I love Hawkeye basketball. I do not follow the NBA at all. My only concern about your sons going to the league too early would be are they physically ready. I have seen a lot of players in my 73 years that were really good players but when the other team is allowed to play very physical without getting fouls called it has taken less physical players out of the game. Maybe the NBA does not let this type of play go on but if they do are Keegan and Kris ready for this or do they need to really build their bodies to get ready to play the NBA game? I hope the answer is that skilled players are able to play the game without having to adjust to having the heck beat out of them every night. You should be really excited about the twins future but it is just natural for fathers to worry about our kids health and future. I hope they get some really good advice and all their dreams come true.
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- Thread starter PHawkKenyon
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Kenyon....love the family, love your basketball game, love your kids basketball and I love basketball too. Grew up in Iowa playing the game religiously because dad was my basketball coach and on those very cold winter Iowa days....we had free access to the gym....thank god!! It got me out of the house and not a better place to be. Just a great sport, the best to play on any given court at any given time.
That said, nothing to add that others haven't already said...it's a no brainer really. I know it's going to happen for Keegan and Kris. Thanks for posting all the DME Academy vids too...I watched them all and damn Keegan and Kris were good as soon as I could figure out who is who?
Posted this many times on these boards.
PS...loved the one practice video you posted...omg. 3 shot after 3 shot after 3 shot those two were making from every spot behind the 3 line. Ya can't make that talent up.
You had to not drink BB much to not see the length and the talent. And thank you Fran McCaffery for seeing the talent way ahead of too many other BB minds....shame of any of those people missing this including fans who make a living or have thoughts about BB.
I just posted this in another thread and I know there is a lot of talk about Keegan leaving early and rightfully so but I want to stay focused on the task ahead with this season.
We need to play well and win these next 2 games...and finish 10-3. Then beat the Terps in IC on 1/3 before we head up to an important road game at the Kohl Center on 1/6. And not to get ahead of ourselves too far but let's see how this team plays/responds and Keegan leads the team healthy with what will certainly be a lot of attention to try and shut him down?
One request and you know this better than anyone else......ask Keegan and Kris to tell this team be ready to smack back, get after it, and play with a ton of attitude, stay connected and focused.....
They can do this and can't wait to watch it happen. Let's make this NCAA tourney.....best of luck and holiday wishes!
That said, nothing to add that others haven't already said...it's a no brainer really. I know it's going to happen for Keegan and Kris. Thanks for posting all the DME Academy vids too...I watched them all and damn Keegan and Kris were good as soon as I could figure out who is who?
Posted this many times on these boards.PS...loved the one practice video you posted...omg. 3 shot after 3 shot after 3 shot those two were making from every spot behind the 3 line. Ya can't make that talent up.
You had to not drink BB much to not see the length and the talent. And thank you Fran McCaffery for seeing the talent way ahead of too many other BB minds....shame of any of those people missing this including fans who make a living or have thoughts about BB.
I just posted this in another thread and I know there is a lot of talk about Keegan leaving early and rightfully so but I want to stay focused on the task ahead with this season.
We need to play well and win these next 2 games...and finish 10-3. Then beat the Terps in IC on 1/3 before we head up to an important road game at the Kohl Center on 1/6. And not to get ahead of ourselves too far but let's see how this team plays/responds and Keegan leads the team healthy with what will certainly be a lot of attention to try and shut him down?
One request and you know this better than anyone else......ask Keegan and Kris to tell this team be ready to smack back, get after it, and play with a ton of attitude, stay connected and focused.....
They can do this and can't wait to watch it happen. Let's make this NCAA tourney.....best of luck and holiday wishes!
I agree with you, and the stats you mentioned about how few kids ever have the chance to play in the NBA are all the more reason IMO to take the opportunity when it's there.
If Keegan and/or Kris have the opportunity to go pro and make life-altering coin, then I would never begrudge them that opportunity. For selfish reasons as a Hawk fan I would like to see them stick around for 4 years.
But the correct answer as I see it, is whatever makes them happy. If the NBA is what they want and they project out to being a high enough draft pick where their dreams can come true, I say go for it. I don't know a lot about these things, but if/when they are ready, why wait?
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Whatever Keegan's decision, I hope he winds up 100% satisfied with it.
Obviously as an Iowa fan, I would love to see him in a Hawk uniform for another year (or more), but that's just not going to be the reality. I am really concerned about next season even if Kris is back. We are going to need another scorer, so hopefully Patrick can step it up a notch. I would love to see McCaffery finally address the reality of the transfer portal and actually bring in a player that will address the void Keegan's loss will bring.
