Year 19 for Hall of Fame Coach Hayden Fry? 7-5 w/ Losses to OSU, Mich, Wisc, N'w, Bowl game

[DBQ Hawk]

Fry had a tougher initial row to hoe since Iowa was a historically bad team, like viewed as a bye week win sort of team, with only one impressive thing about them: this oddly supportive fan-base out in the middle of nowhere. And don't underestimate the impact of the Big Ten being utterly dominated by UM and OSU at that time. The old "Big 2 Little 8" thing was absolutely true. In other words, Hayden had a historic amount, a real shitload of inertia to overcome to make this a successful program.

KF had a tough initial row to hoe because we had no talent pool available, but the hill was not as steep to climb. I think the schedule thing is a wash: Fry had more tough teams yearly as a percentage, but at least we played the same teams every year in the BIG. It's harder for KF to prepare for teams since we don't play every BIG team every year and especially for road games, the unfamiliarity of things adds an discomfort element.

Ultimately, I would rate them even, all things considered. It's like choosing between two beautiful women, one's a brunette and one's a blond. Everyone has their own personal preferences or opinions on that sort of thing, but hell they're both beautiful so who's complaining, right?

 

[Franisdaman]

I would argue that Iowa was trending downward in Fry's 19th year (lots of veterans) whereas Iowa seems to be trending upward in KF's 19th year (lots of talented youngsters)

 

[DBQ Hawk]

I would argue that Iowa was trending downward in Fry's 19th year (lots of veterans) whereas Iowa seems to be trending upward in KF's 19th year (lots of talented youngsters)

I think one important difference we're seeing is KF changing/upgrading his asst coaches in the past few years, whereas Hayden had a steady downturn in asst coach quality after about 1992. KF was in danger of his staff getting stale and complacent like I think Hayden's did in the 90's when, as has been pointed out, we suddenly stopped having All Big 10 QB's after a long run of really good ones (Rodgers, Hartleib, Vlasic, Long), and recruiting in general took a downturn. I agree that the future looks bright for this young team we're seeing, whereas in 1997 I think most observant Iowa fans suspected increasingly bare cupboards were on the way. Also, Fry did not get Timmy D the ball nearly enough, and honestly maybe he should've had him play some defense as well at times, like on special team (best gunner ever, seriously).

 

[Franisdaman]

Could it be that it is hard to win now a days with everybody having 85 on scholarship?

I loved Hayden Fry. But I am also going to be realistic; Fry had 7 bad/mediocre seasons in this last 11 season at Iowa:

1988: 6-4-3
1989: 5-6-0
1992: 5-7
1993: 6-6
1994: 5-5-1
1997: 7-5
1998: 3-8


Again, Fry had 7 bad/mediocre seasons in this last 11 season at Iowa. Why does he always get a pass???

Why didn't Fry elevate the program after being #1 in 1985? Instead, we get 7 clunkers in his last 11 years.

Unacceptable!!!! (tongue in cheek)

All I am saying is that even the great Hayden Fry struggled to win at Iowa.

For every 3 games Hayden won, he lost 2. Think about that for a second.

 

[Franisdaman]

Some more questions:

If KF is not the man for the job, why aren't big time boosters demanding change?

Why was Barta allowed to extend KF again? Because he is not the man for the job?

Why does the University President support Barta and the job KF is doing?

What do they know that we don't??

Are they the smart ones and we are just idiots/whiners?

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

I, and others in the past, would say that there is a lot more parity in college football today.

Otherwise, how does ISU win at Oklahoma? How does Troy win at LSU?

When Hayden coached, Oklahoma would have never lost to ISU.

Its a lot harder to win college football games now vs when Hayden coached

There is far greater parity in todays game. That plays a significant role in why the SEC has implemented such a cottage industry of douchy recruiting strategies (like oversigning, etc). As we've seen in rather recent history, many teams liked the USC's, Alabama's, and even the OSU's of the world have not shied from shady recruiting practices ... in order to sate the thirsts of their respective fan-bases. These occurrences have arguably been driven by the greater parity in the game ... because many programs will do whatever it takes to get whatever edge they can.

Michigan's loss to Appalachian State was a surprisingly momentous event ... because few could fathom such an upset but a decade earlier. I'd be curious about the stats related to upsets (given point spreads and the like) and their frequency and see how that correlates to any myriad of other variables. My bet is that parity certainly has increased though ... and it's had some fascinating impacts on the game.

 

[Franisdaman]

There is far greater parity in todays game. That plays a significant role in why the SEC has implemented such a cottage industry of douchy recruiting strategies (like oversigning, etc). As we've seen in rather recent history, many teams liked the USC's, Alabama's, and even the OSU's of the world have not shied from shady recruiting practices ... in order to sate the thirsts of their respective fan-bases. These occurrences have arguably been driven by the greater parity in the game ... because many programs will do whatever it takes to get whatever edge they can.

Michigan's loss to Appalachian State was a surprisingly momentous event ... because few could fathom such an upset but a decade earlier. I'd be curious about the stats related to upsets (given point spreads and the like) and their frequency and see how that correlates to any myriad of other variables. My bet is that parity certainly has increased though ... and it's had some fascinating impacts on the game.

Speaking of parity, we very well could see a 2 loss team in the College Football playoff. How did ISU go on the road and beat Oklahoma? How did Iowa beat OSU at home and almost beat Penn State? Parity.

I understand people not giving KF a pass when others say its harder to win now a days.

But, I am not going to give Fry a pass, either.

I just don't understand all the excuses made for Fry on why he could not sustain success. Excuses are made for Fry but we bash on KF???

What is the answer? I am not paid to know that answer.

For whatever reason, our President and AD think KF is the perfect fit for the job.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Folks feel like Iowa has lost to teams that they should have beaten .... but haven't all of Iowa's losses come to B1G teams that are in the top 25 (at least currently)? 3 of our 4 losses have been to some of the most consistently solid performers in the B1G (MSU, Wisky, and NW) .... here I'm ignoring MSU's hiccup last year. The loss to PSU being one of the bigger risers in the B1G (in recent history).

I don't like the losses, nor do I want them ... but I think that the programs we've lost to field high-quality teams.

 

[Franisdaman]

bump =)

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Was Hayden being paid $5 mil./yr

was ANY coach at that time.....not even close I'd bet

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Folks feel like Iowa has lost to teams that they should have beaten .... but haven't all of Iowa's losses come to B1G teams that are in the top 25 (at least currently)? 3 of our 4 losses have been to some of the most consistently solid performers in the B1G (MSU, Wisky, and NW) .... here I'm ignoring MSU's hiccup last year. The loss to PSU being one of the bigger risers in the B1G (in recent history).

I don't like the losses, nor do I want them ... but I think that the programs we've lost to field high-quality teams.

PU is not top 25, NW wouldn't be if we beat them

 

[DodgerHawki]

Speaking of parity, we very well could see a 2 loss team in the College Football playoff. How did ISU go on the road and beat Oklahoma? How did Iowa beat OSU at home and almost beat Penn State? Parity.

I understand people not giving KF a pass when others say its harder to win now a days.

But, I am not going to give Fry a pass, either.

I just don't understand all the excuses made for Fry on why he could not sustain success. Excuses are made for Fry but we bash on KF???

What is the answer? I am not paid to know that answer.

For whatever reason, our President and AD think KF is the perfect fit for the job.

I dislike the deriding of one of these guys at the expense of the other. Both were perfect for Iowa at the point in time when they came along. Fry was the salesman and understood marketing and psychology, many of our fans who despise PJ Fleck or Harbaugh would have hated Fry if not coaching for Iowa.

Fry also understood there was real opportunity when he joined the Big 10. Michigan and OSU dominated, but the league was ripe for another program to rise up and challenge those two. That's exactly what Fry did. Had a great staff who could recruit and coach and they did great work. Once Mac, Ferentz, Snyder, Alvarez moved on the success level went down, with the exception of 1990-91. The latter half of the Fry era was marked by horrific special teams and offenses that turned stale instead of trend-setting.

To your overall point, I agree that winning 9-10 games EVERY year at Iowa is very hard to do. There is a segment of the fan base that thinks the only thing stopping Iowa from doing just that is a better coach who "tried harder" or "didn't accept losing" or whatever. I think Ferentz is still the right guy for Iowa, the likelihood of Iowa having a 10+ win season in the next 2 years is much greater with him as the coach than pretty much anyone else that would reasonably coach here.

 

[Franisdaman]

I dislike the deriding of one of these guys at the expense of the other. Both were perfect for Iowa at the point in time when they came along. Fry was the salesman and understood marketing and psychology, many of our fans who despise PJ Fleck or Harbaugh would have hated Fry if not coaching for Iowa.

Fry also understood there was real opportunity when he joined the Big 10. Michigan and OSU dominated, but the league was ripe for another program to rise up and challenge those two. That's exactly what Fry did. Had a great staff who could recruit and coach and they did great work. Once Mac, Ferentz, Snyder, Alvarez moved on the success level went down, with the exception of 1990-91. The latter half of the Fry era was marked by horrific special teams and offenses that turned stale instead of trend-setting.

