ADVERTISEMENT

Effects of Kneeling

hawkdave007

HR MVP
Gold Member
Dec 10, 2003
1,377
2,791
113
I support the team kneeling, and will still attend games with my friends and my daughter.

But I think I've probably attended the last game with my parents. They're older. They either won't go or if they go they will be yelling at the players (or people around them) to stand for the flag. Both are Trumpers.

My grandfather fought in WWI, and I have other family in the military. There's just a whole generation out there that equates "saluting the flag" with "saluting the troops" and doesn't understand this kneeling style protest or doesn't have enough of a "you do you" attitude to leave it be.

They'd probably make a scene and end up on a Twitter video yelling and acting wild. Anyone else have people like this in their family, or just me?
 
I get that. I will stand for the anthem as always. I do think the message board crowd is younger and more agnostic to this issue but Iowa has a lot of donors and fanbase in the more traditional and older age groups. It's easy to sit here and dismiss them and minimize the issue, however, this issue won't be pleasant and will be divisive.
 
I get that. I will stand for the anthem as always. I do think the message board crowd is younger and more agnostic to this issue but Iowa has a lot of donors and fanbase in the more traditional and older age groups. It's easy to sit here and dismiss them and minimize the issue, however, this issue won't be pleasant and will be divisive.

But perhaps necessary.

My parents lived through the '60s. Most people not killed by the KKK, drug overdose, or Vietnam survived it just fine.

College athletes kneeling during the national anthem, which most fans are too drunk to properly sing along to anyway, will not be the end of Western Civilization or the complete undoing of Judeo-Christian values in America.

If older people or "Trumpers" can't understand that, then that's not anyone's problem but their own. There are plenty of people who have served in the military who are okay with 1st Amendment expressions.
 
But perhaps necessary.

My parents lived through the '60s. Most people not killed by the KKK, drug overdose, or Vietnam survived it just fine.

College athletes kneeling during the national anthem, which most fans are too drunk to properly sing along to anyway, will not be the end of Western Civilization or the complete undoing of Judeo-Christian values in America.

If older people or "Trumpers" can't understand that, then that's not anyone's problem but their own. There are plenty of people who have served in the military who are okay with 1st Amendment expressions.

And likewise, I hope our players understand the same 1st amendment expressions when they tell fans not supportive of kneeling to find another team. I hope your idea of freedom of expression goes both ways.
 
Old traditions die hard, but something being overlooked in the kneeling debate is the fact that it's possible in the first place. American Veterans did indeed fight and die for Americans to enjoy everlasting safety and individual freedoms. Thus, they gave their hearts, lives and limbs so that Americans could kneel during the National Anthem. Or match on Washington DC. Or openly call out the President. I think plenty of Veterans living and dead would appreciate the fact that many citizens of this country are prepared to express their freedom in a controversial way. That's the very essence of what freedom is! God bless them for giving that to us.
 
And likewise, I hope our players understand the same 1st amendment expressions when they tell fans not supportive of kneeling to find another team. I hope your idea of freedom of expression goes both ways.

It does. I have no problem with people disagreeing with the players kneeling for the anthem or "taking their business elsewhere." That's a fundamental American right.

I'm just making fun of a lot of these sunshine patriots coming unglued over a simple expression of the 1st Amendment, which taking a knee is. Now, if the players were promoting hate or violence or wearing sweatbands that said "F*** the po po" or Rev. Wright's "Goddamn America!" sermon replaced Nile Kinnick's Heisman acceptance speech, then that would be something much different.
 
The problem isn't with the concept of the First Amendment. First Amendment rights are almost unlimited. But everything that one has a right to say is not of equal accuracy, validity, probity and, most importantly, virtue.

Bleeder, I assume you know that a very small part of the population were killed in Vietnam, fewer still in riots and even fewer still by the KKK. Do you think that's all that happened of significance in the 60s?

Its sad that so many bright young people are so angry when their knowledge and beliefs appear based on nothing more than dystopian mythology.
 
So, there will be COVID limited crowds this year, but maybe 50,000 or so normal going forward. Maybe bigger for certain games, but also maybe like 45,000 for MAC teams
 
So, there will be COVID limited crowds this year, but maybe 50,000 or so normal going forward. Maybe bigger for certain games, but also maybe like 45,000 for MAC teams

Will covid even be on the radar in August? Look at the national numbers. They've been rapidly declining.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Simbahawk4
As a veteran, I hate when people say it's ok with me. You have every right to do it but don't you dare think I'm ok with it. I fought for a lot of things and support the cause but it's disrespectful to me. Screw anybody that tells me different because I've been there, done that.. I've seen that flag draped and passed it to mourning wives and kids. I want America to grow as a nation but you can't tell me there are not more plausible ways to create this growth. Great for every other person or veteran that is ok with it, but don't act like everyone is on board with kneeling.
 