Obviously as an Iowa fan, I would love to see him in a Hawk uniform for another year (or more), but that's just not going to be the reality. I am really concerned about next season even if Kris is back. We are going to need another scorer, so hopefully Patrick can step it up a notch. I would love to see McCaffery finally address the reality of the transfer portal and actually bring in a player that will address the void Keegan's loss will bring.
I would absolutely be encouraging my son to go to the NBA if being drafted was likely.
You can always finish your degree with the professional money in the bank. You have the rest of your life.
Injuries happen often in basketball and a career altering injury, or even an injury at the wrong time (right before draft), can end your NBA career before it starts.
I've made the analogy before. If you had a job that paid minimum of $925,000 per year waiting for you after your sophomore year of college. But to get the job, you needed to skip your last two years of college. That job may or may not still be there in a year or two. 100% of the people commenting to stay would leave college for that job.
You can always finish your degree with the professional money in the bank. You have the rest of your life.
Injuries happen often in basketball and a career altering injury, or even an injury at the wrong time (right before draft), can end your NBA career before it starts.
I've made the analogy before. If you had a job that paid minimum of $925,000 per year waiting for you after your sophomore year of college. But to get the job, you needed to skip your last two years of college. That job may or may not still be there in a year or two. 100% of the people commenting to stay would leave college for that job.
As a Hawkeye Basketball fan I want nothing more than to watch the Murray Brothers play for 4 years. They are two of the best forwards we've had at Iowa. But the reality is if they are good enough for the show then they have to think of themselves first. I know both are team first guys but they should do what is best for them, and I am sure their coaches will support this 100%.
Kenyon, I think you already know the answer to your question(s). But it's nice that you offer. As a fan, my instinct is to be selfish and want 'every one of our guys in the past and current to stay. Chucks, I was still holding out hope that JoeW would give it one more year. Selfishly on my part.
You know as well as anyone there are no guarantees in whatever anyone decides.
Thanks to Fran in seeing what you saw in your sons' ... it has been great to watch your sons' play. Both are a shining example of never judge what a kid can do before they arrive on campus.
Good luck to Keegan & Kris in whatever their future holds for them. I have no doubt they will be very successful.
You know as well as anyone there are no guarantees in whatever anyone decides.
Thanks to Fran in seeing what you saw in your sons' ... it has been great to watch your sons' play. Both are a shining example of never judge what a kid can do before they arrive on campus.
Good luck to Keegan & Kris in whatever their future holds for them. I have no doubt they will be very successful.
The simple answer is no, I would not tell them to stay in college 4 years.
Don't get caught up in what people around here are saying - take it as a compliment that they want your boys around because they're *good*. Some of them were saying Garza and Wieskamp weren't ready and should stay another year!
Personally, if I were an NBA scout I'd be looking hard at both of them. Kris has played far less than Keegan, but his per-40-min and per-100-possession stats so far this year are right up there with Keegan's and among the best on the team. I think they're both first rounders, but we'll have to wait and see how the season progresses.
Another reason to jump at the opportunity to go to the NBA - delaying entering the draft could work against them since they're already older than most.
I think Kenyon has a pretty good handle on what's going on w/his kids! A healthy Keegan is a lottery pick. While we as fans want our team to be successful every player and parent have to do what's right for them. It's life changing money for a lottery pick that makes a team. While Kris might seem to have a ways to go look at the improvement from Keegan in 1 year. I expect Kris to blow up the same next year. Definitely has the confidence and the game, at least in my opinion. While I understand that Patrick and Kris play the same position, you need your best 5 players on the floor regardless. And Kris is one of our 5 best players, regardless of position. Hate to see Fran not getting him enough minutes.
I think a lot of people don't understand how much the NBA draft is focused on younger players with potential - they think a player needs to average like 18 and 8 and be fully filled out to be "ready".
Many of last year's picks averaged around 10 ppg and 5 rpg in college, but were chosen due to their long term potential and teams are willing to let them develop both physically and skill wise for 2-3 years before producing serious minutes in the NBA.
The NBA stats so far for the 2021 first rounders is here - there are only 10 players averaging over 8 ppg.
