What would a defense 1st starting lineup and rotation be like?

[KcTo]

What would happen if Fran played his best defensive lineup more, but still ran up tempo?
What if that lineup went: Murray, Murray, Ogundele, Perkins and JoeT?

Rim protectors? Check. Rebounders? Check. Perimeter defense? Check. Scorers? Murrays and Perkins, check. Over all Defense. Double check.

Fran can still get Jobo 8-10 3pt FGA, by playing when a Murray and Perkins is out, Ogundele isn’t going to play 30 min, so there is plenty of minutes for P Mac and Rebraca at the 4-5 spots.

This sort of team won’t give up 45 1h points to #330 ranked team or give up 56 1H points and 56% shooting in 2nd round of the NCAA.

 

[fivecardstud14]

Toussaint/Ulis/Perkins/Murray/Murray

 

[perryhawk]

What would happen if Fran played his best defensive lineup more, but still ran up tempo?
What if that lineup went: Murray, Murray, Ogundele, Perkins and JoeT?

Rim protectors? Check. Rebounders? Check. Perimeter defense? Check. Scorers? Murrays and Perkins, check. Over all Defense. Double check.

Fran can still get Jobo 8-10 3pt FGA, by playing when a Murray and Perkins is out, Ogundele isn’t going to play 30 min, so there is plenty of minutes for P Mac and Rebraca at the 4-5 spots.

This sort of team won’t give up 45 1h points to #330 ranked team or give up 56 1H points and 56% shooting in 2nd round of the NCAA.

As much as I want JO to be a stud.......he is not yet a good defensive player.....the other group makes some sense, but can't see Josh O in there.

 

[Lighting Hawk]

Ulis
Perkins
Connor
Murray
Murray or Rebraca

 

[KcTo]

As much as I want JO to be a stud.......he is not yet a good defensive player.....the other group makes some sense, but can't see Josh O in there.

There are some big centers in the B1G, I don’t think we want Keegan Murray accumulating fouls guarding them.

allowing Ogundele to play M2M in the post, will allow both Murray’s to do what they do best, help side D, blocking shots, protecting the Rim, and not exposing Keegan to foul trouble , particularly in the the 1st half

 

[Lighting Hawk]

Yeah I don’t think we realistically can expect Keagan or Kris to guard a 7’4” Zach Edey or 7’ Kofi and maximize production.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Since when do basketball teams need "defensive line-ups"?

Teams like Wisconsin are good defensively every season. And usually have about average quickness as a team.

Value defense, teach it correctly, and hold players accountable. When you do this, every lineup you run out there will be good defensively.

We all know this isn't the case at Iowa. Fran's an offensive coach and has always taken the "trade-off" to the extreme. It is what it is.

The one thing I will say is that guys like Touissant, Ulis, Perkins, and the Murrays seemed to be recruited with intention. It seems that Fran's first address to his defensive deficiencies has been to recruit players with a higher defensive ceiling. Let's hope there are more steps to building a better defense on the way

 

[RocknRollface]

Yeah I don’t think we realistically can expect Keagan or Kris to guard a 7’4” Zach Edey or 7’ Kofi and maximize production.

Dickenson is better than either of them and he struggled against a smaller team agressivly doubling him the other night.

So did Luka to an extent.

Its not quite the problem you guys think it is when you can effectively double and you gain allot in other ways by staying quicker.

Sure they're going to get it deep sometimes and score but thats worth the trade offs.

Theres also no way any of those 7fters can defend Keegan on the perimeter.

Its easier to isolate a slow big off the dribble than it is for that player to consistently score on the block against double teams.

 

[RocknRollface]

Since when do basketball teams need "defensive line-ups"?

Teams like Wisconsin are good defensively every season. And usually have about average quickness as a team.

Value defense, teach it correctly, and hold players accountable. When you do this, every lineup you run out there will be good defensively.

We all know this isn't the case at Iowa. Fran's an offensive coach and has always taken the "trade-off" to the extreme. It is what it is.

The one thing I will say is that guys like Touissant, Ulis, Perkins, and the Murrays seemed to be recruited with intention. It seems that Fran's first address to his defensive deficiencies has been to recruit players with a higher defensive ceiling. Let's hope there are more steps to building a better defense on the way

Agree.

You could argue, and I would, that you don't play at Wisconsin without being a solid defender.

Same goes for most of the upper half teams like Illinois, UM, MSU, Purdue ect.