I’ve never understood how kneeling is disrespectful, hell of a lot more respectful than standing. Honestly a divided crowd is unlikely especially for Iowans, i just wonder how they expect us to kneel in Kinnick? I say we give them a big cheer when they do kneel but do it normal up top
 
Will covid even be on the radar in August? Look at the national numbers. They've been rapidly declining.
I think numbers are still all over the board. But that could be because or more tests.

Seems the NHL/NBA are going without fans for their playoffs.. They extend into September.

Still think they will limit it, because last thing any program can afford is a bunch of players getting hit with positive test cases
 
I get that, but maybe there’s a way to express support for the cause without tearing the Hawkeye fandom in two.

I mean no disrespect to you, but if fans are going to get butthurt over the players kneeling, there isn't much anyone can say that would be helpful to them.

I personally don't care one way or the other. But it is ridiculous for some of our fans to pontificate on how the Iowa players should express their 1st Amendment rights when Coach Ferentz has given them the okay to do so. To those fans who have a problem with it, good bye and good riddance!
 
  • Like
Reactions: JStandefer
I have never seen the problem with kneeling during the national anthem at a football game as a form of protest. It seems like an appropriate time to do it as a means of calling attention to police brutality. I mean, if someone knelt during the national anthem without declaring why they were kneeling it would be useless. But Kaepernick made it clear why he was kneeling during the national anthem (to draw attention to the police brutality against Eric Garner and others).

To me, kneeling in that way during the national anthem seems like the most appropriate time to express protest against an American institutional injustice being performed by law enforcement. The type of kneeling that is totally unacceptable is law enforcement kneeling on a black man's neck (or anyone's neck). The latter is the type of kneeling that should really be pissing people off. Kaepernick's kneeling hurt no one; Chauvin's kneeling killed a man.
 
As a veteran, I hate when people say it's ok with me. You have every right to do it but don't you dare think I'm ok with it. I fought for a lot of things and support the cause but it's disrespectful to me. Screw anybody that tells me different because I've been there, done that.. I've seen that flag draped and passed it to mourning wives and kids. I want America to grow as a nation but you can't tell me there are not more plausible ways to create this growth. Great for every other person or veteran that is ok with it, but don't act like everyone is on board with kneeling.

And I think it's good for you to have your voice heard. You have every right to say you disagree with it. The problem occurs when people tell others they don't have the right to a different opinion or to kneel in unity. That isn't what you are doing, so you are handling your disagreement the right way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaboKP
I mean no disrespect to you, but if fans are going to get butthurt over the players kneeling, there isn't much anyone can say that would be helpful to them.

I personally don't care one way or the other. But it is ridiculous for some of our fans to pontificate on how the Iowa players should express their 1st Amendment rights when Coach Ferentz has given them the okay to do so. To those fans who have a problem with it, good bye and good riddance!

I get that. But it’s kneeling during the national anthem that causes problems. Could it be done at another point during the game?
 
I get that the kids want to voice their concen with the senseless horrific murder in Minneapolis (I support that..Peaceful means) however the American flag should NOT be the targeted symbol! How about a flag stating “No More Injustice”..colors red & black!? Red for blood..black for death? The American flag on the other hand “predominantly” is Symbolically Representing the men & woman who: bled, have dismembered & missing limbs and died for all our freedoms including 1st Amendment right of speech! I don’t place total blame on the kids rather the “left” educators who’ve endocrinated the students and book publishers (editors) rewriting a “left” narrative however had no problem plugging in a “Transgenderism” curriculum..grr! We used to say the Pledge of Allegiance before our first class, most schools today don’t even have an American flag in the classroom. Now I know why (5 yr’s ago) so many dad’s at work were saying “homeschooling” as I couldn’t figure why, then did some research..wow! My wife and I have a soon to be 4 yr old, it won’t be public education, which is unfortunate as I and my 4 siblings went through public education..times have changed NOT for the better!
 
I get that. But it’s kneeling during the national anthem that causes problems. Could it be done at another point during the game?

That's not for you, me, or anyone else to decide but Kirk Ferentz and the Iowa Hawkeyes.

