Well, that was predictable. And unfortunate.
This thread is headed down the crapper.
This thread is headed down the crapper.
COVID-19 Thread
- Thread starter Kwoodhawk
- Start date
Not looking good for health care workers
Spain has 5400 health care workers infected out of just under 40,000 cases
Italy has 4,000 health care workers infected out of about 69,000 cases.
They also have 23 Doctors who have died trying to save patients.
And according to a new Decree in Italy they forsee restrictions until July 31st.
The first death here in the St. Louis region is a Nurse who worked at SSSM Health St. Mary's Hospital.
Doctors here rationing tests, and having a lot of trouble getting masks, etc.
One Dr. actually making masks at home at night.
St. Louis is not exactly some rural, hard to find location that should have trouble getting Medical supplies.
Last edited:
Some really good heartwarming news.
Several local Breweries and distilleries have started making hand sanitizer and donating it.
4 Hands Brewing dropped off 144 Gallons at St. Louis City Hall for use by workers who keep the City Government working. They plan on making another 1,000 gallons right away and sell only to those on the front lines fighting the virus like Doctors offices, Grocery stores, Quicktrip, etc.
Another local Distillery has made and donated hand sanitizer to local Senior Centers, Food Banks and Fire Stations.
Annheuser-Busch has started making it also and is going to be working with the American Red Cross to distribute it to communities most in need.
Several local Breweries and distilleries have started making hand sanitizer and donating it.
4 Hands Brewing dropped off 144 Gallons at St. Louis City Hall for use by workers who keep the City Government working. They plan on making another 1,000 gallons right away and sell only to those on the front lines fighting the virus like Doctors offices, Grocery stores, Quicktrip, etc.
Another local Distillery has made and donated hand sanitizer to local Senior Centers, Food Banks and Fire Stations.
Annheuser-Busch has started making it also and is going to be working with the American Red Cross to distribute it to communities most in need.
Last edited:
That’s great news because I can’t find soap, sanitizer, or aloe in local stores or on Amazon (until May delivery).Some really good heartwarming news.
Several local Breweries and distilleries have started making hand sanitizer and donating it.
4 Hands Brewing dropped off 144 Gallons at St. Louis City Hall for use by workers who keep the City Government working. They plan on making another 1,000 gallons right away and sell only to those on the front lines fighting the virus like Doctors offices, Grocery stores, Quicktrip, etc.
Another local Distillery has made and donated hand sanitizer to local Senior Centers, Food Banks and Fire Stations.
Annheuser-Busch has started making it also and is going to be wworking with the american Red Cross to distribute it to communities most in need.
Agreed, but at some point we do need to get back to work and back to our lives. Work, education, leisure, etc. are all part of a healthy lifestyle. Though Sickness and death are sad, they are also part of life. This has always been true and always will be true. When is the right time? That's the trillion dollar question. We've seen leaders say things like "If we save even one life, it will be worth it!" No. Good God, no. That would be every bit as ridiculous as removing all restrictions today. The steps we are taking today are almost exclusively related to not overrunning hospital beds and the healthcare system--reducing the stress, flattening the curve, whatever. Many do not realize these steps aren't only sort of indirectly about preventing sickness and death. Sickness and death are part of the flat curve as well.
Once we have a good feel that we are over that hump, we need to continue to exercise caution. But we also need to get back to work and back to life.
Last edited:
i agree with 99.9% of what you posted. But you lost me here. Can you please remind me of how we effectively treat COVID19?
SPOONER can answer for himself....
But I think the treatment is currently Social distancing and self quarantine.....
And after that I think it is a tube down your throat in an ICU ward........
However some Hospitals in New York are currently giving intravenous Vitamin C in trials along with "cocktails of off label drugs. So some progress in attempts at treatments.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/new-york-hospitals-treating-coronavirus-patients-with-vitamin-c/
the only Country on Earth that has kicked this in the ass is South Korea and they did so by testing the shit out of everyone and quarantining the sick. tUSA certainly could have taken this approach, we definitely have the resources and infrastructure.
