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Defense and offense

Wango Z Tango

Team MVP
Dec 31, 2004
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Chicago
Fans as well as pollsters knock Iowa on their defense. Sure, I hate to see uncontested layups with 3 seconds on a shot clock.
But other than teams like Virginia or Wisconsin, who plays consistent great defense? Teams like Wisconsin and Virginia, if they hold an opponent
to 30 points Virg or Wisky only score 60. Then fans are complaining about offense. If teams spread their offense and move the ball quickly
they will get three point chances and if they are hot a lot of points will be scored, Iowa included.

As for the guy driving to the hoop for a layup with three seconds on a shot clock? If you can't block it don't commit a touch foul, knock him on
his arse and he might not drive to the hoop again. You can punish a driver without it being a flagrant foul.

Not every game is going to end up 95 to 30, close out and win close games and steal wins on the road.
 
The best teams play great defense on a consistent basis. Teams like Duke, Michigan State, and Villanova. Iowa needs to put more pressure on the ball. Why do we always give the ball handler 2 feet of space to do whatever they want? Need to get much closer, invade the ball handler’s space.
 
The best teams play great defense on a consistent basis. Teams like Duke, Michigan State, and Villanova. Iowa needs to put more pressure on the ball. Why do we always give the ball handler 2 feet of space to do whatever they want? Need to get much closer, invade the ball handler’s space.

too much zone.
 
Given the players on the current team, other than Joe T, I really don't want any of the wings in the rotation playing more man to man. That would be bad.

I do wish they'd be more aggressive in their zone, but I'd be fine with them playing even more zone, just mix up the types even more.

CJ is a very good on ball defender and Connor is ok at 3 or 4.

JBO and Garza are the reasons Iowa has to play zone.

Im ok with it too because this team should be able to outscore people most nights. Keeping Garza out of screen and roll is a good thing to keep him from getting fouls.
 
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CJ is a very good on ball defender and Connor is ok at 3 or 4.

JBO and Garza are the reasons Iowa has to play zone.

Im ok with it too because this team should be able to outscore people most nights. Keeping Garza out of screen and roll is a good thing to keep him from getting fouls.
This. We get in trouble when Garza is 25ft from the basket on a closeout or switch. This results in a lot of easy baskets or fouls on our guys trying to pick up the driving player. The only post we've had who could pull that off was Woody who was great on the hedge and had great feet. Unfortunately he couldn't carry Luka's jock on the offensive end so......
 
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Doesn't Fran believe it is better to be offensively efficient vs defensively efficient? He can afford to have a middling defense as long as the offense is hyper good (Pts/poss).
 
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Given the players on the current team, other than Joe T, I really don't want any of the wings in the rotation playing more man to man. That would be bad.

I do wish they'd be more aggressive in their zone, but I'd be fine with them playing even more zone, just mix up the types even more.

When Jbo goes out, Iowa can play man to man. They need to play it better than they have previously under Fran which means either more effort or better coaching than previous years. UNI/Wisconsin don't have super athletes and they can play better man defense than Iowa.

The zone is never going to be a defense you can play 100% of the game and be an elite team. Other than Syracuse who usually has really athletic/long wings and a shot blocker center, I don't think anyone plays as much zone as Fran and is top20 team. Scoring is nice but not getting stops and losing like they did last year at Michigan is not satisfying. Garza puts up 40pts and no one bothered to guard Michigan.

I want to win. If they can win doing 100% zone, great.
 
UNI just gave up 93 pts to Western Ky. Play at a faster pace you’ll give up more points. UNI plays slow. Very slow so less possessions. Looks like Jake might want to go a little more uptempo this year. Let’s see what that does to their defense.
 
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Doesn't Fran believe it is better to be offensively efficient vs defensively efficient? He can afford to have a middling defense as long as the offense is hyper good (Pts/poss).

A middling defense would be fine. A middling defense would likely make this team the legit favorite to win the B1G and make the Final Four.

Trouble is.... we don't have a middling defense. We're 12th in the B1G right now in D efficiency after smashing two 250+ teams. https://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE

It's a problem.

I find comments like "I don't have a problem with it because we should be able to outscore most teams." really misinformed.

Yeah... "most teams" lol You know what teams you won't be able to beat? The one's who actually win the league title. The ones who actually go to the final four. The ones who actually play defense.
 
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A lot of the easy baskets that are given up under the basket at the last second is due to not having a rim defender.
In the Notre Dame/Michigan State game yesterday whenever the ball got into the post the shots were contested because each team had a big that were capable of blocking shots.
Not saying that LG is not capable of being that defender but it's more important that he stays out of foul trouble.
 
A middling defense would be fine. A middling defense would likely make this team the legit favorite to win the B1G and make the Final Four.

Trouble is.... we don't have a middling defense. We're 12th in the B1G right now in D efficiency after smashing two 250+ teams. https://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE

It's a problem.