Frankly, as many beer-bellied rednecks who have stumbled past me while the national anthem is being played, not to mention the number of people either on their phones or doing other unrelated things, lends credence to the belief the whole playing of the national anthem before sporting events is rather nonsensical and cloaked in a faux patriotism. When these sunshine patriots start getting upset about the large number of white people actually disrespecting our flag when the national anthem is being played, then perhaps I'll reconsider my indifference toward college athletes comprised of many African Americans kneeling in solidarity as a token reminder of what our flag and national anthem are all about. Until that day, though, I'm going to call this outrage for what it is: selective. And by and large, coming from simple-minded, sunshine patriots, many of whom have never made a significant sacrifice for this country a day in their life.
 
But perhaps necessary.

My parents lived through the '60s. Most people not killed by the KKK, drug overdose, or Vietnam survived it just fine.

College athletes kneeling during the national anthem, which most fans are too drunk to properly sing along to anyway, will not be the end of Western Civilization or the complete undoing of Judeo-Christian values in America.

If older people or "Trumpers" can't understand that, then that's not anyone's problem but their own. There are plenty of people who have served in the military who are okay with 1st Amendment expressions.

!st amendment expressions are not the same thing as destroying traditions that have been built on the significant accomplishments of others over a long period of time.
 
As a veteran, I hate when people say it's ok with me. You have every right to do it but don't you dare think I'm ok with it. I fought for a lot of things and support the cause but it's disrespectful to me. Screw anybody that tells me different because I've been there, done that.. I've seen that flag draped and passed it to mourning wives and kids. I want America to grow as a nation but you can't tell me there are not more plausible ways to create this growth. Great for every other person or veteran that is ok with it, but don't act like everyone is on board with 400 years of suppression

fify. Thank you for your service and for all those who served. Let FREEDOM reign.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Simbahawk4
!st amendment expressions are not the same thing as destroying traditions that have been built on the significant accomplishments of others over a long period of time.

The tradition of playing a song to a stadium full of inebriated, belligerent people? That tradition? Lol, okay.

Last I knew, players on the field kneeling does not take away from any person in the stands doing whatever they choose to do when the national anthem is being played, whether that be choosing to have their nose in their phone, their hand over their heart, or their feet stumbling by me on the way to the pisser.

None of that is being "destroyed" by athletes taking a knee.
 
Scared to send your kids to public school? To bad for you. Good luck keeping them home and socializing them because you’re scared of not playing the pledge of allegiance?
 
I have never seen the problem with kneeling during the national anthem at a football game as a form of protest. It seems like an appropriate time to do it as a means of calling attention to police brutality. I mean, if someone knelt during the national anthem without declaring why they were kneeling it would be useless. But Kaepernick made it clear why he was kneeling during the national anthem (to draw attention to the police brutality against Eric Garner and others).

To me, kneeling in that way during the national anthem seems like the most appropriate time to express protest against an American institutional injustice being performed by law enforcement. The type of kneeling that is totally unacceptable is law enforcement kneeling on a black man's neck (or anyone's neck). The latter is the type of kneeling that should really be pissing people off. Kaepernick's kneeling hurt no one; Chauvin's kneeling killed a man.
Kapernick, on at least one occasion, wore socks depicting cops as pigs. To me, using an NFL football game to demonstrate that type of disrespect toward law enforcement is inappropriate.
 
Honestly...I think dividing or angering the fans should have literally zero consideration in making this decision.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HFan1981
The problem isn't with the concept of the First Amendment. First Amendment rights are almost unlimited. But everything that one has a right to say is not of equal accuracy, validity, probity and, most importantly, virtue.

Bleeder, I assume you know that a very small part of the population were killed in Vietnam, fewer still in riots and even fewer still by the KKK. Do you think that's all that happened of significance in the 60s?

Its sad that so many bright young people are so angry when their knowledge and beliefs appear based on nothing more than dystopian mythology.

Lol. I don't know where to begin ripping this to shreds.

So, I'll just let it stand on its own, as the beacon of stupid that it is.

Btw, the only opinion I have offered is on the players' rights to kneel if they so choose and not on the substance or merits of the protest. The problem, Deplorable, is you are just as smug and myopic as you think that I am, which probably explains your lack of reading comprehension, or perhaps more accurately your selective use of it.
 
That's not for you, me, or anyone else to decide but Kirk Ferentz and the Iowa Hawkeyes.

Frankly, as many beer-bellied rednecks who have stumbled past me while the national anthem is being played, not to mention the number of people either on their phones or doing other unrelated things, lends credence to the belief the whole playing of the national anthem before sporting events is rather nonsensical and cloaked in a faux patriotism. When these sunshine patriots start getting upset about the large number of white people actually disrespecting our flag when the national anthem is being played, then perhaps I'll reconsider my indifference toward college athletes comprised of many African Americans kneeling in solidarity as a token reminder of what our flag and national anthem are all about. Until that day, though, I'm going to call this outrage for what it is: selective. And by and large, coming from simple-minded, sunshine patriots, many of whom have never made a significant sacrifice for this country a day in their life.

