WTT Senior Brackets out
- Thread starter LutherAce
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He's been banned multiple times from this board but always comes back.
I really don't understand the rules totally, but it sure seemed like Taylor was chasing him all over the mat and no passivity was called.
Fake?
Let me give you an example of fake. An entire wrestling community that prides itself on it's love and appreciation of wrestling but has grown so freaking bitter about their current position in the wrestling hiarchy they delight in the heartbreak defeat of a guy simply because he is a Penn Stater.
Then to take it to a higher level accusing the guy of cheating. Why? Because he is a Penn Stater. Your appreciation of wrestling is an example of fake.
I was a Penn State wrestling fan since Bill Koll was coaching. I was a fan when Lorenzo, Fritz and Sunderland were coaching. I will be a fan during and after the Sanderson era. The run we are on right now is a helluva lot of fun. One of the peripheral pleasures of Penn State's current success is the misery it causes certain petty little dudes like maybe yourself.
The guy who gets the bye has already won the qualifier and this is basically a last chance for guys who missed the qualifier or if they were screwed royally in the qualifier. They could just as easily have the results of the national tourney determine the representative. Why should they give the guy who won the earlier tourney a better chance to get beat. He has earned the right to sit.
Despite the success Brands has had and the fact he bleeds black and gold. If Taylor expressed an interest in the job now, more than half of the Hawk wrestling community would scream for the change.
Jts, we have had said that we want David in town but never to be head coach..On a different note. Cael did look bad yesterday, but he did go rub Cox head after the match 
that was nice of him!
that was nice of him!
I disagree with this statement. However, I am in the camp that believes David Taylor will make a fine coach whenever he decides to go that route.
While I don't agree with the cheating accusations, the exact same thing could be said about your entire wrestling community and their reaction after every time an Iowa guy loses and reacts far less demonstratively than your golden boy did.
Do I really need to pull up threads where many of you wished he was on your staff NOW? Hell, one guy stated he'd fire a current coach to make room for Taylor. You guys think I'm just go around making this stuff up??
Key word being a member of our "staff" not as head coach replacing Brands. You seem to have a way of rearranging facts to suit your intended hypothesis.
WTT Attendance:
DAY 1: 4,106
DAY 2: 4,622
Would Saturday only in Carver have matched or exceeded that of the total 8,728?
DAY 1: 4,106
DAY 2: 4,622
Would Saturday only in Carver have matched or exceeded that of the total 8,728?
I was sitting right above where Taylor was pointing and yelling and it looked like he was yelling at Bill Zadick. I don't know what beef he would have with Zadick?
I don't get the whining about Cox not being put on the clock either; he won by more than 1-2 points. Taylor shut down big time after the injury and looked like he was only going about half speed, so that's on him.
I don't get the whining about Cox not being put on the clock either; he won by more than 1-2 points. Taylor shut down big time after the injury and looked like he was only going about half speed, so that's on him.
Try reading what was initially said. I said when Brands goes through the Spencer Lee era without winning a national championship...not now. And if it would happen and you guys are crying for Brands to be replaced I wouldn't blame you one bit for wanting Taylor. If there is one "up and comer" out there that I feel could challenge Cael on the recruiting trail...in Pennsylvania specifically it's going to be David Taylor.
I have never said anything like this before, but had Gilman acted like Taylor at the end of the match it would have been on the cover of FLO and been topic #1 by Foley this coming Friday. Had Tom or Terry thrown a chair or the challenge bag at the end of the match it would have been the topic of a FRL...cover of FLO and a Friday article by Foley. Foley won't mention the behavior and FLO didn't highlight it on the website. I now see the bias that FLO has and how they treat PSU with a favored status. I like the guys at FLO, but they are human and have their favorites, both as teams and certain individuals. I have resisted this perspective and have not supported this stance until now. I hope that given the influence FLO can and does have that they can treat everyone in an objective and fair manner. Highlighting pros and cons the same despite program affiliation.
What you said and I quote, "Careful guys, when Brands goes "o-fer" during Lee era,David will be on most of your short lists to be the Hawks next coach.
