Bill to ban TikTok introduced in the House

[Hoosierhawkeye]

You justify the removal of TikTok (and Twitter) because it's a cesspool of stupidity, that nobody will miss in the long run.

It's like porn. As fun as it can be to watch.....would the world be worse off without it?

Don't overthink things because of politics. Sometimes the solution is often that simple.

You're welcome.

This isn't just tik tok though. The prez can ban any foreign website or app.

And people have the right to be part of the cesspool of stupidity if they are stupid enough to be part of it.

 

[Slappy Pappy]

The decision to potentially prohibit TikTok and other social media platforms arises from concerns about their potential to shape public opinion and influence large audiences. The ownership of TikTok by China further complicates the matter, as it raises significant national security and geopolitical implications. China has previously restricted access to American social media within its borders, recognizing the influence these platforms can wield over public perception. In my view, this potential prohibition represents a strategic and prudent measure, safeguarding against undue external influence and potential security risks.

We don't really need TikTok when we have Instagram Reels. Just ban the Chinese infiltration device and be done with it.

Reels
Shorts

They are all the same.

You guys talking about American-owned alternatives nailed this on the head.

It's never been about security. That's just the angle to force tiktok to sell out to Meta or Google. It's about market share. The whole "ban tiktok" movement was actually started first by Zuckerberg, who saw his stock prices plunge as Gen Z abandoned Facebook/Instagram for tik Tok.

As you know, Meta, Google, etc make ALL their coin by sell users data to companies and marketers. And the only demographics that really have any value to marketers and major consumer-product corporations is teens and early 20 somethings - young people who haven't settled on their life-long brand affiliations and shopping favorites yet.

Facebook did this before by buying out Instagram, which was the hot thing with Millenials who didn't want to be on FB with grandma. Now he needs Gen Z's tiktok to stay relevant, and is using government socialism to give it to him.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

This isn't just tik tok though. The prez can ban any foreign website or app.

And people have the right to be part of the cesspool of stupidity if they are stupid enough to be part of it.

Again.....not about politcal "rights".

 

[SI_NYC]

You guys talking about American-owned alternatives nailed this on the head.

It's never been about security. That's just the angle to force tiktok to sell out to Meta or Google. It's about market share. The whole "ban tiktok" movement was actually started first by Zuckerberg, who saw his stock prices plunge as Gen Z abandoned Facebook/Instagram for tik Tok.

As you know, Meta, Google, etc make ALL their coin by sell users data to companies and marketers. And the only demographics that really have any value to marketers and major consumer-product corporations is teens and early 20 somethings - young people who haven't settled on their life-long brand affiliations and shopping favorites yet.

Facebook did this before by buying out Instagram, which was the hot thing with Millenials who didn't want to be on FB with grandma. Now he needs Gen Z's tiktok to stay relevant, and is using government socialism to give it to him.

That’s fair.

 

[TonyTheTiger.1865]

As much as I hate TikTok we can’t allow censorship.

 

[WDSMHAWK]

 

[HawkinK.C.1]

Why does the Biden campaign have aTikTok account if it's a risk to national security? Should he really be reaching out to the kids through a Chinese spy app? Why don't more people seem concerned that the president himself is a customer?

 

[ISUBryceC]

The only real justification I can see is that it’s a negative health risk, which it is. But that’s not unique to TikTok, that’s all social media. So why stop there?

 

[hawkifann]

But pron ain't social media. Keep the websites.

Really? These forums are social media. Any website with a comments section is social media. It doesn’t have to be a stand-alone app.

 

[GOHOX69]

Really? These forums are social media. Any website with a comments section is social media. It doesn’t have to be a stand-alone app.

Agreed, but those are far worse than this.

 

[alaskanseminole]

This isn't just tik tok though. The prez can ban any foreign website or app.

And people have the right to be part of the cesspool of stupidity if they are stupid enough to be part of it.