Agree, but you also have people in the stands that served in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Stand during the anthem for them, any other point in the game to kneel for George Floyd, Arbery, etc. Both deserve a separate moment of respect.
 
Since kneeling is a gesture of submission, if people feel like submitting before the flag they should feel free to do so if they'd like. Therefore the gesture itself really isn't disrespectful in and of itself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TJHawkeye
I’ve never understood how kneeling is disrespectful, hell of a lot more respectful than standing. Honestly a divided crowd is unlikely especially for Iowans, i just wonder how they expect us to kneel in Kinnick? I say we give them a big cheer when they do kneel but do it normal up top

To understand why it's disrespectful you have to understand what the flag and the national anthem means to a large percentage of America. The flag because a symbol for the idea of America, representing not just the 13 colonies and America as a nation, but the idea of republic governed democratically by the people and not under the control of America. It represents the great experiment of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which guaranteed citizens individuals rights and established principles of self-governance. Before America, no similar form of government had ever been even attempted.

Later the flag came to represent the unity of America under a central government. Prior to the Civil War, people said the United States are because we really didn't have one country but a collection of affiliated states and territories. After the Civil War people said the United States is representing the birth of America as a single nation. In this context, America as we know it today, as one nation, was formed free of slavery.

It also came to represent those who died for the belief and idea of self-governance and even more so those who died to preserve the United States and reform America after the Civil War. It also would later come to symbolize those who died defending the world from fascism and communism.

The National Anthem is more than a song. It's a memorial for the men and women of all colors including slaves and free blacks who died holding Fort McHenry. They could have lived by simply lowering the flag and surrendering the fort. Instead hundreds died making sure that the flag continued to fly above the Fort. In fact, after the battle it was found that what kept the flag standing was the hundreds of bodies that fell around the base of the flagpole. Their bodies were literally holding the pole up by forming a barricade and keeping it erect.

Sousa who wrote the star-bangled banner watched the battle as a POW aboard a British ship that was shelling the fort.

The flag as a symbol has nothing to do with the police as police forces are governed by states or municipalities. Colin K kneels for the flag because he is a Marxist/Socialist who hates America and democracy.

America is not perfect but it was created a system to be changed so that it could constantly move towards something better. This is why the Declaration of Independence starts out with "in order to form a more perfect union".

The flag and the national anthem will always symbolize the dream of America and those who died trying to preserve the opportunity to move towards something exponentially greater.

To those who say it's a song and the flag is nothing but a close, you have no knowledge of history and no respect for the millions who have died for the flag. You spit on the graves of every soldier who ever died carrying the flag into battle to preserve or defend the country and deface the grave of the millions who have died of every race, religion, gender and color serving the flag.

Yes, in America it is your right to protest but don't try and belittle the beliefs of those who believe that the flag and the national anthem should be honored and not desecrated.
 
Agree, but you also have people in the stands that served in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Stand during the anthem for them, any other point in the game to kneel for George Floyd, Arbery, etc. Both deserve a separate moment of respect.

I'm not saying you're wrong, Wilson, I'm just saying it's not up to you or me to decide that.

And there are plenty of veterans who support what the players will be doing, and I'm sure there are plenty who won't be in support of it. Both are fine. The problem is there is a lot of virtue signaling happening right now from people aghast at the idea of student athletes taking a knee during the national anthem. And the only purpose that serves is to further fan the flames of division and acrimony in this country.

The reality is we have a long, embarrassing history of racial injustice and inequality in America. And frankly, there are so many parts to this issue that go beyond policing and the justice system, which include poverty, the breakdown of the family, urban violence, and so many more. If young athletes want to bring awareness to the inequities and injustices they feel exist by taking a knee, I'm okay with it. If they want to follow what you're suggesting, I'm okay with it. If they want to stand and not acknowledge the issues and rhetoric going on in our country, I'm okay with it.

People just need to chill and maybe start listening more. Statistical data is only a small part of the picture and this continual outrage and virtue signaling by people so adamantly opposed to people often marginalized in society having a voice is getting beyond ridiculous. Just let it fly and listen. If Kirk Ferentz is open to listening, everyone else should be too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wilson reborn
Agree, but you also have people in the stands that served in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Stand during the anthem for them, any other point in the game to kneel for George Floyd, Arbery, etc. Both deserve a separate moment of respect.

I love and appreciate our vets, so I hope this doesn’t come off as disrespectful... I totally think we should honor them... but why do they deserve a moment of respect at every football game? It seems an odd place/time to honor them.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT