Would you trade Iowa State

[IGot5onIt]

I see where this thread has sort of turned into a -what kid has better stats, or if you can win with a roster full of Iowa kids. While I personally think that ISU does have better overall talent, and I'm not basing this off of ESPN, Rivals, or any other player recruiting rankings, nor am I looking at individual stats; I watch the games. I also see where someone had posted Solomon wouldn't start for Iowa this year, and I totally agree with them, but I also feel strongly that Garza would not start for ISU, maybe ever. The BIG12 conference is full of teams, built on speed, length, and athleticism; maybe not always the best "basketball" players, recruiting the state of Iowa heavily would probably not be in Prohm's best interest. This plays into Iowa's favor, because although the state is not overflowing with talent most years, we generally do have few highly regarded, talented kids. IOWA must land these guys, but they desperately need to start picking up some more athletic guys, or scrap this whole up and down style of play- it can't be done with the type of recruits Fran is getting (& yes I know he has gone after some PG's each year, but missed)... Carton is a must get, but I'm not too confident we land him, nor am I too confident Fran will be here by the time he enrolled in college anyway.

 

[relishingwinning18]

Garza is also a bottom 10% defender at his position in the NCAA per Synergy. And he might not be playing more minutes because he can't play more minutes. If he's so efficient, why isn't he getting more shots and getting the ball more? Lard was the best player on the court and ISU went to him time after time in a win over the #8 team in the country Saturday.



Lard is basically a wash with Cook on stats in conference play, and he's a freshman. Advanced stats show Lard is outperforming Cook. I'd love Cook on the ISU team but if I had to pick one I know which one I'd want.

You wouldn't take Weiler-Babb, who is on pace to be only the second major conference player to average 12/7/7 in a season in the last 20 years, all while playing through injury? Ok.

Garza isn't playing more minutes because of Fran's gigantic rotation. Whole different story. But let's not use "mights" when doing comparisons on things we don't know. And yes, his defense sucks right now.

"If he's so efficient, why isn't he getting more shots and getting the ball more?" He's just not playing as many minutes as Lard, stats are affected by how much you play, whether you want to admit that or not.

Why do you only want to talk about 7 of ISU's 18 games when comparing stats. It's a little bizarre. Does the whole season not count? NWB is playing 38 mpg! That is crazy.
I would take Cook over Lard and Babb, correct. They are all good players.
If we were drafting teams, I'd go:
1. Wiggington
2. Cook
3. Babb
4. Jackson

 

[relishingwinning18]

Marble? Really? HIs dad was a legend at Iowa. It's not like Fran went and got some kid from Michigan to come play in Iowa. IF he would have lost Marble is would have been shocking. Not to mention I think Marble was a 3 star recruit. Also Jok was basically Iowa States to lose until Left got in trouble contacting him when he should not have. That left Jok with Drake and Iowa as his offers. So Fran beat out Drake. Woody? Really? He was terrible. Gessell got worse every year.

You struggle at this.

 

[doughuddl2]

You struggle at this.

JFC you're talking to a wall. I wouldn't take the time to refute all his delusions.

 

[Iafootballfan]

I don't think there is an argument to have anything but the following for a 1st Team "All-Iowa" at this point.

1. Babb
2. Jackson
3. Wigginton
4. Cook
5. Lard

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Wiggington, Lard, and Babb will all be nice returning pieces, but Young is just an ok player, that I wouldn't take over any of our starting bigs now or next year. Mariok was a role player at VA, could be a nice piece as well. But if the top 7 at Iowa are all average, I'm not sure how you think all of ISU's guys are that much more talented. Jackson, their #2 scorer will be gone, as will Beverly and Brase.

Wiggington is a very good player, and will be even better next year. Moss doesn't compare. Peterson already wrote an article with some quotes, hinting he's thinking about leaving after next year at the latest. Would be nice if he left this year.

Lard - 22.8 mpg: 12.1 ppg - 7.0 RPG
Garza - 19.1 mpg: 10.9 ppg - 6.3 RPG
Pretty similar if you ask me, and both freshman. If Garza played Lard's minutes, he'd average more PPG and RPG. Not a knock on Lard, I think he's a good player, just like I think Garza will be.

Babb - 37.8 mpg: 12.1 ppg - 7.4 RPG - 7.4 APG
Bohannon - 30.5 mpg: 13.3 ppg - 2.2 RPG - 4.8 APG. Better 3p% and FT%, while a bit lower in FG%.

Going to your statement in bold above, what are you using to justify this? Out of ISU's top 8 players, they play 3 Seniors and 2 Juniors. While we play 1 Junior and no Seniors.
Recruiting class:
247 - has Weiskamp 50th, Griffin 89, Horton-Tucker 111(much higher in Rivals lately to 31), Haliburton 142, Frederick 230, and Conditt 242.
Rivals - Tucker 31, Weiskamp 42, Griffin 85, Haliburton 149, and the other two are not ranked.
ESPN - Weiskamp 71, Horton-Tucker 76.

I guess in summary, it seems like we are trying way harder to nullify any promise our team shows in the future, and I'm not sure why. Many are willing to say positive things about other teams players, while many of our players show the same promise. Maybe it's because we've watched our players more, thus have noticed more of the bad things they do. I'm really not sure.

Fair point about age/class status. I intended to mean experience. Admittedly, I'm not intimately familiar with ISU's roster other than seeing recruiting rankings, etc., but I'm pretty confident most of the kids playing for ISU right now had gotten minimal PT for the Clones prior to this year. Moss, Bohannon, Pemsl, Kriener, and Cook all got plenty of game time last season. So, from that point of view, Iowa has more experienced players.

I think the recruiting rankings speak for themselves. While I agree Luka Garza has plenty of upside and that Jordan Bohannon has done well being thrown into the role he has been, from top to bottom Iowa talent-wise doesn't stack up with most P5 teams, including their counterparts two and a half hours west.

I'm just not seeing where you think Iowa stacks up talent-wise with Iowa State. I agree, especially in a turd-sandwich season like this, it's easy to magnify the flaws with the current roster, but even from a bigger picture standpoint Iowa players have a much lower ceiling in terms of overall talent and ability. The other point I will make is we can't just compare offensive numbers. Defensive capabilities and athleticism are equally relevant to the discussion, and I think that's where you see the greatest deficiencies that are missing in the stat line of how many points/assists does a player average? I mean, that's great Garza is scoring 11 points per game. How many points is he giving up? That's awesome Jordan Bohannon has such a high percentage of free throws/3 points made. How about what percentage his opponent is shooting? Seems to me opposing teams do pretty well with FG % when playing the Hawkeyes. See my point?

 

[HemiHawk]

Ahh, another Iowa-ISU pissing match. They never get old.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

I don't think there is an argument to have anything but the following for a 1st Team "All-Iowa" at this point.

1. Babb
2. Jackson
3. Wigginton
4. Cook
5. Lard

Yeah, I'm no math whiz, but having 1/5 players in the top 5 means not many of your players are on the same level. Fair conclusion?

 

[HawkLogic]

I see where this thread has sort of turned into a -what kid has better stats, or if you can win with a roster full of Iowa kids. While I personally think that ISU does have better overall talent, and I'm not basing this off of ESPN, Rivals, or any other player recruiting rankings, nor am I looking at individual stats; I watch the games. I also see where someone had posted Solomon wouldn't start for Iowa this year, and I totally agree with them, but I also feel strongly that Garza would not start for ISU, maybe ever. The BIG12 conference is full of teams, built on speed, length, and athleticism; maybe not always the best "basketball" players, recruiting the state of Iowa heavily would probably not be in Prohm's best interest. This plays into Iowa's favor, because although the state is not overflowing with talent most years, we generally do have few highly regarded, talented kids. IOWA must land these guys, but they desperately need to start picking up some more athletic guys, or scrap this whole up and down style of play- it can't be done with the type of recruits Fran is getting (& yes I know he has gone after some PG's each year, but missed)... Carton is a must get, but I'm not too confident we land him, nor am I too confident Fran will be here by the time he enrolled in college anyway.

you nailed it. If Fran wants to have core roseter based on in-state kids, you don't press opposing teams and make playing half court defense optional.

With Alford, LIckliter, and Fran...it seems the easiest thing for Iowa coach is to just load up on Instate kids and never have to do any work on recruiting trail. You end up UNI roster but the kids going to Iowa don't have the chip on their shoulder's like UNI kids, and don't play good defense/value the ball.
Everyone wants to run like they are in NBA.

 

[relishingwinning18]

Fair point about age/class status. I intended to mean experience. Admittedly, I'm not intimately familiar with ISU's roster other than seeing recruiting rankings, etc., but I'm pretty confident most of the kids playing for ISU right now had gotten minimal PT for the Clones prior to this year. Moss, Bohannon, Pemsl, Kriener, and Cook all got plenty of game time last season. So, from that point of view, Iowa has more experienced players.

I think the recruiting rankings speak for themselves. While I agree Luka Garza has plenty of upside and that Jordan Bohannon has done well being thrown into the role he has been, from top to bottom Iowa talent-wise doesn't stack up with most P5 teams, including their counterparts two and a half hours west.

I'm just not seeing where you think Iowa stacks up talent-wise with Iowa State. I agree, especially in a turd-sandwich season like this, it's easy to magnify the flaws with the current roster, but even from a bigger picture standpoint Iowa players have a much lower ceiling in terms of overall talent and ability. The other point I will make is we can't just compare offensive numbers. Defensive capabilities and athleticism are equally relevant to the discussion, and I think that's where you see the greatest deficiencies that are missing in the stat line of how many points/assists does a player average? I mean, that's great Garza is scoring 11 points per game. How many points is he giving up? That's awesome Jordan Bohannon has such a high percentage of free throws/3 points made. How about what percentage his opponent is shooting? Seems to me opposing teams do pretty well with FG % when playing the Hawkeyes. See my point?

If we don't stack up talent wise, why was this a 6 point game at their place? Also, the argument to me, was more referencing having hope for the coming years. He was saying we don't have any hope, because we are recruiting high level recruits from our state. Maybe because they are white, I really don't know, but recruits in each teams pocket right now, are very similar.

 

[Eyewejun]

I'm a Cyclone fan, but have seen most Hawk games. I feel like Fran has very good talent, he is just using them wrong. Bohannen and Cook would start for just about anyone, and the cast of players in the top seven is good. Fran simply plays too many players, and there is no synergy between players. I personally think Iowa's talent is as good as Iowa States, just play 7 or 8 players, period. And quit chewing their ass all the time. If Holberg coached this Iowa team, they would be in the hunt for an NCAA berth.

Cook would most likely start at ISU, but I doubt Bohannon would. Jackson and Bo would split time.

 

[Eyewejun]

Wiggington, Lard, and Babb will all be nice returning pieces, but Young is just an ok player, that I wouldn't take over any of our starting bigs now or next year. Mariok was a role player at VA, could be a nice piece as well. But if the top 7 at Iowa are all average, I'm not sure how you think all of ISU's guys are that much more talented. Jackson, their #2 scorer will be gone, as will Beverly and Brase.

Wiggington is a very good player, and will be even better next year. Moss doesn't compare. Peterson already wrote an article with some quotes, hinting he's thinking about leaving after next year at the latest. Would be nice if he left this year.

Lard - 22.8 mpg: 12.1 ppg - 7.0 RPG
Garza - 19.1 mpg: 10.9 ppg - 6.3 RPG
Pretty similar if you ask me, and both freshman. If Garza played Lard's minutes, he'd average more PPG and RPG. Not a knock on Lard, I think he's a good player, just like I think Garza will be.

Babb - 37.8 mpg: 12.1 ppg - 7.4 RPG - 7.4 APG
Bohannon - 30.5 mpg: 13.3 ppg - 2.2 RPG - 4.8 APG. Better 3p% and FT%, while a bit lower in FG%.

Going to your statement in bold above, what are you using to justify this? Out of ISU's top 8 players, they play 3 Seniors and 2 Juniors. While we play 1 Junior and no Seniors.
Recruiting class:
247 - has Weiskamp 50th, Griffin 89, Horton-Tucker 111(much higher in Rivals lately to 31), Haliburton 142, Frederick 230, and Conditt 242.
Rivals - Tucker 31, Weiskamp 42, Griffin 85, Haliburton 149, and the other two are not ranked.
ESPN - Weiskamp 71, Horton-Tucker 76.

I guess in summary, it seems like we are trying way harder to nullify any promise our team shows in the future, and I'm not sure why. Many are willing to say positive things about other teams players, while many of our players show the same promise. Maybe it's because we've watched our players more, thus have noticed more of the bad things they do. I'm really not sure.

It is all in the company you keep, and THT's team has played top programs from all over the country. The just lost by 2 to the team with the top rated recruit in the country. I heard about how highly rated Gesell and Woodbury were from Iowa schools, and we saw what they became. THT will be a 5 star before he enrolls because he is performing at the highest level.

 

[IGot5onIt]

Wiggington, Lard, and Babb will all be nice returning pieces, but Young is just an ok player, that I wouldn't take over any of our starting bigs now or next year. Mariok was a role player at VA, could be a nice piece as well. But if the top 7 at Iowa are all average, I'm not sure how you think all of ISU's guys are that much more talented. Jackson, their #2 scorer will be gone, as will Beverly and Brase.

Wiggington is a very good player, and will be even better next year. Moss doesn't compare. Peterson already wrote an article with some quotes, hinting he's thinking about leaving after next year at the latest. Would be nice if he left this year.

Lard - 22.8 mpg: 12.1 ppg - 7.0 RPG
Garza - 19.1 mpg: 10.9 ppg - 6.3 RPG
Pretty similar if you ask me, and both freshman. If Garza played Lard's minutes, he'd average more PPG and RPG. Not a knock on Lard, I think he's a good player, just like I think Garza will be.

Babb - 37.8 mpg: 12.1 ppg - 7.4 RPG - 7.4 APG
Bohannon - 30.5 mpg: 13.3 ppg - 2.2 RPG - 4.8 APG. Better 3p% and FT%, while a bit lower in FG%.

Going to your statement in bold above, what are you using to justify this? Out of ISU's top 8 players, they play 3 Seniors and 2 Juniors. While we play 1 Junior and no Seniors.
Recruiting class:
247 - has Weiskamp 50th, Griffin 89, Horton-Tucker 111(much higher in Rivals lately to 31), Haliburton 142, Frederick 230, and Conditt 242.
Rivals - Tucker 31, Weiskamp 42, Griffin 85, Haliburton 149, and the other two are not ranked.
ESPN - Weiskamp 71, Horton-Tucker 76.

I guess in summary, it seems like we are trying way harder to nullify any promise our team shows in the future, and I'm not sure why. Many are willing to say positive things about other teams players, while many of our players show the same promise. Maybe it's because we've watched our players more, thus have noticed more of the bad things they do. I'm really not sure.

I see what you're saying about posters being able to say positive things about other team's players, specifically ISU in this case, and not so much about the Hawks. I actually watch a lot of ISU bball (about to watch this ISU/TEX game right now), and some of the things that stick out to me the most, is one, the athleticism that ISU teams have, pretty impressive in my opinion. Two, they seem to be having fun, and look loose and have a good flow to their game. Lastly, playing in Hilton looks incredible on TV (never been in person), but that's beside the point.
My point is that I rarely see the same type of confidence, or flow with this IOWA team. They really just look disinterested half the time. I mean there's clearly an issue this year, and if you've watched all the games it's easy to see. We have talented players, to a certain point. Cook, very talented, Bohannon, very talented, just asked to do too much, which takes away from his strengths. I also think Garza, although vertically challenged, knows how to play the game, and will be the leader of this team by his JR year... Moss, I just don't know. Flashes of talent, then disappears. Then there's certainly some guys on the team who may be better served playing down a notch. I personally don't like to ever blame the players unless it's just a case of laziness & lack of hustle. It's not their fault they were recruited and jumped at the chance to play in the BIG... The roster mess, rotation mess, and the game plan disasters aren't on the players. I personally would not be upset with a coaching change, and I'm not just basing that off this year's record.

 

[ketelmeister]

Cook would most likely start at ISU, but I doubt Bohannon would. Jackson and Bo would split time.

I’d take Bohannen. Great shooter .

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

If we don't stack up talent wise, why was this a 6 point game at their place? Also, the argument to me, was more referencing having hope for the coming years. He was saying we don't have any hope, because we are recruiting high level recruits from our state. Maybe because they are white, I really don't know, but recruits in each teams pocket right now, are very similar.

1. Why did Ohio State lose to Iowa by 30 points in football? I don't know. Regardless, I don't form opinions off one game.

2. As I stated in another thread, Iowa State put out a bunch of guys this year with little to no experience at this level. Outside of Garza, pretty much everyone in Iowa's rotation has at least a full season of college basketball under their belts. Makes a huge difference.

3. Hope of what? Being better than 1-7 (or whatever Iowa is currently at) in conference play? That's silly. Of course Iowa will be better. And yes, of course, fans can get a little crazy when a team is losing this badly. Bigger picture, though, the future of Iowa basketball under Fran doesn't seem to have a ceiling higher than middle-of-the-pack in conference play and an early exit in the NCAAs. I think that's likely as good as it will ever get with Fran. The question becomes, is that good enough? To many Iowa fans, it isn't.

4. I often joke that Iowa needs to get more brothas on the team. While I think to a large extent that's true, the greater issue is athleticism. Aaron White, Jarrod Uthoff, even Mike Gesell, were all fairly athletic. I don't think anyone complains about those guys on the team, or a Matt Gatens (going back a few years), and I doubt too many fans will complain about Weiskamp. With that said, Iowa fills their roster with too many kids who aren't athletic enough/good enough to compete at this level. While Wagner is certainly athletic enough, he's really not B1G Ten caliber (at least in basketball) IMHO. Dom Uhl, after a brief blip on the radar to be a serviceable role player when he was an underclassman, isn't really worth the scholarship, either. Baer, Ellingson, Kriener, and Pemsl--while all have had their little moments here and there--belong in the Missouri Valley.

So, yes, you have a healthy mix of both white and black players who IMHO don't belong in the B1G Ten. I know that sounds harsh, but it is what it is. Will Iowa get better? Sure, they can't get much worse. I think the bigger issue you have to wonder about, though, is Fran McCaffery and his ability to keep the team together and striving to get better. I certainly don't have the inside scoop, but it doesn't seem like there is a lot of hunger right now in this team to get better and to compete. I mean, c'mon, you give up 50 points by halftime to Purdue and you commit a total of 7 personal fouls for an entire game, it's pretty hard to make a case the effort is there even if the talent isn't. Right now, effort and psychology are trumping any and all concerns with talent. And that's what's most alarming. Has Fran lost this team? I don't know. Doesn't look good.

 

[MGOHAWK2]

If I am going to waste my time trading I’m going to trade with Duke, Kentucky, Villanova, Kansas, etc.

Shocker

 

[brokenarrow73]

Incoming talent and coaches? Basically right now the future of the program with current players and future players. Would you trade Iowa State? Just curious because as a Cyclone fan I think our future is sitting pretty. I know there is some discontent because the season is not going well with Iowa right now but there are some talented players on the way. So would you trade uniforms on current players and future players as well as the coaches? Don't give the "He wants to be a Hawk" thing. I am saying if everyone wanted to be a Hawk.

no

 

[HerkyFan]

Yep, and Iowa has Pierre Pierce and Anthony Hubbard. (I don't know how far back you mean with "a long line of legal incidents.")

I was too young to remember Sam "Mack the Knife," although the story of him robbing a Burger King where his picture was hanging up is obviously comedy, and Iowa State has certainly had their fair share of dandies after Mack, but I'm not sure where exactly you are seeing Iowa State as more "thuggish" than other schools. Sorry, I just don't see it.

To be honest, the mentality you just demonstrated reeks of sour grapes. It's the same type of mentality Iowa State fans had when Hayden Fry was kickin' their team's ass year in and year out. Be real: If the shoe was on the other foot and Iowa was winning, you'd have no problem with transfers and giving kids a "second chance." That's where the real problem lies. Iowa fans take issue with Iowa State winning and Iowa not. And for the record, Iowa State's starting five was not mostly comprised of players who had been kicked off of previous teams.

The fact remains isu has consistently taken players tossed from the team at their previous school or a player asked not to return like BDJ.

 

[Eyewejun]

I’d take Bohannen. Great shooter .

Same players

 

[Eyewejun]

The fact remains isu has consistently taken players tossed from the team at their previous school or a player asked not to return like BDJ.

You are always clueless

 

[RocknRollface]

What Hawks would start/play for the Clones, now?

Probably just Cook. They're better than us at every other position.

Weiskamp is the only one.

Cook shows up once a month. Isu's bigs are much better at everything other than Cooks occasional dunks.

They rebound and play D and dont turn the ball over 5 times a game.

 

[Iafootballfan]

If we don't stack up talent wise, why was this a 6 point game at their place?

Lemme guess, you think we had more talent than Iowa State last year because we beat them...

 

[HerkyFan]

You are always clueless

Clown fans always ignore what they don’t like. The fact remains Chris Allen and Korie Lucious were kicked off the team at MSU only to be welcomed with open arms in lames. BDJ was told not to come back to UNLV and also welcomed with open arms at isu.

Of course you will tell us how it really is like all good clown fans do. Will you be better than all the clown fans that have preceded you and give us links proving my assertions are “clueless”? I am betting no, but let’s see how you respond.

Hey I see isu lost to the refs again tonight. Well at least according to those on cryclown fanatic that is.

 

[RocknRollface]

I would not be surprised if ISU is a top 25 team next year. Babb, Wiggington, Lard and Young back. Add the Virginia guard transfer who is an above avg player and the talented incoming frosh has to have ISU fans excited. Wiggington and Lard are big time ballers. Prohm is showing everyone what a rebuild is suppose to look like. Dude can recruit and knows he needs to go out on the transfer market to plug holes and prevent long-term rebuilds or gigantic dropouts. Even when they're rebuilding he has ISU playing competitive basketball.

Iowa had a competitive rebuild going last year.

Then instead of addressing the actual needs of the team with some ballhandlers, Fran added 2 more bigs and threw the whole thing out of whack.

 

[RocknRollface]

I'm a Cyclone fan, but have seen most Hawk games. I feel like Fran has very good talent, he is just using them wrong. Bohannen and Cook would start for just about anyone, and the cast of players in the top seven is good. Fran simply plays too many players, and there is no synergy between players. I personally think Iowa's talent is as good as Iowa States, just play 7 or 8 players, period. And quit chewing their ass all the time. If Holberg coached this Iowa team, they would be in the hunt for an NCAA berth.

Bohannon would actually fit in allot better with ISUs roster where he could just spot up and play the other teams worst guard on D.

Cook is just a mystery, he doesn't play very hard and he makes a ton of careless mistakes.

They'll be games where he looks unstoppable then games where he just stands around and doesn't even leave the ground.

I dont doubt another coach/culture could get allot more out of him.

 

[RocknRollface]

You don’t see why a rival school might take shots at Hoibergs waiver wire strategy? It would be one thing if they were legit transfers, but most got kicked off their previous team.

Hoiberg took a big gamble to jumpstart his program.

And it worked, now they can recruit good highschool kids.

Ill always give guys willing to take calculated risks props.

 

[RocknRollface]

I see where this thread has sort of turned into a -what kid has better stats, or if you can win with a roster full of Iowa kids. While I personally think that ISU does have better overall talent, and I'm not basing this off of ESPN, Rivals, or any other player recruiting rankings, nor am I looking at individual stats; I watch the games. I also see where someone had posted Solomon wouldn't start for Iowa this year, and I totally agree with them, but I also feel strongly that Garza would not start for ISU, maybe ever. The BIG12 conference is full of teams, built on speed, length, and athleticism; maybe not always the best "basketball" players, recruiting the state of Iowa heavily would probably not be in Prohm's best interest. This plays into Iowa's favor, because although the state is not overflowing with talent most years, we generally do have few highly regarded, talented kids. IOWA must land these guys, but they desperately need to start picking up some more athletic guys, or scrap this whole up and down style of play- it can't be done with the type of recruits Fran is getting (& yes I know he has gone after some PG's each year, but missed)... Carton is a must get, but I'm not too confident we land him, nor am I too confident Fran will be here by the time he enrolled in college anyway.

Both conferences are built on speed and athleticism. Its why Iowa is getting blown out every night.

We have two guys in our starting lineup that are a couple of the worst defenders ive ever witnessed in any level of college basketball.

I would take Young in either conference over Iowas center because I firmly believe its more important to get defense and rebounding out of that position.

 

[RocknRollface]

If we don't stack up talent wise, why was this a 6 point game at their place? Also, the argument to me, was more referencing having hope for the coming years. He was saying we don't have any hope, because we are recruiting high level recruits from our state. Maybe because they are white, I really don't know, but recruits in each teams pocket right now, are very similar.

I think it probably has something to do with the results on the court. Ya know, ISU beating ranked teams, Iowa getting blown out every night. Little stuff like that.

Isu essentially had a new team this year, Iowa returned a ton of starting minutes.

Having hope with this group is something that defies logic IMO. Fran has to seriously rearrange the roster and even then his willingness to sacrifice defense for offense still gives me very little hope.

 

[RocknRollface]

Clown fans always ignore what they don’t like. The fact remains Chris Allen and Korie Lucious were kicked off the team at MSU only to be welcomed with open arms in lames. BDJ was told not to come back to UNLV and also welcomed with open arms at isu.

Of course you will tell us how it really is like all good clown fans do. Will you be better than all the clown fans that have preceded you and give us links proving my assertions are “clueless”? I am betting no, but let’s see how you respond.

Hey I see isu lost to the refs again tonight. Well at least according to those on cryclown fanatic that is.

Only an idiot would turn down Allen and Lucious IMO, when your as bad as Isu and Iowa had both been.

Now, BDJ, that was to much and he ended up not even mattering.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

Why do you only want to talk about 7 of ISU's 18 games when comparing stats. It's a little bizarre. Does the whole season not count? NWB is playing 38 mpg! That is crazy.
I would take Cook over Lard and Babb, correct. They are all good players.
If we were drafting teams, I'd go:
1. Wiggington
2. Cook
3. Babb
4. Jackson

Because conference games are the ones that matter, and that the competition is consistently good. Iowa and ISU's NonCon SOS's are around 300. It's not an accurate gauge on how good players on when they beat up on patsies. Plus, Lard's role changed significantly since the start of the season.

If we were drafting, I'd actually take JBo over Jackson. I like Jackson a lot but he's not as consistent as JBo. But that said, they are basically the same player.

I would take Lard 4 over anybody else though.

 

[David1979]

I would say Cook and Lard are about the same and Lard is getting better. Prior to this season he had not played in a real game for almost 3 years.

I am not saying don't take the best. I am saying the only real players besides cook that Fran has got have been Iowa Kids. You can't win in the big 10 or big 12 with just kids from Iowa. Not enough talent. So you look to outside of Iowa and Fran has got nothing. If you think Iowa is on the same path right now as Iowa State. Good for you. However, most of your own fan base would not agree with you and would agree Iowa State is in much better position.

That is not true about Lard. He was playing in games last year in a prep school for first semester before making it to ISU. And before that he was playing for a HS in Texas.

 

[David1979]

Also, Jackson v. Bohannon is a tough one. I think I would lean Jackson because he plays better defense but Bohannon is a better passer than Jackson. If I was making a starting 5 for the Iowa teams I would go

Babb
Jackson
Wigginton
Cook
Lard

Off the bench I would have Bohannon, Baer, Young.

 

[Eyewejun]

That is not true about Lard. He was playing in games last year in a prep school for first semester before making it to ISU. And before that he was playing for a HS in Texas.

He played HS in Cajun country and enrolled at a school in Houston last year but I don't think he played.

 

[David1979]

He played HS in Cajun country and enrolled at a school in Houston last year but I don't think he played.

yeah, he played. He played seven games at Pro Vision Academy after transferring from Landry-Walker High School … averaged 16 points, nine rebounds and two blocks per game at Pro Vision Academy

 

[David1979]

Bohannon would actually fit in allot better with ISUs roster where he could just spot up and play the other teams worst guard on D.

