CJ Signs w/ Kentucky. Iowa Claiming Tampering? Level II Violation when 3rd Party Contacts a School When Athlete Discussed Enrolled at Another School
- Thread starter Franisdaman
- Start date
.April 20 Update:
Original Post:
I am not accusing anyone of anything. However, tampering keeps getting brought up when it comes to CJ Fredrick and Kentucky.
Well, I have done some research on tampering and what follows is what I have discovered.
Note that it is not until the athlete’s name appears in the transfer portal that other schools are allowed to contact the athlete about transferring. Coaches cannot interact with players who are enrolled at another school. They can’t contact family members or take calls from family members about athletes who want to transfer until those names are entered into the portal.
However, the rumors of CJ Fredrick to Kentucky have been around for months now (since February). Wouldn't that require a representative from the Fredrick family having a discussion or discussions w/ a representative from Kentucky?
Here are some examples of those not so secret rumors:
(1) Jack Pilgrim is a Kentucky basketball beat writer and he even admits it.
(2) Matt Jones is the creator & host of Kentucky Sports Radio. He has known for a while that there was plenty of smoke to the rumors. Drew Franklin, by the way is also part of Kentucky Sports Radio.
How did Drew know about CJ to Kentucky for weeks????
ONE PROBLEM. The NCAA prohibits coaches from purposefully contacting (or being contacted by) athletes or their families while that athlete is enrolled at another school. (Incidental contact not intended to entice a player from a program is considered a minor violation.)
When coaches tamper with an athlete at another school with the intent to lure that athlete to their own school, it is considered a Level II violation, which the NCAA describes as a “significant breach of conduct.”
The NCAA holds the head coach responsible for Level II violations in his/her program.
Level II violations, defined by the NCAA:
Violations that provide or are intended to provide more than a minimal but less than a substantial or extensive recruiting, competitive or other advantage; includes more than a minimal but less than a substantial or extensive impermissible benefit; or involves conduct that may compromise the integrity of the NCAA collegiate model as set forth in the Constitution and bylaws.
The NCAA does not specifically refer to “tampering” in its bylaws, but it prohibits coaches from engaging, essentially, in poaching practices.
Tampering is defined as significant and/or numerous impermissible contacts with a student-athlete who is enrolled at another school, with the intent of recruiting them to transfer assuming that (under current NCAA rules) the student-athlete in question has not informed their current school of their intent to transfer or has not entered the transfer portal.
In Oct. 2018, the NCAA moved to create a transfer portal so that:
* A Division I athlete simply needed to inform the coaching staff and the compliance department that he/she wanted to transfer.
* Within 2 days, that athlete’s name would appear in the transfer portal.
* Once the athlete's name appears in the transfer portal, other schools would be allowed to contact the athlete about transferring.
In enacting the simpler “transfer portal” legislation, the NCAA continued to warn against potential tampering situations, which are often suspected among coaches but seldom pursued. Coaches cannot interact with players who are enrolled at another school. They can’t contact family members or take calls from family members about athletes who want to transfer until those names are entered into the transfer portal.
An athletic program that believes one of its student-athletes had been tampered with could report the potential violation by contacting its conference, by contacting the offending school or by reporting its suspicions directly to the NCAA.
Schools are obligated to self-report violations when they discover that violations have occurred. However, there are multiple ways in which the NCAA could be informed of a potential violation occurring, including from individuals with knowledge of the situation, opposing coaches/schools, etc.
Here is a similar story, where Seton Hall tampered & lured a player away from Syracuse.
Fallout from Seton Hall tampering with former Syracuse forward Taurean Thompson could continue
Thompson, who played one year at Syracuse before transferring to Seton Hall, has been at the center of an NCAA probe into tampering allegations.www.syracuse.com
Easy solution to fix tampering - With evidence of proof of communication, remove 1 scholarship for a year. That'll learn them. And if not make it two years!
Yeah, there is a rule against Kentucky telling CJ in February that if he puts his name in the portal in April they will sign him.
It's a joke. As I posted above, the Kentucky Sports media knew this was all in the works in February. And that's why Patrick posted "what's done in the dark (in Feb) will come to light." And that's why Fran issued a ONE SENTENCE statement that CJ was transferring. And that's why UI Compliance tweeted yesterday about tampering, a Level II violation, which obviously occurred in this case.
I wonder what UK Compliance thinks? Again, what a joke these NCAA rules are.
Joe Fredrick tweeted last month that "help is on the way."
If the NCAA is not going to enforce any of these rules, then lets not have them.
And the player involved can’t sign with that school and sits a year
Does CJ have parents other than his uncle?
Unless I'm missing something (i.e. a private post), it appears that Joe Fredrick's "shot" at the Iowa program that he posted on Facebook has been deleted.
Part of the big week ahead for Kentucky basketball that he is referring to is trying to steal Orlando Antigua back from Illinois. They think it’s a done deal. Will be interesting.
The Fox in the henhouse saying we did nothing. Can’t trust anyone in the fredrichs family.
