Lee who left school early and did not compete. Great example, lol.
Brooks to PSU
- Thread starter therasslinfan
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Lee who left school early and did not compete. Great example, lol.
Zain was a risky move for Cael. He was only a World Cadet FS gold medalist. Plus, he "only won 2" state titles in PA, a state known for low quality competition. Winning 3 state titles in Alabama or Nevada would've been so much more impressive.
ss7 - yet another PSU troll
Plus Zain had to sit out a year and won a little thing called the Cadet World Championship.
I wish Mr Brooks would expand on what he means by culture and fit. I would hope Iowa would be a fit for any top level wrestler who can qualify for college and not be a trouble maker.
I didn't pick state championships as the measure. I didn't say Cael would never sniff a 2X state champ. I didn't make my point by comparing a squad with 2.4 championships per starter to one with 2.6 championships per starter. That 0.2 is a very important difference.
Sorry. You guys just keep saying whatever you want.
What you do is misdirection and cherry pick mostly irrelevant stats.
Here's what's relevant.... Zain was a blue ribbon, top 10 p4p recruit coming out of HS, #3 overall, and ranked ahead of J'Den Cox, IMar and Tomasello. Not to mention, Zain was a former World Cadet FS champ.
Zain was absolutely top tier coming out of HS. And the same can be said of almost everyone in PSU's lineup.
Cael's clearly winning the recruiting game. If he doesn't start with the best, Cael's magic fairy dust doesn't seem to work so well.
The big question is, is Cael's recruiting success happening on a level playing field? There is no proof (yet) of financial mischief, but many are wondering how he does it.
To say Cael didn't get it done at ISU is not fair. I would argue he did every bit as good there as 95% of the coaches are doing today. And, as is being said here repeatedly, he did it without top recruits.
In 2007, during Sanderson's rookie campaign, he led ISU to a 13-3 dual meet record and the first of three straight Big 12 Championships. An outstanding NCAA runner-up finish in Detroit capped off a wildly successful year as the Cyclones crowned one national champion and Sanderson was honored as Big 12 Coach of the Year, National Rookie Coach of the Year and National Coach of the Year. The next year, Sanderson led ISU to a 16-4 dual meet mark, another Big 12 title and a fifth place finish at nationals. Iowa State's seven All-Americans in 2008 were the most at the school since 1993.
In 2009, Sanderson's team went 15-3 in duals, won its third straight Big 12 title and took third place at the NCAA Championships in St. Louis (just 12 points out of first place). The Cyclones also crowned another National Champion. In three years at Iowa State, Sanderson's teams went 44-10, won three conference crowns, qualified all 30 wrestlers for nationals, earned 15 All-American awards and two individual national titles.
three years with three top 5 finishes and, amazingly, 30 out of 30 qualifiers.
So you are saying without great recruits he is Tom Brands?
Contrary to what is being said here repeatedly, Cael had top recruits at ISU. He had more top 10 guys at ISU during that timeframe than Iowa did.
I don't know that he is.
I don't know how you could really compare the two objectively.
Both are hands down the best coach of their period.
Both got pretty much all the recruits they wanted.
And both have run circles around their contemporaries.
I wasn't trying to offer insights. I was just pointing out that there really wasn't a meaningful difference in the number of state championships accumulated by the two rosters.
I don't really think that's all that insightful. Just reality.
Yea, I never understood how his time at ISU as head coach can be viewed as anything but positive. As a green, twenty something HC, he had very similar results to what the Brands have produced over the past 7 years. Considering Iowa has the much bigger name and more resources then ISU, seems to me Sanderson's short career at ISU can only be viewed as really successful. Especially if you look at their results for several years prior to him being hired and several years after.
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Exactly.
At ISU, Cael did a good job. But he was never able to win a team title.
At PSU, Cael's success has reached the statosphere. Not coincidentally, the number of top 10 recruits PSU grabs nearly every year has soared.
So, if Cael wants to be considered the best coach, he needs to get worse at recruiting.
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Dang! He was good at Iowa State! Didnt Varner win a title there? Also, David Taylor was signed by Iowa State! How in the world did they let him leave Iowa State?
But would Cael win at Northwestern like Pariano or Storniolo are doing?LOL
So, Carl was there for three years on another coach's recruiting cycle (a good friend of his who he dicked over), then left before establishing himself?
Sorta right, but needs clarification. How Cael is able to get so many top recruits under the 9.9 scholly limit is something of a mystery.
Without starting out with the lion's share of top recruits, Cael doesn't win titles.
Guess you missed the part where he played 2nd fiddle to TB and the Hawks. No where near what is transpiring at PSU. Couldn't get it done there! If it was so amazing he would have stayed at his alma mater. He knew he was second fiddle and got boat raced out of Ames. I will give you this, he has MUCH better funding at PSU!
