A lot of easy wins in the Mountain West or wherever Boise plays now. Not grinding it out in the Big Ten.
What true method is BF talking about?
- Thread starter HawkCharlotte
- Start date
Convenient place to snip your data. What about the 13 years before that? Pollsters didn't put them at #6, 4, 9 and 6 because they felt sorry for 'em...unless you're suggesting they were unworthy of those rankings.
Once again....slowly.... Nobody is saying they're world-beaters. Population and location were sited as reasons why Iowa can't be more dominant. Clearly BSU built a pretty good program in a even more remote place with lower population...one good enough to end up in the Top 10 4 times over a period of 6 years. When Iowa did that 4 times over 8 years (and again in 2015) we were pounding our chests.
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Dude, Boise State has never played a Big Ten like schedule, week in and out. They built a pretty good program, pulled off a few upsets, helped by some down years at BYU. But they are not a regular P5 kind of program. Frankly, they did get a lot of charity votes that loves seeing a funky underdog succeed. Hell, I feel that way about them.
Don't ever compare me to a Cyclone. I have not, will not and have never contemplated sexual congress with any animals but female homo sapiens. No sheep, no pigs, no goats in my bio.
For that, you have my apology. No Hawk fan should ever toss that at another. (you'll note I deleted it).
Again...my point was never "Boise State is as good as any B1G team". I never said that. Simply pointing out that they built a damn good program in the middle of nowhere. 4 Top 10 finishes are 4 Top 10 finishes.
Anyway...Monday on the horizon. Time to fire up the grill before it gets here.
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After the paid upgrade to ChatGPTPlus
You: Try that again please.
ChatGPTPlus: You're right. Nebraska sucks.
The last 8 years seem much more important than when Chris Peterson was coach. Then Bryan Harsin was the coach that had them ranked 22nd and 23rd is also gone. Then the current coach took over the last two years 7-5 and 10-4.
Their 10-4 season is not impressive as you mentioned how many 10 win seasons they had. They lost to Oregon State who was 17th in the final AP poll and 6-3 in the Pac 12. Then lost to 5-7 UTEP and 8-5 BYU. BYU had losses to 7-6 Arkansas 3-5 conference 8-5 Liberty, and 8-5 East Carolina 4-4 in conference. BYU and UTEP were not remotely good teams. Then lost to 10-4 Fresno State in the championship game.
They are in the Mountain division of the MCW that includes Air Force you know where you have a military obligation, Wyoming talk about remote, New Mexico yes remote, Utah State who gets 3rd pick of athletes in Utah after Utah and BYU, and Colorado State. Looks like BS has an advantage over several of those schools. Idaho is a small state with 1 FBS team and 1 FCS team. Iowa is competing against another power 5 program in state and and power 5 programs on each border other than SD. Iowa competes against 12 Big 10 teams with larger populations and 6 with 1 power 5 program in the state. BS is not a power 5 program and comparing their recruiting to a power 5 program is meaningless.
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"Your canned answers go to show you have little thought to how college football works."
-Section25, Friday at 11:58 AM
This is peppered with insults, ad hominem, red herrings, and stacking-the-deck fallacies.
As you say, "Iowa winning enough for my satisfaction." The disagreement isn't over facts or arguments but over values and standards of 'winning.' Which is why I said you're not *open* to arguments or facts that are contrary to your view.
FACTS:
Under KF, Iowa won tied for two B1G championships 17 and 21 years ago, beat LSU in the C1 bowl 18 years ago, and won an Orange Bowl 14 years ago.
HAWKCharlotte's question:
What does BF mean by a 'winning' method that justifies his comments?
Replies from Section25 and others:
Demographics!! We don't have $$!! Lack of Urban luxuries! Etc.
If this and other things like this is what you base your views on, then Section25 et. al., should encourage Iowa to leave the Big Ten. What's the point of staying in the Big Ten if the best Iowa can do is what BF and KF have done? This is the logical conclusion to the facts stated.
However, for those of us who believe Iowa should be in the Big Ten, then KF and BF are paid millions of dollars and are given tens of millions of dollars for facility improvements to WIN something.
What is frustrating about fans like Section25 and others who think like them, is that it lets KF and BF off the hook from ever producing a championship team.
Brian mispoke, he meant “we still have Phil Parker”
The demographics, $$ issues, urban luxuries, etc. have NOT stopped Parker from producing a CHAMPIONSHIP level Defense year in and year out
These have not stopped Iowa Special Team coaches from producing CHAMPIONSHIP level Special Teams.
Iowa has a True and Winning Method for D and Special Teams.
All that is missing is simply a DECENT offense. However, BF and KF cannot produce much that is consistent enough to produce a Championship team.
So, when BF says they have a true and proven winning method, he's full of crap. For the D and ST ... yes, Iowa has a true method. For the Offense that is the RESPONSIBILITY OF THE FERENTZ, INC.
To everyone who has eyes to see, it's clear Iowa needs to evolve/develop their "method."
Thank you for the courtesy. But BSU doesn't disprove my theory about the inherent limitations reality imposes on Iowa. Boise built a cool and fun program against a level of competition that is not analogous to the Iowa schedule. To raise our profile significantly we need money in an amount of such enormity that is simply beyond our reach.
It would also help if the U of Iowa maintained educational and citizenship "exemptions and exceptions" that most other upper-level athletic programs permit. They are far up the male coaches asses about not taking at risk players.
Okay I admit I said canned response. Maybe I've peppered you with insults, red drum, hominy grits and supposedly stacked some kind of deck. Good now that that is out of the way...
My standard is 8-4, what is yours?
If a standard or value isn't used to get me to 8-4, what is? I donate, buy season tickets, contribute extra to I-club and NIL. 8-4 satisfied my standard and value to keep donating to Iowa football. Those combined are the facts to how I decide to donate. You have never stated what the program goals are for you and how you establish those.
Brian Ferentz comment is directed towards the program as a whole, meaning Kirk Ferentz as head coach, has defined what it takes for Iowa to be a winning program. Kirk has his "method" on what Iowa needs to do to win. The justification is Kirk is the head coach and the program is run how he wants it run.
So what is frustrating about fans like myself is I would really like to win the division, win the conference championship game and play for a National Title. Why do you think I donate if I don't want a winning team?
Leave the Big Ten?
Have you ever seen any other teams facilities? It's an ongoing arms race with facilities. Iowa has nice facilities, but they are old now in the arms race. He'll go to Northwestern and check out what they are doing relative to the support they have. Nice facilities with a smaller stadium, because that fits their demographics and support.
Seriously Kirk is given millions of dollars for facilities and paid millions to win? Iowa is trying to keep up after being far behind with facilities. We recruited damn good for what we had. I suggest you tour, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Minnesota, Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn States facilities along with Iowa. We have top notch facilities, but there are schools in the Big Ten pouring three times the money Iowa has into facilities.
Money- Iowa is outspent in recruiting by bunches.
Parker has not had championship level defenses year in and year out. Very high level defenses yes, no doubt. We lost Cooper against Nebraska and lost the game.
Last drive against MSU in the title game we didn't have depth to finish on the defensive side.
Don't twist what is being said as Phil is great at developing the talent they have, but it takes time and they are just starting to stack talent on the line in the last couple of years. We are still one injury away on the secondary or at linebacker to be exploited by skill guys. We are not Georgia, Alabama depth and skill defenses. Those are Championship defenses. Stat wise, Iowa does really well, the game is played on the field.
Championship game against Michigan, Iowa's defense held for 3 quarters of the game and then the gas tank ran low, Kentucky the first bowl game against, couldn't get crucial stops. Sure it's nice to have an offense that can keep the defense off the field. Championship caliber defenses make the plays anyway. Phil Parker has stayed at Iowa BECAUSE of Kirk.
Special teams immediately improved when Iowa changed the philosophy of putting starters on special teams. It has also helped to have really good punting. The best players play on special teams and Levar does a phenomenal job at what Kirk wants him to do. Kirk is the head coach and Levar has not left Iowa BECAUSE of Kirk.
Offense really is still recovering from Reese Morgan's retirement. Reese could recruit. Doyle could help coach O-line. The offensive issues are not singular on one coach. They are getting the steam the defense has had. Everyone knows that the offense has been pedestrian. Look at what NIL has done on that side of the ball. Do you think Cade comes without Bud being at Iowa? Bud works for Kirk and with Brian. Do you think he is at Iowa without Kirk? Do the line transfers come without Barnett? Does the last o-line commit without Barnett? Does All come without Cade? Does the Iowa program get two receivers from Ohio State without Ferentz inc? They transfered because of the stability of the program, a chance to succeed in the Iowa offense and NIL.
