Brooks to PSU

[Blackcat97]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? "Iowa has a marketing problem" thats it? Sorry buddy but you haven't even a clue!!! Iowa just brought in the #1 class last year. It is this year were those playing by the book would also tell you. There is just nothing left to offer!!!!

Where as Funny State, just keeps rolling em in???

AND while I agree not every school is every kids "cup of tea." Who do you know that wrestled or is wrestling. That would not want to wrestle for Iowa! Iowa is the CENTER of USA Wrestling! From the fans, to the tradition, to the results!

Let me ask you. What is the Home Run Record? For those that were Baseball fans before they ruined it. It is Roger Maris 61!!! For those like you, It is 73 by some Drug taking cheater!!!

So please stop lying to yourself!!!

This is where you are wrong. It used to be the center. I know that’s a tough pill to swallow, but the best kids live in PA and OH where by far the two best college programs reside. Things change and evolve.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for proving my point. If you believe that Iowa is still the “Center of USA wrestling” you are the perfect example of what I’m talking about.

 

[MVPFAN]

rossel, you are a walking defense mechanism, rivaled only by jammanz. Here's a "fun" fact for you to suppress:

Iowa has finished behind a team other than PSU for each of the last 7 years. During that time frame Iowa has had THREE #1 recruiting classes.

btw, how about that non 100 recruit from Penn State knocking off #1 in the country!?

2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011= 7 classes and only TWO #1 classes there for Iowa. Not to mention that recruiting rankings don't equate to who is getting the most top kids. They factor in ranking but also factor in number of overall recruits and how they feel a team met their needs.

 

[pumpdog20]

Culture and fit. Each area of the country is different. Aaron is an east coast kid. He feels comfortable around like people as most young people do. It’s a little different in the midwestern area. Proximity to home was a deciding factor also, PSU is 2 hours from home. My oldest son went to Iowa Central for a year. He didn’t like being that far away. They’re kids trying to become adults. All are different. Hope that helps. Never any knocks on Iowa from me. Im a big Brands, Gable and Metcalf fan, have always enjoyed Spencer. He and Aaron were on a duals team when Aaron was 7. We have known him every since.

Appreciate the explanation! Good luck to you and your boy!

 

[BoroBuilt]

So PSU has been the underdog almost every year. Learn something new every day. The legend grows.

Were they not ranked behind okie state all year last year until they beat them in the national duals finals? Were most people not picking osu or tosu after Suriano was injured?

 

[pablow]

Thats why I included Gillis...second team ASICS. Joe, Mac and Mena were nationally credentialed. Winning two state championships in the state of Iowa or winning 4 in South Dakota doesn't mean much if there are no national credentials now. For example, the fall after Cenzo won his first state championship, he's wrestling in Who's #1 against Stroker (I believe). Why? Because of his results in freestyle and PA being the best high school wrestling state. Back then, it was one of the few ways to measure somebody.

Also, our friend SS7 is complete ignoring what I wrote about it being different...about how much more knowledge we have of recruits vs then. For example, a California 4 timer would have been heavily recruited in the 90s. But quite a few folks took a flyer on Mejia after he decommitted from Iowa. Flo was dubious of him because of no freestyle and no national tourney wins like Super 32...which started in the mid 90s. SS7 leapt on the state championship thing and is being disingenuous...It's like saying Manville never won a state title...because he was at a prep school. I guess I should have s-p-e-l-l-e-d it out...my bad.

I agree 100%. I looked at 1997 as well as all of Gable's teams and we had 3 to 4 top ten p4p in the lineup each year.

I counted Gillis too.

Obviously our Penn State friends aren't satisfied with 6 out of 7. They are the most needy fan base in the history of sports and they're wearing me out with the constant ignorant trolling.

 

[ss7]

Thats why I included Gillis...second team ASICS. Joe, Mac and Mena were nationally credentialed. Winning two state championships in the state of Iowa or winning 4 in South Dakota doesn't mean much if there are no national credentials now. For example, the fall after Cenzo won his first state championship, he's wrestling in Who's #1 against Stroker (I believe). Why? Because of his results in freestyle and PA being the best high school wrestling state. Back then, it was one of the few ways to measure somebody.

