. Kelly was 46-7 at Oregon so could he repeat that? I think it is reasonable to put UCLA in the second tier with Iowa, MSU, Wisconsin, and possibly Maryland as they are 7-6, and 8-5 in Locksley's 3rd and 4th years. Playing in the East makes Maryland's W-L record lower than when they don't have to play OSU, PSU, and Michigan every year. The new schedule is expected to have us playing every school in the Big 10 every other year and 3 rivals schools yearly.
To paraphrase Steve Alford..."basketball school". ;)
 
Agreed, Barry knew what he was doing and building up the surrounding high school programs was part of it.

I hear ya, but I'd suggest the highlighted portion of your second paragraph does validate my other points. If you build it the right way, they will come...even to Fargo, North Dakota. NDSU may not be D-1 but they are a dominant powerhouse in a pretty desolate place. That have an NFL draft pick and UDFAs regularly (from an FCS program).

Boise State has won 10+ games 18 times in the last 25 years finishing in the FBS Top 25 14 of those years including 4 times in the Top 10 (only 1 less than Iowa over the same period). They're not Ohio State or Alabama but they did that in the middle of nowhere population-wise.

It's harder some places than others, no doubt. But it's not impossible. We saw first hand how a change in attitude and approach combined with the right coach can turn a program around.
Is Boise State that good? Do football players not accepted at other schools get into Boise State. US News ranks BS as the 331 best university out of 440 while Iowa is #83.

How does Boise State do against power 5 schools. I included BYU as power 5 though they have had several week schedules over this period. 2022 BS was 10-4 with losses to 10-3 Oregon State who was 6-3 in conference. Oregon State also beat Fresno State the team that beat BS in the conference championship. So they were 2-0 against the two best teams in the MWC yet 6-3 in the Pac 12. They also lost to 5-7 UTEP and 8-5 BYU.

I will skip 2021 as they were 7-5 and 2020 the covid year. In 2019 they were 12-2 and ranked 23rd. They beat 6-7 FSU who was 4-4 in conference and lost to 7-6 BYU and 8-5 Washington who was 4-5 in conference. Ranked 23rd, not in my book. They were 1-2 against power 5 schools and not one was close to being ranked.

In 2018 they had another 10 win season at 10-3 and a # 23 AP ranking. They lost to Oklahoma State who was 7-6 and 3-6 in conference and beat a 7-6 BYU. They also lost to Fresno State in the conference championship game who earlier in the year had lost to Minnesota who was 7-6 and 3-6 in conference. Again ranked 23rd, again which is a joke. A 9-4 Iowa was ranked 25th and beat Minnesota by 17 while the MWC champion Fresno State loses to Minnesota and beats BS in the championship game.

2017 BS was 11-3 and ranked 22nd in the AP. They lost to Washington State who was 9-4 and 6-3 in conference and 6-7 Virginia who was 3-5 in conference they beat 4-9 BYU and 7-6 Oregon who was 4-5 in conference. They were 2-2 against power 5 teams and 2 had a losing record.

In 2016 were 10-3 and they beat 8-5 Washington State who was 7-2 in conference, beat 4-8 Oregon State who was 3-6 in conference and 9-4 BYU. Lost to 8-6 Wyoming who lost to Nebraska 52-17 who lost to Iowa 40-10. They then lost to Air Force and Baylor who was 7-6 and 3-6 in conference.
 
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If Boise State played in the big ten they would be a 6-6/7-5 program most years if that. What a joke. Blow up our whole program (82-43 over the past ten years) to try to be like Boise State a glorified mid major who hasn’t played in a P5 conference. Idiotic.
 
Is Boise State that good? Do football players not accepted at other schools get into Boise State. US News ranks BS as the 331 best university out of 440 while Iowa is #83.

How does Boise State do against power 5 schools. I included BYU as power 5 though they have had several week schedules over this period. 2022 BS was 10-4 with losses to 10-3 Oregon State who was 6-3 in conference. Oregon State also beat Fresno State the team that beat BS in the conference championship. So they were 2-0 against the two best teams in the MWC yet 6-3 in the Pac 12. They also lost to 5-7 UTEP and 8-5 BYU.

I will skip 2021 as they were 7-5 and 2020 the covid year. In 2019 they were 12-2 and ranked 23rd. They beat 6-7 FSU who was 4-4 in conference and lost to 7-6 BYU and 8-5 Washington who was 4-5 in conference. Ranked 23rd, not in my book. They were 1-2 against power 5 schools and not one was close to being ranked.

In 2018 they had another 10 win season at 10-3 and a # 23 AP ranking. They lost to Oklahoma State who was 7-6 and 3-6 in conference and beat a 7-6 BYU. They also lost to Fresno State in the conference championship game who earlier in the year had lost to Minnesota who was 7-6 and 3-6 in conference. Again ranked 23rd, again which is a joke. A 9-4 Iowa was ranked 25th and beat Minnesota by 17 while the MWC champion Fresno State loses to Minnesota and beats BS in the championship game.

2017 BS was 11-3 and ranked 22nd in the AP. They lost to Washington State who was 9-4 and 6-3 in conference and 6-7 Virginia who was 3-5 in conference they beat 4-9 BYU and 7-6 Oregon who was 4-5 in conference. They were 2-2 against power 5 teams and 2 had a losing record.

In 2016 were 10-3 and they beat 8-5 Washington State who was 7-2 in conference, beat 4-8 Oregon State who was 3-6 in conference and 9-4 BYU. Lost to 8-6 Wyoming who lost to Nebraska 52-17 who lost to Iowa 40-10. They then lost to Air Force and Baylor who was 7-6 and 3-6 in conference.
You're missing the point. If you read...I clearly said they're not an Ohio State or Alabama. Nobody is suggesting that.
But they are proof you can build a winning program almost anywhere. They end up ranked at the end of the season more often than not...sometimes very high.
 
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the method is: just win 7 games period. minimum. if you win 9 or ten by accident, so be it, it's all gravy after 7. if you go to a good bowl or a big ten champ game, it matters not if you win, obviously, because you hit the 7 win goal.
 
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You're missing the point. If you read...I clearly said they're not an Ohio State or Alabama. Nobody is suggesting that.
But they are proof you can build a winning program almost anywhere. They end up ranked at the end of the season more often than not...sometimes very high.
They have been ranked 3 times in the last 8 years. With the rankings at 22nd or 23rd. In 2019 they were 1-2 vs power 5 teams. How do they deserve to be ranked? They lost to 7-6 BYU who only played 4 power 5 schools and 8-5 Washington who was 4-5 in conference. What would their record be in the Pac 12 3-6?

2018 ranked again yet lost to Oklahoma State who was 3-6 in conference while the conference champion Fresno State lost to Minnesota who was 3-6 in conference. How would a MWC team do against a Big 10 or Big 12 schedule. Do they win 2,3, or maybe 4 games?

2017 again ranked and 2-2 against power 5 teams and losing to Virginia who had a 3-5 record in the ACC. All three years they lose to a power 5 school with a losing conference record.

I do not see this a a winning program in a power 5 conference. Yearly they and Fresno State lose to power 5 schools with losing conference records or teams with 3 or more conference losses while they have 1 or 0 in the MWC. How would they hold up playing 10 power 5 teams yearly?
 
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