Culture and fit. Each area of the country is different. Aaron is an east coast kid. He feels comfortable around like people as most young people do. It’s a little different in the midwestern area. Proximity to home was a deciding factor also, PSU is 2 hours from home. My oldest son went to Iowa Central for a year. He didn’t like being that far away. They’re kids trying to become adults. All are different. Hope that helps. Never any knocks on Iowa from me. Im a big Brands, Gable and Metcalf fan, have always enjoyed Spencer. He and Aaron were on a duals team when Aaron was 7. We have known him every since.
you lose any credibility as a poster when you need to ‘solidify’ your argument with #2
Thanks for the feedback, that you by no means had to provide. As passionate fans we always want to know the reasons why we miss out on highly talented kids like your son. Although I think he'd look much better in the black and gold, I wish him nothing but the best moving forward.
Psu will have the same amount of pa native starters next year. Zain and Keener leave and Teasdale and Verkleeren move in. 4 our of ten of last years ncaa champs were from pa. All underclassmen, 3 at psu. Location has a lot to do with penn state’s success.
I would guess that Brooks coming in may have been a factor (that commit has been assumed for awhile). He did an interview saying that he regretted not visiting ok st the first time around and loved Stillwater when he finally took his official. Obviously Iowa wasn’t in his top 2 choices.
rossel, you are a walking defense mechanism, rivaled only by jammanz. Here's a "fun" fact for you to suppress:
Iowa has finished behind a team other than PSU for each of the last 7 years. During that time frame Iowa has had THREE #1 recruiting classes.
btw, how about that non 100 recruit from Penn State knocking off #1 in the country!?
That's the whole point and something the PSU fans that drop in here think is a backhanded compliment. Recruiting is a part of college coaching. It is what makes Cael the best coach in college wrestling. Unless you changed your screenname, you are new so its been an ongoing debate here which is Tom is better at developing, Cael at recruiting. Developing doesn't cut bait anymore because so many of these elite guys are ready to roll and contend before they step into a college room. Spencer Lee would have been just as good at tOSU,PSU etc as he is right now. However, he is going to have to improve to totally dominate the weight class week in and week out and go out and win a World Title.
I think Cael does a great job bringing along his bluechip wrestlers. However, his mediocre wrestlers look similar to other team's average wrestlers.
I'm a new commenter, but a long time lurker.
And I just find it funny to say that Cael is too good at one aspect of his job to be considered the best at his job.
I'll go back to what I said above. Gable and Cael are clearly the best coaches of their eras. Both got pretty much all the recruits they wanted. Making objective statements about who is the best developer of wrestling talent across different eras is nearly impossible.
There seems to be this notion that Gable won with a bunch of kids he found in the parking lot at a Safeway, while Cael has won with the best high school recruit every year at every weight. Neither is true. Gable got plenty of studs. Cael has plenty of kids who "only" won two state titles.
Interestingly, the PSU lineup that just beat OSU had 5 top 10 P4P (maybe 6, I can't remember if Lee was) compared to OSU's 8 top 10 P4P recruits.
And let's be honest here. It is absolutely a backhanded compliment.
Cael coaching vs recruiting discussion
Is this a serious question? Almost every year the rankers have had another team ranked 1st for big chunks of the year. Back 5 or 6 years ago Minnesota and okie state both had a shot going into the finals (Gwiz beat Nelson that year). Last year Ohio state won bigs and people were picking against psu as soon as Suriano was ruled out. They wound up blowing out the field without a potential finalist at 125.
So PSU has been the underdog almost every year. Learn something new every day. The legend grows.
I don't think it's the gold standard. But it is one of the only consistent standards.
I don't know where to find P4P recruit rankings going back to the 1970s. If you know where I can find them, please share.
But to answer your question, IAChief32's post referencing state championships is what led me to reference them as well.
So, when people say that Cael gets more top 10 P4P recruits than Gable did...the fact that one of those is measurable and one isn't (instead it is "winged") doesn't give you pause?
Cael isn't the coach Gable is because Cael gets more top 10 P4P recruits than Gable got, even though we don't actually know how many top 10 P4P recruits Gable got.
That's a less than convincing argument to me. But that's just me.
Thats why I included Gillis...second team ASICS. Joe, Mac and Mena were nationally credentialed. Winning two state championships in the state of Iowa or winning 4 in South Dakota doesn't mean much if there are no national credentials now. For example, the fall after Cenzo won his first state championship, he's wrestling in Who's #1 against Stroker (I believe). Why? Because of his results in freestyle and PA being the best high school wrestling state. Back then, it was one of the few ways to measure somebody.
Also, our friend SS7 is complete ignoring what I wrote about it being different...about how much more knowledge we have of recruits vs then. For example, a California 4 timer would have been heavily recruited in the 90s. But quite a few folks took a flyer on Mejia after he decommitted from Iowa. Flo was dubious of him because of no freestyle and no national tourney wins like Super 32...which started in the mid 90s. SS7 leapt on the state championship thing and is being disingenuous...It's like saying Manville never won a state title...because he was at a prep school. I guess I should have s-p-e-l-l-e-d it out...my bad.
By my quick count, there were 26 former top-10 recruits at the NCAA tournament last year.
Six of them won titles. Five of the six wrestle for the same coach.
If I'm an elite recruit looking for the coach who will help me reach my potential, that's the only data point I need.
Six of them won titles. Five of the six wrestle for the same coach.
If I'm an elite recruit looking for the coach who will help me reach my potential, that's the only data point I need.