Rather than close all University Science labs, equip them to do the tests. The thermocycler needed is not unique, the reagents aren’t expensive, and the expertise needed to do RT-PCR is insignificant. You would have kept people at work and created an influx of manufacturing in the private sector for companies like IDT.
and then spooner is right, you wouldn’t have to quarantine everyone.
I would think individuals will make that kind of determination for themselves in their own lives according to their individual circumstances. Some may take their chances and others may be cautious for a long time.
Some areas of the Country may escape major impact and get back to work sooner than others.
I think currently only 13 States have "stay at home" orders. Missouri does not, however St. Louis and some surrounding counties do.
Unfortunately I just read today that the Cruise ship off Japan that had the massive amount of infections early on is just leaving Port today and scientist have still found traces of the virus on it.
So it can apparently last on surfaces for a much greater time than the flu and could pose additional problems in the future from outbreaks cropping up in areas without being able to trace it or track it down to try and stop transmission of it.
finding traces of the virus (RNA) and a viral load in a droplet significantly high enough to cause disease, are entirely different things. You could certainly find E. coli DNA fragments in any adequately sanitized public swimming pool...
Some 90% of those who are confirmed to have it don't require hospitalization. Project that to the number who are thought to have it but haven't been tested/confirmed and we're talking about a much small percentage yet that require hospitalization. Those who do not need the hospital address the symptoms until they get over it. I think that given your expertise, your definition of "treatable" is probably more clinical than mine.
C'mon, Kwood. You have to be better than this.
Heart warming story....
When I started working at my current position, I was given some hand sanitizer. I never use the stuff, so when a co-worker asked about it, I gave it to them. That was months ago. But that bottle of hand sanitizer ended up back on my desk the other day before we were all directed to work from home. And I’m not even sure who I gave it to back in life before Covid.
Curious about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. Seems like a pretty random combination of drugs for a viral infection, but whatever works. Both pretty safe drugs. Interested to see how this pans out, as anecdotal reports seem encouraging.
in that anecdotal report from france, 4 of the people in the study were not included in the results becauase they did not respond to the treatment. And one of those four died. So that’s a death rate of 1/24 in the trx group, and at best COVID kills 1/50 that are not trx. This is EXACTLY why we do clinical trials.
encouraging? This is why peer review is needed and editors of journals shouldn’t be allowed to backdoor papers into their own journals.
did you read the rest of my post? There is no viable, safe treatment for those that are sick. So our only option is to test the shit out if EVERYONE and only quarantine the sick. I AGREE with you that we should have some type of normalcy in all of this but we will be remiss if we do so haphazardly. To do this, we have to come to terms with the facts that the numbers will go up if we increase testing. But if increased testing allows people to get back to work, then that’s a necessary reality to face.
I guess I'm a little lost, but it's probably just in the translation. I consider the recommendations given to those not admitted to the hospital and under quarantine at home to be "treatment." Rest, liquids, pain killers, cold meds, etc.
that treats the symptoms not the disease. It’s called supportive care. We have no treatment for the viral infection.
quarantine is a method of disease prevention. It’s the difference between abstinence and plan b.
Again, I think there is a cultural advantage in that Koreans regularly deal with these types of sicknesses as it relates to a large population densities in small areas. How many Americans do you see walking around with a mask and all gloved up? I spent two years in Korea, 95-96 and 02-03...it wasn’t unusual to see it at all. Many people use public transportation, live in cramped apt buildings combined with lousy sanitation...these types of illnesses play a factor in everyday life on the ROK. This is not their first rodeo.
and if you were there in 02-03, they lived through the first SARS epidemic then. We could learn a lot from them on how to handle this well
the treatment for the viral infection will be a vaccine. We don’t want that rushed, or it will just be more ammunition for the antivaccine nuts. If a SARSCOV2 vaccine is 40-50% effective like our best influenza vaccines, it will make a big difference in decreasing the burdens on our healthcare system.
my wifes hospital has there first Covid patient now, and they only have two ventilators. I asked her if she was scared. She said she wasn’t scared of contracting it. She said she’s scared of what she will have to to do when she inevitably has to refuse care to someone in the community because they don’t have the supportive care to take care of them.
