Another reason why teachers are leaving...

[Tom Paris]

I can’t imagine NC law is wildly different from other states:

(b) School personnel may use reasonable force to control behavior or to remove a person from the scene in those situations when necessary for any of the following reasons:

(1) To correct students.
(2) To quell a disturbance threatening injury to others.
(3) To obtain possession of weapons or other dangerous objects on the person, or within the control, of a student.
(4) For self-defense.
(5) For the protection of persons or property.
(6) To maintain order on educational property, in the classroom, or at a school-related activity on or off educational property.
(c) Notwithstanding any other law, no officer, member, or employee of the State Board of Education, the Superintendent of Public Instruction, or of a local board of education, individually or collectively, shall be civilly liable for using reasonable force in conformity with State law, State or local rules, or State or local policies regarding the control, discipline, suspension, and expulsion of students. Furthermore, the burden of proof is on the claimant to show that the amount of force used was not reasonable.

We were trained on proper restraint techniques.

What the heck does “to correct students”mean? We are explicitly told, especially with kids who have kids our district leaders are afraid of, that we absolutely do not touch them. It’s beyond annoying watching a principal and staff following a kid around the school who won’t follow any directions. Hiding behind cafeteria tables. Trashing classrooms. That administrator in Texas who lost her eye? That crap can happen about anywhere. Until laws are rewritten or enforced with schools being protected by those laws, I don’t see things getting better for awhile.

 

[Pinehawk]

lol…my no-pic wife had to physically restrain a second grader for over half an hour. He was in the vice-principals office and lost it. Smashing things. Throwing things. His safety was the issue. My wife - trained - happened to be there and immediately locked him up. Five minutes later, he was calm and they just chatted until his mom got there. She never let him go until then.

I’m fine with it where necessary. Mitch said it wasn’t allowed.

 

[Tom Paris]

lol…my no-pic wife had to physically restrain a second grader for over half an hour. He was in the vice-principals office and lost it. Smashing things. Throwing things. His safety was the issue. My wife - trained - happened to be there and immediately locked him up. Five minutes later, he was calm and they just chatted until his mom got there. She never let him go until then.

We had a kid intentionally head butt a wall the other day and split his forehead open. 3rd grader. Anytime he is pressed to do something he doesn’t want to do he explodes. He’s been in our building for a week.

 

[Pinehawk]

What the heck does “to correct students”? We are explicitly told, especially with kids who have kids our district leaders are afraid of, that we absolutely do not touch them. It’s beyond annoying watching a principal and staff following a kid around the school who won’t follow any directions. Hiding behind cafeteria tables. Trashing classrooms. That administrator in Texas who lost her eye? That crap can happen about anywhere. Until laws are rewritten or enforced with schools being protected by those laws, I don’t see things getting better for awhile.

I can see why families wouldn’t want that learning environment.

 

[goldmom]

What the heck does “to correct students”mean? We are explicitly told, especially with kids who have kids our district leaders are afraid of, that we absolutely do not touch them. It’s beyond annoying watching a principal and staff following a kid around the school who won’t follow any directions. Hiding behind cafeteria tables. Trashing classrooms. That administrator in Texas who lost her eye? That crap can happen about anywhere. Until laws are rewritten or enforced with schools being protected by those laws, I don’t see things getting better for awhile.

This x1000.
At the high school where I taught if there was an issue in the classroom the Assistant principal and two coaches would come to the room and “escort” the students out - by any means necessary and if the police officer assigned to the school had to come in to help he was there ASAP. The kids either got ISS or if they were repeat problems they got sent to the Alt School. It was always made clear that they didn’t have the right to disrupt classes.

 

[Tom Paris]

I can see why families wouldn’t want that learning environment.

Same. But stealing our tax dollars and grifting to private schools doesn’t solve the public school issues. For the record, my school is a legit great school. Great test scores. I will put our stats up against any private elementary in the state. We just also have a handful of students who REALLY need something different…and that something different isn’t available to them. Currently.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

What the heck does “to correct students”mean? We are explicitly told, especially with kids who have kids our district leaders are afraid of, that we absolutely do not touch them. It’s beyond annoying watching a principal and staff following a kid around the school who won’t follow any directions. Hiding behind cafeteria tables. Trashing classrooms. That administrator in Texas who lost her eye? That crap can happen about anywhere. Until laws are rewritten or enforced with schools being protected by those laws, I don’t see things getting better for awhile.

I feel for you. I had a kid mouth off to me on the bus lot one afternoon as the kids were leaving. Took him to my principal and told her what he said. She asked if he had his phone and he said yes. She said, “Call your mom and tell her you won’t be at school tomorrow”.

I worked inner city schools for all of my 33 years. I was part of the EC team for the first 22. We certainly had our issues but something like you describe was so rare that I can’t remember a specific incident. In the millions upon millions of interactions that occur in public schools every single day, you’re going to get extremes every once in a while but the idea that this woman represents some kind of norm is just silly.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

You don’t need to physically restrain anyone. Suspend them if they deserve it. If it continues it’s off to alternative high school. If it continues it’s off to the boys/girls home. If that doesn’t work, it’s juvenile lock up time.