Also, our friend SS7 is complete ignoring what I wrote about it being different...about how much more knowledge we have of recruits vs then. For example, a California 4 timer would have been heavily recruited in the 90s. But quite a few folks took a flyer on Mejia after he decommitted from Iowa. Flo was dubious of him because of no freestyle and no national tourney wins like Super 32...which started in the mid 90s. SS7 leapt on the state championship thing and is being disingenuous...It's like saying Manville never won a state title...because he was at a prep school. I guess I should have s-p-e-l-l-e-d it out...my bad.

I completely agree that recruiting is different now. Which is why I think it is dumb to use it as a comparison.

If you want to just say that Gable never got as many top 10 P4P recruits as Cael, fine. I think the fact that top 10 P4P lists didn't actually exist during Gable's tenure is at least somewhat relevant to that discussion and would have an impact on the validity of that statement.

If recognizing that, or pointing out that PSU's lineup only exceeded 1997's Iowa lineup by about 4.5% (26 to 24) in your chosen measure (state championships), is me being disingenuous, I guess I'm guilty as charged.

 

[tabenn]

Did Witlake end up at Okie State because he refused Cael’s deferred enrollment plan?

very possible that Witlake new that Brooks would be going to PSU--and Okie probably could give more scolly money--I have know knowledge of this , just a thought

 

[cidhawkeye]

Culture and fit. Each area of the country is different. Aaron is an east coast kid. He feels comfortable around like people as most young people do. It’s a little different in the midwestern area. Proximity to home was a deciding factor also, PSU is 2 hours from home. My oldest son went to Iowa Central for a year. He didn’t like being that far away. They’re kids trying to become adults. All are different. Hope that helps. Never any knocks on Iowa from me. Im a big Brands, Gable and Metcalf fan, have always enjoyed Spencer. He and Aaron were on a duals team when Aaron was 7. We have known him every since.

I am from Iowa and not that far from Iowa Central and I wouldn't like being there either. Good luck to your family, sounds like you have taken a solid approach which is a great thing.

 

[lookleft goright]

By my quick count, there were 26 former top-10 recruits at the NCAA tournament last year.

Six of them won titles. Five of the six wrestle for the same coach.

If I'm an elite recruit looking for the coach who will help me reach my potential, that's the only data point I need.

That is impressive. I do think Cael has a unique ability to assess talent. He passed on Brooks Black and Tom Haines, who were both the number 1 ranked heavy their senior year and he went after Nevilles. That worked out. He let Marstelar or something happened there and look how that has turned out. He also brought in Rasheed and Cassar as virtual unkn owns and look at that. He has an eye for talent.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011= 7 classes and only TWO #1 classes there for Iowa. Not to mention that recruiting rankings don't equate to who is getting the most top kids. They factor in ranking but also factor in number of overall recruits and how they feel a team met their needs.

2010 was #1 so that's 3 of the last 8. Look you guys can complain about recruiting all you want but Iowa has brought in a lot of talent this decade yet have finished behind a team other then PSU every year. Missouri is currently ranked slightly ahead of Iowa in Intermat's tournament rankings and 4 ahead in dual rankings, are you really trying to tell my they are out recruiting Iowa?

 

[MVPFAN]

2010 was #1 so that's 3 of the last 8. Look you guys can complain about recruiting all you want but Iowa has brought in a lot of talent this decade yet have finished behind a team other then PSU every year. Missouri is currently ranked slightly ahead of Iowa in Intermat's tournament rankings and 4 ahead in dual rankings, are you really trying to tell my they are out recruiting Iowa?

You said 7 not 8 so setting you straight. It is no secret that Iowa was missing the boat with their recruiting. It has gotten better recently and has been a gradual improvement since M* has become involved. How much actual talent they brought in vs what some ranking site said is where the gap is. Frankly a lot of guys Iowa has brought in before the light turned on were not especially talented despite criteria that would seemed like they would be. Like I said, the team recruiting ranking is very flawed. They give too much input to things that mean nothing. Sure a team signed a bunch of guys or recruited over hole or two but the only things matters is having guys who score big points an the NCAAs. If you want to rank a class properly you should only factor that. Team A might bring in two top 10 overall guys who score 20+ points each at the tourny and team B brought in 8 guys ranked lower who score a total of 20 points. Which class was better?

As for Mizzouri, they do well at identifying talent not ranked so high, they have been better than Iowa at finding athletic wrestlers they can use in their system. Intermat's tournament rankings aside I'll take our trophy case over theirs even in the time since Iowa last won a title.

I think the light bulb has come on for Iowa but now they are behind a bit.