Cook is just a mystery, he doesn't play very hard and he makes a ton of careless mistakes.

They'll be games where he looks unstoppable then games where he just stands around and doesn't even leave the ground.

I dont doubt another coach/culture could get allot more out of him.

I agree about Bohannon. He is basically a younger Jackson. I think he could be a better shooter than Jackson as well.
I think with Cook is that he has a limited offensive game and some teams do a good job of taking what he wants to do away and then he just doesn't know what else to do. If he could develop a consistent jump shot, he would be a stud every night. It would also help him to have more shooters so that it would be hard to double him.

 

[relishingwinning18]

Lemme guess, you think we had more talent than Iowa State last year because we beat them...

No, and not relevant.

 

[relishingwinning18]

It is all in the company you keep, and THT's team has played top programs from all over the country. The just lost by 2 to the team with the top rated recruit in the country. I heard about how highly rated Gesell and Woodbury were from Iowa schools, and we saw what they became. THT will be a 5 star before he enrolls because he is performing at the highest level.

Gesell was never the same shooter after breaking his wrist. He was a very good freshman for us and good player overall. Woody never gets any credit, and I get it because he wasn't this prolific scorer, but I'd take his defense on this team right now all day every day.

 

[relishingwinning18]

Because conference games are the ones that matter, and that the competition is consistently good. Iowa and ISU's NonCon SOS's are around 300. It's not an accurate gauge on how good players on when they beat up on patsies. Plus, Lard's role changed significantly since the start of the season.

If we were drafting, I'd actually take JBo over Jackson. I like Jackson a lot but he's not as consistent as JBo. But that said, they are basically the same player.

I would take Lard 4 over anybody else though.

"Because conference games are the ones that matter, and that the competition is consistently good. Iowa and ISU's NonCon SOS's are around 300. It's not an accurate gauge on how good players on when they beat up on patsies. Plus, Lard's role changed significantly since the start of the season."
Phew, could you please tell the NCAA our Cayman's tournament didn't matter, I'd like to forget that one. I don't honestly think you believe this, you just know that Lard has been playing much better the last few games, and therefore his stats are better, thus supporting your argument more.

Garza's role has also changed in the last 6 games of the big ten as well. He was really struggling at the end of the non-conference schedule and benched for large periods. You probably weren't watching, as I wouldn't blame you one bit.

Over the last 6 big ten games after our non-conference schedule:
Garza is averaging 22.67 mpg: 10.5 ppg - 5.7 rpg - 55% FG - 86%FT - 1 apg - 1 blk pg - 2.16 fouls - 1.33 turnovers.
Lard during big 12 plays is averaging 29.63 mpg : 14.4 ppg - 9 rpg - 62% FG - 50% FT - .375 apg - 3 blk pg - 3 fouls - 2.25 turnovers.
Garza, surprisingly has been one of our bright spots.
Now, if you ask me who looks the part: Lard all day.

 

[RocknRollface]

I agree about Bohannon. He is basically a younger Jackson. I think he could be a better shooter than Jackson as well.
I think with Cook is that he has a limited offensive game and some teams do a good job of taking what he wants to do away and then he just doesn't know what else to do. If he could develop a consistent jump shot, he would be a stud every night. It would also help him to have more shooters so that it would be hard to double him.

Bohhanon is one of the best shooters ive ever seen better than Jackson, his shot is effortless and he can hit well beyond nba range, problem is he cant get open and hes one the worst defenders ive ever seen on this level so its a trade off.

Cook is really easy to stop with double teams but to me his real problems are lack of effort / bball IQ. He should be able to get double digit rebounds every night and 10 pts just off rebounds and freethows. He spends way to much time standing and watching.

Its like if he cant get a dunk right away he losses interest.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

Phew, could you please tell the NCAA our Cayman's tournament didn't matter, I'd like to forget that one. I don't honestly think you believe this, you just know that Lard has been playing much better the last few games, and therefore his stats are better, thus supporting your argument more.

Actually, I'm very consistent year after year in that once we get into conference play I basically throw out noncon stats, because I care a lot more about how players play against Texas than I do Texas-Arlington.