Face it, this is Iowa under Fran

Dude McHawks

Team MVP
Dec 8, 2013
223
318
63
Credit goes to Fran for assembling a team last year composed of two NBA draftees, two transfers to high-level D-1 schools (in fairness one tore his ACL last year) and one (possibly two) guys a year away from early NBA entrants. BUT...
We as a fanbase are clearly still hung over from last year BTT/NCAA bust because a team of that composition really should bring home more hardware than it did. Worse, if you can't win with a team of that composition can we win in the BTT/NCAA this year (evidence points to no)
Annoyingly, the 3rd and 4th most minutes on the team last year went to two guys who aren't on the list of great players above. Annoyingly, one guy who is potential NBA material this year is still only getting 41% of the minutes while there are others who should not be getting nearly that many. Annoyingly it seems like every team fades down the stretch, and the lack of Q1 wins makes this team's NCAA resume more tenuous than you think if a patented Fran fade happens. Annoyingly, many of the problems that lead to lack of Q1 wins and late season fades are brought up by the fans over and over.
I get that you're saying we want Iowa to be something that it isn't, that we don't want to pull a Nebraska and fire an average coach to end up as a disaster, etc... but we all know the pieces can be brought here and it could be better.
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
14,793
19,251
113
Yep OP

I am done with the Fran era. He is what he is and I guess more fans are fine with it than are like me and want a new direction. Nothing wrong with wanting more.
I don't get this.

It sounds like you are saying there are 2 kinds of Iowa fans -

A. Angry, red-faced, fist-clenched fans that have been fed up with Fran for years and want him fired TODAY!

Or

B. Fans that are "fine with it".

I don't think I've read a post here from anyone that is "fine" with the Hawks this year or the Iowa Basketball program in general. Everyone would like it to be better, but it's not up to us.
 

hexumhawk

HR Legend
Sep 24, 2003
13,254
8,424
113
44
North Liberty
I don't get this.

It sounds like you are saying there are 2 kinds of Iowa fans -

A. Angry, red-faced, fist-clenched fans that have been fed up with Fran for years and want him fired TODAY!

Or

B. Fans that are "fine with it".

I don't think I've read a post here from anyone that is "fine" with the Hawks this year or the Iowa Basketball program in general. Everyone would like it to be better, but it's not up to us.
It is up to "us". Stop going to games and buying merch if you have to. Send Barta emails.

I have respect for what Fran did in bringing us to respectability but this has gone on too long now. He has had 11 years which is an eternity in basketball. ZERO sweet 16s and ZERO conference titles. Even with our best team we couldn't get close to a conference title.
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
14,793
19,251
113
It is up to "us". Stop going to games and buying merch if you have to. Send Barta emails.

I have respect for what Fran did in bringing us to respectability but this has gone on too long now. He has had 11 years which is an eternity in basketball. ZERO sweet 16s and ZERO conference titles. Even with our best team we couldn't get close to a conference title.
Well, I don't go to games, and I no longer send money to athletics. I don't think emails to Barta will accomplish anything.

Dwindling attendance might get it done, but it would have to be substantial I imagine.

My only point is that there is a huge range of possible emotions between outrage and wanting to take action, and feeling like everything is fine. I'm in there somewhere.
 

Pepperman

HR Legend
Nov 4, 2002
27,704
13,992
113
You're also the guy who said Fran has never made it past the first round in the NCAA tourney so you have no objectivity at all. And you're a Ferentz fan boy.

you chase me around to post this and I guess you’re just really bothered by the fact that most of us don’t call the play in games the “first round” like you apparently do?

what a strange hill to defend is all I can say.
 

LarryMullenJr.

HR Heisman
Dec 7, 2011
7,319
9,715
113
Nobody asked, and my position doesn't really matter, but I've been done with Fran for about 3 years now. I will support, root for, and follow the Hawks, likely until I'm flat-lining. I will hope they win every game they play, and wish they'd win a championship as often as possible.
All that said, why it's not possible to want a change in the staff--be it assistants for someone who can coach defense and rebounding, or the head man--but yet love our Hawkeyes, I don't know.
 

83Hawk

HR Legend
Sep 17, 2002
20,006
13,442
113
Nobody asked, and my position doesn't really matter, but I've been done with Fran for about 3 years now. I will support, root for, and follow the Hawks, likely until I'm flat-lining. I will hope they win every game they play, and wish they'd win a championship as often as possible.
All that said, why it's not possible to want a change in the staff--be it assistants for someone who can coach defense and rebounding, or the head man--but yet love our Hawkeyes, I don't know.
Don’t you understand Fran is the best Iowa can get? And this is the best Iowa basketball can be? And that if Fran is fired the Hawks will immediately return to Lick-level? At least that’s what the Superfans in the Sunshine Club all say.
 