This vaccine should be much more effective than flu vaccines. We only need the vaccine to prevent one known virus, unlike flu vaccines which need to prevent 4-5 different strains of flu each season and some years certain strains are not predicted and there is little or no protection for that strain. Covid-19 is showing no signs of mutation thus far which is also very important. Assuming all holds true, this vaccine should be greater that 90% effective similar to other viruses like measles, rubella, etc.
actually this is the internet and a free society, so this thread is whatever it ends up being by whomever posts it. Unless, internet-cop, someone promoted you.
I agree with everything you wrote. Except COVID19 has mutated. There were possibly two distinct strains in China.
RNA viruses are CONSTANTLY mutating.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567134820300915
this second paper says that the first made some conclusions that are overreaching, to conclude that there are now two sub-types of SARSCOV2. What is interesting here is the phylogenetic analysis in this paper that shows the mutants that differ by geography. Whether or not there are two different subtypes is still up for debate but it definitely mutates like all other RNA viruses.
http://virological.org/t/response-to-on-the-origin-and-continuing-evolution-of-sars-cov-2/418
these mutations happen in the flu as well. But to your point, influenza has a segmented genome and can have significant genetic drift, ie strains like H1N1 or H3N2. Coronavirus genomes are not segmented like influenza, and there genetic diversity would largely be due to errors in RNA synthesis alone.
You’ve beaten me into submission.
Original post edited. Wasn’t in any way the crux of the post.Take a look at this for a more realistic comparison of numbers. Everyone see these numbers by themselves and say "WOW". But the current numbers are not that big. Note the portion below where he states 80% Are naturally immune. Can that be true? Stunning if so.
POSTED ON MARCH 25, 2020 BY JOHN HINDERAKER IN CORONAVIRUS
COVID-19 FATALITIES SO FAR
In anticipation of tonight’s Power Line VIP show, I have updated this simple chart that shows four data points: 1) the average number of fatalities per year, worldwide, attributed to seasonal flu viruses (approximately 468,000); 2) the number of reported COVID-19 fatalities to date, worldwide, per the World Health Organization (18,440); 3) the number of seasonal flu deaths in the U.S. during the 2017-18 season, i.e., two years ago (61,000); and 4) the number of U.S. COVID-19 fatalities to date, as reported by the Centers for Disease Control (737). Click to enlarge:
The Diamond Princess experience–virtually a laboratory experiment–suggests that around 80% of the population is naturally immune to COVID-19, that half the people who get the disease will experience no symptoms, and that in an elderly population, something like 1% of those who contract the disease will die. So far I don’t see anything in the reported U.S. or global fatality numbers to contradict the Diamond Princess experience.
POSTED ON MARCH 25, 2020 BY JOHN HINDERAKER IN CORONAVIRUS
COVID-19 FATALITIES SO FAR
In anticipation of tonight’s Power Line VIP show, I have updated this simple chart that shows four data points: 1) the average number of fatalities per year, worldwide, attributed to seasonal flu viruses (approximately 468,000); 2) the number of reported COVID-19 fatalities to date, worldwide, per the World Health Organization (18,440); 3) the number of seasonal flu deaths in the U.S. during the 2017-18 season, i.e., two years ago (61,000); and 4) the number of U.S. COVID-19 fatalities to date, as reported by the Centers for Disease Control (737). Click to enlarge:
The Diamond Princess experience–virtually a laboratory experiment–suggests that around 80% of the population is naturally immune to COVID-19, that half the people who get the disease will experience no symptoms, and that in an elderly population, something like 1% of those who contract the disease will die. So far I don’t see anything in the reported U.S. or global fatality numbers to contradict the Diamond Princess experience.