So, that's what the Kentucky Sports radio guy meant when he wrote that "the first piece falls"?
How many "pieces" are there, I wonder?
Do you Illini fans assume there was tampering as early as February, as well?
We knew Cal and Kentucky were sleezy, but man....
Yeah, there is no doubt if he was willing to contact the Iowa coaching staff about issues he had that he (or someone on his behalf) would be contacting other schools to see if there would be interest in CJ if he entered his name in the portal.
Sleeze ball Uncle Joe got caught. And when sleeze balls get caught, they deny, deny, deny.
he was mostly likely talking about the incoming freshman class. it's not that complicated to understand his comment.March 2nd, folks.
I completely agree with you. It sucks because the one thing CJ was best at, 3 point shooting, will probably be our biggest weakness next year. However, if Uncle Joe was bitching about a team that was ranked in the top ten virtually all year, then what in the world would he be saying if we struggled a bit next year?
It's one thing for us numbskulls to criticize a coach from our couch, it's another thing when a family member thinks he knows better and infiltrates a team because of it.
In light of CJ entering the portal this week and being contacted by the school Joe was referencing on 3/3, what makes you think Joe was referencing incoming freshman recruits? This situation is very complicated.
nice first post, Kentucky fan.
just seems more likely, assuming he is a Kentucky fan, than hinting at CJ's transfer. we're all just guessing either way, but the repetitive claims you are all making seems over the top to me. that's all.
nope. i'm an Iowa alum with no Kentucky allegiance, and been lurking here for years. This thread just urged me to say something, and i'm done. lol
If you look back on Joe Fredricks Facebook back on March 3rd on a screenshot from a Chad L tweet where Fred Hoiberg calls CJF one of the most underrated players in the country he even admits that CJ has a tough offseason coming up and a big school decision.
I am not on Twitter and have no knowledge of who Joe supports. He did play at Notre Dame and was a huge supporter of Fran and subsequently Iowa until the last few months. The timing is what I question. Joe posts that help is on the way to the Kentucky faithful around the same time other people close to the Kentucky program are posting that CJ will be transferring to Kentucky. This cannot be a coincidence.
I have no issue with CJ transferring to Kentucky to be closer to home because that was his dream school, if that is the case. My frustration is if CJ was telling Fran he was staying while debating entering the portal as this put Iowa behind the eight ball in replacing CJ on the roster. I am not in the know, but the indicators I have seen point to Fran not expecting CJ to leave this year.
yeah it seems there probably was some talk, and seriously I think most transfers talk through some 'mechanism' to get a feel for interest. Head coaches are not stupid, they aren't going to send text messages saying hey we will take you if you transfer (O some are that stupid LOL). But I seriously doubt anything like bags of money being exchanged or a new house or assistant coaching job for Uncle Joe at Kentucky were involved. Seems like the kid wanted to leave and he did, did he handle it perfectly, no, but the infractions if any are likely hard to prove and minor compared to the other shh that goes on. Now it would raise some eyebrows if Kentucky announces new assistant coach Uncle Joe
Joe's son went to school at UK. If you look on Joe's Facebook back on March 3rd he states CJ will have a tough offseason getting healthy and has big school decision. Unfortunately this has been in the works while the team was grinding down the stretch.
And they don't. Many are already talking about it and calling Iowa petty. This will be used against Iowa in recruiting. CJ and his uncle seem very shady but Iowa Basketball and the fans need to let this go. If you have proof of a violation, report it and then zip your mouth. Something Bohannon and Conner should have done on twitter this year.
Fanbases nationwide would be saying the exact same thing. Dick Vitale is saying the exact same thing. Also, Fran put out a statement that said CJ was transferring. That's it. Yea, he didn't wish him well, but Fran hasn't said anything directly negative either. At worst, Fran put out a completely neutral statement.
Calling that statement "petty" and recruitment poison is a bit overblown.
Cal admits he should be fired for tampering.
From March 2020:
From March 2020:
Your 2nd part is exactly why Fran let alone the Iowa fan base is ticked off. You think if he was just straight up front and honest after the year that Fran wouldn't have sung a different tune? Fran has had plenty of guys leave for different reasons and one already this year with Nunge. We saw this same thing happen with Moss leaving to go to KU and even though I'm sure wasn't happy Fran supported Moss' decision and wished him well. Throw in the relationship with CJ's uncle and all the timing I'm sure he feels like he just got stabbed in the back hardcore. Plus Iowa has missed out on going after some quality replacements in the portal.
To me it's like when you leave a job. Even though it could be uncomfortable with your boss you go in and tell him man to man you are leaving and why and put your 2 week notice. Don't be one of those guys who quits via email on 1 day notice.
Here is how Iowa has communicated in their last 8 transfers, before CJ’s (from Jon Miller).
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Again, I just don't get the response by Iowa here. Pollard gets accused of being a whiner and you have Iowa's compliance department twitter passive aggressively trolling and the 1 sentence announcement by Fran.