Keegan is not fully developed physically and can still be bullied down low by stronger players, and he has some refinement to improve his shooting percentage, range, step back jumpers, ball handling, post moves and many other aspects. However, just because he has room for growth does not mean he's not ready. He's clearly read to be drafted, as he should be a Top 10-15 pick. He may need a year or two to really make an impact but I think he's so good in so many areas that he can contribute to an NBA team much sooner than Garza or Wieskamp and would get minutes right away.
Whether he is mentally ready for the grind of the NBA and all it brings, relative to another year at Iowa, is a personal decision. But no Iowa fan would deny him the right to make either decision. I'm just happy he's in a position to have such great options in front of him.
Many of last year's picks averaged around 10 ppg and 5 rpg in college, but were chosen due to their long term potential and teams are willing to let them develop both physically and skill wise for 2-3 years before producing serious minutes in the NBA.
The NBA stats so far for the 2021 first rounders is here - there are only 10 players averaging over 8 ppg.
Keegan is not fully developed physically and can still be bullied down low by stronger players, and he has some refinement to improve his shooting percentage, range, step back jumpers, ball handling, post moves and many other aspects. However, just because he has room for growth does not mean he's not ready. He's clearly read to be drafted, as he should be a Top 10-15 pick. He may need a year or two to really make an impact but I think he's so good in so many areas that he can contribute to an NBA team much sooner than Garza or Wieskamp and would get minutes right away.
Whether he is mentally ready for the grind of the NBA and all it brings, relative to another year at Iowa, is a personal decision. But no Iowa fan would deny him the right to make either decision. I'm just happy he's in a position to have such great options in front of him.
My answer is it doesn't matter what the fans think. Most fans don't have the first clue who is or isn't ready for the NBA, anyway.
I'm sure Keegan will make the best decision for him. He owes no one anything. I have jokingly suggested it would be cool for Keegan and Kris to play another year together, but I know that may not be in Keegan's best interest.
At the end of the day, college is intended to open doors, not be a destination. If Keegan wants to jump to the NBA after this season, more power to him. Any decent Iowa fan who understands the window of opportunity in the League should support him and wish him well. I certainly do.
Every player has room for growth. Michael Jordan famously said, "The day I stop improving is the day I walk away from the game."
I'm not sure where you see Keegan not being fully developed physically. I think he is probably the perfect size right now for his game and future position in the NBA. If he puts on more weight, that could be more of a hindrance than an asset.
At this point, Keegan's athleticism is stellar. And I'm not seeing where he's getting "bullied down low." The kid scores at will down on the block as well as around the perimeter and anywhere else on the court. Maybe I should start drinking again, I don't know, because I'm definitely not seeing what you are.
it doesn't matter if fans don't think he's ready.
if he gets evaluated at the end of the season (which I am sure he will) and the NBA says he's a 1st rounder, he's gone and he's going to be a millionaire.
it's his decision and no one else's
on 1 hand you have hawkeyefan69 from HR who doesn't think that he's ready.
on the other you have NBA scouts and GM's.
honestly it's a toss up.
on the other you have NBA scouts and GM's.
honestly it's a toss up.
I guess I would say: you go to college to maximize your ability to fulfill a career of your dreams; if the professional talent recruiters of your profession deem you ready/deem you having potential to excel at the career of your dreams, and consequently want to invest heavily into you, then you're "ready" by their standards; if the earning potential of this specific career has a very finite window, then starting that clock as early as possible is probably beneficial; and finally, I imagine amazing memories will be made in the NBA and with his brother throughout life. Go get it!
It really depends on the signing bonus. For enough money on the signing bonus, which is guaranteed even if they don't make it, there is no reason to stay in school. Probably around 2M, they could take the signing bonus, pay the taxes, invest the rest, an literally be fairly well set for life. Then go back to school and get a degree. Anything above that in the NBA is gravy.
This is the problem in general society today. Who is a few people and why do they matter? Yahoo presents news from message boards because a few people posted things. I listen to Iowa beat reporters/fan sites make up content because they”hear” a few people say things to act like there is some story just to create content. When In actuality 1 random person willing to send a tweet means nothing. It’s not like they represent anyone. It’s likely there are thousands of people that could care less for every one person making a negative tweet/comment.
The only question here is does the nba scouts think he’s ready and do you. You go to college to get a job. You have far more expertise and contacts with expertise than anyone here. Do we have an irrational tie to the decision. Yes, which makes our opinions of no consequence.
I never excelled beyond 9th grade basketball…. Murrays are a smart family and will make the right choice for them. It’s watching out for the agents, scouts etc that could lead you astray.