Implying that the majority of Hawkeye fans would want him as their next head wrestling coach. I might add also stating that, "when not if" Hawkeyes win no titles while Lee is here. As I stated you have a way of misstating the things you need to in order to attempt to make a point.
What world have you been living in? Opposing fan bases have been doing this to Iowa for 30 years. Gilman runs into an opposing teams huddle for a handshake and we have PSU fans crucifying him, calling for the University of Iowa and the Big Ten to take action against this classless act. If an Iowa guy even sneezes the wrong way, we have PSU fans ripping on him and Iowa. Could you even imagine the reaction from PSU fans if Brands threw a brick, towel, and a chair? Or if Gilman got beat, and he started pointing at the ref and people in the crowd while kicking the challenge brick across the mat. The Internet would probably blow up. We'd have people calling for Brands to be fired, USA wrestling to suspend Gilman, and for the University to decry these classless acts.
The reality is this. If it was another set of coaches and a different wrestler, the majority of people wouldn't even care. Heat of the moment, part of the battle. Most wrestling fans understand this. They might not agree with what they did, but in the end it's no big deal. Since this was Cael and Taylor though, I must admit it makes me and others smile. All we have heard from PSU fans for the past few years is how much of class act Cael and Taylor are, how much fun they have, how great it is to be in and around that atmosphere, how they always win and lose with grace and honor, while simultaneously bashing every single act an Iowa guy or coach does.
Most of us had to be thinking about this all weekend. If held at Carver, attendance would have been well over 10,000 each day, and probably closer to 13,000+.
I have no problem with the Trials being moved around, but I do think that host sites should have to prove they can turn out big crowds. All of these guys deserve to compete on their biggest stages in front of a packed house, or close to it.
Imagine if these trials, with all of this great action, had been held in a nearly full Carver. The place would have been absolutely electric. That's great for the sport.
If other venues can produce the same kind of crowd, great. But I hope USA Wrestling takes note of which sites can turn out the fans and caters to them. This kind of tremendous action shouldn't be taking place in front of an Iowa City Duals-sized crowd. It needs a full house!
Not sure what made Taylor so mad (he had every chance to score). It's an emotional sport.
I'm still a big fan of his. I just think he needs to get to the HWC where he'll get the coaching to take him over the hump.
I'm still a big fan of his. I just think he needs to get to the HWC where he'll get the coaching to take him over the hump.
Hate to say it but you are spot on with your assessment of their behavior. Crickets on behalf of the fanbase is not a good look either. I think some apologies are in order
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bbwretler... Why must you reply to every PSU post that offends you? Especially when the guy you're arguing with is basically right? This message board was going crazy with 'bring in Taylor' just a few months ago after the Askren interview (even if it was the crazies that only post right after D1's). His premise: We would be ecstatic if Taylor was in Iowa City. Yes, we would (as an assistant).
Congrats to those enjoying Gilman's big day -- he really stepped up. Count me among those who underestimated his abilities.
As for BrickTowelChair-gate . . . I'm more disappointed in the execution than in the breakdown itself. If you're going to protest, let it fly, I say*. I would have much preferred a full wind-up and blast to the chest on the towel throw. The chair should have been left out of it. Too dangerous to use with any respectable effect.
* Not condoning or encouraging tantrums, but humans are humans, and losses of control -- if rare -- are forgivable. Especially when stakes are high.
As for BrickTowelChair-gate . . . I'm more disappointed in the execution than in the breakdown itself. If you're going to protest, let it fly, I say*. I would have much preferred a full wind-up and blast to the chest on the towel throw. The chair should have been left out of it. Too dangerous to use with any respectable effect.
* Not condoning or encouraging tantrums, but humans are humans, and losses of control -- if rare -- are forgivable. Especially when stakes are high.
Some on here try so hard to please the penn state people that come here. 99% of them have bad intentions. The ones you think are good were not good a few years ago. Their true colors will come out in the future just like classless Cael and rage wonderboy displayed. It takes some of you longer to figure it out. nitlioin and the others are obsessed with what Iowa fans think. This board occupies the majority of their lives. I don't have a care in the world what they are typing on their site. They are irrelevant.