Again, this isn't about being part of a cesspool. If it were, then all social media platforms would be banned. This is about cybersecurity. Exploiting the app's vulnerabilities could allow attackers to gain access to various types of TikTok users' information, including: Information about the user's device, such as device type, operating system, browser details, etc. You think the AT&T outage was bad. Imagine 150 million U.S. phones becoming Chinese bots as part of a wave 1 cyber attack. Can you fathom the amount of malign influence China could spread using 150 million phones? Or just turn them into bricks?

Heck, it's pretty common knowledge that TikTok is a vulnerability, but people continue to intentionally download and use the darn thing. If users become part of a cyber attack, should we hold them accountable to Executive Order 13757?

https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-information

There's reason for concern on the part of the U.S. government. Researchers have shown that TikTok has bypassed Google privacy safeguards in the Android operating system, enabling the company to track TikTok users even if they remove the app's tracking cookies. Also, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce the TikTok app sends a wide range of user data to cloud data centers in China, where it applies its closely guarded artificial intelligence (AI) algorithms to identify and spread viral posts.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2020/09/could-time-be-up-for-tiktok.html

 

[hawkifann]

Reels
Shorts

They are all the same.

And before that there was Vine. I think the ban is ridiculous and I work in infosec.

 

[thewop]

Who's up for a conspiracy theory? Super Tuesday test run...

 

[BioHawk]

The back door censorship efforts have been floundering since Musk bought Twitter and exposed the communications from the government, so they’re making the power grab up front.

Hopefully the SC squashes it, because it appears most pols are enthralled with the idea of the government having this power.

If there is a legitimate national security threat then the ban is warranted. But yeah, they need to explain what that threat is and provide the evidence for it. Maybe in court is the only place that can happen.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Again, this isn't about being part of a cesspool. If it were, then all social media platforms would be banned. This is about cybersecurity. Exploiting the app's vulnerabilities could allow attackers to gain access to various types of TikTok users' information, including: Information about the user's device, such as device type, operating system, browser details, etc. You think the AT&T outage was bad. Imagine 150 million U.S. phones becoming Chinese bots as part of a wave 1 cyber attack. Can you fathom the amount of malign influence China could spread using 150 million phones? Or just turn them into bricks?

Heck, it's pretty common knowledge that TikTok is a vulnerability, but people continue to intentionally download and use the darn thing. If users become part of a cyber attack, should we hold them accountable to Executive Order 13757?

https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-information

There's reason for concern on the part of the U.S. government. Researchers have shown that TikTok has bypassed Google privacy safeguards in the Android operating system, enabling the company to track TikTok users even if they remove the app's tracking cookies. Also, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce the TikTok app sends a wide range of user data to cloud data centers in China, where it applies its closely guarded artificial intelligence (AI) algorithms to identify and spread viral posts.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2020/09/could-time-be-up-for-tiktok.html

Then why not create privacy laws and/or ban tik tok and only tik tok without handing the president unilateral authority to ban any foreign website.

 

[biggreydogs]

 

[BioHawk]

View embedded media

I'm not sure what the point here is. Is the claim that Feinstein knowingly employed a Chinese spy? Because that's quite the accusation.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I'm not sure what the point here is. Is the claim that Feinstein knowingly employed a Chinese spy? Because that's quite the accusation.

For the last several years of her life Feinstein didn't even know where she was. Which goes to show what a threat it is to our country that we're being run by aging people with declining mental faculties.

 

[hawkifann]

Agreed, but those are far worse than this.

I use FB, Insta, Twitter, BlueSky, Threads, YouTube, Snapchat, Twitch, Nextdoor, Tumblr, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, TikTok and probably a half dozen others I‘m not thinking about in varying capacities. I find great annoyance and stupidity on most of them, but also very practical and/or entertainment purposes for all of them in specific uses. Who gets to pick what’s ok to use? POTUS? Congress? No thanks.

 

[BioHawk]

For the last several years of her life Feinstein didn't even know where she was. Which goes to show what a threat it is to our country that we're being run by aging people with declining mental faculties.

That's a different issue completely and the accusation was the spy worked for her for 20 years. Far longer than her health decline. It is one thing for a spy to work their way into the inner circle of a government official or member of Congress, it is another to walk around with an app that is a known security threat into sensitive conversations or areas.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Who's up for a conspiracy theory? Super Tuesday test run...