I find comments like "I don't have a problem with it because we should be able to outscore most teams." really misinformed.

Yeah... "most teams" lol You know what teams you won't be able to beat? The one's who actually win the league title. The ones who actually go to the final four. The ones who actually play defense.
Well yeah but....uhhh.....ummmm.....ahh hell, you're correct, sometimes the ball doesn't go in the hole as frequently as you would like and then you have to have Defensive stops. No doubt about it if you want to be a serious contender for Championships.

This team has some serious Offensive firepower all over the floor, and if we're hot we can beat anybody, no doubt in my mind. But you're not always hot.

We've got some cold blooded closers though, that's a good thing too. Especially if Garza can get his free throw % up and keep it up.
 
Gonzaga pushes the ball offensively as much as we claim to. A large part of our defensive strategy will be getting back after both made and missed shots or they will be making layups all day.
 
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Lots of truth in here. Bottom line: Iowa's players must WANT to play a much more intense but smart brand of defense. Playing zone doesn't mean you just stand around waving your arms. Playing intense zone defense employs the same fundamentals as playing man. But instead of chasing one guy all over the floor, you're playing whoever is in your area. That should be the only real difference between man and zone. The intensity, in-your-jersey style should be the same. You still have to move your feet. You still have to keep your man in front of you. You still have to want it more than they do. So far, perhaps because of the competition--which shouldn't matter--I haven't seen that kind of effort yet. And that applies to rebounding as well. You have to WANT the ball more than the other guys.

The Hawkeyes know what's possible this season. What I'm not sure of yet is if they are willing to play with the defensive intensity and rebound with the attitude that it will take to achieve those possibilities. It needs to start from the tip next game and continue through the national title game.
 
A middling defense would be fine. A middling defense would likely make this team the legit favorite to win the B1G and make the Final Four.

Trouble is.... we don't have a middling defense. We're 12th in the B1G right now in D efficiency after smashing two 250+ teams. https://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE

It's a problem.


I find comments like "I don't have a problem with it because we should be able to outscore most teams." really misinformed.

Yeah... "most teams" lol You know what teams you won't be able to beat? The one's who actually win the league title. The ones who actually go to the final four. The ones who actually play defense.

It is a problem if Iowa wants to advance past the Sweet 16. There is a silver lining regarding this year’s defense compared to last year but the sample size is too small, and competition too weak, to really even bring it up at this point. I’ll track down this thread again after the Gonzaga game to see if the silver lining still holds true or if it was just a mirage....
 
too much zone.

Does anyone whose seen the Iowa or most other B!G teams play MSU really think Iowa would get to play MSU kind of defense against Sparty, or Duke or 'Nova? We would be in such deep foul trouble as to doubtfully field a team for the second half.

There are two sets of rules in basketball and the rules that govern the Iowas, Minnesotas etc... of the world do not apply to Duke, Sparty etc... If the MSU games were called the same both ways Sparty would surrender 40-50 free throws a game. Actually, Puke and Sparty would probably just adjust to the generally applied rules of basketball and still win most of their games without the obscene and dishonest officiating from which they benefit because they are very good players with great coaches.
 
I love that they are an offensive minded team. There was nothing more boring than trying to watch the B1G during the period of "first to 50 wins", which wasn't that long ago. I despise that style of so-called basketball.

However, a good team that's going to compete against the top 10 can rarely win consistently with offense alone.

If they could even just get into the upper 60s for D efficiency it wouldn't just be a meaningless statistical bump. We'd actually see by the eye test a markedly better defensive team.

Iowa is a unique combination of players in college b-ball. Look no further than the player of the year. Luka is a phenom on the offensive end. No one works harder. He will post gaudy numbers offensively again this year. Defensively, he's below average. It's not that he doesn't make the effort; he absolutely busts his ass. But no hops, slow reaction, slow lateral movement and overall lack of quickness doom him on that end. JBo is such a defensive liability on the perimeter that it's hard to cover for him against most lineups. Yet, he is a dead eye perimeter shooter with nearly unlimited range. There are really no outstanding defenders on the entire team. Additionally, as a team they don't take the sum of their overall below average parts and elevate them with exemplary discipline/communication/rotation.

I remain excited about what they can do. I'm also going to be realistic as to where they will struggle.
 
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Two of these so called great defensive teams Virginia and Nova lost in the last few days to lesser squads. UVA scored 60 while nova scored 73 in overtime.. We can all want better defense, but I'd take this offense any day and hope the defense can perform average in big games.
 
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Does anyone whose seen the Iowa or most other B!G teams play MSU really think Iowa would get to play MSU kind of defense against Sparty, or Duke or 'Nova? We would be in such deep foul trouble as to doubtfully field a team for the second half.