Those coaches don't bring in poor defenders and they don't allow guys who don't play defense to be on the court.

 

[RocknRollface]

Toussaint/Ulis/Perkins/Murray/Murray

This would be the best set of defenders.

Id put Rebraca and Connor in the decent defender category.

Sandfort is ok.

 

[SSG T]

This would be the best set of defenders.

Id put Rebraca and Connor in the decent defender category.

Sandfort is ok.

It's very early, but statistically the 5 best defenders would be JT, AU, TP, CMac, Keegan. #6 is Rebraca, and he's really quite a ways behind those 5.

 

[CleteyColgate]

What would happen if Fran played his best defensive lineup more, but still ran up tempo?
What if that lineup went: Murray, Murray, Ogundele, Perkins and JoeT?

Rim protectors? Check. Rebounders? Check. Perimeter defense? Check. Scorers? Murrays and Perkins, check. Over all Defense. Double check.

Fran can still get Jobo 8-10 3pt FGA, by playing when a Murray and Perkins is out, Ogundele isn’t going to play 30 min, so there is plenty of minutes for P Mac and Rebraca at the 4-5 spots.

This sort of team won’t give up 45 1h points to #330 ranked team or give up 56 1H points and 56% shooting in 2nd round of the NCAA.

The whole 2nd team

 

[nbanflfactory]

Yeah I don’t think we realistically can expect Keagan or Kris to guard a 7’4” Zach Edey or 7’ Kofi and maximize production.

Can't expect more than 15mins out of jo, and I don't see how we can even expect that

 

[kceasthawk]

What would happen if Fran played his best defensive lineup more, but still ran up tempo?
What if that lineup went: Murray, Murray, Ogundele, Perkins and JoeT?

Rim protectors? Check. Rebounders? Check. Perimeter defense? Check. Scorers? Murrays and Perkins, check. Over all Defense. Double check.

Fran can still get Jobo 8-10 3pt FGA, by playing when a Murray and Perkins is out, Ogundele isn’t going to play 30 min, so there is plenty of minutes for P Mac and Rebraca at the 4-5 spots.

This sort of team won’t give up 45 1h points to #330 ranked team or give up 56 1H points and 56% shooting in 2nd round of the NCAA.

Unfortunately I have no idea how you'd know what you have when JO is out there. So far against teams no where near the level we'll be playing he's been foul prone on defense, and lost on offense. We'd all like to see him be a solid contributor this season, BUT wishing for it ain't going to make it so.......

 

[RocknRollface]

Unfortunately I have no idea how you'd know what you have when JO is out there. So far against teams no where near the level we'll be playing he's been foul prone on defense, and lost on offense. We'd all like to see him be a solid contributor this season, BUT wishing for it ain't going to make it so.......

Yeah, in no way would he be beneficial to Iowas defense.

Right now he's lost.

 

[KcTo]

Since when do basketball teams need "defensive line-ups"?

Teams like Wisconsin are good defensively every season. And usually have about average quickness as a team.

Value defense, teach it correctly, and hold players accountable. When you do this, every lineup you run out there will be good defensively.

We all know this isn't the case at Iowa. Fran's an offensive coach and has always taken the "trade-off" to the extreme. It is what it is.

The one thing I will say is that guys like Touissant, Ulis, Perkins, and the Murrays seemed to be recruited with intention. It seems that Fran's first address to his defensive deficiencies has been to recruit players with a higher defensive ceiling. Let's hope there are more steps to building a better defense on the way

One reason is IOWA’s early out in every post season tournament when we get run out if the gym by a lower seeded team.

last yr Oregon hung 56 on iowa in 1H and shot 56% for game and iowa had TWO NBA players in that team.

the definition of insanity is doing the same things in the same way and expecting different Results

 

[HawkRugged17]

Defense good tonight.

 

[KcTo]

Unfortunately I have no idea how you'd know what you have when JO is out there. So far against teams no where near the level we'll be playing he's been foul prone on defense, and lost on offense. We'd all like to see him be a solid contributor this season, BUT wishing for it ain't going to make it so.......

Josh has only played 15 minutes, mostly in garbage time, so it’s really impossible to accurately judge anyone when aaustin ash shoots it every time,
to be fair, I think he’s got to play in 4-5 minute stretches with 1st or 2nd team to tell.

recall he played well v Kofi last year in that role…?

 

[KcTo]

Yeah, in no way would he be beneficial to Iowas defense.

Right now he's lost.