Take a look at this for a more realistic comparison of numbers. Everyone see these numbers by themselves and say "WOW". But the current numbers are not that big. Note the portion below where he states 80% Are naturally immune. Can that be true? Stunning if so.
POSTED ON MARCH 25, 2020 BY JOHN HINDERAKER IN CORONAVIRUS
COVID-19 FATALITIES SO FAR
In anticipation of tonight’s Power Line VIP show, I have updated this simple chart that shows four data points: 1) the average number of fatalities per year, worldwide, attributed to seasonal flu viruses (approximately 468,000); 2) the number of reported COVID-19 fatalities to date, worldwide, per the World Health Organization (18,440); 3) the number of seasonal flu deaths in the U.S. during the 2017-18 season, i.e., two years ago (61,000); and 4) the number of U.S. COVID-19 fatalities to date, as reported by the Centers for Disease Control (737). Click to enlarge:
The Diamond Princess experience–virtually a laboratory experiment–suggests that around 80% of the population is naturally immune to COVID-19, that half the people who get the disease will experience no symptoms, and that in an elderly population, something like 1% of those who contract the disease will die. So far I don’t see anything in the reported U.S. or global fatality numbers to contradict the Diamond Princess experience.
When it comes infectious diseases you’ll have to forgive me for not putting much stock in a blog post written by an attorney with no apparent medical expertise or citations for his opinions. Note he also does not cite anything related to hospitalizations which is the biggest reason for the steps we are taking as a country.
There are plenty of experts out there who are cautioning against doomsday scenarios. This guy isn’t one of them.
thanks for doing the legwork on that one. We should be listening to physicians and epidemiologists right now, definitely not lawyers.
Like most of manufacturing, the constant drive for cheaper labor and higher profits means the factories go overseas. Masks used to be made in the USA.... but
From NYT today:
<<Two decades ago, most hospital protective gear was made domestically. But like much of the rest of the apparel and consumer products business, face mask manufacturing has since shifted nearly entirely overseas. “China is a producer of 80 percent of masks worldwide,” Laverdure said.>>
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Just because a guy presents some facts or statistics but is not in the field you prefer, they should not be discounted or dismissed. If he is wrong, that is fine, lets discuss. If the figures are correct, then so be it, lets discuss that.
The mentality that we have to believe what someone says because they are a doctor or from the WHO or a republican or a democrat is what gets people following blindly. Personally, I was most intrigued by his statement that the data "suggests 80% of the population is naturally immune". If that is true, I can see why the press and others do to report it. This would be no big deal.
Food for thought guys. Try not to be too small minded that you dismiss something because of who said it as compared to what is said. This guy is not writing as much as publishing facts and statistics. The one thing he said that was opinion is the "data suggests".
So using statistics from the CDC and the WHO and drawing a logical conclusion is irrelevant unless it is from a doctor???
well then maybe it is time to MAGA the medical supply and pharmaceutical industries?
would you go to a well informed, researched lawyer for mechanical advice on your car? I didn’t think so.
you are right, it’s all blown out of proportion
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-hospitals.html
You missed my point. If you are using facts and drawing a reasonable conclusion it doesn’t matter what you do for a living.
Amen to that.
And I would add, comparing numbers obtained in the early stages of a pandemic to make an argument that "more die from the seasonal flu" completely ignores the exponential growth Covid-19 is currently undergoing.
Italy had 41 deaths from Covid-19 at the beginning of March.
March 10 - 631 dead
March 24 - 6,820 dead
And it is now March 25th in Italy.... another 683 died in the last 24 hours.
The experts at WHO, CDC, Johns Hopkins, or other experts in epidemiology and virology are the ones to listen to for learning about Covid-19.
Similar threads