Crazy Hawk

HR Legend
Jan 10, 2003
28,842
6,199
113
I remember on a podcast a few years back a player admitting that they never practiced defense when he was there. The story became that after that they started practicing defense. I wonder how much time they do devote to D, because this team consistently looks lost on D.
I know a high profile large school head coach here in the state of Iowa. He says that Iowa spends the least amount of time emphasizing defense than any other (college) program in the state...and its not even close.
 

nbanflfactory

HR Heisman
Aug 22, 2021
5,248
5,234
113
There is nothing awful about it, but Iowa under Fran more often than not will be that 6th to 9th place conference team. They’ll make the tournament half the time and be out that first weekend. They won’t compete with the top of the conference typically. They’ll usually always have a winning record. They’ll be within a game or two of .500 in the conference more often than not. I mean it is what it is. This is the product under Fran.
Fran is great at getting fans hopes up and then squashing them!!!

We aren't falling for it anymore Fmac!!
 

Bearhawk0505

HR MVP
Mar 13, 2010
2,137
2,094
113
It is basketball, not a numbers game like football. You can field a great team nearly anywhere. There are plenty of hungry, young coaches out there that would love a shot at the Iowa job. Some former Hawks even. They could be hired at half the cost. I never understand the fear to change coaches in basketball to take chance to be great. We desperately need a coaching change.
 

Richie Modano

Scout Team
Oct 6, 2019
139
191
43
When Fran was hired and I heard he was wanting to play up-tempo offense, I was hoping he would try a different recruiting strategy/had different recruiting connections and base than what Dr. Tom had. Basically he's been playing an uptempo style like Dr. Tom and recruiting similar type of talent (mostly high school kids from Iowa and the surrounding region) to whom Dr Tom recruited to play that style, and he's getting similar results (first weekend NCAA or NIT and some upper half finishes in the Big Ten - and then getting beat in the 2nd round of NCAA by top tier programs like Gonzaga or Villanova that can just keep outscoring us and our so-called uptempo, elite offense can't keep up with them). This isn't terrible. Northwestern, Nebraska, and some other major conference programs would be happy to have those results. But to win big by going uptempo at Iowa I think you have to try recruiting with a different philosophy which could lead to a lot more highs and lows or failing completely like Hoiberg at Nebraska, i.e., recruiting mostly transfers, international players, and prep school players.
 

Suterman

HR Legend
Gold Member
Nov 13, 2003
19,837
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It is up to "us". Stop going to games and buying merch if you have to. Send Barta emails.

I have respect for what Fran did in bringing us to respectability but this has gone on too long now. He has had 11 years which is an eternity in basketball. ZERO sweet 16s and ZERO conference titles. Even with our best team we couldn't get close to a conference title.
I want to support the team. They have earned my attention, my respect and my dollars. I don't support the Hawkeyes because they win everything in sight. I support them because they are my team. I pulled for Kenyon Murray and I pull for his kids. They are Hawkeyes.
 

Rudolph

HR Legend
Oct 18, 2001
32,414
53,861
113
This. I get tired of the "this is iowa" when it comes to expectations. There is zero pressure for both football and basketball. As long as a semi competent product is out there it's good enough. I also hate the "remember the Lickliter years" people too. That was 12 damn years ago. Using that as a crutch is weak
And everybody hates you, too.
 

iahawks10

HR Legend
Nov 3, 2001
11,793
14,506
113
I think thow of Fran's teams have had a 4-way and 3-way shared 3rd place finish. That does not mean they were 3rd best team those years. Both those shared 3rd place teams got bounced out in 1st round of BTT. Add in the BTT record and those teams finished closer to 6th/5th place in Big10 overall record.

Even last year's clear 3rd place team in regular season got bounced out in 1st game in BTT. The 11 year Fran trend is he won't win you a BTT championship, ever.

Fran has 37 year career with and zero sweet16 appearances...so odds are his "system" will never translate into a sweet 16 appearance at Iowa.


Why we pay a guy $2.9 million for results that are average and then make him out to be some type of high level coach is the question.

More Hawk Illogical. It’s like you just make things up, then post them to see what sticks.

A third place finish is exactly that. After 18 games (or 20) of an unbalanced schedule, their record tied for third place. That clearly makes them 5th or 6th.

Last year’s 3rd place team lost its first game of the BTT? Hawk Illogical at its finest there. I would have swore that Iowa beat Wisconsin in its first game last year after receiving a double bye. You’re probably right. Iowa opened the BTT on Saturday in the semi finals vs ILL 🙄.

