Maybe we should be complaining about his inability to scramble in those situations and not his aggressiveness.
Why did Gilman shoot?
- Thread starter CatCoach
- Start date
Well, Gilman had finished one takedown in 3.75 matches this year, and Fix had scored more points than Gilman (by far) off Gilman's shots, so yes it was objectively a terrible strategic decision. If he just takes center and holds position for a minute, there was zero evidence to suggest Fix was going to be able to generate his own points.
Where'd you get your percentages from? Making up numbers doesn't give any more credence to your argument.
Percentages aside, if Gilman didn’t take a shot then we would still be waiting on Fix to take a leg attack. He had nothing to threaten Gilman with other than counters.
Also, that still wasn’t a takedown in freestyle for Fix. Rule requires he pass behind 3 points of contact to get the points and Gilman never let go of the leg.
Honestly I wonder if the Yianni debacle made the jury gun shy because if they overturned it then there were only 5 seconds left because of the ongoing scramble that happened after the 2 was called.
Honestly I wonder if the Yianni debacle made the jury gun shy because if they overturned it then there were only 5 seconds left because of the ongoing scramble that happened after the 2 was called.
There’s been a whole lot of talking considering this guy summed it up early in the thread. Like the scorpion and the frog; it’s his nature,
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I haven’t seen much comment on it. I assume the FRL guys will discuss tomorrow. In the broadcast Pyles seemed kind of surprised it wasn’t overturned. I have seen Nomad refer to it as a questionable takedown and right when it happened he tweeted “here we go again.” So I assume it was a reference to what happened the week before.
As a competitor, Mark Perry was a master at not outsmarting himself out of a lead/winnable match. I hoped when he became coach, he would add this dimension to the Hawks and HWC.
In all the Gilman Fix matches, Gilman shoots and when he doesn't score right away, he hopes for a stale mate. The problem is Fix never feels like he's out of the chance to score, is constantly moving, and eventually counters for his own points. Gilman/Brands/Perry fixed the problem in match two. Someone forgot the game plan in match three.
Because that is what the Gman does and he is darn good at it. Go ahead and underestimate him going forward, he will thrive on that.
If you go back in history, Gilman should be a 2X NCAA Champ. He lost to Moisey and never should have lost to him the year NATO ended up winning and Gilman does well with NATO and then he lost to Cruz giving up a late TD after dominating everyone the entire year and now he makes several mental errors in his series with Fix. If he wrestles smart, he is probably a 2X NCAA Champ and makes another world team. Shooting with time running out on the shot clock was a 3 pt. swing and shooting late in the match with the lead against someone that really doesn't have a strong shot was an idiotic move. I am disappointed for Gilman and the program. This was his shot to keep the momentum and now he and Lee will have to square off multiple times versus the possibility of a Hawkeye sitting in the finals and Lee having to earn his way to see Gilman for a best 2of3 series. It really was a major error for him and the program. It will be interesting to see how this plays out now that the two of them will assuredly have to meet in multiple events leading into the trials next year.
Gilman seems to have matches like this every once in awhile where he makes mental mistakes. The flip side to this is it was obvious that Gilman was trying to win with his offense. In the U.S. Open, it was pretty much the same scenario...Gilman had 4-4 criteria with 30 seconds left and looked content to defend to the end. Of course, Fix got to his offense and scored. I am sure this weighed heavily on his mind in that third match. If he scores, then we are lauding him as the prototypical Iowa guy who keeps shooting even with a lead while Gable is in the stands smiling at the legacy He created.
Not pointed at you Descat but many on here have complained for years that Iowa guys do not go to their offense late or take risks in these types of situations. So yea, Gilman got burned on a questionable takedown. I think where Lee is going to have edge is that he knows how to finish against the scrambly types in wrestling positions whereas its just not Gilman's forte.
IAchief32, I agree with you that offense wins, but mat strategy is also a component of a series and in this instance and on this day, all of Fix's points were coming from Gilmans shots. Gilman had earned the lead, Fix had not showed the ability to create his own offense. This is one time, I think you hand fight and hold the center for 20 seconds... that's all I'm saying. I'm disappointed for Gilman, it was a great opportunity that he let go. A smarter match and he's in the drivers seat...
Also to be fair, I have not seen the actual footage, but my previous comment still holds true based on the commentary here. If he executes he most likely seals the deal and wins the match. Then its brilliant.
Agressiveness is great, and certainly there is a fine line between aggression and situational awareness at the end of matches. That said, I'll take agressive every time and let the chips fall where they may. It's a hell of a lot harder to instill aggressiveness into someone, so if they have it, let her fly!
With push out rules and last person to score criteria and what not, that 1 point lead can go up in smoke pretty quick. Finish it the next time, then we're golden.
They commented on it in the show today. Basically their take was that it isn’t in the rule book that you have to be behind 3pts of contact. Well, if that is the case than my reading of this rule is certainly off and it is strange that officials don’t give the 2 there normally.
2 Points:
“To the wrestler who overcomes and then controls his opponent by passing behind (three points of contact: two arms and one knee or two knees and one arm or head).”
Page 29 - https://unitedworldwrestling.org/sites/default/files/media/document/wrestling_rules_a_0.pdf
Again, maybe my understanding is off but the part I quoted says to be two you must control the opponent by passing behind 3 points of contact so I’m not on board with it being a takedown per the book.