Sounds like public education in Iowa has gone to hell. Is this process not happening?

I can’t imagine NC law is wildly different from other states:

(b) School personnel may use reasonable force to control behavior or to remove a person from the scene in those situations when necessary for any of the following reasons:

(1) To correct students.
(2) To quell a disturbance threatening injury to others.
(3) To obtain possession of weapons or other dangerous objects on the person, or within the control, of a student.
(4) For self-defense.
(5) For the protection of persons or property.
(6) To maintain order on educational property, in the classroom, or at a school-related activity on or off educational property.
(c) Notwithstanding any other law, no officer, member, or employee of the State Board of Education, the Superintendent of Public Instruction, or of a local board of education, individually or collectively, shall be civilly liable for using reasonable force in conformity with State law, State or local rules, or State or local policies regarding the control, discipline, suspension, and expulsion of students. Furthermore, the burden of proof is on the claimant to show that the amount of force used was not reasonable.

We were trained on proper restraint techniques.

We went through a restraining training in my school too and it was a joke. I don’t know of a single teacher who wants to deal with touching a student. Thankfully, we have minimal problems at my school and discipline isn’t really an issue. Kids get suspended and if their bullshit continues they eventually get paneled and sent to an alternative school. Our principal and APs don’t play around.

It sounds to me like Iowa schools have gone to hell. Sad to see morale so low.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Sounds like public education in Iowa has gone to hell. Is this process not happening?

We went through a restraining training in my school too and it was a joke. I don’t know of a single teacher who wants to deal with touching a student. Thankfully, we have minimal problems at my school and discipline isn’t really an issue. Kids get suspended and if their bullshit continues they eventually get paneled and sent to an alternative school. Our principal and APs don’t play around.

It sounds to me like Iowa schools have gone to hell. Sad to see morale so low.

If I’m protecting a student from themselves or protecting another student, I never even thought twice. I broke up my fair share of fights (girl fights are the WORST) and never hesitated to grab a student.

Now there were times I didn’t exactly…rush in? 😁

 

[Tom Paris]

I feel for you. I had a kid mouth off to me on the bus lot one afternoon as the kids were leaving. Took him to my principal and told her what he said. She asked if he had his phone and he said yes. She said, “Call your mom and tell her you won’t be at school tomorrow”.

I worked inner city schools for all of my 33 years. I was part of the EC team for the first 22. We certainly had our issues but something like you describe was so rare that I can’t remember a specific incident. In the millions upon millions of interactions that occur in public schools every single day, you’re going to get extremes every once in a while but the idea that this woman represents some kind of norm is just silly.

I would say it was year 21 of 26 when I first saw a room trashed. My first 9 years were in inner city schools. First 5 teaching BD. That was never a thing. This one kid now basically gets enjoyment acting like an asshole every single day. My boss said to me that her bosses say this is his placement, period. He does not belong in a general education environment. We are not capable of meeting his needs. The “craziest” kids have the worst parents. This kid’s family is as effed up as any I have ever heard of. Like beyond looney tunes.

 

[Tom Paris]

If I’m protecting a student from themselves or protecting another student, I never even thought twice. I broke up my fair share of fights (girl fights are the WORST) and never hesitated to grab a student.

Now there were times I didn’t exactly…rush in? 😁

This is me 100%. I still remember the fight. Chelsea and Emily. The mouthiest middle school girls one could meet. They started popping off at each other in the cafeteria. The tech teacher and I could see it coming and made sure we walked to that fight once it erupted.

I have also launched a middle school kid who was bashing a much smaller kid’s head on concrete. A literal 2 handed shove into the grass and carried the other kid to the nurse. 4 more years.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

If I’m protecting a student from themselves or protecting another student, I never even thought twice. I broke up my fair share of fights (girl fights are the WORST) and never hesitated to grab a student.

Now there were times I didn’t exactly…rush in? 😁

I broke up one fight last year in the cafeteria. I just got between the two kids and used my size to intimidate one into walking away.

If a kid was in danger of getting hurt, yeah, I would intervene and feel confident admin would have my back.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

I would say it was year 21 of 26 when I first saw a room trashed. My first 9 years were in inner city schools. First 5 teaching BD. That was never a thing. This one kid now basically gets enjoyment acting like an asshole every single day. My boss said to me that her bosses say this is his placement, period. He does not belong in a general education environment. We are not capable of meeting his needs. The “craziest” kids have the worst parents. This kid’s family is as effed up as any I have ever heard of. Like beyond looney tunes.

Last spring when we had a PBL showcase open to parents and community members, a parent intentionally threw hot coffee on a 6th grade girl who was like 4’9 and said, “Don’t **** with my daughter again!”

The school pressed charges against her and she is never allowed on the property again.

I don’t think a lot of people understand how terrible and worthless some parents are.