Fran has a 37 year career…… Did you just make that number up? Fran has been a head coach for 25 full seasons and a coach in some capacity for 39 full seasons.

Speaking of 2.9 million, that ranks Fran near the 9th highest paid coach in the B1G coming into the 2021-22 season. Fran is the third longest tenured coach and finished in the top half of the league eight of the last nine seasons. Actually, Fran is producing above average results for less than average money.
 

CarterHall

HR MVP
Nov 4, 2001
2,087
2,086
113
No, you’re remembering it correctly. 88-89 had BJ, Bullard, Horton, Jepsen, and Marble. All NBA players and upper classmen. They finished 4th in the B1G, within two games of .500 in conference, and didn’t make it past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. Iowa Basketball.
And Ray Thompson. And they gave up from a 102 to 119 points on defense six times that season.
 
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kceasthawk

HR Legend
Nov 5, 2016
10,984
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More Hawk Illogical. It’s like you just make things up, then post them to see what sticks.

A third place finish is exactly that. After 18 games (or 20) of an unbalanced schedule, their record tied for third place. That clearly makes them 5th or 6th.

Last year’s 3rd place team lost its first game of the BTT? Hawk Illogical at its finest there. I would have swore that Iowa beat Wisconsin in its first game last year after receiving a double bye. You’re probably right. Iowa opened the BTT on Saturday in the semi finals vs ILL 🙄.

Fran has a 37 year career…… Did you just make that number up? Fran has been a head coach for 25 full seasons and a coach in some capacity for 39 full seasons.

Speaking of 2.9 million, that ranks Fran near the 9th highest paid coach in the B1G coming into the 2021-22 season. Fran is the third longest tenured coach and finished in the top half of the league eight of the last nine seasons. Actually, Fran is producing above average results for less than average money.
Careful. More context often leads to you being labeled part of the' Superfans of the sunshine club", whatever in the hell that is......
 

Kabby

HR All-American
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2002
3,026
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Actually I don't mind Fran. We got caught a little short with Weezy, Nunge, and Frederick leaving. Garza was the only one out of eligibility. I would think we'd be ok with Weezy and Nunge in the lineup. I love his style of play. Agree with defense and rebounding. I much rather have an up temp team that a stud defensive team that can't score.
some of this is true. It makes it all the more stupid he didn't go all in on trying to upgrade in the portal. Oh wait we had all wee needed already here. Nice try Fran.
 

sm_hawkeye

Team MVP
Jan 26, 2011
260
228
43
He seems great at developing players between seasons and preparing the team for their style/scheme. No one saw Keegan as a nba prospect to this caliber and look where he is now. So Fran does deserve some praise.

But his anti adapting methods, stubborn to ride the same lineups no matter the mismatch’s, he seemingly stands idle by “trusting” his team to do what he outlined in practice instead of taking a timeout to remind them to follow the game plan or adjust it. He doesn’t appear to be much of a locker room speech guy. When the pressure is higher he leaves it to his players to mentally get in the right place. He seems he would rather lose than see a player foul out.

There’s a lot of good and a lot of bad. The problem it’s finding the next great coach is no easy task. Fran likely will gain more momentum with Murray and Garza getting recognition. Many great schools go out and get a “slam dunk” like Texas and smart and it doesn’t always work out.

Old dogs can learn new tricks, and I hope Fran can bring in some assistants to fill where he has weaknesses. I think this is more likely to be a success then leaving it to Barta to bring in someone new.. I thought Iowa state was well on there way to cement they found their guy, but did they? They haven’t looked great in conference play.
 
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Fighter of the Nightman

All-Conference
Jul 8, 2019
391
527
93
Considering Iowa is a bottom 3 job in the conference, middle of the pack finishes is overachieving.
Not sure if a joke or not, but Iowa is a middle tier job, which means a great recruiter can get great talent and a mediocre one will get mediocre talent. There is no Northwestern-style talent barriers, and a coach who can recruit regionally and nationally can easily win at Iowa. Baylor had literally no history before Drew, and they’re like seventh fiddle in their own state.
 

HawkLogic

HR Legend
Feb 20, 2011
13,473
9,312
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My point is that it's a useless bit of information,.. If you're interested in watching a program that has a coach that regularly makes the sweet sixteen go elsewhere,... because that isn't here.
It isn't useless, it is highly relevant if you are I0wa fan and want to get to sweet16 or beyond...Fran has never made a sweet16 because he doesn't have a system that can win in NCAA. 37 years is a long time to never get it done.

Fran's system is going too deep in his lineup, playing his favorites and kin to maximize offense and not giving a chit about defense doesn't lend to NCAA success.