So hard to make an NBA team. Look at Garza… working is ass off … as is Megan Gustafson. If mentally prepared of the possibility of being shipped overseas to play ball… that’s something to take into consideration as well…
Hell, like a car, athletes only have so many miles in them before shit starts to go south. Go make that money and set your self up for life …
So hard to make an NBA team. Look at Garza… working is ass off … as is Megan Gustafson. If mentally prepared of the possibility of being shipped overseas to play ball… that’s something to take into consideration as well…
Hell, like a car, athletes only have so many miles in them before shit starts to go south. Go make that money and set your self up for life …
Not a chance. I would encourage them to live their dream on the biggest stage possible when possible if they have that kind of talent.
As I said in a previous post, Keegans footwork is amazing, and he will be 22 come August.
He is a young man, not a kid out of high school. He is ready if he chooses to go.
Of course ultimately your families decision, and you guys do what is best for you. People should support it no matter what it is.
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I have a kid playing Division III right now and he played in some really good AAU tourneys in LA...against a ton of Power 5 players...and we were immersed in that world for a number of years. I think most people don't realize everything that goes into being an NBA player...and the rarity it is. You have to have that continuous improvement drive, and an especially serious mental toughness. Not all kids are mentally ready to go to the NBA even after a few years in college...look at all the busts that have happened or guys that don't make it despite the athleticism and talent. The kids that make it and excel have a resiliency that I'm almost shocked by...and a confidence that is really God given in my view.
I'm not qualified to speak for Kenyon here...he knows his kids better than anyone. The only reason I wouldn't send them to the NBA as soon as possible, is if I thought they would benefit from another year in a more supportive environment (Iowa) from a maturity standpoint, physically & mentally (confidence). Once you are in the NBA...you are in.
I just think if you think they are ready...you send them right away...if all the draft metrics (1st round/early second) are there...plus the financials.
I'm not qualified to speak for Kenyon here...he knows his kids better than anyone. The only reason I wouldn't send them to the NBA as soon as possible, is if I thought they would benefit from another year in a more supportive environment (Iowa) from a maturity standpoint, physically & mentally (confidence). Once you are in the NBA...you are in.
I just think if you think they are ready...you send them right away...if all the draft metrics (1st round/early second) are there...plus the financials.
So you're a better authority on NBA readiness than actual NBA scouts? Where do you scout?
At the very least your boys should take the opportunity of an NBA evaluation if available. If the league says it’s time, then they have a decision to make. I’m certain you’re going to give them great advice but ultimately it’s their own decision to make, they’re adults after all.
It would disappoint me to see them go without exhausting their eligibility at Iowa, but that’s my own selfishness shining through and the fact that I’m not an NBA fan anymore means I’ll only catch their highlights at the next level if that’s where they land. Regardless, I’ll always be a big fan of you and your boys and their decision to be Hawkeyes and thanks for the memories!
It would disappoint me to see them go without exhausting their eligibility at Iowa, but that’s my own selfishness shining through and the fact that I’m not an NBA fan anymore means I’ll only catch their highlights at the next level if that’s where they land. Regardless, I’ll always be a big fan of you and your boys and their decision to be Hawkeyes and thanks for the memories!
@PHawkKenyon how often do you think back to your college days? How much do you cherish those days?
Since your K and K are, well partly you, emotionally and consciously. I think your afterthoughts about college and going on the play pro, would probably be true for your boys as well.
If they don't like school work, they don't like school work. Nothing you can do about that though.
Since your K and K are, well partly you, emotionally and consciously. I think your afterthoughts about college and going on the play pro, would probably be true for your boys as well.
If they don't like school work, they don't like school work. Nothing you can do about that though.
I don't know if they are ready to gro pro or not. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that those young men will be betting on themselves. Only they know when they will be ready attempt the endeavor. The parents job is obtain the best, unbiased information on their situation. Good and bad. And then try to prepare them for all contingencies. Then you roll the dice.
It's not about liking school work, it is about them having a dream to play in the NBA and there could be an opportunity to do that sooner than later. I have a great memories from my playing days, but I also knew I would be a 4 year player. They have the physical tools, basketball IQ and commitment to be NBA players. If I did, I would have left early as well. They are 10+ credits ahead of where they should be, BECAUSE WE VALUE EDUCATION. They are smart kids. We have valuable "team members" who are helping us through this process of becoming a professional. I have invested in having good people around all of us to work through this process. I work for a fortune 500 company and I run a region that produces $30m in revenue for my company. I am thorough if anything when it comes to making sound business decisions. This business decision for my boys will be based on how they are evaluated and what is best for them, the University of Iowa and the men's basketball team.