Again, Ogundele has only played in garbage time, so it’s difficult to say what he capable given that level of chaos at that time of the game.

recalling he played last yr vs Kofi and played him well, and now he’s got 10 more months of conditioning and skills development

I think Ogundele’s size will be imperative to winning versus the big posts in the B1G in addition to the ability to absorbs 5 fouls in that role. We saw Cincinnati beat ILlinois with Bigs vs Kofi, and Ogundele brings that capability.

 

[SI_NYC]

Ulis
Perkins
Connor
Murray
Murray or Rebraca

You have to have JoeT. He’s menacing to opposing ball handlers.

 

[KcTo]

You have to have JoeT. He’s menacing to opposing ball handlers.

i think they are really pretty interchangeable…

but will give the edge to JoeT when it comes to pure defensive fearlessness…
i also think Perk brings this too…

and therefore I recommend starting them both…

 

[RocknRollface]

Again, Ogundele has only played in garbage time, so it’s difficult to say what he capable given that level of chaos at that time of the game.

recalling he played last yr vs Kofi and played him well, and now he’s got 10 more months of conditioning and skills development

I think Ogundele’s size will be imperative to winning versus the big posts in the B1G in addition to the ability to absorbs 5 fouls in that role. We saw Cincinnati beat ILlinois with Bigs vs Kofi, and Ogundele brings that capability.

Cinny was triple teaming Kofi.

When they played him one on one with their big to start he was going through that guy with ease.

Kofi has bad hands and can't pass, double teams are his weaknesses.

JO is a foul a minute type of player right now.

 

[KcTo]

Cinny was triple teaming Kofi.

When they played him one on one with their big to start he was going through that guy with ease.

Kofi has bad hands and can't pass, double teams are his weaknesses.

JO is a foul a minute type of player right now.

i do see IOWA being effective like Cinncy using Ogundele as the primary defender and then having elite defenders like the Murray’s, Perk, and JoeT all to provide the double team, while remaining play effective scramble D.

i think you will see that Ogundele is < 1 foul/minute, given more playing time

 

[Lighting Hawk]

You have to have JoeT. He’s menacing to opposing ball handlers.

I like Joe on D but I think he’s more of an iso D guy which I also like. But he doesn’t funnel as well as Ulis IMO and Ulis is bigger and stays in front of his man pretty well. Idk I would take either one of them honestly it was a toss up

 

[RocknRollface]

i do see IOWA being effective like Cinncy using Ogundele as the primary defender and then having elite defenders like the Murray’s, Perk, and JoeT all to provide the double team, while remaining play effective scramble D.

i think you will see that Ogundele is < 1 foul/minute, given more playing time

I hope you're correct and I'm wrong.

 

[RocknRollface]

I like Joe on D but I think he’s more of an iso D guy which I also like. But he doesn’t funnel as well as Ulis IMO and Ulis is bigger and stays in front of his man pretty well. Idk I would take either one of them honestly it was a toss up

It would be nice if they could be on the court together at times to really get after the ball pressure and try to speed the game up against someone like a Wisconsin.

 

[ICWestfan]

No Pmac in this discussion?

 

[RocknRollface]

No Pmac in this discussion?

Hes not really much of a defender.

 

[Ronman]

I'm pretty sure last night when coming out of a TO, we put Ulis, Perkins, both Murrays and Rebraca on the floor and Bobby remarked on the radio that this was a lineup he was very interested in seeing.

 

[KcTo]

I'm pretty sure last night when coming out of a TO, we put Ulis, Perkins, both Murrays and Rebraca on the floor and Bobby remarked on the radio that this was a lineup he was very interested in seeing.

And I think JoeT and Ulis are near interchangeable, but his point is that an optimized lineup needs to contain Kris and Perk

 

[paladinhawk]

Dickenson is better than either of them and he struggled against a smaller team aggressively doubling him the other night.
....

Its not quite the problem you guys think it is when you can effectively double and you gain allot in other ways by staying quicker.

Not sure that "Iowa" and "effectively double" belong in the same sentence. I would love to be proven wrong...

 

[KcTo]

Hes not really much of a defender.

I might suggest tha PMac is a poorer interior defender than both Murray’s, Rebraca, and for sure in the post Ogundele.

 

[HawkRose]

Small Ball Lineups
JT, Perkins, Sandfort, Murray, Murray is the lineup I want to see more of. Sandfort's D has been pretty impressive and with him and Kris in the game you have enough 3-point shooting on the other end.