Although this venue didn't sell as many tickets as they would in Iowa city, I thought the atmosphere was AWESOME! It was a pretty compact arena (kinda like US Cellular Center) so it got pretty loud in there. During a few of the finals matches they would turn the music up a little louder and the crowd were on there feet and would get louder. It was great! One other thing I thought was pretty cool is a ton of kids would run to the entrance during the finals to form a tunnel to slap the wrestlers hands. I'm sure it made for great memories for those kids. So that's a few reasons I enjoyed this venue, plus the wrestling was fantastic!
So where's the disconnect here between us? You basically just confirmed what I've been saying.
This is spot on. Everyone knows that this sport is grueling, heartbreaking, emotional, and often brutal. Yet, every time an Iowa wrestler does something in the heat of battle they are ripped along with the entire program and fanbase. Things are only issues to a large faction of wrestling fans if done by an Iowa wrestler.
Meanwhile, everyone in and around the Penn State program along with the media has pushed a narrative that despite the rigors and hard work required in this sport, Penn State is having so much more fun doing it. It's easy to act like you're humble, gracious, and having fun when everything is going your way, and all you're doing is winning. It's really been a brilliant PR campaign, and continues to pay big dividends for the program, so I guess you can't blame them for that. Yet one of the few times adversity arises they throw a complete fit. Almost every other program has dealt with more heartbreak than PSU over the last 7 years, and how many of them have thrown tantrums like that?
The fact is, they are a lot more like the rest of the wrestling world than the kool-aid drinkers would like to believe. Some of our fans take glee watching the meltdown, because we are able to see through the BS and all that comes with it. Every move Iowa makes is belittled, demeaned, disparaged, and downplayed by a large group of Penn State fans. We then have another faction of Penn State fans that patronize us, and are fake friendly as long as everything is going their way. You can all continue to report back on every anti-PSU post that is made on this message board, and characterize our fans and program by the actions of the minority, because you seem to be having a lot of f** doing so. However, please do us the favor and stop pretending that your board and fans are somehow above the pettiness that often occurs here. You're no different, and in many instances worse.
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That's all I'm saying so thank you. Just wanted to point out that although now you might dislike Taylor, one day it's possible you're going to love him. Funny how things work out like that. As with the case of Gilman. I now love the guy while just a couple short months ago I had some unfavorable things to say about him. Mentioning that though, I'm sure there's quite a few here that hate the fact that some Penn Stater will get to enjoy the successes I now predict for him....That we somehow don't deserve to have him representiing us as well. To be honest though, I could see your argument there.... lol
You might be painting with a broad brush here. I don't think the majority of the fan base 'delighted' in the loss because of where Iowa is or because of his status as a PSU guy. The reaction has more to do with the incessant preaching of fun and an inability to see any faults with Cael. The double standard on how this type of behavior is addressed. Heart breaking? Indeed, worthy of that response? No. You are a fan of wrestling as we all are. Hopefully you will give me a simple answer to this yes/no question. Do you think that this behavior would be covered differently if it were Brands/Gilman involved?
Well thought out post and I agree with much of what you are saying. Having said that, if given a choice would you really change the perceptions that fans may have of your program. I really thought your fanbase reveled in the idea of "us against the world". Many of you seem to enjoy the hate Iowa gets from other fan bases. Is that something you would like to see changed? I look at Iowa as a "hard nosed" program with kids that bring a lunch pail to work and a lot of times get more out of their abilities ( through coaching and a never quit attitude) than some would have ever expected. That can be brutal and physical on the mat and because wrestling means so much to them will say or do some things off of it that others don't agree with.
A broad picture of the Iowa program has been painted by the rest of the wrestling world, and has been used with quite a bit of success against the Iowa program over the last several years. Millennials are a different breed and many false perceptions about the program have been hurting us. It's why Tom has started taking the time to make sure the world knows it's not just a room of robots. I'm happy with the title of being a tough, hard nosed program, but there is more to it than that.
I'll answer, yes...yes I do. Iowa was and still is the program everyone disliked because of their success. So yes, I think to draw more clicks, a negative spin towards Iowa would happen far more quickly than other programs including Penn State.
That's great -- glad to hear it. However, imagine that, TIMES 4. That's what you'd get in Carver.