There are two sets of rules in basketball and the rules that govern the Iowas, Minnesotas etc... of the world do not apply to Duke, Sparty etc... If the MSU games were called the same both ways Sparty would surrender 40-50 free throws a game. Actually, Puke and Sparty would probably just adjust to the generally applied rules of basketball and still win most of their games without the obscene and dishonest officiating from which they benefit because they are very good players with great coaches.

LOL

This is the biggest pile of clownish, conspiracy theory, loser bullshit I think I've ever read on this site and THAT really is saying something.
 
Understood and agree. So from your point of view, to perform average we would need to turn it up? Meaning you believe we are below avg?

It has nothing to do with what I believe. Who cares what I believe. I posted the current Kenpom D efficiency ratings and we currently rank 12th out of 14 teams in the B1G.

Yeah, it's still early but unfortunately, that is about par for the course where Fran's teams usually rank defensively.

You "turn it up" by making team D a priority and coaching it. And coaching it. And coaching it. And coaching it some more. And then coaching it again. It takes months (at minimum). It really is a culture thing much more than a strategy/technique thing. That's why you see programs like Purdue and MSU and Wisconsin play solid D year after year after year regardless of personnel.

This is not iowa/fran culture. I think it will put a definite ceiling on what we can hope to accomplish. I hope I'm wrong and you all laugh at me after we win the Big Ten regular season title and a National Championship.
 
It has nothing to do with what I believe. Who cares what I believe. I posted the current Kenpom D efficiency ratings and we currently rank 12th out of 14 teams in the B1G.

Yeah, it's still early but unfortunately, that is about par for the course where Fran's teams usually rank defensively.

You "turn it up" by making team D a priority and coaching it. And coaching it. And coaching it. And coaching it some more. And then coaching it again. It takes months (at minimum). It really is a culture thing much more than a strategy/technique thing. That's why you see programs like Purdue and MSU and Wisconsin play solid D year after year after year regardless of personnel.

This is not iowa/fran culture. I think it will put a definite ceiling on what we can hope to accomplish. I hope I'm wrong and you all laugh at me after we win the Big Ten regular season title and a National Championship.

Of course I hope we achieve all of that regardless where we stack up defensively this year. We have the same team/coach as last year so expecting more defensively would be a stretch for sure. I just look around the league and see defensive teams still take their share of bad losses. You're right tho, the league and ncaa Champs are mostly top defensive teams so logically we don't fit the eye test to be great. I too hope we can laugh at this when we win it all :)
 
After these two games, I wouldn't worry about our defensive rating in the big 10. At the end of both games our defense was not good, especially when our freshmen and walk on players were in at the end of the game. Alot of new guys saw their first college action, and the speed of the game takes time to get use to on both ends of the floor. Yes, the starters had bad moments on defense, but all teams have bad moments on defense especially early in the year. I thought our defense last year was much improved from the previous year, and I'm hoping for that same improvement this year.
 
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Lots of truth in here. Bottom line: Iowa's players must WANT to play a much more intense but smart brand of defense. Playing zone doesn't mean you just stand around waving your arms. Playing intense zone defense employs the same fundamentals as playing man. But instead of chasing one guy all over the floor, you're playing whoever is in your area. That should be the only real difference between man and zone. The intensity, in-your-jersey style should be the same. You still have to move your feet. You still have to keep your man in front of you. You still have to want it more than they do. So far, perhaps because of the competition--which shouldn't matter--I haven't seen that kind of effort yet. And that applies to rebounding as well. You have to WANT the ball more than the other guys.

The Hawkeyes know what's possible this season. What I'm not sure of yet is if they are willing to play with the defensive intensity and rebound with the attitude that it will take to achieve those possibilities. It needs to start from the tip next game and continue through the national title game.

Must have gotten hacked.
 
LOL

This is the biggest pile of clownish, conspiracy theory, loser bullshit I think I've ever read on this site and THAT really is saying something.

Do you know the quickest, surest and clearest way to identify the uneducable utter ****ing moron in an argument? Seriously, do you? They just just call names.

We can disagree about officiating without being personally insulting. Your position, such as can be extracted from the early adolescent insults you threw at me, is supported by nothing. Nothing, that is, but the equally adolescent belief, learned in FCA or some HS locker room, that athletics is the only human endeavor in which corruption does not exist. All those billions and billions and billions of dollars running through many layers of many hands each and you think no one would tilt the scale to benefit the profit centers and, in some situations, to just benefit the individual hand that's reaching for something? I mean priests rape children and bishops cover it up and then cardinals cover the bishops? Or, we could say a Penn state coach rapes children, the head coach covers it up and then the university president covers the head coach. Time to grow up Buttercup

The current status quo is enormously enriching for the NCAA and its constituent conferences and members. The internet and TV based media is making a killing for itself and creating an enormous downstream of money for the product-college TV rights. Real life isn't Hoosiers, its Hobbes, a nasty, back stabbing place where the currency of the realm is the currency of the realm. Out here in the real world the kind of money involved in just Big Ten BBall, much less the NCAA as a whole, is the kind of money people are willing to kill to obtain or ensure. I'm not saying anyone's getting murdered but developing an economic system where the profit centers continue to profit hardly seems farfetched, or "clownish" when judged against the degree of corruption of the larger world in which college athletics exists.