2012- Clark, Gilman etc. Good class, good production.
2013- Only Sorensen has contributed and he was not ranked overly high.
2014- Stoll and Gross were great pick ups, injuries hurt him and Gross is #1 on another team . Bowman has chipped in some as a walk on type.
2015- Kem has been great as per his ranking. Wilke good for a #100. Turk injured last year and so so now. Lots of quality room depth and small varsity contributions from walk on type guys like Glynn, Gunther, Glosser, Moody, Shaw etc. Add in transfer Lugo.
2016- Bull is a score, Young is a lot better than many of the higher ranked misses we have had but unfortunately a tweener now. Happel not looking like good value so far, the same issue of not being a good enough athlete might be the case. Hopefully he does not end up in that ares of guy who were not that talented despite criteria that seemed to indicate they were.
2017- Lee a homerun, Warner looks like a score, Murin looks like he can challenge for AA right away. Throw ins Corbin, Costello and Wilson have all had nice RS results. Easily their best class in a long time.
2018- I think both Brands and Cass will be multiple mid to high AA.

Iowa got best production from top end guys with the exception of Sorensen. PSU has signed more top end sure thing talent in the 2017 and 2018 classes than Iowa did from 2012 till now. Going forward Iowa needs to make sure they are choosing very well who they bring in no room for misses. PSU can afford to miss on someone because they have so many top end people there are others to fill the void, not just in lineup spots but especially in scoring. If Iowa misses they are usually left trying to use a lower ranked guy or walk on type to fill the gap and suffer a ton in anticipated point production being lost.

 

[dicemen99]

Has Penn State ever won a national championship as an underdog?

Where did you get the idea that the number of state high school championships won is the gold standard for ranking recruits?

Gable and Cael had different approaches. You might want to study up on that.

Yes. In 2011.

Also, in every season except one so far, they have been ranked #2 or lower before winning the NC.

If Brands just had a kid who was UR coming out of HS beat a #1 in the country, the HR would be doing backflips about his developmental skills.

Iowa was ranked ahead of PSU in recuiting rankings in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013 and 2015, but somehow PSU managed to win five out of six championships on the backs of those classes. (The last championship also featured 2016 and 2017).

If you want to say the Brands have a better track record of developing wrestlers at 125 and 133, you could point to evidence, but so far there is zero evidence of better development skills anywhere else.

James English, Jordan Conaway, Jimmy Vollrath, Matt Brown, Anthony Cassar, Corey Rasheed. Plenty of evidence of PSU developing low or unranked wrestlers into real threats but will go ignored by the majority here.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Dang man. Whine Fest at HR.
Apparently excuses have run full circle and new ones are temporarily obsolete. All the recruits liking Penn State is bad for wrestling. All recruits liking Iowa is good for wrestling.
Penn State's staff is great at recruiting. Apparently they are also pretty good at developing all that talent, so the talent keeps coming.
Thing is, all the whining about Penn State but Ohio State is doing a helluva job recruiting top end talent also.
The answer seems simple, recruit to the level of Penn State and Ohio State, and when you do produce champions.

I'm a huge Hawks fan, but I think you're spot on. Iowa has to do a better job of maneuvering through the obstacles to get the good recruits, and once we do get them we need to develop them to be champions. I feel that we've done a very mediocre job a taking our talent to it's fullest potential and as such are now sitting in the backseat. Hopefully for Iowa's sake we can right the ship, but whining and bitching about what PSU has isn't accomplishing a thing. TnT and the boys need to get this ship moving in the right direction, and being out-recruited and then not being able to better develop what we do recruit is a problem. For instance, I don't think Kaleb Young, "a Punxsutawney native ranked by InterMat as the 25th-best prospect nationally in the Class of 2016," will ever make our lineup, and when he does happen to fill in, he gets his ass kicked. That's a problem. I'm sure Kaleb was a stud in HS, but for whatever reason Iowa has not been able to develop him (weight, strength, skill set, etc.). Look at Mike Evans: top 5 recruit out of HS; best finish was 6th at NCAAs - failure to develop - never improved during his time at Iowa WRT rankings). Sammy Brooks is another amazing talent that just never improved at Iowa, and I'm talking NCAA placement. Telford's another. These guys were all fricking studs when they got to Iowa and never reached the promise land, nor did they really improve (final NCAA placement) during their tenure. So my question to my fellow Hawk brothers who keep complaining about PSU, WTH are we doing wrong to where we can't develop our talent the way PSU has. I mean Zain wasn't always the dominant badass, but he sure is now and has been the last few years under Cael's supervision. The problem is ours, but we always want to blame PSU and Cael...ugh!!

 

[Mpchillin]

If you want to say the Brands have a better track record of developing wrestlers at 125 and 133, you could point to evidence, but so far there is zero evidence of better development skills anywhere else.

I would say 3x AA Nathan Burak and 3x AA, 2x finalist Montell Marion (both outside of the top 100) not at the two lighter weights would be better than all that you listed for PSU other than Brown.

 

[BoroBuilt]

I'm a huge Hawks fan, but I think you're spot on. Iowa has to do a better job of maneuvering through the obstacles to get the good recruits, and once we do get them we need to develop them to be champions. I feel that we've done a very mediocre job a taking our talent to it's fullest potential and as such are now sitting in the backseat. Hopefully for Iowa's sake we can right the ship, but whining and bitching about what PSU has isn't accomplishing a thing. TnT and the boys need to get this ship moving in the right direction, and being out-recruited and then not being able to better develop what we do recruit is a problem. For instance, I don't think Kaleb Young, "a Punxsutawney native ranked by InterMat as the 25th-best prospect nationally in the Class of 2016," will ever make our lineup, and when he does happen to fill in, he gets his ass kicked. That's a problem. I'm sure Kaleb was a stud in HS, but for whatever reason Iowa has not been able to develop him (weight, strength, skill set, etc.). Look at Mike Evans: top 5 recruit out of HS; best finish was 6th at NCAAs - failure to develop - never improved during his time at Iowa WRT rankings). Sammy Brooks is another amazing talent that just never improved at Iowa, and I'm talking NCAA placement. Telford's another. These guys were all fricking studs when they got to Iowa and never reached the promise land, nor did they really improve (final NCAA placement) during their tenure. So my question to my fellow Hawk brothers who keep complaining about PSU, WTH are we doing wrong to where we can't develop our talent the way PSU has. I mean Zain wasn't always the dominant badass, but he sure is now and has been the last few years under Cael's supervision. The problem is ours, but we always want to blame PSU and Cael...ugh!!

youre right on. 2 individual champs for Iowa in the last 5 years combined, right? Getting guys from mid aas to champs is what proves development skills and wins team titles. In Zains defense, he was always a killer. Would have been a 3 timer in pa had he not lost a year of competition (the year he won cadet worlds). A champ this year would be a big recruiting chip for Iowa. Especially if a certain freshman finds a way to pull it off.

 

[Mpchillin]

For instance, I don't think Kaleb Young, "a Punxsutawney native ranked by InterMat as the 25th-best prospect nationally in the Class of 2016," will ever make our lineup, and when he does happen to fill in, he gets his ass kicked.

I understand your point but to be fair, every guy he has faced when he got “his ass kicked” filling in at 74 and 65 were pretty highly ranked recruits as well. He has 7 losses this year with 4 being to top 10 recruits (Jordan, Martinez, Sebastian and Valencia) 2 to returning All-Americans (Walsh and Amine) and a SV loss to a returning national qualifier.

 

[Mpchillin]

Sammy Brooks is another amazing talent that just never improved at Iowa, and I'm talking NCAA placement.

Brooks DID improve, he went from R12 to 8th to 4th and was a 2x Big Ten Champ. I agree with your synopsis that they need to improve development but that’s a bad example in my opinion.

 

[dicemen99]

I would say 3x AA Nathan Burak and 3x AA, 2x finalist Montell Marion (both outside of the top 100) not at the two lighter weights would be better than all that you listed for PSU other than Brown.

Other than Brown...OK

If we are going that route, give me a better example of lightweight development at Iowa under Brands than Jordan Conaway...other than Dan Dennis?

 

[Mpchillin]

Other than Brown...OK

If we are going that route, give me a better example of lightweight development at Iowa under Brands than Jordan Conaway...other than Dan Dennis?

Lol why does it have to be other than Dan Dennis?

 

[SansSouci]

Culture and fit. Each area of the country is different. Aaron is an east coast kid. He feels comfortable around like people as most young people do. It’s a little different in the midwestern area. Proximity to home was a deciding factor also, PSU is 2 hours from home. My oldest son went to Iowa Central for a year. He didn’t like being that far away. They’re kids trying to become adults. All are different. Hope that helps. Never any knocks on Iowa from me. Im a big Brands, Gable and Metcalf fan, have always enjoyed Spencer. He and Aaron were on a duals team when Aaron was 7. We have known him every since.

Mama's titty, we get it.

 

[Mpchillin]

For the record Dicemen, I agree with your post but there is some evidence that they can develop outside of the lower two weights. You didn’t even list Molinaro for development so shame on you.

 

[MadTown Hawk]

I have been a Hawk fan my whole life but these threads drive me crazy. I see excuses and whining. There are some absolute facts right now:

1). Penn State has a better wrestling program than Iowa right now. Why? They are winning more national titles than the Hawks.

2). Carl is a better coach than Tom right now. Why? They are winning more national titles than the Hawks.

This is not a subjective issue. Facts are clear. No more excuses and arguing who is the better coach. Hawks just need to win a national title. I have hope they will once again do that. In the mean time I am going to support the Hawks but understand they are no longer the pinnacle of wrestling until proven otherwise.

 

[SansSouci]

Carl is recruiting better, PSU is better. Pretty simple.

I don't want to hear Brooks' goofy ass dad telling us why PSU is better. I hope Brooks flames out, don't care that he'll miss his mama and wants to stay close to the nipple. If you're not with us you're against us. Who cares about Brooks or his candyass reasons. End this thread. On to the man that can beat the man. NEXT.

 

[hawkeye1944]

I have been a Hawk fan my whole life but these threads drive me crazy. I see excuses and whining. There are some absolute facts right now:

1). Penn State has a better wrestling program than Iowa right now. Why? They are winning more national titles than the Hawks.

2). Carl is a better coach than Tom right now. Why? They are winning more national titles than the Hawks.

This is not a subjective issue. Facts are clear. No more excuses and arguing who is the better coach. Hawks just need to win a national title. I have hope they will once again do that. In the mean time I am going to support the Hawks but understand they are no longer the pinnacle of wrestling until proven otherwise.

And why is Phil Jackson considered the greatest coach ever? Because he developed Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman. And then he goes to LA and develops Shaquille O'Neal and Colby Bryant. About the same mentallity as above...
Cael is a good coach but a better recruiter...Is Geno Auriemma the best women's coach of all time. Record wise yes...But more likely the best women's recruiter of all time. He needs to go to the pro's and prove it...

 

[GableEdge]

And why is Phil Jackson considered the greatest coach ever? Because he developed Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman. And then he goes to LA and develops Shaquille O'Neal and Colby Bryant. About the same mentallity as above...
Cael is a good coach but a better recruiter...Is Geno Auriemma the best women's coach of all time. Record wise yes...But more likely the best women's recruiter of all time. He needs to go to the pro's and prove it...

Love me some Colby cheese. Goes great with Kobe beef.

 

[MVPFAN]

Yes. In 2011.

Also, in every season except one so far, they have been ranked #2 or lower before winning the NC.

If Brands just had a kid who was UR coming out of HS beat a #1 in the country, the HR would be doing backflips about his developmental skills.

Iowa was ranked ahead of PSU in recuiting rankings in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013 and 2015, but somehow PSU managed to win five out of six championships on the backs of those classes. (The last championship also featured 2016 and 2017).

If you want to say the Brands have a better track record of developing wrestlers at 125 and 133, you could point to evidence, but so far there is zero evidence of better development skills anywhere else.

James English, Jordan Conaway, Jimmy Vollrath, Matt Brown, Anthony Cassar, Corey Rasheed. Plenty of evidence of PSU developing low or unranked wrestlers into real threats but will go ignored by the majority here.

I described earlier why recruiting class rankings are very very flawed. Obviously Carl's staff can develop too even though they don't have to a whole lot with the prime time guys. Now where they really have been better is in the type of lower ranked kids they have brought in (Cassar for example). They have done well seeing the athlete in a kid, Iowa has sucked at that.

Conaway, Brown and Rasheed were not scrubs in HS. Volrath and English were probably the equivalent of 2-3 time champs in Iowa. Iowa HS wrestling has been average at best. Illinois, Missouri, Minnesota are all getting more kids on the national rankings.

 

[MVPFAN]

I'm a huge Hawks fan, but I think you're spot on. Iowa has to do a better job of maneuvering through the obstacles to get the good recruits, and once we do get them we need to develop them to be champions. I feel that we've done a very mediocre job a taking our talent to it's fullest potential and as such are now sitting in the backseat. Hopefully for Iowa's sake we can right the ship, but whining and bitching about what PSU has isn't accomplishing a thing. TnT and the boys need to get this ship moving in the right direction, and being out-recruited and then not being able to better develop what we do recruit is a problem. For instance, I don't think Kaleb Young, "a Punxsutawney native ranked by InterMat as the 25th-best prospect nationally in the Class of 2016," will ever make our lineup, and when he does happen to fill in, he gets his ass kicked. That's a problem. I'm sure Kaleb was a stud in HS, but for whatever reason Iowa has not been able to develop him (weight, strength, skill set, etc.). Look at Mike Evans: top 5 recruit out of HS; best finish was 6th at NCAAs - failure to develop - never improved during his time at Iowa WRT rankings). Sammy Brooks is another amazing talent that just never improved at Iowa, and I'm talking NCAA placement. Telford's another. These guys were all fricking studs when they got to Iowa and never reached the promise land, nor did they really improve (final NCAA placement) during their tenure. So my question to my fellow Hawk brothers who keep complaining about PSU, WTH are we doing wrong to where we can't develop our talent the way PSU has. I mean Zain wasn't always the dominant badass, but he sure is now and has been the last few years under Cael's supervision. The problem is ours, but we always want to blame PSU and Cael...ugh!!

Brooks and Evans were not especially great athletes (see also Lofthouse, Gambrall, Moore, Meyer etc. slow feet!) they were getting the most out of what they had to give but there is a limit. Telford had injury issues.Your description of Young is disingenuous, he would be in low AA discussion if he could only focus on 165. Imar was the only one to kick his ass there and he has hung in vs some tough guys at 174 being very undersized. I am not so sure he could not be a 157 pounder.

 

[TarpHawk]

Carl is recruiting better, PSU is better. Pretty simple.

I don't want to hear Brooks' goofy ass dad telling us why PSU is better. I hope Brooks flames out, don't care that he'll miss his mama and wants to stay close to the nipple. If you're not with us you're against us. Who cares about Brooks or his candyass reasons. End this thread. On to the man that can beat the man. NEXT.

I think most would agree that Brooks' dad was very gracious in his comments here. I'm a wrestling fan first, member of the tribe second.

 

[ih8iast8]

I am from Iowa and not that far from Iowa Central and I wouldn't like being there either.

Come on, there is plenty to do in Ft Dodge!

 

[cidhawkeye]

Come on, there is plenty to do in Ft Dodge!

There sure is, I would start with getting in a car and heading to Badger to see Tammy and then driving anywhere but back to Dodge.

 

[Gusaford]

Carl is recruiting better, PSU is better. Pretty simple.

I don't want to hear Brooks' goofy ass dad telling us why PSU is better. I hope Brooks flames out, don't care that he'll miss his mama and wants to stay close to the nipple. If you're not with us you're against us. Who cares about Brooks or his candyass reasons. End this thread. On to the man that can beat the man. NEXT.

Keep it classy!

 

[buf87]

PSU does run some of them through in 4 years (without a redshirt). So the scholarship doesn't get used 5 years. Doesn't answer a lot of questions, but it does help

 

[lookleft goright]

Mama's titty, we get it.

Silence isn't a sign of weakness or a bad idea. You might want to give it a try sporadically.

 

[pablow]

Yes. In 2011.

Also, in every season except one so far, they have been ranked #2 or lower before winning the NC.

If Brands just had a kid who was UR coming out of HS beat a #1 in the country, the HR would be doing backflips about his developmental skills.

Iowa was ranked ahead of PSU in recuiting rankings in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013 and 2015, but somehow PSU managed to win five out of six championships on the backs of those classes. (The last championship also featured 2016 and 2017).

If you want to say the Brands have a better track record of developing wrestlers at 125 and 133, you could point to evidence, but so far there is zero evidence of better development skills anywhere else.

James English, Jordan Conaway, Jimmy Vollrath, Matt Brown, Anthony Cassar, Corey Rasheed. Plenty of evidence of PSU developing low or unranked wrestlers into real threats but will go ignored by the majority here.

Cornell was favored in 2011 - yes. However, in a "coaching" move we'll long remember, Cael stole Andrew Long out of rehab and won the title. Thanks for bringing that up.