View embedded media

Conspiracy theory fails on 2 fronts. First only FB and it's sister companies in "Meta" went down. Pretty sure Twitter was still up.

Second that isn't the only time FB and it's sister companies in "Meta" have gone down in the past 4 years.

Potentially a 3rd front is that he fails to explain how FB going down specifically on Super Tuesday affects anything. The winners on Super Tuesday were always going to be Biden and Trump. They have been a foregone conclusion the entire time. AND even if there actually was a competitive primary how does FB going down specifically on Super Tuesday for a few hours help or hurt anyone?

You could argue that the government is trying to due American companies a solid by forcing Tik Tok to sell to an American owner and help eliminate competition. That I could believe in.

 

[SoDakHawk]

You guys talking about American-owned alternatives nailed this on the head.

It's never been about security. That's just the angle to force tiktok to sell out to Meta or Google. It's about market share. The whole "ban tiktok" movement was actually started first by Zuckerberg, who saw his stock prices plunge as Gen Z abandoned Facebook/Instagram for tik Tok.

As you know, Meta, Google, etc make ALL their coin by sell users data to companies and marketers. And the only demographics that really have any value to marketers and major consumer-product corporations is teens and early 20 somethings - young people who haven't settled on their life-long brand affiliations and shopping favorites yet.

Facebook did this before by buying out Instagram, which was the hot thing with Millenials who didn't want to be on FB with grandma. Now he needs Gen Z's tiktok to stay relevant, and is using government socialism to give it to him.

When I typed what you quoted in your post, I absolutely thought of this and believed this was a motivating factor in this legislation.

After reading all these posts I am flip-flopping on my stance. I still want TicTok banned but this legislation goes too far in limiting free speech and gives way too much power to the Executive Branch. I never thought it would happen in this country, but we are getting very close to becoming a Banana Republic from the 70s/80s that we used to mock. We're close to going from Mr. President to El Presidente.

 

[seminole97]

You could argue that the government is trying to due American companies a solid by forcing Tik Tok to sell to an American owner and help eliminate competition. That I could believe in.

Largely agree with your earlier analysis of the ‘conspiracy’.

But I do think he’s correct that they want TikTok in hands they can better influence.
I’m much less interested in their current reasoning for any of this than what else they can do with the powers this law provides the Executive.

My concern is that TikTok is the stalking horse for future abuses of power.

I don’t want to be like EU subjects, where their masters in Brussels decide what websites they’re allowed see - for their own good, of course.

 

[hawkifann]

When I typed what you quoted in your post, I absolutely thought of this and believed this was a motivating factor in this legislation.

After reading all these posts I am flip-flopping on my stance. I still want TicTok banned but this legislation goes too far in limiting free speech and gives way too much power to the Executive Branch. I never thought it would happen in this country, but we are getting very close to becoming a Banana Republic from the 70s/80s that we used to mock. We're close to going from Mr. President to El Presidente.

Personally, I think the practical ability of the Chinese government to take action on millions of devices is mostly theoretical and overblown, but additionally, the capability that IS there, isn’t that different than their ability to hack a whole bunch of other crap and do just as much damage or worse.

What’s wild about the ban is the combinations of people coming behind it for a bunch of different reasons, most of which have already been included in this thread:

• Bot army (those already exist without TikTok)
• The app is a cesspool
• National security (blocking the app from install on devices that have access to gov systems is different than banning the app entirely)
• Kids use it
• Libs use it

We’re not even coalescing around a single argument.

 

[MitchLL]

Hilarious how both Mace and MTG voted "No". And likely only because Turd is on record as being opposed to this proposed legislation.

I guess both are hoping Noem turns down the veep selection and DJT turns to one of them?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Largely agree with your earlier analysis of the ‘conspiracy’.

But I do think he’s correct that they want TikTok in hands they can better influence.
I’m much less interested in their current reasoning for any of this than what else they can do with the powers this law provides the Executive.

My concern is that TikTok is the stalking horse for future abuses of power.