BIG Lineups
JT, Perkins, Murray, Murray, Rebracha

 

[KcTo]

Not sure that "Iowa" and "effectively double" belong in the same sentence. I would love to be proven wrong...

I would agree in most past years and lineups .

I’m positing that surrounding Ogundele with help side shot blockers like the Murray’s, and ball hawking, ball raking elite defenders like Perk and JoeT, will create “effective doubling“ on any direction that those Big B1G centers turn.

these guys aren’t going To be standing on the perimeter and watching like JoBo, CJ, did last year.

 

[RocknRollface]

Not sure that "Iowa" and "effectively double" belong in the same sentence. I would love to be proven wrong...

I guess I don't understand why you don't think Iowa would be able to effectively double?

 

[DodgerHawki]

I would agree in most past years and lineups .

I’m positing that surrounding Ogundele with help side shot blockers like the Murray’s, and ball hawking, ball raking elite defenders like Perk and JoeT, will create “effective doubling“ on any direction that those Big B1G centers turn.

these guys aren’t going To be standing on the perimeter and watching like JoBo, CJ, did last year.

The Iowa team needs to play against a real team. The defensive metrics so far against terrible teams are not good. The raw #'s have been decent for Iowa's D, but adjusted for the absolute horrific teams they have played so far it has them 80th in defense according to Pomeroy.

Iowa will likely struggle very hard to defend against teams with good big guys or those who attack the rim, or both. Yes, Keeg. Murray can block shots. He is awesome. But the game plan for every good team is going to be go at him over and and over to get fouls called on him. Once he gets 2, Fran will sit him.

Everyone can have an opinion on Ogundele. I would like to be optimistic, but I don't see it at all. He doesn't understand how to play, and he's nowhere near ready physically. Rebraca and Murray are going to need to play heavy minutes and somehow play good defense without fouling. Good luck with that.

 

[paladinhawk]

I guess I don't understand why you don't think Iowa would be able to effectively double?

JMO, but it seems like defense isn't a focus of Fran and his staff. According to KenPom 2016 (Woodbury, Gessell, Uhtoff, Clemmons) was the last time Iowa had a top 60 defense. Fran is a smart guy, and maybe he will adjust his strategy this year. We will all know a lot more about this team in 2 weeks.

 

[BigAssTurkeyLeg]

I don't think that our defense is going to be stellar. I think what Fran wants is a disruptive defense on this team. We won't have great overall stats, but should cause a lot of turnovers, press a lot and wear teams down. This team is all about getting up and down in transition.

 

[KcTo]

The Iowa team needs to play against a real team. The defensive metrics so far against terrible teams are not good. The raw #'s have been decent for Iowa's D, but adjusted for the absolute horrific teams they have played so far it has them 80th in defense according to Pomeroy.

Iowa will likely struggle very hard to defend against teams with good big guys or those who attack the rim, or both. Yes, Keeg. Murray can block shots. He is awesome. But the game plan for every good team is going to be go at him over and and over to get fouls called on him. Once he gets 2, Fran will sit him.

Everyone can have an opinion on Ogundele. I would like to be optimistic, but I don't see it at all. He doesn't understand how to play, and he's nowhere near ready physically. Rebraca and Murray are going to need to play heavy minutes and somehow play good defense without fouling. Good luck with that.

“…Everyone can have an opinion on Ogundele. I would like to be optimistic, but I don't see it at all. He doesn't understand how to play, and he's nowhere near ready physicall…..”

I‘m not sure how anyone can make this statement (others have said same) when hes near or leading the team in rebounding and blocked shots / possession. (tied With Kris ans 2nd in blocked shots/ possession behind Keegan)

so far Ogundele is grabbing 22% of the missed shots,but yet “he’s nowhere near ready…”

how can we say that?

 

[BigAssTurkeyLeg]

“…Everyone can have an opinion on Ogundele. I would like to be optimistic, but I don't see it at all. He doesn't understand how to play, and he's nowhere near ready physicall…..”

I‘m not sure how anyone can make this statement (others have said same) when hes near or leading the team in rebounding and blocked shots / possession. (tied With Kris ans 2nd in blocked shots/ possession behind Keegan)

so far Ogundele is grabbing 22% of the missed shots,but yet “he’s nowhere near ready…”

how can we say that?

Because people on this board love to jump to conclusions about any player who isn’t perfect.
They would bitch about Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson if they had played for Dr. Tom.