Kylie Feuerbach posted to the transfer portal that she was leaving on April 5th shocking both the staff and her teammates. By April 6th or 7th we basically knew she was going to Iowa. If you want to think they worked all that out in 1 day I have beachfront property for you in Muscatine.
Kylie Feuerbach posted to the transfer portal that she was leaving on April 5th shocking both the staff and her teammates. By April 6th or 7th we basically knew she was going to Iowa. If you want to think they worked all that out in 1 day I have beachfront property for you in Muscatine.
I've not seen a single report from a reliable source stating anything other than Fran was blindsided by this. I've seen posters do some mental gymnastics to make CJs statement sound like his hand was forced but absolutely no one with connections suggesting that was the case.
Well I have zero idea about Kylie Feuerbach but were there rumors about her transferring to Iowa in February or March? Are we saying that Iowa was talking to her or her family during the season?
It appears that she knew where she wanted to go. You are saying that Iowa recruited her and THAT is false. She recruited Iowa.
This is the opposite of what happened with CJ. He had been at Iowa 3 years already. He had never expressed an interest in leaving, in fact he offered to walk on at Iowa. And the yalk of tampering started almost 2 months before he even talked to his coach about leaving.
So CJ was intentionally/unintentionally stringing Fran along while being strung along by the school he wanted to go to?
The kid that wore the hat was proven to be in the right. The Native American was the instigator of that incident and I think the kid won money for suing about it.
What if the athlete contacts the transferring school? Is that still "contact" under the bylaws? I wonder if CJ initiating contacts makes it allowable...just asking.April 20 Update:
Original Post:
I am not accusing anyone of anything. However, tampering keeps getting brought up when it comes to CJ Fredrick and Kentucky.
Well, I have done some research on tampering and what follows is what I have discovered.
Note that it is not until the athlete’s name appears in the transfer portal that other schools are allowed to contact the athlete about transferring. Coaches cannot interact with players who are enrolled at another school. They can’t contact family members or take calls from family members about athletes who want to transfer until those names are entered into the portal.
However, the rumors of CJ Fredrick to Kentucky have been around for months now (since February). Wouldn't that require a representative from the Fredrick family having a discussion or discussions w/ a representative from Kentucky?
Here are some examples of those not so secret rumors:
(1) Jack Pilgrim is a Kentucky basketball beat writer and he even admits it.
(2) Matt Jones is the creator & host of Kentucky Sports Radio. He has known for a while that there was plenty of smoke to the rumors. Drew Franklin, by the way is also part of Kentucky Sports Radio.
How did Drew know about CJ to Kentucky for weeks????
ONE PROBLEM. The NCAA prohibits coaches from purposefully contacting (or being contacted by) athletes or their families while that athlete is enrolled at another school. (Incidental contact not intended to entice a player from a program is considered a minor violation.)
When coaches tamper with an athlete at another school with the intent to lure that athlete to their own school, it is considered a Level II violation, which the NCAA describes as a “significant breach of conduct.”
The NCAA holds the head coach responsible for Level II violations in his/her program.
Level II violations, defined by the NCAA:
Violations that provide or are intended to provide more than a minimal but less than a substantial or extensive recruiting, competitive or other advantage; includes more than a minimal but less than a substantial or extensive impermissible benefit; or involves conduct that may compromise the integrity of the NCAA collegiate model as set forth in the Constitution and bylaws.
The NCAA does not specifically refer to “tampering” in its bylaws, but it prohibits coaches from engaging, essentially, in poaching practices.
Tampering is defined as significant and/or numerous impermissible contacts with a student-athlete who is enrolled at another school, with the intent of recruiting them to transfer assuming that (under current NCAA rules) the student-athlete in question has not informed their current school of their intent to transfer or has not entered the transfer portal.
In Oct. 2018, the NCAA moved to create a transfer portal so that:
* A Division I athlete simply needed to inform the coaching staff and the compliance department that he/she wanted to transfer.
* Within 2 days, that athlete’s name would appear in the transfer portal.
* Once the athlete's name appears in the transfer portal, other schools would be allowed to contact the athlete about transferring.
In enacting the simpler “transfer portal” legislation, the NCAA continued to warn against potential tampering situations, which are often suspected among coaches but seldom pursued. Coaches cannot interact with players who are enrolled at another school. They can’t contact family members or take calls from family members about athletes who want to transfer until those names are entered into the transfer portal.
An athletic program that believes one of its student-athletes had been tampered with could report the potential violation by contacting its conference, by contacting the offending school or by reporting its suspicions directly to the NCAA.
Schools are obligated to self-report violations when they discover that violations have occurred. However, there are multiple ways in which the NCAA could be informed of a potential violation occurring, including from individuals with knowledge of the situation, opposing coaches/schools, etc.
Here is a similar story, where Seton Hall tampered & lured a player away from Syracuse.
Fallout from Seton Hall tampering with former Syracuse forward Taurean Thompson could continue
Thompson, who played one year at Syracuse before transferring to Seton Hall, has been at the center of an NCAA probe into tampering allegations.