He’s fine against most players, but still needs strength against the type of player that can body him on the drive and in the post. He can get pushed off his line on the drive and off his spot down low at times. Big 10 teams are more likely to have these than most of the teams were playing.....and the NBA has a lot more.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/twsn.net/2021/12/2022-nba-draft-scouting-notebook-november-edition/amp
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Yes. Last mock draft I saw had Keegan as the 10th pick in the 1st round.
My POV is that if you look at the physiques of the dudes playing in the NBA and then look at the physiques of most non-freak specimens like Zion, there is a huge gap. As another point of reference, check out the rosters of G League teams--all have guys who were touted as next-level talents. There are success stories of guys who played their way on to NBA rosters, but they are the exception, not the rule.
I think players like Keegan have the most to gain from sticking around for a couple years, maybe even all 4, to develop physically before testing the NBA waters. His stock will rise as he fills out and being the "man" on a team will acclimate him to being the focal point of defenses. Keegan is mature beyond his years and has an excellent support structure around him, which a lot of kids who make the jump don't have.
I think the benefits of entering the NBA at one's physical prime outweigh the cons of going too soon and not maximizing your potential. Getting a guaranteed contract as a high draft pick would obviously change the narrative here, so maybe test the waters like JW did, get the feedback and make the decision to stay or go at that point.
I think players like Keegan have the most to gain from sticking around for a couple years, maybe even all 4, to develop physically before testing the NBA waters. His stock will rise as he fills out and being the "man" on a team will acclimate him to being the focal point of defenses. Keegan is mature beyond his years and has an excellent support structure around him, which a lot of kids who make the jump don't have.
I think the benefits of entering the NBA at one's physical prime outweigh the cons of going too soon and not maximizing your potential. Getting a guaranteed contract as a high draft pick would obviously change the narrative here, so maybe test the waters like JW did, get the feedback and make the decision to stay or go at that point.
I'd say PHawk has a handle on this one. There's still 2/3rds of the season to play. Plenty of time to take a view. Hard to turn down the money, the prestige and all that goes with playing professional sports if there's a realistic chance of making a team, and you're not just chasing the dream a year too early.
Think these boys will have topflight advice and parenting. Really don't foresee a slicky agent pulling one over on either parents or children. It's not like they have to buy cars or houses for the parents. Enviable position for Keagan and Kris. A good deliberative team and the luxury of a good deliberative process. From what we've seen thus far couldn't happen to nicer kids.
Ironic and fun scenario. Keegan leads the B!G in scoring goes to the NBA and Kris leads the B!G in scoring next year. Has that ever happened, brothers in back-to-back years? That would be cool.
Think these boys will have topflight advice and parenting. Really don't foresee a slicky agent pulling one over on either parents or children. It's not like they have to buy cars or houses for the parents. Enviable position for Keagan and Kris. A good deliberative team and the luxury of a good deliberative process. From what we've seen thus far couldn't happen to nicer kids.
Ironic and fun scenario. Keegan leads the B!G in scoring goes to the NBA and Kris leads the B!G in scoring next year. Has that ever happened, brothers in back-to-back years? That would be cool.
someone once put it like this. If you're an art history major and someone offers you to be president of the Met with an insane salary to go with the job after your sophomore year do you turn that down?
Two things come to my mind when I read this. One is Ronnie Lester and his knee injury that ruined his professional career. Second is Vince Carter the greatest player to come from Daytona Beach. He left UNC after his junior year (1998) to start a 22 year NBA career. It was obvious from the beginning he would be making millions yet he went back to UNC and received his degree three years later. I once asked his mother, Michelle a former teacher, how she convinced him to do that. Her answer was Vince knows how much I value education. I have no doubt the right decision will be made.
The boys are already 21 years old, I wouldn't blame them if they want to jump to the NBA. Honestly the best thing for Kris might be for Keegan to go after this year so Kris has a chance to be the guy. With Keegan around it's harder for Kris to get the playing time he needs. There just aren't enough minutes available for Kris. Especially next year with bringing in two guards and losing only one. The 1, 2, and 3 positions are pretty full. That leaves the 4 and 5 for Kris.