The portal transfers point to the fact the "winning method" does work. Just use Cade as an example of that winning method and Brian's commitment to Cade. Winning method brings winners from winning programs like Michigan and Ohio State. See how it works. The bottom line is still we are behind in NIL.
NIL- It has been said we need 10000 contributors and we only have less than a third of that. Where's all this money you claim Ferentz Inc. has to become a winning championship caliber team in your eyes. I tongue in cheek told you to get some friends and donate 1 million dollars a piece. If Ferentz Inc was gone tomorrow, would the next Coach want to know what Iowa's NIL looks like before taking the job? A new Coach may just bring a few more contributors to the table, but it hasn't proven true at other programs.
Okay Charlotte, to sum up; Yeah I said canned, called you a few names, answered all your questions, shown allegiance to Kirk, donated my hard earned cash for a pedestrian offense, am happy about the portal use, tried to listen to you tell me Ferentz Inc. sucks with some stats and had an open mind the whole time. My conclusion is still you are a whiney turd that has never played or coached sports, lives far away from Iowa, doesn't contribute a dime for tickets but you still have an opinion. At the end of the day you still get to tell me I'm wrong about everything and voice your opinion.
What does BF mean by a 'winning' method that justifies his comments?
It is quite simple Iowa is tied at #14 in wins over the last ten years in college football with 86 wins. Additionally two teams ahead of Iowa, Boise State and San Diego State are in the MWC and play a group of 5 schedule. Our 86 wins are ahead of teams like Penn State 85, Utah 83, FSU and Washington 82, Michigan State and USC 81, and Texas 69. So we are 12th of 65 power five teams. Our numbers are also hurt by the covid year where we played 8 games all Big 10. Oklahoma State has won 89 games and played 11 games in the covid year winning 8 including beating Tulsa.
Who is ahead of Iowa, well the blue bloods Alabama, Notre Dame, OSU the teams with the recruiting advantages.
Getting personal again and a post filled with excuses for two failed coaches.
If it wasn't for Parker, KF and BF would be out of work.
Iowa is paying millions $$ to Ferentz, Inc., and Inc, cannot come up with a half-way decent offense. They are unable to do it.
Before you reply next time, please sober up. Thanks.
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BF wastes elite defenses because they can't produce an O that cannot score more than a few TDs a game.
Take away the OSU game, the D gave up 9 points a game and Iowa won 7 regular season games and then beat KY 21-0 with 14 coming from the D.
Time and time again the D gives the O great field position and BF's O responds 3 and outs and then Iowa's elite Punter pins the opponent near the goal line. The D shuts then down. BF's O gets good field position. Shits it down their leg. REPEAT!
But keep the faith man!!!!
I don't drink.
Phil Parker has chosen to work FOR Kirk.
You have this thing about being insulted and you are extremely jealous of money. See a shrink.
Please drink a fifth of Jack before you post again, at some point you might be relevant
It's okay as I do find you a funny sort of immature.
I think most everyone on this board realized the offense needed some players. Tell us something we don't know?!
If the defense is giving up points under your bizarre scenarios, they are failing to win the game for us. Fire Phil Parker for shits sake, he is giving up points when the offense can't score.
I'll keep the faith and support Kirk and his whole staff...even his son, son in law, Mary etc.
I'm saving all the good posters from the irony of all this. You earned my ignorance, I mean ignore function.
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The majority of 5 star athletes are in the southeast and Texas and California. Georgia has a crap ton relatively within a few hours of their campus.
New Yorkers must play some other sports as not very many from that area of the US.
New Yorkers must play some other sports as not very many from that area of the US.
I think NY is like Chicago where few high schools in the city have room for athletic fields.
more ad hominem .... keep it up!!!! you're doing great!!!!!!
You're shouting at a rock. The Charlottes are impervious to fact or reason. They occupy a magic world where Iowa can be competitive in the facility and NIL markets by "winning more and recruiting better". Well, there we are, it really is just that simple. Just because Iowa has the 12th best record in all P5 football in the last decade (and probably the decade before that), doesn't mean Kirk is a good HC, or that Iowa is playing winning football. Kirk is really just the ****ing idiot backing into these wins. His real motive is gaining millions for his family and he's just scamming Iowa.
The fact that Iowa is small state, with a correspondingly much smaller share of P5 football talent. Bahhhh, no problem. The fact that we lack a large city where big donors live...baaahhhh. Win more, that's the answer.