Either way, nothing can be done about it but it would be nice to get clarification and if all officials called that position the same as it happens often.
I have to guess that Fix was not going to let the clock run out without putting together a flurry to try for takedown. I am also guessing that Gilman figured he had a better shot of winning off his shot than letting Fix initiate a flurry of his own. To say that Fix had not shot and he would not shoot is kind of silly. Fix did take Gilman down at the US open off his own shot.
Sometimes things do not work out. Someone has to lose and unfortunately for Gilman, this time it was him.
Sometimes things do not work out. Someone has to lose and unfortunately for Gilman, this time it was him.
I also want to point out that Gilman is a quick injury away from being back in the starting lineup. He needs to stay frosty and be ready.
All this talk about him and Lee squaring off and those potential match ups being horrible from the program are incredibly premature.
All this talk about him and Lee squaring off and those potential match ups being horrible from the program are incredibly premature.
Why is more focus on Gilman taking a shot instead of the wrong call being made? Gilman got screwed over on that call. Regardless of his mental mistakes the correct call would have him on the world team.
Please explain why the call was wrong. From what I see, Fix is behind two arms, and the hips/right leg. From the pasted rules above, sounds like the officials got it right.
Fix turns into him, covers hips and purposely moves his left hand to go under the arm. Now, the video FLO had doesn't necessarily show that angle, but the ref is right there and it looks like he gets the both arms under. Doesn't matter if Gilman has the leg or not.
It very much does matter in freestyle, at least as that position is typically called. It would be similar to calling the quadpod 2.
Based on what rule set? Not the one that was supposed pasted above. Is that one wrong?
There's not a situation at this year's final x that Gilman was in a similar situation, screwed out of points, or was even in a questionable situation other than the takedown that was given to Fix. So which match are you referencing? Regardless, if the refs missed points, you can take it up with them. I'm simply discussing the two awarded to Fix at the end of match 3.
Are you talking about when Gilman was behind the arms but Fix was in a quad-pod (Only hands on the mat)? If that's what you are referring to that is not a takedown in freestyle like it is folkstyle. Freestyle you have to have 3 grounded points (2 hands and a knee or hip). Having the opponents leg doesn't matter if 3 supporting points are down and you are behind them.
it's toward the end of match 2. Gilman hooks the ankle and is behind both arms while Fix has his arm on Gilman's knee. Gilman finishes it eventually.
He was not behind both arms at that moment. He was awarded the two when he had the proper technique for a takedown. Nothing to see here.
i'll stand corrected that he wasn't behind both arms...but based on the definition of "Behind three points", why wasn't this a take down?
i'll stand corrected that he wasn't behind both arms...but based on the definition of "Behind three points", why wasn't this a take down?
Yep. Behind both legs and head which only counts when it is on the mat I believe.
Too lazy to do a shot of Fix’s last TD on Gilman but Fix was never behind 3 points.
i'll stand corrected that he wasn't behind both arms...but based on the definition of "Behind three points", why wasn't this a take down?
I'd say your still shot does make it debatable, but I wouldn't say he's behind the head, and when watching it in motion, he never gets behind prior to being rewarded points.
I think both Kayla and Fix got hosed at pretty much the same time. Kayla stayed on her offense the whole match while Fix gave the Japanese guy maybe a little too much respect. Americans cannot let things go to criteria or a review because it will not work out well for us.
I won't be disappointed if Fix doesn't medal. If Spencer is going to compete next trials, I'd much prefer if Fix doesn't have the major advantage of getting to sit until the finals.
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Well he’s done so there is that. The Japanese guy, who did not look good all tourney ended up getting beat next match.
I get the positioning for 2020 but it’s tough not to root American. I think a major beef is that Fix is Flo’s golden child...I think 3 dudes picked him to win it in what was going to be an insanely tough weight the year before the Olympics. While Fix has the resume of a solid up and comer, he did not place at U23s in 2017 and was a bronze at junior worlds last year. Beating Gilman 2 of 3 is an excellent feather but Gilman threw a fat one down the middle into his wheelhouse.
Fix has some excellent tools...so quick on reattacks, an inventive scorer, dangerous from any position...but what he does not seem able to reliably generate his own offense in neutral against the good ones. I thought it may have been a folk style issue but he has reverted in free. He used to be like that but than in one junior worlds, he destroyed the field.
Prepare to not be disappointed because Fix was eliminated from repechage possibility quite some time ago
Vodka
Vodka, Fix is out and didn’t medal. I struggle with whether to root for Fix. Seems like a good guy, but he took The spot at 57kg from an Iowa wrestler, so I’m conflicted.
Vodka, Fix is out and didn’t medal. I struggle with whether to root for Fix. Seems like a good guy, but he took The spot at 57kg from an Iowa wrestler, so I’m conflicted.
Seems like a good guy? Hmmmm. I hope the national wrestling community says an Iowa wrestler is a good guy if we hit him with half a rear naked at the end of a match. I hope we add a face mush to go with it.
Nobody but Iowa fans are going to be upset with that because it happened to Desanto. He reaps what he sows. If Desanto was still at drexel you would have probably been cheering it on as well.