And then, watch the games and see incredible calls that cannot be explained by what physically happened. But the same thing happens endlessly. Occasionally a blue blood falls or another rises, usually only for a limited time, but the cycle endlessly replicates. The system never changes much over time, especially in the B!G Ten. The continued employment as officials proves the Big Ten approves of the guys like Larry Scriotto-the modern archetype of the dishonest official.

Nor is this a "conspiracy" in the sense you suggest. Its a shared and common belief in a system; a system that is working and does not require reform. Sparty is supposed to beat Iowa, every time every year. Its news when Iowa upsets Sparty. It isn't Tommy, you know the deaf, dumb and blind pinball wizard, officiating these games. The officials know the history and the standings when they officiate games. The refs would necessarily have a preconception of whose team has better players and who is supposed to win. That effect would be largely subconscious in most of the officials but fairly overt among some, like Teddy V who more or less admitted a preference for MSU-and now he has returned to Big Ten games. Then there are the gamblers. Again, not many but undoubtedly some. Its the lure of easy money. I hear it has a pretty strong appeal.

What I've typed is an argument. I have explained the reasons I think my opinion is right and yours wrong. I could have done that without insulting you but, given your post, I chose not to do so.

Now we could go down the road of exchanging increasingly venomous attacks but I'd prefer not and I'm sure the other members share my preference. So if you want to argue about officiating, fine. Just make your argument and don't call me names. If so you will find I will do the same.
 
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Does anyone whose seen the Iowa or most other B!G teams play MSU really think Iowa would get to play MSU kind of defense against Sparty, or Duke or 'Nova? We would be in such deep foul trouble as to doubtfully field a team for the second half.

There are two sets of rules in basketball and the rules that govern the Iowas, Minnesotas etc... of the world do not apply to Duke, Sparty etc... If the MSU games were called the same both ways Sparty would surrender 40-50 free throws a game. Actually, Puke and Sparty would probably just adjust to the generally applied rules of basketball and still win most of their games without the obscene and dishonest officiating from which they benefit because they are very good players with great coaches.
Sparty is physical and Iowa can get timid against them. Our fans whine about it because out teams under Fran are typically soft. See every time we play Purdue. This years team, much like last year, won’t shy away from the challenge.
 
Does anyone whose seen the Iowa or most other B!G teams play MSU really think Iowa would get to play MSU kind of defense against Sparty, or Duke or 'Nova? We would be in such deep foul trouble as to doubtfully field a team for the second half.

There are two sets of rules in basketball and the rules that govern the Iowas, Minnesotas etc... of the world do not apply to Duke, Sparty etc... If the MSU games were called the same both ways Sparty would surrender 40-50 free throws a game. Actually, Puke and Sparty would probably just adjust to the generally applied rules of basketball and still win most of their games without the obscene and dishonest officiating from which they benefit because they are very good players with great coaches.
The one game that comes to mind when Iowa did get get screwed against MSU, in my opinion, was the B1G tournament game Frans 3rd year. Knocked us out of the big dance.
 
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While not going as far as Dog does, I will simply state that basketball is a game WITH RULES. No where in the rule book does it state that certain teams, because of the aggressive nature of their players or head coach, get to play by their own set of rules. You don't have to watch a lot of basketball to come to the conclusion, that refs don't always agree with this. Some teams, and we all know who they are, do not play by the rules unless the refs make them by calling legitimate fouls when they are committed. When this occurs, the field is leveled and the less "physical" teams are allowed to play the game by the rules and not by the current state of mind of the officials or their sometimes questionable relationship with certain head coaches.
 
The one game that comes to mind when Iowa did get get screwed against MSU, in my opinion, was the B1G tournament game Frans 3rd year. Knocked us out of the big dance.

I was there and I could not agree more. That was some major league B.S. right there.
 
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There is no way around it. The defense in these first 2 games has not really looked improved since last year. The best defenders in limited action so far have appeared to be Joe T, Keegan Murray and PMac. JBO, Weiskamp, and Connor don't really look to be improved defensively at all IMO. We'll see if the motivation increases when Nunge returns and the competition improves but I'm wondering if we don't see earlier substitutions than we saw last year if Fran feels like he needs an infusion of defense and some of these guys are struggling in that regard. Perhaps with more depth he'll feel more latitude in that regard if he feels like the defensive effort is lacking.
 
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