Remember, those thinkers are the tics and lice of internet discourse. Just pests.
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Ok DSD ... here ya go:
FACT: Phil Parker has produced a championship level D year in and year out with current facility and NIL markets.
FACT: Iowa ST coaches have produced championship-level ST year in and year out with current facility and NIL markets.
CONCLUSION: producing championship-level squads is attainable at Iowa in the current facility and NIL markets.
NEXT FACT: KF and BF cannot produce decent, let alone average, level O year in and year with the current facility and NIL markets.
CONCLUSION #1: KF and BF cannot do with their squads what Parker and SS coaches are able to do with theirs.
REASON: KF's O philosophy is outdated and BF is in over his head with his current coaching responsibilities.
BF's response to the media regarding this? "We have a tried and true method," said Ferentz. "We know how we win, we know who we are."
CONCLUSION #2: If Iowa had a decent O to go along with championship-level D and ST, then Iowa WOULD HAVE the kind of winning method that would justify BF's reply.
FACT: It is impossible to let KF go with his current contract ... and thus impossible to get rid of BF anytime soon.
Replies from Swarm25 and DSD???
"The Charlottes of the world are impervious to fact or reason."
"Charlotte is a turd who isn't aging well."
"these thinkers are the ticks and lice of internet discourse. Just pests."
Replies like these make my day ... it means they have LOST the argument. All they have left is repeat the same ol' boring excuses that KF is doing his darndest!
All the while the D and ST at Iowa every year PROVE that Iowa's demographics, $$, NIL, etc. do not stand in the way of quality coaches producing championship-level squads.
KF's philosophy is outdated and BF isn't capable of producing a decent O.
Why does Kirk get blamed for the outdated philosophy, but not get partial credit at least for what Phil does on defense?
Kirk/Brian get their blame for the struggles on offense, but seemingly you are arguing that Phil gets sole credit for the defense, Kirk has no impact, etc.
What partial credit has K merited for what his DC has done?
K/B merit blame for the squads THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR. KF is responsible for the O's philosophy because it's HIS. Phil gets praise for his D philosophy because he KNOWS how to use it to make elite Ds.
Does Phil get partial BLAME for the O because he's chosen to coach the D for KF? No.
Similarly, KF should not get partial REWARD for the D he doesn't coach or run.
Kirk is the head coach of the ENTIRE team. Why does he only get blame for a unit that does poorly and no credit at all for the units that do well?
All operate under his overall philosophy and vision for the program.
I put the one who thinks he's so smart on ignorance/ignore. It became obvious he just is posting because he thinks he gets a worked up response from people.
The responses have been reasonable well thought out replies from most posters.
It will be interesting the next couple of years that I see Iowa going on one of those special runs if these posters come back with anything positive or if they find something new to squabble about.
Also of note that the thread starter finds it okay to level negative connotations about Kirk and Brian, but can't take it when it is thrown back at him.
The thread is full of decent fans who understand college athletics, but you have one moron who jumps back to the thread to validate himself to himself. Weird person, but the ignore feature means I don't see him on the board at all.
You seem to confuse fact with your opinion.
FACT: Phil Parker has produced a championship level D year in and year out with current facility and NIL markets.
In 2021 here are the facts. Ranked by total defense Wisc #1, Minn #4, ISU #10, Mich #12, Iowa #19. We won the Big West with the 3rd best D in total D. And played 4 teams with a better D in total D. In points scored Mich #4, Wisc #6, PSU # 7, Minn # 10, Iowa #15. Again third best in the Big 10 West and Michigan was conference champion with a better total D and scoring D. Once again played 4 teams with a better scoring D. Kirk won the West with Phil's 3rd best defense.
2015 we won the West with the 3rd best defense. Points allowed Wisc #1, NW # 7 and Iowa #15. Total yards Wisc #3, NW # 11, Iowa # 20. 2016 Wisc had a better defense in both scoring and points per game. 2017 Points per game Wisc #3, Purdue #18, NW # 19, Iowa #20. 2017 total yards Wisc #1, Minn #29, Iowa #35. In 2017 when including all the Big 10 teams we were 8th in total defense and 6th in points per game in the Big 10.
What do you mean by championship level? Big 10 West champion, Big 10 champion or National Champion.
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Your question was answered in the post.
And what sort of credit do you think KF *should* get for squads he *does not* directly coach?
Good question ....
Some years West champ level, others conference champ, and arguably, some National Champ level.
And it also depends on what criteria is being used ... total defense is one measure ... total points another, and yardage yet another.
As HC, Kirk have veto power ... so in that sense ... yes the entire team's play is under his control.
Yet, if you listen to his interviews and how he runs the team, its very much like Fry ran his team. KF hires coaches to do their job and basically lets them do just that.
At the very least, granting all the praise KF should get for the D, then are people in the thread willing to put the blame of the O on him as well?
Too many want to praise KF for all the good and then excuse the bad on demographics, NIL, etc.
If we are going to get technical on what are facts and what are opinions (which is fine, clarity is a virtue), then rankings are also opinions and not facts, because the weight placed on different criteria for determining what the 'rankings' are has elements of subjectivity--and not facts.
So, instead of 'championship-level' (agree this is opinion) I should use 'very successful' (also opinion but has a less subjective basis).
Basically, here is Section25's lexicon:
"Decent fans who understand college athletics" (I assume he just means football) = folks who agree with him.
"moron ... who is weird" = a person who doesn't agree with him.
I take exception to how Fry ran his teams. Read Bill Snyder's book page 20 he talks about Fry unearthing some plays that would sometimes baffle him, yet he new when to use them. Fry loves gadget plays as this was fun for him. His tendency to roll the dice often times made Snyder cringe yet they often paid dividends.
Sure sounds like Fry was very involved in game day play calling. Also left me with the impression Snyder disagreed with many calls and didn't want to discuss how many calls did not work. They often paid dividends? What does this mean if they worked half the time or more I would think he would say that.
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Fry ran the Offense; agreed. Fry was heavily involved in the O and so, Fry did not hire an OC with the intention of letting the coach run it how he wanted.
But that does not detract from the overarching point on how he let his coaches run things.
Fry looked for coaches who wanted to be HC because he believed they would do what they were paid to do.
Fry took this approach with his players as well .... his famous 'bell cow' approach to team discipline.
Look at how he let Bill Brashier RUN the defense.
Harty: Bill Brashier helped make Hayden Fry a legend - Hawk Fanatic
IOWA CITY, Iowa – My first thought upon hearing that Bill Brashier is one of the 2015 inductees into the University of Athletics Hall of Fame is what took so long? Brashier retired as the Iowa football team’s defensive coordinator after the 1995 season. He left in style as Iowa pounded...
hawkfanatic.com
From the article:
While Fry controlled everything on offense from personnel decisions to play calling, he mostly left the defense alone because he trusted Brashier to make the right decisions.
“As my defensive coordinator, he allowed me to focus on the offense and my administrative duties as head coach,” Fry wrote in his autobiography titled “Hayden Fry: A High Porch Picnic.” “Bill told me how we were going to defense an opponent, and then did it, always very well. His defenses were often at the top of the Big Ten in several statistical categories.”
How are we supposed to win the West, in the complete, total, and utter absence of an offense?
then rankings are also opinions and not facts, because the weight placed on different criteria for determining what the 'rankings' are has elements of subjectivity--and not facts.
The rankings I used are facts not opinions. Total defense is the accumulation of your opponents total yards divided total games. Points per game is the total of your opponents total scores divided by games. No weight is placed on any of these stats. The only subjectivity is the stats that I chose to use. If you have stats you feel are better and can be researched please do.
Is Parker's defense very successful, since it is obvious it is not championship level, or the other teams offense bad? Why do you give Parker's defense credit rather than assume we is playing a bad offense? And of course when looking at Iowa's offense we should look at the defense they are playing. since often we are playing a defense as good or better than Iowa's.
2021 In 2021 we played Wisc #1 in total defense, Minn #4, ISU #10, Mich #12, Kentucky #26, Purdue #31, PSU #35, Illinois #50, and Neb #51. 9 of 14 games we played a top 51 defense. We played 1 defense in the bottom 26.
2022 Iowa played 7 top 15 defenses or over half our schedule and 3 more in the top 65 with the worst ranked at 100 of 131 in total defenses.
Why does the Big 12 have great offenses in 2022. This is the reason, ISU at #10 was the best defense in the Big 12 followed by #54 Texas. On the flip side the worst defense we played was Neb at #100 who allowed 414 YGP, while ISU played Texas Tech #108, Ohio #109, Okla St #115, Oklahoma #123, and Kansas #127. Oklahoma and Kansas both allowed over 460 yards per game.