The recruiting class rankings are garbage. It's all about filling the lineup with top 5 and top 10 studs. We haven't been close to PSU in this regard. I saw "Hoosiers," I know what an underdog is - and it ain't Penn State.

Cael does a great job with his stud wrestlers. I like what he does. Unfortunately, Cael doesn't have to deal with too many project type wrestlers (and he certainly doesn't have to rely on their production to win championships) so we'll never know for sure will we? [Actually, I think Rob Koll does better. TnT have been incredible at 125 &133.]

Winning 6 of the last 7 national championships is a apparently not good enough for some of the Penn State fans. You dicks have to come over to the Iowa board and to themat.com to troll us and Gable's legacy, apparently to achieve some legendary status you haven't earned yet. There's nothing special about Penn State that entitles you to go to the front of the line.

 

[24 so far]

Carl is recruiting better, PSU is better. Pretty simple.

I don't want to hear Brooks' goofy ass dad telling us why PSU is better. I hope Brooks flames out, don't care that he'll miss his mama and wants to stay close to the nipple. If you're not with us you're against us. Who cares about Brooks or his candyass reasons. End this thread. On to the man that can beat the man. NEXT.

Don't know Mr.Brooks or his son. As far as I know they are fine individuals. That said, the part I agree with is you're either with us or against us, and he's not a Hawkeye, so there ya go.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Cornell was favored in 2011 - yes. However, in a "coaching" move we'll long remember, Cael stole Andrew Long out of rehab and won the title. Thanks for bringing that up.

The recruiting class rankings are garbage. It's all about filling the lineup with top 5 and top 10 studs. We haven't been close to PSU in this regard. I saw "Hoosiers," I know what an underdog is - and it ain't Penn State.

Cael does a great job with his stud wrestlers. I like what he does. Unfortunately, Cael doesn't have to deal with too many project type wrestlers (and he certainly doesn't have to rely on their production to win championships) so we'll never know for sure will we? [Actually, I think Rob Koll does better. TnT have been incredible at 125 &133.]

Winning 6 of the last 7 national championships is a apparently not good enough for some of the Penn State fans. You dicks have to come over to the Iowa board and to themat.com to troll us and Gable's legacy, apparently to achieve some legendary status you haven't earned yet. There's nothing special about Penn State that entitles you to go to the front of the line.

Look at the title of this thread. You guys have more Penn State threads at the top of your board then anything else. Of course PSU fans are going to post, especially when there are so many attacks and accusations. If you guys didn't talk about PSU so much, there would't be so many PSU posters, its really that simple.

 

[bbwretler]

Look at the title of this thread. You guys have more Penn State threads at the top of your board then anything else. Of course PSU fans are going to post, especially when there are so many attacks and accusations. If you guys didn't talk about PSU so much, there would't be so many PSU posters, its really that simple.

There is one thing you do so very well and that’s rationalizing your defensive positions on things. You just won a huge meet and your wrestlers performed over and above expectations. Why aren’t you on your site posting all the positives that took place last Sunday? Instead there are more psu posters here than Hawkeye posters. For me if I want to read the psu take on things I woud go to your site, which I have never done and never will do. Your posters must be so very insecure to be here in mass defending everthing you read. Not sure why you would expect to come here and read how great you are. Explanation for your obsession with being on our site must be your insecurity and need to constantly defend. One thing you do accomplish is keeping hawk posters off as many of us are not interested in your defensive, rationalizing rants here. Only other reason the number of psu posters continues to grow here is if your site has been closed or is just so boring no one goes there.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

I am from Iowa and not that far from Iowa Central and I wouldn't like being there either. Good luck to your family, sounds like you have taken a solid approach which is a great thing.

Iowa City > Fort Dodge.

Iowa City is a great city. Much different vibe than most of Iowa.

 

[Mpchillin]

PSU does run some of them through in 4 years (without a redshirt). So the scholarship doesn't get used 5 years. Doesn't answer a lot of questions, but it does help

This just isn’t true, the only one that might qualify for this statement is Mark Hall and it’s yet to be seen if he takes a redshirt. I believe every other guy has redshirted at some point.

 

[LumbeeIndian]

Don't know Mr.Brooks or his son. As far as I know they are fine individuals. That said, the part I agree with is you're either with us or against us, and he's not a Hawkeye, so there ya go.

So you agree that some of your fellow Hawk fans are complete idiots for thinking the fans in State College should be showing Spencer Lee some love this weekend...