Year 19 for Hall of Fame Coach Hayden Fry? 7-5 w/ Losses to OSU, Mich, Wisc, N'w, Bowl game

[Franisdaman]

We are in Year 19 of the KF era. What would have year 19 of the Hayden Fry era looked like on this message board? I am guessing it would have been pretty ugly.

Note that the teams we are playing in 2017 don't look all that different from 1997. Back then, like now, we played weaker noncon games plus Iowa State. As you can see, we played Michigan 20 years ago so just slide Penn State into that slot (for 2017 comparisons) in the results that follow.

Results, Year 19, Hayden Fry:
W--N Iowa, 66-0
W--Tulsa, 54-16
W--Iowa St, 63-20
W--Illinois, 38-10
L--Ohio St, 7-23
L--Michigan, 24-28
W--IU, 62-0
W--Purdue, 35-17
L--Wisky, 10-13
L--N'western, 14-15
W--Minny, 31-0
L--Ariz State, 7-17


Why in year 19 of the Fry era were such mediocre results acceptable? Losing to Northwestern? Are you kidding me?

Who was the offensive coordinator back in 1997? Were you/other fans calling for his head too? I am guessing the answer is yes.

 

[iclone]

1) I remember Iowa fans being very disappointed in the results of that season given the talent on that team. Look at the point differential.

2) Since HF was gone the next year you could argue that the results were not accepted

 

[Franisdaman]

1) I remember Iowa fans being very disappointed in the results of that season given the talent on that team. Look at the point differential.

2) Since HF was gone the next year you could argue that the results were not accepted

and Hayden did not win 9 games every year and he had disappointing losses; people seem to forget about that

 

[IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life]

Year 20

3-8 and retirement

 

[TooMuchDumb]

We are in Year 19 of the KF era. What would have year 19 of the Hayden Fry era looked like on this message board? I am guessing it would have been pretty ugly.

Note that the teams we are playing in 2017 don't look all that different from 1997. Back then, like now, we played weaker noncon games plus Iowa State. As you can see, we played Michigan 20 years ago so just slide Penn State into that slot (for 2017 comparisons) in the results that follow.

Results, Year 19, Hayden Fry:
W--N Iowa, 66-0
W--Tulsa, 54-16
W--Iowa St, 63-20
W--Illinois, 38-10
L--Ohio St, 7-23
L--Michigan, 24-28
W--IU, 62-0
W--Purdue, 35-17
L--Wisky, 10-13
L--N'western, 14-15
W--Minny, 31-0
L--Ariz State, 7-17


Why in year 19 of the Fry era were such mediocre results acceptable? Losing to Northwestern? Are you kidding me?

Who was the offensive coordinator back in 1997? Were you/other fans calling for his head too? I am guessing the answer is yes.

Was Hayden being paid $5 mil./yr and running a jobs program for friends and family? Was Hayden ever in the 10th percentile for coaching salary? Link to Hayden's year 19 being "acceptable?" Does KF have cancer??

 

[BigSlick Suited]

Seven games with 30 points or more. That seems outrageous.

 

[Hawk-A-Doodle-Doo]

There were certainly concerns when we struggled with Northwestern after nearly toppling eventual national champion Michigan. But while 1997 Iowa may have had some tough losses, they also completely demolished the also-rans on the schedule.

Meanwhile, 2017 Iowa indeed has had similar results with a close loss to our most high profile opponent and subsequent disappointing performances against MSU and Northwestern. But we also trailed North Texas at halftime and didn't pull away until the 4th quarter, struggled with Illinois into the 4th quarter, didn't exactly manhandle a mediocre Wyoming team (all at home by the way), and needed overtime to beat ISU.

That's where the wheels of the comparison fall off.

 

[iowa surfer]

We are in Year 19 of the KF era. What would have year 19 of the Hayden Fry era looked like on this message board? I am guessing it would have been pretty ugly.

Note that the teams we are playing in 2017 don't look all that different from 1997. Back then, like now, we played weaker noncon games plus Iowa State. As you can see, we played Michigan 20 years ago so just slide Penn State into that slot (for 2017 comparisons) in the results that follow.