UNI got to a sweet16 in 2010...If you play defense, you have chance to beat a giant and don't always have to used excuse it was a bad matchup...when you play Fran ball, you are blown out in 1st 5 minutes of round of 32 by Gonzaga, or Villanova, or Oregon..
 
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I remember on a podcast a few years back a player admitting that they never practiced defense when he was there. The story became that after that they started practicing defense. I wonder how much time they do devote to D, because this team consistently looks lost on D.
D?

Deez nutz!
 

intrepodor

All-Conference
Nov 2, 2010
382
363
63
I want to support the team. They have earned my attention, my respect and my dollars. I don't support the Hawkeyes because they win everything in sight. I support them because they are my team. I pulled for Kenyon Murray and I pull for his kids. They are Hawkeyes.
I support the players who are Hawks. Coach not so much.
 
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Rustys Dad

HR Heisman
Jun 19, 2015
7,044
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Des Moines
There is nothing awful about it, but Iowa under Fran more often than not will be that 6th to 9th place conference team. They’ll make the tournament half the time and be out that first weekend. They won’t compete with the top of the conference typically. They’ll usually always have a winning record. They’ll be within a game or two of .500 in the conference more often than not. I mean it is what it is. This is the product under Fran.
When Fran couldn’t excel with 2x POY Garza and Weezy… that was my last hoorah supporting Fran as our coach. I am baffled the number of fans who still support Fran and his body of work. He has won exactly .500 of his Big 10 conference games and overall has won .580 of his games. We WILL NOT exceed anything Fran previously accomplished. THIS is Fran and sadly… this is Iowa BB.
 

jonesy5960

HR All-American
Sep 6, 2012
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I know a high profile large school head coach here in the state of Iowa. He says that Iowa spends the least amount of time emphasizing defense than any other (college) program in the state...and its not even close.
So much intrigue. Is this Wheel of Fortune? Are we talking a high profile large high school head coach or high profile large college head coach? Why not just say who the coach is??
 

HawkLogic

HR Legend
Feb 20, 2011
13,473
9,312
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I don't get this.

It sounds like you are saying there are 2 kinds of Iowa fans -

A. Angry, red-faced, fist-clenched fans that have been fed up with Fran for years and want him fired TODAY!

Or

B. Fans that are "fine with it".

I don't think I've read a post here from anyone that is "fine" with the Hawks this year or the Iowa Basketball program in general. Everyone would like it to be better, but it's not up to us.

I would assume the fan's that regularly defend Fran, his lineups, and his record and keep up this myth about him saving Iowa B-ball after lickliter, are content.
 

Crazy Hawk

HR Legend
Jan 10, 2003
28,842
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So much intrigue. Is this Wheel of Fortune? Are we talking a high profile large high school head coach or high profile large college head coach? Why not just say who the coach is??
Because I love keeping you in suspense.
 

Franisdaman

HR King
Nov 3, 2012
54,430
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Heaven, Iowa
There is nothing awful about it, but Iowa under Fran more often than not will be that 6th to 9th place conference team. They’ll make the tournament half the time and be out that first weekend. They won’t compete with the top of the conference typically. They’ll usually always have a winning record. They’ll be within a game or two of .500 in the conference more often than not. I mean it is what it is. This is the product under Fran.

You could make the argument that this is Iowa Basketball for the last 40 years.

You could also point out that Iowa has finished 6th-9th exactly once in the past eight seasons (6th 2018-19). Seven seasons better than 6th place. One season worse than 9th.

‘They’ll make the tournament half the time’ or six of the last eight seasons, whichever is greater.



Wait, so you are saying that Hawkeye Genius's OP is full of inaccuracies and that 16 posters blindly liked his post containing all of those inaccuracies?

I thought posters on here, especially the geniuses, were accurate and were experts on what they were talking about.

I guess not.
 
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iahawks10

HR Legend
Nov 3, 2001
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Wait, so you are saying that Hawkeye Genius's OP is full of inaccuracies and that 16 posters blindly liked his post containing all of those inaccuracies?

I thought posters on here, especially the geniuses, were accurate and were experts on what they were talking about.

I guess not.

Yeah it’s pretty bad the misinformation that gets posted here and blindly believed.

This is from another “logical” poster:
Even last year's clear 3rd place team in regular season got bounced out in 1st game in BTT. The 11 year Fran trend is he won't win you a BTT championship, ever.”


How does anyone take his post with any ounce of seriousness?
 
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HawkeyeGenius

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Wait, so you are saying that Hawkeye Genius's OP is full of inaccuracies and that 16 posters blindly liked his post containing all of those inaccuracies?

I thought posters on here, especially the geniuses, were accurate and were experts on what they were talking about.

I guess not.
Well @Franisdaman my info was closer to right than wrong when you examine the findings. Fact is, time for Fran to go.
 

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