To your overall point, I agree that winning 9-10 games EVERY year at Iowa is very hard to do. There is a segment of the fan base that thinks the only thing stopping Iowa from doing just that is a better coach who "tried harder" or "didn't accept losing" or whatever. I think Ferentz is still the right guy for Iowa, the likelihood of Iowa having a 10+ win season in the next 2 years is much greater with him as the coach than pretty much anyone else that would reasonably coach here.

I am not trying to rip on anyone. Nevertheless, I try to look at the facts.

Lets face it. Fry had 7 bad/mediocre seasons in this last 11!!!

1988: 6-4-3
1989: 5-6-0
1992: 5-7
1993: 6-6
1994: 5-5-1
1997: 7-5
1998: 3-8

Why does he get a pass by so many people on this board? 7 bad seasons in his last 11!!!

KF inherited a mess from Fry; I was at Fry's last game in the Metrodome and there was whispering that his players quit on him that season! And anybody that witnessed that game had to be worried about what was to come, not only in the new coach BUT if we would be able to dig out of the hole Fry left the program in.

KF took the mess that Fry left him and won ONE game his first year and just 3 games his 2nd year. You don't think that took a look of work to turn things around? But hey, lets give Fry a pass on the mess he left KF.

Even the great Hayden Fry struggled to win at Iowa. For every 3 games Hayden won, he lost 2. Think about that for a second.

Fry never won a BCS level bowl game. He got blown out in every Rose Bowl he appeared in. He never won a national title.

But hey, lets re-write history and continue to rip on KF.

I love Hayden Fry and I love what he did for Iowa. But I am not going to ignore things like what I typed above.

Is KF perfect?? Hardly. But neither was Fry. Far from it.

 

[cmhawks99]

Fry had a tougher initial row to hoe since Iowa was a historically bad team, like viewed as a bye week win sort of team, with only one impressive thing about them: this oddly supportive fan-base out in the middle of nowhere. And don't underestimate the impact of the Big Ten being utterly dominated by UM and OSU at that time. The old "Big 2 Little 8" thing was absolutely true. In other words, Hayden had a historic amount, a real shitload of inertia to overcome to make this a successful program.

KF had a tough initial row to hoe because we had no talent pool available, but the hill was not as steep to climb. I think the schedule thing is a wash: Fry had more tough teams yearly as a percentage, but at least we played the same teams every year in the BIG. It's harder for KF to prepare for teams since we don't play every BIG team every year and especially for road games, the unfamiliarity of things adds an discomfort element.

Ultimately, I would rate them even, all things considered. It's like choosing between two beautiful women, one's a brunette and one's a blond. Everyone has their own personal preferences or opinions on that sort of thing, but hell they're both beautiful so who's complaining, right?

Although I agree with the spirit of your post and pretty much everything in it...I definitively disagree with the scheduling thing other than playing Oklahoma, Nebraska, UCLA early in his timeframe..they didn't play anywhere near the same schedule, college football is infinitely tougher now than it was when Hayden was here.

 

[doughuddl2]

Was Hayden being paid $5 mil./yr and running a jobs program for friends and family? Was Hayden ever in the 10th percentile for coaching salary? Link to Hayden's year 19 being "acceptable?" Does KF have cancer??

You picked the perfect name for yourself.

 

[cmhawks99]

I get the point that there is more parity in college football these days. That said, while Wisconsin was bad in Fry's days, Illinois was pretty good, so you can flip those two. Regarding Iowa State, of KF's 9 losses, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2005 were good Iowa State teams. The other 5 losses KF has endured:
2014 - Iowa State was 2-10;
2012 - Iowa State was 6-7;
2011 - Iowa State was 6-7;
2007 - Iowa State was 3-9;
1999 - Iowa State was 4-7.

Regarding the 2001 and 2002 Iowa State games, these were KF specials. Iowa had better talent in both years, but managed to lose both games. KF's record against Iowa State is the biggest indictment on his resume.

We are 8-3 the last 11 vs ISU and fans clearly have not looked at the schedules very closely because HF lost to some really bad teams.

It's just a fact & I've ran it down before. Hard-core Hayden Fry fans just have a hard time acknowledging it

 

[Franisdaman]

We are 8-3 the last 11 vs ISU and fans clearly have not looked at the schedules very closely because HF lost to some really bad teams.

It's just a fact & I've ran it down before. Hard-core Hayden Fry fans just have a hard time acknowledging it

People tend to forget the bad about people over time. Look at former Presidents. When they leave office, their approval rating increases over time.