Results, Year 19, Hayden Fry:
W--N Iowa, 66-0
W--Tulsa, 54-16
W--Iowa St, 63-20
W--Illinois, 38-10
L--Ohio St, 7-23
L--Michigan, 24-28
W--IU, 62-0
W--Purdue, 35-17
L--Wisky, 10-13
L--N'western, 14-15
W--Minny, 31-0
L--Ariz State, 7-17


Why in year 19 of the Fry era were such mediocre results acceptable? Losing to Northwestern? Are you kidding me?

Who was the offensive coordinator back in 1997? Were you/other fans calling for his head too? I am guessing the answer is yes.

No but yes.Sorry.

 

[iowa surfer]

There were certainly concerns when we struggled with Northwestern after nearly toppling eventual national champion Michigan. But while 1997 Iowa may have had some tough losses, they also completely demolished the also-rans on the schedule.

Meanwhile, 2017 Iowa indeed has had similar results with a close loss to our most high profile opponent and subsequent disappointing performances against MSU and Northwestern. But we also trailed North Texas at halftime and didn't pull away until the 4th quarter, struggled with Illinois into the 4th quarter, didn't exactly manhandle a mediocre Wyoming team (all at home by the way), and needed overtime to beat ISU.

That's where the wheels of the comparison fall off.

Agree.apples and oranges.Agree.Maybe we win next week.

 

[Sett1997]

Year 20

3-8 and retirement

Yup, time for Kirk and family to go too.

 

[Franisdaman]

Just to be a devil's advocate, Fry won all of his nonconference games in year 19, just like KF.

It appears KF (in his year 19) will have similar results as Fry (in his year 19) in the conference games as well, where both lost a heart breaker to a blue blood (Michigan-Fry, Penn St-KF), both lost an agonizing game to N'western, and where Fry lost to both Ohio State and Wisconsin, KF's team will be the underdog vs Ohio State and Wisconsin.

Fry then lost the bowl game and we all know Iowa's recent struggles in bowl games.

Fry's Year 19 seems very similar to KF's Year 19.

Why were there so many ups and downs in Fry's first 19 years?

Why have there been so many ups and downs in KF's first 19 years?

Is it because it is much harder to win at Iowa than we are willing to admit?

Fry is a hall of Fame coach. Many say KF will be in the hall of fame as well.

 

[BigHawksFan]

We are in Year 19 of the KF era. What would have year 19 of the Hayden Fry era looked like on this message board? I am guessing it would have been pretty ugly.

Note that the teams we are playing in 2017 don't look all that different from 1997. Back then, like now, we played weaker noncon games plus Iowa State. As you can see, we played Michigan 20 years ago so just slide Penn State into that slot (for 2017 comparisons) in the results that follow.

Results, Year 19, Hayden Fry:
W--N Iowa, 66-0
W--Tulsa, 54-16
W--Iowa St, 63-20
W--Illinois, 38-10
L--Ohio St, 7-23
L--Michigan, 24-28
W--IU, 62-0
W--Purdue, 35-17
L--Wisky, 10-13
L--N'western, 14-15
W--Minny, 31-0
L--Ariz State, 7-17


Why in year 19 of the Fry era were such mediocre results acceptable? Losing to Northwestern? Are you kidding me?

Who was the offensive coordinator back in 1997? Were you/other fans calling for his head too? I am guessing the answer is yes.

If I could have that season again or this season, I'd take that one. At least they could score points!

 

[Hawkeye3087]

That Michigan game... Leading 21-7 at half-time on the road... Michigan goes on to win national championship... thanks for reminding me

There were definitely some fun moments with Timmy and Tavian. Damn those guys were good

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Hayden himself admitted he got old and conservative his last couple years at Iowa. He knew it was time to step down. Big difference.

I'm not going to be completely unappreciative of what KF has accomplished at Iowa, but this is by and large an apples and oranges comparison.

Oh, and while Hayden beat up on plenty of cupcakes in the non-conference schedule, he also played a lot of good teams in the non-conference throughout most of his tenure. He also didn't have multiple seasons of getting to skirt around playing Ohio State and Michigan.