I don’t want to be like EU subjects, where their masters in Brussels decide what websites they’re allowed see - for their own good, of course.

Does the EU control what websites people in Europe can see? I googled it but all I could find was the EU has data protection laws which are affecting some US websites.

I'm ok with the government putting some data protection laws in place. The websites could simply follow those laws.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Then why not create privacy laws and/or ban tik tok and only tik tok without handing the president unilateral authority to ban any foreign website.

That, I agree with.

 

[seminole97]

Does the EU control what websites people in Europe can see?

Yep.

Their efficacy is shit (because, well it’s the EU), but the directive and intent are spelled out:

Link

"The sanctions cover all means for transmission and distribution, such as via cable, satellite, IPTV…websites and apps," Johannes Bahrke, a spokesman for the European Commission responsible for digital economy, research, and innovation, told RFE/RL in a statement. "All relevant licenses, authorizations, and distribution arrangements are suspended."

 

[alaskanseminole]

We’re not even coalescing around a single argument.

Spot on! We're having several conversations, many of which aren't even relevant. For example, the "cesspool" and "kids use it" are great discussions, but they have nothing to do with this ban.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Yep.

Their efficacy is shit (because, well it’s the EU), but the directive and intent are spelled out:

Link

"The sanctions cover all means for transmission and distribution, such as via cable, satellite, IPTV…websites and apps," Johannes Bahrke, a spokesman for the European Commission responsible for digital economy, research, and innovation, told RFE/RL in a statement. "All relevant licenses, authorizations, and distribution arrangements are suspended."

Yeah they are blocking Russian websites which are actively controlled by the Russian government. . . they are also effectively at war with the Russian government as Ukraine is now part of the EU.

Tik Tok's content isn't controlled by the CCP. Their concern is that the company that owns tik tok is owned by a company based on China. . . That's a big difference from the website of a media source that is controlled by a state you are at war with.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

That, I agree with.

If what you posted is the concern (And I don't think it's a very big concern because I don't think China gets much advantage from shutting down civilian phones) than they should find the least restrictive solution which to me would be to regulate privacy and what apps can do to phones.

Instead they are going with the most restrictive solution which is "sell tik tok or we ban it" and on top of that most restrictive solution they are handing the keys to the POTUS to unilaterally ban any foreign website or app that meets his ire.

 

[seminole97]

Yeah they are blocking Russian websites which are actively controlled by the Russian government. . . they are also effectively at war with the Russian government as Ukraine is now part of the EU.

You start with the low hanging fruit, it’s the principle and how it will be exercised in the decades to come I’m more concerned about.
I reject the idea that politicians know what information is suitable for my consumption.
They want control over what you can see and know, for your own good of course.

Meanwhile:

Following Wednesday's passage of a bill in the House that would force TikTok to be "fully divested" from Chinese-owned parent company ByteDance, former Trump Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Thursday that he's organizing a group to buy the social media app.



"I think the legislation should pass and I think it should be sold," Mnuchin told CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Thursday. "It’s a great business and I’m going to put together a group to buy TikTok," he added.

According to CNBC, there is common ground between Mnuchin's Liberty Strategic Capital and ByteDance - as Masa Son's SoftBank Vision Fund invested in ByteDance in 2018, and is also a limited partner in Liberty Strategic.

The bill, which passed overwhelmingly in the House with bipartisan support, next heads to the Senate - which we imagine will pass it and send it to President Joe Biden's desk. Biden has indicated that he will sign it.

"This should be owned by U.S. businesses. There’s no way that the Chinese would ever let a U.S. company own something like this in China," Mnuchin said.

 

[BioHawk]

You start with the low hanging fruit, it’s the principle and how it will be exercised in the decades to come I’m more concerned about.
I reject the idea that politicians know what information is suitable for my consumption.
They want control over what you can see and know, for your own good of course.

Meanwhile:

Following Wednesday's passage of a bill in the House that would force TikTok to be "fully divested" from Chinese-owned parent company ByteDance, former Trump Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Thursday that he's organizing a group to buy the social media app.



"I think the legislation should pass and I think it should be sold," Mnuchin told CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Thursday. "It’s a great business and I’m going to put together a group to buy TikTok," he added.

According to CNBC, there is common ground between Mnuchin's Liberty Strategic Capital and ByteDance - as Masa Son's SoftBank Vision Fund invested in ByteDance in 2018, and is also a limited partner in Liberty Strategic.

The bill, which passed overwhelmingly in the House with bipartisan support, next heads to the Senate - which we imagine will pass it and send it to President Joe Biden's desk. Biden has indicated that he will sign it.

"This should be owned by U.S. businesses. There’s no way that the Chinese would ever let a U.S. company own something like this in China," Mnuchin said.

And here is the problem with this. Yet another social media platform being bought by a right wing billionaire further growing the monopoly on the information space that the right wing has.

 

[thewop]

Conspiracy theory fails on 2 fronts. First only FB and it's sister companies in "Meta" went down. Pretty sure Twitter was still up.

Second that isn't the only time FB and it's sister companies in "Meta" have gone down in the past 4 years.

Potentially a 3rd front is that he fails to explain how FB going down specifically on Super Tuesday affects anything. The winners on Super Tuesday were always going to be Biden and Trump. They have been a foregone conclusion the entire time. AND even if there actually was a competitive primary how does FB going down specifically on Super Tuesday for a few hours help or hurt anyone?

You could argue that the government is trying to due American companies a solid by forcing Tik Tok to sell to an American owner and help eliminate competition. That I could believe in.

You had the same 1st question I did. Did they ALL really go down??

I did a quick search and couldn't see that X had gone down... Story kind of falls apart at that point.

 

[hawkifann]

You had the same 1st question I did. Did they ALL really go down??

I did a quick search and couldn't see that X had gone down... Story kind of falls apart at that point.

C’mon now, can’t let facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[ANYCHawk]

Can we still get a ban on Facebook and just Facebook with no trojan horse to mess with anything else. Compromise is nobody touches Twitter currently known as X and that gets written in too. No more website bans. I get major FOMO with Facebook existing trying to get my family on Discord. I used to drink and get cranky on Facebook so I deleted it years ago and I don't want back in on that double dutch of a hellhole

Problem is just a new one will pop up.

With tik tok, sure it might get shuttered and a new one will just pop up. But, it won't be run by the Chinese government (in theory)

 

[ANYCHawk]

The back door censorship efforts have been floundering since Musk bought Twitter and exposed the communications from the government, so they’re making the power grab up front.

Hopefully the SC squashes it, because it appears most pols are enthralled with the idea of the government having this power.

I liked it better when you just yelled SOULED OWNED In every post and that was about it.

 

[Rifler]

I see this as a two part problem,.. First of all, any social media site operating under the direct control of a foreign government should not be allowed access to the US market,.. Secondly, the US government, at any level, should have no direct control of, or ability to influence, non-governmental media sites.

 

[thewop]

C’mon now, can’t let facts get in the way of a good story.

And that's exactly why I posted it to HORT!

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

You had the same 1st question I did. Did they ALL really go down??

I did a quick search and couldn't see that X had gone down... Story kind of falls apart at that point.

Conspiracy theories routinely fall apart when you put much of a thought and research into them.

People put way too much complexity into their "the government is corrupt" conspiracy theories. The government is corrupt but their corruption is pretty out in the open in the "what you gonna do about it?" sort of way. And their corruption pretty much goes along the lines of the Aliens in the Simpsons. It's a 2 party system and both parties want to be corrupt, what you gonna do about it?

For example I unfortunately know some people who believe in conspiracy theories about the government hiding microchips in an attempt to track you. These people very confidently post these conspiracy theories from their smart phone hooked up to GPS. The government isn't hiding microchips in your vaccines or your underwear to track you moron, they can do that through your smartphone, it's an undisputed fact that they can track your smartphone, and we've all paid for it from our own personal funds.

But these people believe in this stuff with little to no thought because it makes them feel good to believe they are in possession of some uber secret knowledge that most people don't know about.