 

[hawkeye54545]

I don't recall HF losing so many games against non power 5 schools like KF does. In fact, we used to give those schools a beat down. Now we either lose to them or it's still in doubt in the second half.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Some non-conference opponents Iowa played when Hayden was there:

1979: #3 Oklahoma, #7 Nebraska
1980: #6 Nebraska
1981: #7 Nebraska, #6 UCLA
1982: #3 Nebraska
1983: Penn State
1984: #12 Penn State
1987: #17 Tennessee
1988: Colorado
1989: Oregon
1990: #10 Miami (FL)
1992: NC State, #1 Miami (FL), #10 Colorado
1998: #17 Arizona

Please, do not compare non-conference schedules again between Kirk and Hayden.

 

[IC Hawks]

As the season unfolded, iirc, it became apparent Iowa was just one key position away from being very good.

This is just more forgivable. Just average QB play and I know we win the Michigan game ON THE ROAD. Can anyone imagine this team going into HV or the Shoe and winning or almost winning?

'97 is woulda-coulda-shoulda
'17 is same-ol', same-ol'

'97 is ... it happens
'17 is ... it happens too often

 

[JoelBittner]

Hayden turned around a dead Hawkeye program.
If Kirk could lead Rutgers to 3 Rose Bowls in 10 years I would call him Hayden's equal. But really, rotflmao at the thought of Kirk turning around any program. And I don't buy that Iowa in 99 is Rutgers in 2017.

 

[denmar81]

Hayden coached when there were higher scholarship limits . Reduction was done to level the playing field. Imagine what OSU and Michigan would do to the B1G if they could have 10 more 4 and 5 star players on the roster.

 

[Franisdaman]

why does everyone refuse to accept the fact that Hayden had up and down, extremely frustrating seasons, just like KF?

when assistants left (Barry, Bill Synder, etc) did he make some bad hires? Of course, if he did, no one would admit it. and why? because people tend to forget the negative stuff over time and just remember the good stuff.

 

[Franisdaman]

Hayden turned around a dead Hawkeye program.
If Kirk could lead Rutgers to 3 Rose Bowls in 10 years I would call him Hayden's equal. But really, rotflmao at the thought of Kirk turning around any program. And I don't buy that Iowa in 99 is Rutgers in 2017.

KF had to turn around a mess

Hayden lost all of those Rose Bowls

KF won a BCS game

 

[Franisdaman]

There were certainly concerns when we struggled with Northwestern after nearly toppling eventual national champion Michigan. But while 1997 Iowa may have had some tough losses, they also completely demolished the also-rans on the schedule.

Meanwhile, 2017 Iowa indeed has had similar results with a close loss to our most high profile opponent and subsequent disappointing performances against MSU and Northwestern. But we also trailed North Texas at halftime and didn't pull away until the 4th quarter, struggled with Illinois into the 4th quarter, didn't exactly manhandle a mediocre Wyoming team (all at home by the way), and needed overtime to beat ISU.

That's where the wheels of the comparison fall off.

So you are ok with the fact that Hayden's 19th team finished 7-5?

Will you be ok with KF's 19th team finishing 7-5?

That's where the wheels of your argument fall off.

 

[Franisdaman]

That Michigan game... Leading 21-7 at half-time on the road... Michigan goes on to win national championship... thanks for reminding me

There were definitely some fun moments with Timmy and Tavian. Damn those guys were good

Yet they finished 7-5!! Unacceptable!!! Fire them all!!!

 

[Franisdaman]

Hayden himself admitted he got old and conservative his last couple years at Iowa. He knew it was time to step down. Big difference.

I'm not going to be completely unappreciative of what KF has accomplished at Iowa, but this is by and large an apples and oranges comparison.

Oh, and while Hayden beat up on plenty of cupcakes in the non-conference schedule, he also played a lot of good teams in the non-conference throughout most of his tenure. He also didn't have multiple seasons of getting to skirt around playing Ohio State and Michigan.

Link to where Hayden admitted he got old and conservative? I don't recall that. Hope you have a link; otherwise it weakens everything you have to say.

And I disagree. Both coaches' 19th years look like apples and apples.

Fry struggled to win 7 games in his 19th season. Looks like KF will struggle to win 7 games in his 19th season as well.

Was Fry a bad coach, then?

 

[Franisdaman]

I don't recall HF losing so many games against non power 5 schools like KF does. In fact, we used to give those schools a beat down. Now we either lose to them or it's still in doubt in the second half.

I, and others in the past, would say that there is a lot more parity in college football today.

Otherwise, how does ISU win at Oklahoma? How does Troy win at LSU?

When Hayden coached, Oklahoma would have never lost to ISU.

Its a lot harder to win college football games now vs when Hayden coached

 

[StonesCat]

I think you can throw all the numbers arguments out the window. For those who are old enough to have experienced both tenures, I’d say most would tend to have a soft spot for a Hayden. It was just a much more interesting brand of football, and he was such a charismatic person, that the bad times were worth all the good. I’m sure there’s a good argument that maybe Kirk has done better in some certain things, but the style that’s dominated most of his years here doesn’t engender the same type of goodwill when it stumbles.

 

[Franisdaman]

Some non-conference opponents Iowa played when Hayden was there:

1979: #3 Oklahoma, #7 Nebraska
1980: #6 Nebraska
1981: #7 Nebraska, #6 UCLA
1982: #3 Nebraska
1983: Penn State
1984: #12 Penn State
1987: #17 Tennessee
1988: Colorado
1989: Oregon
1990: #10 Miami (FL)
1992: NC State, #1 Miami (FL), #10 Colorado
1998: #17 Arizona

Please, do not compare non-conference schedules again between Kirk and Hayden.

Actually, I will.

1999: #5 Nebraska
2000: #8 Kansas State
2000: #1 Nebraska
2003: #16 Arizona State
2004: Arizona State
2006: Syracuse
2007: Syracuse
2008: Pitt
2009: Arizona
2010: #24 Arizona
2011: Pitt
2014: Pitt
2015: Pitt

 

[Franisdaman]

As the season unfolded, iirc, it became apparent Iowa was just one key position away from being very good.

This is just more forgivable. Just average QB play and I know we win the Michigan game ON THE ROAD. Can anyone imagine this team going into HV or the Shoe and winning or almost winning?

'97 is woulda-coulda-shoulda
'17 is same-ol', same-ol'

'97 is ... it happens
'17 is ... it happens too often

2017 is woulda shoulda coulda be easily undefeated

Again, why the excuses for Fry?

NOTE: I am not making excuses for either coach. I just think their careers at Iowa, for better or for worse, are much more similar than what people realize.

Agree with me or not, does not matter. All we have in this thread are opinions backed up with some stats.

Hayden Fry is in the Hall of Fame. Many think KF will end up there too.

Not too bad of a 40 year run, imo.

 

[Mesahawk1]

I an an Iowa alumnus and have attended Iowa football games since 1974. I understand arguments that Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz are comparable based on won-loss records. What I believe is much more qualitative then quantitative: when Coach Fry was at the helm I felt that Iowa had the advantage in being unpredictable and able to adapt, before and during the game, to exploit our strengths and our opponent's weaknessses.

For the past several years with Coach Ferentz at the helm I have felt the exact opposite is true: our opponents know what we will do, and we won't change. We are "just Iowa", "not sexy", and "that's football". It's an attitude and culture that accepts limitations, and that's a 180 degree difference from the Hayden Fry who threatened to punch anyone who congratulated one of his early underdog teams after a close loss to Oklahoma.

JMHO.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Year 20

3-8 and retirement

But why tho....

 

[hawkeye bb n fb fan]

Actually, I will.

1999: #5 Nebraska
2000: #8 Kansas State
2000: #1 Nebraska
2003: #16 Arizona State
2004: Arizona State
2006: Syracuse
2007: Syracuse
2008: Pitt
2009: Arizona
2010: #24 Arizona
2011: Pitt
2014: Pitt
2015: Pitt

So in 19 years HF teams played 12 ranked opponents and KF has played 5 yet the OOC games are similar in difficulty... ok

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Actually, I will.

1999: #5 Nebraska
2000: #8 Kansas State
2000: #1 Nebraska
2003: #16 Arizona State
2004: Arizona State
2006: Syracuse
2007: Syracuse
2008: Pitt
2009: Arizona
2010: #24 Arizona
2011: Pitt
2014: Pitt
2015: Pitt

Lol.

 

[cecilB]

Was Hayden being paid $5 mil./yr and running a jobs program for friends and family? Was Hayden ever in the 10th percentile for coaching salary? Link to Hayden's year 19 being "acceptable?" Does KF have cancer??

H would have been compensated in top decile, however the world began to go nuts with coaching pay soon after.

H did not have family on staff, but was really loyal and carried what some would say is dead weight....specificall Oline, Dline and DE in the twinight of is career.

What's your point?

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Link to where Hayden admitted he got old and conservative? I don't recall that. Hope you have a link; otherwise it weakens everything you have to say.

And I disagree. Both coaches' 19th years look like apples and apples.

Fry struggled to win 7 games in his 19th season. Looks like KF will struggle to win 7 games in his 19th season as well.

Was Fry a bad coach, then?

Fair enough. I was referencing the quote he made about regretting not using Tim Dwight more. Fair contention on your part. With that said, many fans, myself included, felt Fry got more conservative in his latter years. Debatable, perhaps, but my belief nonetheless (and that of many others).

I'm not sure how one) you can make a direct parallel to each coach based upon the year of their tenure (one has nothing to do with the other) and two) how you are making the leap that by implication, or whatever connection you are making, that it's being asserted Fry or Ferentz was a bad coach.

My personal opinion is both coached in very different eras, which isn't saying much, but still, yes, it's hard to make apples to apples comparisons as a result, IMHO. One thing you can say in favor of Ferentz is he won an Orange Bowl and a handful of NY's Day bowls. The flip side is Ferentz has had a lot of mediocre seasons playing mediocre schedules.

Both will go down as legendary coaches, regardless. One thing I will say for Hayden, though, is he knew when to retire. He also hired assistants who were ambitious and wanted to be head coaches some day. Oh, and again, back to the original point, you still haven't provided evidence how the conference schedules that Hayden played and Ferentz has played and is playing are the same. That is, after all, my original comment that you responded to.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

I was at that sun bowl and it was painful to watch for sure

 

[Franisdaman]

I an an Iowa alumnus and have attended Iowa football games since 1974. I understand arguments that Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz are comparable based on won-loss records. What I believe is much more qualitative then quantitative: when Coach Fry was at the helm I felt that Iowa had the advantage in being unpredictable and able to adapt, before and during the game, to exploit our strengths and our opponent's weaknessses.

For the past several years with Coach Ferentz at the helm I have felt the exact opposite is true: our opponents know what we will do, and we won't change. We are "just Iowa", "not sexy", and "that's football". It's an attitude and culture that accepts limitations, and that's a 180 degree difference from the Hayden Fry who threatened to punch anyone who congratulated one of his early underdog teams after a close loss to Oklahoma.

JMHO.

I would say that yes, both coaches have different personalities and different approaches, but ended up with very similar results when it came to wins and losses, B1G championships, and BCS bowls.

If Coach Fry was so unpredictable and better able to adapt than the opposing coaches, if he was really so good at scratching where it itches, why did he have so many up and down seasons?

I would also say that its harder to win now than it was in the HF era. Iowa State, Northwestern and Wisconsin are no longer push overs; they were in the HF era.

Ask Nebraska fans if it is harder to win now or back in the HF days.

 

[Franisdaman]

So in 19 years HF teams played 12 ranked opponents and KF has played 5 yet the OOC games are similar in difficulty... ok

HF also had 3 easy wins every year: Wisconsin, N'western and Iowa State. That obviously is not the case now. It is much harder to win games now than it was in the HF era. Was Wisconsin ever ranked during the HF era? How about N'western? How many times were these 2 teams ranked in the KF era?

Bottom line, it was easier to win in the HF era; wouldn't you agree? If you disagree or if you say nothing, then that will tell us all a lot.

And KF is about to become the all time wins leader at Iowa in an era when it is more difficult to win games....

 

[Johnsoda123]

One thing no can dispute, Fry has the more impressive coaching tree, by a mile.

 

[Franisdaman]

Fair enough. I was referencing the quote he made about regretting not using Tim Dwight more. Fair contention on your part. With that said, many fans, myself included, felt Fry got more conservative in his latter years. Debatable, perhaps, but my belief nonetheless (and that of many others).

I'm not sure how one) you can make a direct parallel to each coach based upon the year of their tenure (one has nothing to do with the other) and two) how you are making the leap that by implication, or whatever connection you are making, that it's being asserted Fry or Ferentz was a bad coach.

My personal opinion is both coached in very different eras, which isn't saying much, but still, yes, it's hard to make apples to apples comparisons as a result, IMHO. One thing you can say in favor of Ferentz is he won an Orange Bowl and a handful of NY's Day bowls. The flip side is Ferentz has had a lot of mediocre seasons playing mediocre schedules.

Both will go down as legendary coaches, regardless. One thing I will say for Hayden, though, is he knew when to retire. He also hired assistants who were ambitious and wanted to be head coaches some day. Oh, and again, back to the original point, you still haven't provided evidence how the conference schedules that Hayden played and Ferentz has played and is playing are the same. That is, after all, my original comment that you responded to.

When looking at all the threads, you don't think it's being asserted that Ferentz is a bad coach?

This is year 19 of the KF era and I was just curious what year 19 looked like for HF. And it is also to make a point: Both coaches had up and down seasons during their careers at Iowa. For whatever reason, it is hard to win 9 or 10 games per year consistently at Iowa.

This year I think the struggles have a lot to do with having 2 freshmen offensive tackles; its hard to run the ball with so much inexperience there. I am just glad Stanley is not getting sacked non stop.

If we don't drop the ball in the MSU game, it gets tied at 17; if we don't drop the ball in the N'western game, who knows.

Everybody is bitching about the offense. We are throwing downfield, so I guess people can't complain there. Stanley has been good. The problem, again, is with injuries on the OL and having to play freshmen there. The OL was supposed to be a veteran group and a huge strength where Wadley was going to have a huge all B1G year; suddenly the OL is not a strength.

I try to look at things with perspective; people on here just seem to want to bitch without thinking

 

[Franisdaman]

Fair enough. I was referencing the quote he made about regretting not using Tim Dwight more. Fair contention on your part. With that said, many fans, myself included, felt Fry got more conservative in his latter years. Debatable, perhaps, but my belief nonetheless (and that of many others).

I'm not sure how one) you can make a direct parallel to each coach based upon the year of their tenure (one has nothing to do with the other) and two) how you are making the leap that by implication, or whatever connection you are making, that it's being asserted Fry or Ferentz was a bad coach.

My personal opinion is both coached in very different eras, which isn't saying much, but still, yes, it's hard to make apples to apples comparisons as a result, IMHO. One thing you can say in favor of Ferentz is he won an Orange Bowl and a handful of NY's Day bowls. The flip side is Ferentz has had a lot of mediocre seasons playing mediocre schedules.

Both will go down as legendary coaches, regardless. One thing I will say for Hayden, though, is he knew when to retire. He also hired assistants who were ambitious and wanted to be head coaches some day. Oh, and again, back to the original point, you still haven't provided evidence how the conference schedules that Hayden played and Ferentz has played and is playing are the same. That is, after all, my original comment that you responded to.

HF had some mediocre seasons, too. In his last 11 years at Iowa, he had 7 mediocre seasons! You said HF knew when to retire? Looks like he should have retired after the 1994 season.

1988: 6-4-3
1989: 5-6-0
1992: 5-7
1993: 6-6
1994: 5-5-1
1997: 7-5
1998: 3-8

And as you will see, in another post I showed how KF played several ranked and P5 teams in the non conference; I also pointed out how wins vs Wisky, N'w, and ISU were a given in the HF era and not in the KF era. It is harder to win in the KF era yet KF has had just as good of results as the hall of fame coach HF. And that is the point.